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View Full Version : Do you believe that competition is finally forcing Microsoft to listen to us?



Grant A.
April 13th, 2009, 11:12 PM
Please do not make this into a Microsoft/Windows bashing topic, and please refrain from using names other than the proper names of the companies or operating systems.


Anyways, do you guys believe that the stiff competition from Linux and Mac OS X is forcing Microsoft to finally listen to the customer and bend over backwards for them?

After seeing Windows 7's screenshots and reading reviews, and I can definitely say that Microsoft is finally opening an ear to their customers.

Capitalism at its finest. \\:D/

SunnyRabbiera
April 13th, 2009, 11:17 PM
Its not time yet to fully judge win7 as its beta, if experience has taught us anything is that the beta means nothing...
A OS can have a great beta, but have a crappy final release, heck its happened to Ubuntu.
I just try to remind people who are praising how great win7 is to remember what happened to Longhorn.
Longhorn was shipping up to be a great OS from Microsoft, but Longhorn later became Vista...

swoll1980
April 13th, 2009, 11:19 PM
I think it will at least force them to try to produce a better product. EA sports bought the exclusive rights to NFL games since then it's gone to crap. It's a roster update rather than a better version come release time.

Mokoma
April 13th, 2009, 11:23 PM
I think it will at least force them to try to produce a better product. EA sports bought the exclusive rights to NFL games since then it's gone to crap. It's a roster update rather than a better version come release time.

EA Sports had pretty much always been crap.......

D@RKKIN6
April 13th, 2009, 11:25 PM
I think it will at least force them to try to produce a better product.

+1...

Yes after the Vista failure of Windows, they have to make something much beter to pull back there customers!

bashveank
April 13th, 2009, 11:28 PM
I don't think it's the competition that's forced them to do anything, but the criticisms of their own users...

speedwell68
April 13th, 2009, 11:34 PM
I don't think it's the competition that's forced them to do anything, but the criticisms of their own users...

^^^QFT. For example every PC my employer buys is downgraded to XP from Vista. They aren't replacing Vista for Linux or buying Apple machines, they are just opting for another Microsoft product.

swoll1980
April 13th, 2009, 11:47 PM
EA Sports had pretty much always been crap.......

They were at least trying before. Introducing new features, and such. Now they just update the roster, and ship it out.

swoll1980
April 13th, 2009, 11:48 PM
I don't think it's the competition that's forced them to do anything, but the criticisms of their own users...

If there were no alternative they wouldn't care what people had to say. Why would they?

KiwiNZ
April 13th, 2009, 11:51 PM
I do not agree with the comment "stiff competition" . There is a element of competition.

Microsoft have always listened to its customers, it has not always responded with what the customers wished for. In many cases the wish list was either very hard to achieve or very expensive to achieve.

The bottom line is still the guiding influence for the stock holders.

Paqman
April 14th, 2009, 12:02 AM
I do not agree with the comment "stiff competition" . There is a element of competition.


Not even a particularly big one, either. Their position is pretty secure.

bashveank
April 14th, 2009, 12:11 AM
If there were no alternative they wouldn't care what people had to say. Why would they?

Microsoft makes $25 in profit on a Windows XP sale, $100 in profit on a Vista sale*. They have a vested interest in ensuring that people are buying the latest version of Windows. Windows XP vastly outsells any of the competition, and that's what makes customer comment's extremely valuable.

*Numbers are from an article on Newsweek, I can't find the article now, unfortunately.

I-75
April 14th, 2009, 12:28 AM
The "competition" is free software like Open Office. It is also Apple (even though MSFT is said to have shares in that company).

But the real "competition" to Microsoft is open source mandates by governments and government entities like a school board or in the case of France..it is the Police. No amount of deals and price breaks will change a mandate. It is kind of a done deal and it a steadily growing trend through out the globe. That is what MSFT is concerned about.


The Economy factor

Furthermore, companies cutting back looking to save money are using free software that runs on Windows like Open Office. Other companies are moving to Linux based servers to save money on client access fees while keeping Windows on the desktops. Some other companies have made complete transitions over to Linux.

mkendall
April 14th, 2009, 10:18 AM
Microsoft have always listened to its customers, it has not always responded with what the customers wished for. In many cases the wish list was either very hard to achieve or very expensive to achieve.

But they do listen to the RIAA and Hollywood.

Dragonbite
April 14th, 2009, 03:09 PM
Please do not make this into a Microsoft/Windows bashing topic, and please refrain from using names other than the proper names of the companies or operating systems.


Anyways, do you guys believe that the stiff competition from Linux and Mac OS X is forcing Microsoft to finally listen to the customer and bend over backwards for them?

After seeing Windows 7's screenshots and reading reviews, and I can definitely say that Microsoft is finally opening an ear to their customers.

Capitalism at its finest. \\:D/

Yes, competition will make Microsoft put out better software and to listen to their customers more and more.

No, because individuals running Windows are not the customers they are going to listen to.

We will reap benefits from competition with Microsoft, but not as directly as other customer segments like enterprise, servers and developers.

will1911a1
April 14th, 2009, 03:14 PM
I don't know if it's competition so much as it's been the negative press that Vista has generated.

SomeGuyDude
April 14th, 2009, 03:18 PM
I think it will at least force them to try to produce a better product. EA sports bought the exclusive rights to NFL games since then it's gone to crap. It's a roster update rather than a better version come release time.

^^ This.

It's not a matter of "listening to us", it's a matter of watching what attracts consumers and incorporating it into the product. The vast majority of Linux users, at least the vocal ones, are likely never going to use Windows just on general principle so MS has no incentive to "listen" to what they have to say.

However, paying attention to what features Windows lacks that others have that's causing an exodus away from their product will cause them to watch trends.

Methuselah
April 14th, 2009, 03:27 PM
The market rejected Vista and stuck with Xp; microsoft had no choice but to create something more right for the times.
It took some major cluelessness for their first major OS update in almost a decade to suck as much as Vista did.
I think this has done some damage to the Windows brand and 7 will have a negative perception to overcome in some circles.
Espectially since it looks quite a bit like it's big brother, Vista, in its current incarnation.

I think producing an awful, awful product hurt MS more than the existence of any alternative.
However, the alternatives were able to be opportunistic in this situation.
As entrenched as Microsoft is, it will be very difficult for its competitors to get the upper hand without some help from MS.
But they'll get the help.

D@RKKIN6
April 14th, 2009, 08:20 PM
Vista was a big and new investment of MS after XP, with the XP succes they though they would get the same result on Vista, but they didn't take care of the memory lack and bugs on it, they sold it for about 200-500€ for one copy. And the users reported most of the bugs, but because it was too much, MS decided to make a fresh new one, the same look like Vista, but more secure. I have a friend who runs Win7 on his Virtual Machine, the same look and less bugs, and it recomends 1GB ram, which was 2GB in Vista, But You don't see the changes if you don't look at the details, so I don't think that Win7 is going to be popular as much as Vista. Mac has gained more popularity because of Vista and Linux also. But Windows is going to try with Win7 to take back the OS world!

wolfen69
April 14th, 2009, 08:46 PM
They were at least trying before. Introducing new features, and such. Now they just update the roster, and ship it out.

it's a football game for god's sake. what else would you have them add to it?

lethalfang
April 14th, 2009, 09:06 PM
Not even a particularly big one, either. Their position is pretty secure.

10 years ago, I'd say the same thing about AOL.

MikeTheC
April 14th, 2009, 09:11 PM
I think Microsoft is responding to competition from both Apple and the F/OSS movement. However, I think the more visible elements of that response are in direct relation to Apple alone. The rest of it are underpinnings changes which are in response to F/OSS methodology. I suppose that's a good thing for Microsoft's customers; nevertheless, the best thing in any market space is competition.

Apple and F/OSS need to keep up the pressure and realize the time to give up is after everyone associated with each camp is already deceased. Until then, you keep going.

chucky chuckaluck
April 14th, 2009, 09:11 PM
the fail to 'wow' with vista and the complaints may be causing microsoft to make some adjustments. apple's more of an annoyance in the gadget market and i still think most normal people have never even heard of linux (eliminating it as 'stiff competition').

bakedbeans4life
April 14th, 2009, 11:06 PM
Microsoft listen to the OS community? Only when it effects their bottom line.

Listening and producing a better product (Windows Vista v Windows 7) on this rare occasion may go hand in glove.

Linux (regardless of distro) is a threat. This along with the upsurge in interest in Apple constitutes a real "shake-your-foundations" re-appraisal of the entire IT market place.

I am just waiting for the comment that contradicts mine, the one that says Microsoft always has it's customers at heart. All other priorities rescinded.

t0p
April 14th, 2009, 11:30 PM
Please do not make this into a Microsoft/Windows bashing topic, and please refrain from using names other than the proper names of the companies or operating systems.


Mico$haft does not care about its users' opinions. All competition does to Micro$old is give it new targets for embracing, extending, extinguishing.

******* 7 may "look" good to some folk, but that's all it does... it "looks" good.

The software world has been afire with a Free/open source buzz for a long time. That didn't stop Mickey$ux releasing Fista. I can't see how 7 will be any better.

Npl
April 14th, 2009, 11:35 PM
The only competition Vista has is XP. Whatever immense value Linux has compared to its cost (divide through zero?) its still lightyears away from having anything close in user-friendlyness.. or even a fast and responsive UI, it just lags way to often, audio sometimes skips if you resize windows.. and thats on a 2,5GHz Dualcore. I can watch the menus beeing drawn on a 850Mhz CPU, while XP runs buttersmooth, heck even if I dont install a GFX-Driver on Windows its still way faster.

Its a "good-enough" OS if you dont have anything else I guess.

Hmm... lets just apply the same business logic MS seems to be found guilty to FOSS:
The FOSS community listening? Only when it pays off or they are completely bored. Why would they make something userfriendly if they depend on selling services.. no reason to waste efforts trying to be better than someone else, that someone else could just rip it off (rather hope someone else does the work).. Nah, make it work somewhat most of the time, thats "good enough" and we can fill another feature-checkbox.

Both theories might be bogus, but looking at the results I`d say MS cares a bit more for endusers... for whatever reasons that might be

bakedbeans4life
April 14th, 2009, 11:53 PM
The only competition Vista has is XP. Whatever immense value Linux has compared to its cost (divide through zero?) its still lightyears away from having anything close in user-friendlyness.. or even a fast and responsive UI, it just lags way to often, audio sometimes skips if you resize windows.. and thats on a 2,5GHz Dualcore. I can watch the menus beeing drawn on a 850Mhz CPU, while XP runs buttersmooth, heck even if I dont install a GFX-Driver on Windows its still way faster.

Its a "good-enough" OS if you dont have anything else I guess.

Hmm... lets just apply the same business logic MS seems to be found guilty to FOSS:
The FOSS community listening? Only when it pays off or they are completely bored. Why would they make something userfriendly if they depend on selling services.. no reason to waste efforts trying to be better than someone else, that someone else could just rip it off (rather hope someone else does the work).. Nah, make it work somewhat most of the time, thats "good enough" and we can fill another feature-checkbox.

Both theories might be bogus, but looking at the results I`d say MS cares a bit more for endusers... for whatever reasons that might be

So you are a Microsoft person? Not meant as an insult, more an observation. You disagree with Open Source at every level. If Open Source prevails, this is of no of benefit to you. Am I missing something?

Npl
April 15th, 2009, 12:27 AM
So you are a Microsoft person? Not meant as an insult, more an observation. You disagree with Open Source at every level. If Open Source prevails, this is of no of benefit to you. Am I missing something?In not against OS, released stuff under GPL (without knowing better.. shouldve taken MIT). I cant stand the hyperbole of the FOSS Community however, everything Linux does is the right way, FOSS is always better... blahblah. If you look at the FOSS Devs, then there are two kinds - companies and hobbiests, and I dont see how either group has more "motivation" to improve their stuff compared to closed-source counterparts.
As company you wont spend tons of money to be better than other FOSS company... you dont get an advantage if a few months later everyone else ductaped your stuff to their own products.
As hobbiest you feel less connected to your project.. just imagine you work hard on Pigdin and your focus makes it one of the best apps in that area.. than some whiny bitches branch it with some easy fluff on top and discredit your work (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=763194&highlight=funpidgin)

And somehow FOSS ppl always equate closed source with Microsoft. Do you know Foobar2000? Its free, closed source and IMHO is better than any OS Player. It just works, everything... eg. no FOSS Player I tried so far understand flac`s single file CD-Archives.

I wouldnt mind having a good FOSS alternative to Windows, but for that lots of old cruft and overengineering (looking at the X-Server ) would need to replaced.

0per4t0r
April 15th, 2009, 12:31 AM
Anyways, do you guys believe that the stiff competition from Linux and Mac OS X is forcing Microsoft to finally listen to the customer and bend over backwards for them?

After seeing Windows 7's screenshots and reading reviews, and I can definitely say that Microsoft is finally opening an ear to their customers.

Capitalism at its finest. \\:D/

Finally, they listen to the public.
I used to think they enjoyed burning user requests.

SomeGuyDude
April 15th, 2009, 01:06 AM
Mico$haft does not care about its users' opinions. All competition does to Micro$old is give it new targets for embracing, extending, extinguishing.

******* 7 may "look" good to some folk, but that's all it does... it "looks" good.

The software world has been afire with a Free/open source buzz for a long time. That didn't stop Mickey$ux releasing Fista. I can't see how 7 will be any better.

...I hope this is satire, because otherwise you are the exact kind of Linux user I would love to have banished from this site.

0per4t0r
April 15th, 2009, 01:31 AM
...I hope this is satire, because otherwise you are the exact kind of Linux user I would love to have banished from this site.
Yeah, a lot of people hate MS and windows (including me) but people who bash it like that in public shouldn't be a part of this community. This is just for discussing things in a nice manner, so don't flame MS, just make little jokes at them once in a while. :P

t0p
April 17th, 2009, 07:55 AM
...I hope this is satire, because otherwise you are the exact kind of Linux user I would love to have banished from this site.

...I hope this is satire, because otherwise you are the exact kind of Linux user I would love to have banished from this site.