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SpenceMakesSense
April 13th, 2009, 10:05 PM
Saying that I had illegally downloaded various files. Is it legal in the states for them to look at the files on my computer? If not I would go ahead and keep them on just not download things anymore. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask the question. If so the mods can go ahead delete this thread. Just please dont delete my profile:(

Mokoma
April 13th, 2009, 10:08 PM
ahahahaha your screwed dude. the states isnt really the land of the free anymore is it :/

mikewhatever
April 13th, 2009, 10:09 PM
I really doubt they had to look at the files on your computer. Remember that everything you download comes through the ISP.

LowSky
April 13th, 2009, 10:10 PM
They are not looking at your files, they are being being told by the company you stole from that you are illegally sharing our downloaded a file. As most likely you got the file via P2P (which allows others to search your system for files), or by traffic that captured your address. They know exactly everywhere you've been Anytime you issue the command to go to a website, guess who is actually bringing you that information, you're ISP.

smartboyathome
April 13th, 2009, 10:11 PM
Saying that I had illegally downloaded various files. Is it legal in the states for them to look at the files on my computer? If not I would go ahead and keep them on just not download things anymore. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask the question. If so the mods can go ahead delete this thread. Just please dont delete my profile:(

Well, you could take them to court on account of invasion of privacy, but if you did download stuff illegally, you should drop it. Your case will go nowhere, and plus you should not be downloading stuff illegally in the USA anyway. It is like someone who does drugs, they run the risk of being caught doing the drugs.

Mokoma
April 13th, 2009, 10:13 PM
Well, you could take them to court on account of invasion of privacy, but if you did download stuff illegally, you should drop it. Your case will go nowhere, and plus you should not be downloading stuff illegally in the USA anyway. It is like someone who does drugs, they run the risk of being caught doing the drugs.

comparing someone who illegally downloads file to a drug user is wrong :/

LowSky
April 13th, 2009, 10:14 PM
ahahahaha your screwed dude. the states isnt really the land of the free anymore is it :/

Land of the Free, is such a broad statement, free what exactly?

Free Beer, no.
Free speech, sorta! (we cant scream fire or bomb without purpose)
Freedom of religion, mostly (Mormons lost their ability to have multiple wives)
Freedom of Choice, yes!

happysmileman
April 13th, 2009, 10:16 PM
If they bring it to court then they might be able to look at what's on your computer, otherwise no, but I'm not a lawyer, not even American.

Did the ISP imply that legal action would be taken, or was it just a warning to stop? A lot of the time for first offenders they just give a warning to stop (Unless you're one of the unlucky few they choose to make an example of).

Mokoma
April 13th, 2009, 10:16 PM
yeah with an over pushy spying goverment, its getting the same in the uk too, i wanna leave >.>

swoll1980
April 13th, 2009, 10:17 PM
comparing someone who illegally downloads file to a drug user is wrong :/


Yeah drug users only hurt themselves; Illegal downloads hurt everyone.

VetterZor
April 13th, 2009, 10:17 PM
Its not illegal to download anything in America, its illegal to "SHARE" files. Gotta read the fine print. If you are "SHARING" files on the internet you are wrong. Clean out your shared folders and buy the dang DVD its only $10 bucks for the love of Linux.

Mokoma
April 13th, 2009, 10:17 PM
Yeah drug users only hurt themselves; Illegal downloads hurt everyone.

true :P

ninjapirate89
April 13th, 2009, 10:18 PM
Did your ISP say that someone is going to pursue legal action against you or are they just warning you that what you are doing is illegal?

swoll1980
April 13th, 2009, 10:23 PM
Saying that I had illegally downloaded various files. Is it legal in the states for them to look at the files on my computer? If not I would go ahead and keep them on just not download things anymore. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask the question. If so the mods can go ahead delete this thread. Just please dont delete my profile:(

If I were you I would evoke my 5th amendment right, and shut up about it, and relieve myself of any thing incriminating.

LowSky
April 13th, 2009, 10:25 PM
If I were you I would evoke my 5th amendment right, and shut up about it.

:lolflag:

Yea awesome Idea post on a website about your supposed illegal activities. Most likely on you home internet connection that is possibly being investigated.

):P

hyperdude111
April 13th, 2009, 10:25 PM
They are not looking at the files on your computer but at the files you receive through your router. If it was a torrent your ip address is broadcast to all other peers for that torrent, copyright owners often monitor some torrent sites. If you want to stay anonymous for your Internet activities you can easily do so, for normal web browsing you can try "tor" and for torrents search google. A downside of proxies is it slows down your connection...........

lisati
April 13th, 2009, 10:25 PM
<aside>
I once had an email from my ISP saying something about sending out "unwanted" emails. This was a bit baffling since I generally only send emails to people I know or I've had previous contact with, the AV on the windows portion of my setup was up to date, and Linux is unlikely to get infected, etcetera..... The mystery was solved when I pressed the ISP for details: I'd accidentally reported myself as a spammer after sending an email to myself to check that I'd set up email clients on different machines correctly.
</aside>

PurposeOfReason
April 13th, 2009, 10:55 PM
Random rule of the internet for the day:

If you get caught doing something you shouldn't, don't ask about it or compliain. You shouldn't have been doing it (and if you're getting caught, you're horrible at the whole illegal game).

Firestem4
April 13th, 2009, 10:59 PM
Did your ISP say that someone is going to pursue legal action against you or are they just warning you that what you are doing is illegal?

I was going to ask the same thing. what did they say? Most ISP's will issue "friendly" warnings that your actions have been discovered and for you to cease and desist. If that is the case. If I were you I would do so immediately.

While I do not condone illegal torrenting. You can encrypt your traffic. Your ISP can only tell you are using P2P but not what you are downloading. (Encryption traffic is not guilt by association either. And there is nothing wrong with doing it even if you aren't doing any illegal file sharing).

The problem with the laws is most people don't realize that Downloading is not illegal. Sharing is. (Yet... I can't get in trouble for sharing my physical music cd with my friend...Not yet anyways)..*sigh for the hypocrisy*

collinp
April 13th, 2009, 11:01 PM
No, your ISP didn't look on your computer at your files. They looked at data sent through them to you. Like many others have asked, did they state that the company in question was going to take legal action or not?

(Also, sharing in itself is not illegal, sharing copyrighted material is.)

sloggerkhan
April 13th, 2009, 11:06 PM
Most likely your ISP got a notification from a 3rd party copyright owner that they'd sniffed you out Dl'ing a file.

I don't know how you share, but if you want to be safe, use encrypted connections, a blocklist, and vpn/proxy service. I'd also avoid limewire type services, though I hear they're not as bad as they once were.

phaed
April 13th, 2009, 11:15 PM
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2007/10/p2p-researchers-use-a-blocklist-or-you-will-be-tracked-100-of-the-time.ars

Use a blocklist or you will be tracked 100% of the time.

speedwell68
April 13th, 2009, 11:25 PM
Yeah drug users only hurt themselves; Illegal downloads hurt everyone.

Illegal drug use hurts millions on a daily basis as do illegal downloads. Neither are big or clever.

Mokoma
April 13th, 2009, 11:28 PM
there are occasions where the illegal version is the only way....

So Tough
April 13th, 2009, 11:30 PM
true :P

Wrong anwser :lolflag: drug users can hurt lots of people around them and no more so than family members/friends....

speedwell68
April 13th, 2009, 11:30 PM
there are occasions where the illegal version is the only way....

Such as?

Mokoma
April 13th, 2009, 11:32 PM
Such as?

such as ea forcing securom on my pc when i installed spore, which in turn diabled my dvd-drive. thats a pretty good case of pissing me off to the extreme of going and getting the cracked version

SpenceMakesSense
April 13th, 2009, 11:34 PM
Ok so let me go into further discussion then. It was a friendly warning saying if I did it again they would cut off my internet. I was just wondering If I could keep any of it because I heard of some law clinton made that they can't directly view my files. Only what im doing with their internet. I understand that they can see whatever im doing internet related.

sekinto
April 13th, 2009, 11:35 PM
As most likely you got the file via P2P (which allows others to search your system for files)

This is very untrue. It is true that some P2P networks like Gnutella are set up so users can share any files they want on their system (but are not forced to share any files), but P2P just implies that the hosts and clients are the same people, not that the files on your system are exposed to everyone.

swoll1980
April 13th, 2009, 11:36 PM
Wrong anwser :lolflag: drug users can hurt lots of people around them and no more so than family members/friends....

You can't be responsible for other peoples fellings. If the things you do to yourself hurts them, then it is their problem not yours. This would be like saying your choice of job, or mate hurts them, if they don't agree(which happens all the time). They have to live their lives, and not get to involved in anyone elses, and if they choose to, then it is they that are hurting themselves, and not you.

Kingsley
April 13th, 2009, 11:36 PM
Such as?
Such as when I'm not willing to drop $10 on a movie that I'll only watch once or twice. :)

To the OP: What type of file sharing were you engaged in? Limewire? Bittorent?

swoll1980
April 13th, 2009, 11:38 PM
<aside>
I once had an email from my ISP saying something about sending out "unwanted" emails. This was a bit baffling since I generally only send emails to people I know or I've had previous contact with, the AV on the windows portion of my setup was up to date, and Linux is unlikely to get infected, etcetera..... The mystery was solved when I pressed the ISP for details: I'd accidentally reported myself as a spammer after sending an email to myself to check that I'd set up email clients on different machines correctly.
</aside>

Wow! that really made me laugh for real.

swoll1980
April 13th, 2009, 11:39 PM
Such as when I'm not willing to drop $10 on a movie that I'll only watch once or twice. :)

To the OP: What type of file sharing were you engaged in? Limewire? Bittorent?

that's what netflix is for

Firestem4
April 13th, 2009, 11:39 PM
Ok so let me go into further discussion then. It was a friendly warning saying if I did it again they would cut off my internet. I was just wondering If I could keep any of it because I heard of some law clinton made that they can't directly view my files. Only what im doing with their internet. I understand that they can see whatever im doing internet related.

without sparking any fires about the law and etc, or people on here. what you do with the files is up to you from this point forward. You can't get in trouble either way(Well..not necessarily, but I digress). And they won't know if you delete them or not.

Seeing everything of what you do is not totally true. While everything you do goes from your House, to the ISP, to the world. You can encrypt your traffic. They can see where the traffic goes (unless you use TOR or proxy). But not what the content is. And they can not break into the traffic either. Not only would that be illegal. its very damn hard to do because of a beautiful thing called NAT.

Mokoma
April 13th, 2009, 11:41 PM
without sparking any fires about the law and etc, or people on here. what you do with the files is up to you from this point forward. You can't get in trouble either way(Well..not necessarily, but I digress). And they won't know if you delete them or not.

Seeing everything of what you do is not totally true. While everything you do goes from your House, to the ISP, to the world. You can encrypt your traffic. They can see where the traffic goes (unless you use TOR or proxy). But not what the content is. And they can not break into the traffic either. Not only would that be illegal. its very damn hard to do because of a beautiful thing called NAT.

dude. deep packet inspection means they can see ANYTHING you!

SpenceMakesSense
April 13th, 2009, 11:41 PM
I was using bit torrent and honestly I think my mom was using limewire without my family knowing(damn her :D)

speedwell68
April 13th, 2009, 11:43 PM
You can't be responsible for other peoples fellings. If the things you do to yourself hurts them, then it is their problem not yours. This would be like saying your choice of job, or mate hurts them, if they don't agree(which happens all the time). They have to live their lives, and not get to involved in anyone elses, and if they choose to, then it is they that are hurting themselves, and not you.

You must live in a very small world. I hope it never happens to you.


Such as when I'm not willing to drop $10 on a movie that I'll only watch once or twice. :)

To the OP: What type of file sharing were you engaged in? Limewire? Bittorent?

It is that kind of attitude that is driving a lot of businesses to the wall.

zipperback
June 16th, 2009, 08:14 PM
Saying that I had illegally downloaded various files. Is it legal in the states for them to look at the files on my computer? If not I would go ahead and keep them on just not download things anymore. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask the question. If so the mods can go ahead delete this thread. Just please dont delete my profile:(


Your ISP probably did not remotely access your computer, they did probably noticed your activity in their logs and by whatever criteria they use, determined that you were illegally downloading and contacted you about it.

And it may have been a situation where they were contacted by the RIAA or some other similar organization in regard to your activity.

Regardless of how you may feel about copyright laws, if you download illegally from the Internet then the fact is that you are breaking the law, and now there may be legal ramifications to your actions.

My opinion is that you should get yourself an attorney at once and stop downloading whatever it is that you may or may not have been downloading.

A public forum such as this one however isn't the place for you to seek legal help.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

zipperback
June 16th, 2009, 08:24 PM
You can't get in trouble either way(Well..not necessarily, but I digress). And they won't know if you delete them or not.



Incorrect.

Piracy IS in fact illegal and should not be tolerated nor should any such discussions even be taking place on a public forum such as this one which intended for the Ubuntu community to be discussing matters related to Ubuntu Linux and such.

1) Piracy is ILLEGAL.

2) You CAN go to prison for it.

3) This forum is NOT the place for discussions related to piracy or the encouragement of piracy.

If you're worried about something related to your online activities then you should contact an attorney at once and stop any public discussions about your pending legal issues at once.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

XubuRoxMySox
June 16th, 2009, 08:27 PM
Maybe you just got "FAPped." My isp has a Fair Access Policy that limits our bandwidth. But we have a major gamer in the family who can't stay away from Final Fantasy XII, lol. So Daddy banished the game to an unlimited dialup account to keep us from getting FAPped. Then I went and closed the gap this month downloading a couple of ISOs for distro-hopping, LOL!

It's easy to reach the limit on satellite internet...

-Robin

nw2001
June 16th, 2009, 08:30 PM
Incorrect.

Piracy IS in fact illegal and should not be tolerated nor should any such discussions even be taking place on a public forum such as this one which intended for the Ubuntu community to be discussing matters related to Ubuntu Linux and such.

1) Piracy is ILLEGAL.

2) You CAN go to prison for it.

3) This forum is NOT the place for discussions related to piracy or the encouragement of piracy.

If you're worried about something related to your online activities then you should contact an attorney at once and stop any public discussions about your pending legal issues at once.

- zipperback
:popcorn:
out of curiosity where did you hear this you can go to prison stuff? I cant say I have EVER heard of someone being threatened with prison due to piracy, and as far as I know, It'd be a civil suit resulting in large fines, not jail time, why would an ISP or any other company want you in jail when they have a chance of making money off of you?

Eisenwinter
June 16th, 2009, 08:34 PM
Freedom of Choice, yes!
Not completely.

Freedom of choice is the freedom of everything.

Just like I can choose to kill a person. I do not have that freedom. Therefore freedom of choice in the United States of America is limited.

(I'm not going to kill anyone, this is the last thing I'll ever do, I was just giving an example)

I can choose to take this item from that store, but then I'll get arrested for it. Boom, "freedom of choice" smacked again.


In the United States you have one fundamental freedom: the freedom to be a hypocrite.

zipperback
June 16th, 2009, 08:44 PM
out of curiosity where did you hear this you can go to prison stuff? I cant say I have EVER heard of someone being threatened with prison due to piracy, and as far as I know, It'd be a civil suit resulting in large fines, not jail time, why would an ISP or any other company want you in jail when they have a chance of making money off of you?

Oh REALLY?

How about 15 months and almost half a million dollars in fines to start with?
http://news.softpedia.com/news/15-Months-in-Prison-and-415-900-Damages-for-Video-Games-Piracy-92063.shtml

http://gaygamer.net/2008/08/esa_pleased_with_piracy_prison.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9751921-7.html
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Piracy-Puts-People-in-Prison-92460

A simple search with google with give you plenty of real world instances where people were given prison sentences for software piracy.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=software+piracy+prison&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&fp=5HbSQtJhN8k

And here is a link in regard to the penalties.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=software+piracy+penalties&aq=2&oq=software+piracy&aqi=g10&fp=5HbSQtJhN8k

Piracy IS illegal. And YOU CAN go to prison because of it.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

nw2001
June 16th, 2009, 08:52 PM
Oh REALLY?

How about 15 months and almost half a million dollars in fines to start with?
http://news.softpedia.com/news/15-Months-in-Prison-and-415-900-Damages-for-Video-Games-Piracy-92063.shtml

http://gaygamer.net/2008/08/esa_pleased_with_piracy_prison.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9751921-7.html
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Piracy-Puts-People-in-Prison-92460

A simple search with google with give you plenty of real world instances where people were given prison sentences for software piracy.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=software+piracy+prison&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&fp=5HbSQtJhN8k

And here is a link in regard to the penalties.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=software+piracy+penalties&aq=2&oq=software+piracy&aqi=g10&fp=5HbSQtJhN8k

Piracy IS illegal. And YOU CAN go to prison because of it.

- zipperback
:popcorn:
I was going to take this seriously, but you just linked me people going to prison for *selling* pirated software, there is a MAJOR difference.
Don't go spreading this bad image of you going to prison for downloading stuff. You wont go to prison, you'll just be fined to the point of no return.(Which is just about as bad, but we don't need misinformation on such an uninformed subject)

zipperback
June 16th, 2009, 09:02 PM
I was going to take this seriously, but you just linked me people going to prison for *selling* pirated software, there is a MAJOR difference.
Don't go spreading this bad image of you going to prison for downloading stuff. You wont go to prison, you'll just be fined to the point of no return.(Which is just about as bad, but we don't need misinformation on such an uninformed subject)

I'm not spreading misinformation. I'm posting real world information in regard to this subject.


For example:
"There are significant financial and legal penalties for software piracy. Illegal distribution and use of software can result in prison terms of up to five years, and felony charges with fines up to US$250,000. In civil litigation against those who illegally distribute Adobe software, Adobe can obtain the higher of its lost profits, the infringer's profits, or statutory damages of up to $US150,000 per product infringed, plus Adobe's attorney fees."

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/antipiracy/penalties.html

That isn't about "Selling" that is for the illegal distribution and USE of the software.

READ over some of the pages on the following:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=software+piracy+penalties&aq=2&oq=software+piracy&aqi=g10&fp=1&cad=b

PRISON time IS a real world risk for downloading, using, and/or redistribution of pirated materials.

To ignore the fact that PRISON is a real world risk for software piracy is just stupid.

Piracy is ILLEGAL and shouldn't be tolerated.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

zipperback
June 16th, 2009, 09:12 PM
Perhaps you might want to consider the information on the following websites and make your own informed decisions about the subject.

http://www.riaa.com/
http://www.mpaa.org/piracy_AndLaw.asp
http://www.bsa.org/
http://www.groklaw.net/
http://ezee.se/articles-blog/2008/06/29/10-years-prison-seeding-torrents/

What you decide to do is up to you, but to ignore the fact that prison is a REAL penalty for piracy is just plain stupid and if a person gets busted because they refuse to accept the real facts then that's their own fault. Ignorance is NO EXCUSE.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

billgoldberg
June 16th, 2009, 09:18 PM
Saying that I had illegally downloaded various files. Is it legal in the states for them to look at the files on my computer? If not I would go ahead and keep them on just not download things anymore. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask the question. If so the mods can go ahead delete this thread. Just please dont delete my profile:(

I wouldn't worry about it. Let them prove it first.

You must take precautions before downloading though. Don't use Gnutella's network or some.

nw2001
June 16th, 2009, 09:21 PM
I'm not spreading misinformation. I'm posting real world information in regard to this subject.


For example:
"There are significant financial and legal penalties for software piracy. Illegal distribution and use of software can result in prison terms of up to five years, and felony charges with fines up to US$250,000. In civil litigation against those who illegally distribute Adobe software, Adobe can obtain the higher of its lost profits, the infringer's profits, or statutory damages of up to $US150,000 per product infringed, plus Adobe's attorney fees."

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/antipiracy/penalties.html

That isn't about "Selling" that is for the illegal distribution and USE of the software.

READ over some of the pages on the following:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=software+piracy+penalties&aq=2&oq=software+piracy&aqi=g10&fp=1&cad=b

PRISON time IS a real world risk for downloading, using, and/or redistribution of pirated materials.

To ignore the fact that PRISON is a real world risk for software piracy is just stupid.

Piracy is ILLEGAL and shouldn't be tolerated.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

If its such a real world risk why hasn't it happened yet? Oh... it hasn't.
The only people that have been thrown in prison are distributors, people who sell or give away pirated software, not people who download it. If you are going to argue with me at least back up yo argument, Don't give me crap that is absolutely worthless and pointless in this argument.

Yes you can go to prison if you *share* it. And generally cops only go after big distributors.

Otherwise, with downloading, you risk getting caught by the ISP or the big companies out to get you, They'll either turn off your internet(Not likely) or sue your ****. The cops will not be involved you will not pass go, you will not go directly to jail. It'll be more like they landed on a chance card and you have to pay them $50.(Though in this case, 50 = A LOT more money.)

I'll agree piracy is bad and you probably shouldn't do it, but I'm not about to let you spread this misinformation. And adobe's eula isn't a legal document we should be using for evidence in an argument, they have yet to use a Eula in a real legal fight afaik.


While it is *possible* that you might go to jail, It doesn't seem likely at all since it has yet to even happen to someone who downloaded something. Overall its a grey area where anything can happen but nothing is likely to happen.

On that note I'm done here, if this doesn't get through to you, its not worth arguing with you.



To the OP: If its from the ISP its likely a warning if it is just stop dling your stuff and dont worry about it not much is likely to happen, if it says more than that, you have something to worry about.

koleoptero
June 16th, 2009, 09:40 PM
I'm not spreading misinformation. I'm posting real world information in regard to this subject.


For example:
"There are significant financial and legal penalties for software piracy. Illegal distribution and use of software can result in prison terms of up to five years, and felony charges with fines up to US$250,000. In civil litigation against those who illegally distribute Adobe software, Adobe can obtain the higher of its lost profits, the infringer's profits, or statutory damages of up to $US150,000 per product infringed, plus Adobe's attorney fees."

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/antipiracy/penalties.html

That isn't about "Selling" that is for the illegal distribution and USE of the software.

READ over some of the pages on the following:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=software+piracy+penalties&aq=2&oq=software+piracy&aqi=g10&fp=1&cad=b

PRISON time IS a real world risk for downloading, using, and/or redistribution of pirated materials.

To ignore the fact that PRISON is a real world risk for software piracy is just stupid.

Piracy is ILLEGAL and shouldn't be tolerated.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

If you're trying to get the OP to commit suicide to avoid all the trouble, you're on the right track. Keep going.

Maheriano
June 16th, 2009, 09:53 PM
It is illegal for an ISP to store information about any of their users without a police report and judge appointed request to do so. So they do not know what you were downloading, it is either an informed guess or they were told by the person you downloaded from.

And no, there is no way in hell they looked at the files on your machine. That is highly illegal.

zipperback
June 16th, 2009, 10:08 PM
On that note I'm done here, if this doesn't get through to you, its not worth arguing with you.

The facts are what they are. Nothing more. Nothing less.

------------------------------------------------
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=years&url=/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00001204----000-.html
Title 17 of the US Code states the following:
(a) In General.— Any person who violates section 1201 or 1202 willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain—
(1) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both, for the first offense; and
(2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent offense.
-------------------------------------------------

Piracy is ILLEGAL.
PRISON is a realistic option for the legal system to use as a penalty against someone who violates the law.
To state that there is nothing to worry about when the reality of the situation clearly shows otherwise is dangerous because it is providing misinformation and does little more than to encourage others to break the law.

My opinion is simply this, as a community of open source advocates we should all be (Myself INCLUDED) mindful of what we do online and how our actions affect both ourselves and the community in general. Just because the technology is available to illegally download software or violate the intellectual property rights of others, does not mean that as a whole, those actions which are in clear violation of the law, should be tolerated.

Regardless of how we the community (Myself INCLUDED) may or may not feel about a specific law and its related penalties, we should still strive to work within those laws and if the laws are unjust, then the community (Myself INCLUDED) should work within the legal system to change those laws to better reflect the will of the people.

However, given the consideration that PIRACY is illegal, to condone the actions, and even perhaps to encourage those actions without consideration of the legal, moral, and ethical implications of those actions, is in my opinion unacceptable.

To simply state that "there is no risk", is false and encourages people to break the law and it provides them with really bad advice.

Regardless of how ever small you may or may not perceive the risk to be, software piracy is illegal, and therefore should not under any circumstances be tolerated or encouraged.

I do not profess to be an expert in the matters of law, nor am I giving anyone specific LEGAL ADVICE, I am not an attorney.

My postings are simply my expressing my opinion on a public forum related to the subject matter at hand, nothing more, nothing less, and therefore my opinions should be considered just that, MY OPINIONS.

However, I do encourage you to read up on the actual laws, and make YOUR OWN informed decisions, and to form your own opinions on the subject matter, and to consult legal council whenever possible.

As stated, this is my opinion on the subject matter, and the law is what it is. I strongly encourage you to seek legal council from an attorney well versed in dealing with copyrights and intellectual properties.

- zipperback
:popcorn: