Why aren't there mini pci video cards?

[swoll1980]

Just wondering.

[gn2]

Because there's no need for them?
Laptops come with graphics adapters already installed.....

[swoll1980]

Because there's no need for them?
Laptops come with graphics adapters already installed.....

yeah, but they aren't very good. You could say that most motherboards for Desktops come with on-board graphics too, but that they are also crappy

[gletob]

I don't know why they couldn't have some interface where you could easily upgrade your graphics card. The more modular the better.

[ibutho]

Just wondering.
I've often wondered about this myself. Seems like a good way to replace built-in graphics cards with something better.

[gn2]

On-board graphics in desktop motherboards and laptops are perfect for their intended use, which isn't playing games.
That's what consoles are for.

[swoll1980]

On-board graphics in desktop motherboards and laptops are perfect for their intended use, which isn't playing games.
That's what consoles are for.

What if I want a 3D accelerated desktop? My intel 845 integrated 32mb graphics card doesn't cut it. I'm sure the reason there isn't any isn't because the on-board graphics are "perfect"

[gn2]

What if I want a 3D accelerated desktop?

Have you looked here (http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/Hardware/Intel#Setup), here (http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/Plugins/Workarounds) and here (http://www.searchmarked.com/ubuntu/how-to-enable-compiz-fusion-on-ubuntu-710-if-your-video-card-is-blacklisted.php)?

Edit: Just checked my Asus F9E laptop, the Intel graphics adapter can be set to "Extra" in System > Preferences > Appearance > Visual Effects.
But I prefer it set to None.

Edit2: read my post again: "perfect for their intended use"

[Icehuck]

What if I want a 3D accelerated desktop? My intel 845 integrated 32mb graphics card doesn't cut it. I'm sure the reason there isn't any isn't because the on-board graphics are "perfect"

If you wanted a 3D accelerated desktop you should have gotten a board with an Nvidia or ATI chipset on it.

[swoll1980]

If you wanted a 3D accelerated desktop you should have gotten a board with an Nvidia or ATI chipset on it.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda, when I bought the lap there was no such thing as a 3D accelerated desktop. Which is why an easy way to upgrade laptop graphics would be sweet.

[abn91c]

What if I want a 3D accelerated desktop? My intel 845 integrated 32mb graphics card doesn't cut it. I'm sure the reason there isn't any isn't because the on-board graphics are "perfect"
are you on a desktop, because low profile video cards are available in many sites like newegg, geeks, tigerdirect. if it a older Dell like a dimension2400, it has 2 available PCI slots.

[swoll1980]

Have you looked here (http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/Hardware/Intel#Setup), here (http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/Plugins/Workarounds) and here (http://www.searchmarked.com/ubuntu/how-to-enable-compiz-fusion-on-ubuntu-710-if-your-video-card-is-blacklisted.php)?

Edit: Just checked my Asus F9E laptop, the Intel graphics adapter can be set to "Extra" in System > Preferences > Appearance > Visual Effects.
But I prefer it set to None.

Compiz works on it. It's just choppy, and flickers sometimes.

[swoll1980]

are you on a desktop, because low profile video cards are available in many sites like newegg, geeks, tigerdirect. if it a older Dell like a dimension2400, it has 2 available PCI slots.

My desktop has a pci video card, and works great. Thanks for the advice though.

[hessiess]

I doubt that minipci-e has enough bandwidth to run a video card and eaven if it did there would probably be too much heat produced and/or not enough room. As already stated, buy a laptop with a proper dedicated video chipset.

BTW, gaming is not the only thing that requires a video card, for eamle 3D modeling.

[abn91c]

My desktop has a pci video card, and works great. Thanks for the advice though.
you can always get one of these http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3940221&CatId=3840 :-)

[Skripka]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda, when I bought the lap there was no such thing as a 3D accelerated desktop. Which is why an easy way to upgrade laptop graphics would be sweet.

Several reasons:

1) Heat. a PC slot on a laptop has no room for a heat sink. Passive, blower or otherwise.

2) Bandwidth, does one of those slots even have enough bandwidth for 3d graphics?

3) I do not believe a PC slot on a laptop can supply enough power via bus to power a GPU. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

4) Yes Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda. And you know it.

5) If you want 3d gaming Do NOT get something which has onboard graphics. Simple as that.

[gn2]

BTW, gaming is not the only thing that requires a video card, for eamle 3D modeling.

Which would probably be better done on a high power workstation rather than a laptop?

[Skripka]

Which would probably be better done on a high power workstation rather than a laptop?

I cannot imagine why anyone would put themselves through doing any kind of serious 3d work on a laptop...it really does not make sense at all.

[swoll1980]

you can always get one of these http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3940221&CatId=3840 :-)

Wow! That's a good price.

[gn2]

Wow! That's a good price.

Are you sure you read the page correctly?

"Note: No CPU, Memory, Hard Drive, or Wireless Card included with this notebook"

[swoll1980]

Are you sure you read the page correctly?

"Note: No CPU, Memory, Hard Drive, or Wireless Card included with this notebook"

Those tings are cheap. When I see gaming notebooks at micro center they want $2000 for them.

[gn2]

Those tings are cheap.

Mobile CPUs are far from cheap.

[Godly]

Because then it would cost more to manufacture, and they're trying to keep cost/overhead down to push as many units out the door as possible.

[swoll1980]

Mobile CPUs are far from cheap.

I guess cheap is subjective you can get a 2.4 GHz core duo for $200 throw in the other stuff, and your around $400 add that to the price of that laptop, and you save $800

[mips]

Just wondering.

They do, it's called Mobile PCI Express Module (MXM) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module) but your notebook has to have one in the first place. It's cheaper though to simply surface mount things on the MB so most manufacturers don't go this route. You will only see it on higher end notebooks.

[swoll1980]

They do, it's called Mobile PCI Express Module (MXM) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module) but your notebook has to have one in the first place. It's cheaper though to simply surface mount things on the MB so most manufacturers don't go this route. You will only see it on higher end notebooks.

That's cool. Unfortunately it doesn't do me a lot of good. When I bought my computers I didn't know anything about computers, and assumed I could upgrade the laptop. I can't even upgrade the processor in it for some reason. I have a processor sitting here that has the same bus speed, same socket, but it's 200 MHz faster, but for some reason when I install it the laptop won't do anything. It turns on, but wont even post, or give me a dell screen, or anything

[gn2]

I guess cheap is subjective you can get a 2.4 GHz core duo for $200 throw in the other stuff, and your around $400 add that to the price of that laptop, and you save $800

Don't know where you do your hardware shopping, I'm in the UK and don't really know the US market, but I managed to find this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115540).

[LowSky]

That's cool. Unfortunately it doesn't do me a lot of good. When I bought my computers I didn't know anything about computers, and assumed I could upgrade the laptop. I can't even upgrade the processor in it for some reason. I have a processor sitting here that has the same bus speed, same socket, but it's 2 GHz faster, but for some reason when I install it the laptop won't do anything. It turns on, but wont even post, or give me a dell screen, or anything

the reason you couldn't use that newer processor is becaus ehte motherboard is not capable. either because you never updated the BIOS or it physically cant hadle such processing speed. hard to tell without looking at it, but since you said its a Dell,the BIOS wont be upgradelbe at all.

Laptops are not really upgradable. Sure you can get faster hard drives, different DVD-Burners, maybe add more RAM, but As for anything else forget it. Laptops are meant for one thing portability. To get potability you sacrifice upgrading, processing power, keyboard size, trackpad over a mouse, and expandibility.

Also the computer market changes every 18 months, so the computer you buy today is really out of date within six months and geriatric in 18, and laptops are actually slower than comparitivly priced desktops by usually a good amount. so if you expect to do gaming and video editing a laptop is a really poor choice.

[hessiess]

I cannot imagine why anyone would put themselves through doing any kind of serious 3d work on a laptop...it really does not make sense at all.

Works fine for me, though my 3D work is far form serious:p

[swoll1980]

Don't know where you do your hardware shopping, I'm in the UK and don't really know the US market, but I managed to find this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115540).

Is that price UK $ or US $ Your money is worth way more than ours.

[Mehall]

Is that price UK $ or US $ Your money is worth way more than ours.

What he linked was US.

We use £ not $

[swoll1980]

What he linked was US.

We use £ not $

Do you have a key for $? If not how do you make a $? I don't have a key for the "E thingy" and couldn't make one if my life depended on it.

[swoll1980]

the reason you couldn't use that newer processor is becaus ehte motherboard is not capable. either because you never updated the BIOS or it physically cant hadle such processing speed. hard to tell without looking at it, but since you said its a Dell,the BIOS wont be upgradelbe at all.

Laptops are not really upgradable. Sure you can get faster hard drives, different DVD-Burners, maybe add more RAM, but As for anything else forget it. Laptops are meant for one thing portability. To get potability you sacrifice upgrading, processing power, keyboard size, trackpad over a mouse, and expandibility.

Also the computer market changes every 18 months, so the computer you buy today is really out of date within six months and geriatric in 18, and laptops are actually slower than comparitivly priced desktops by usually a good amount. so if you expect to do gaming and video editing a laptop is a really poor choice.

The processors are both intel celerons with 400 fsb socket 478 one is 2.4 one is 2.6 the 2GHz speed difference was a typo it was 2MHz

[gn2]

Is that price UK $ or US $ Your money is worth way more than ours.

That's the American Newegg site, prices are in US dollars.

We have £ in the UK ;)

Which is Shift + 3 on a UK/GB keyboard

[Mokoma]

a pci(not pci-e) 5200 would be better than a crappy intel intergrated

[swoll1980]

a pci(not pci-e) 5200 would be better than a crappy intel intergrated

Yeah I have a PCI NVIDIA 6200 on my desktop, and it is a hundred times better than the intel 845

[Mokoma]

Yeah I have a PCI NVIDIA 6200 on my desktop, and it is a hundred times better than the intel 845

lol

[collinp]

lol

Actually, I have a Geforce 6200 in this desktop, much better than the ~10 years old integrated graphics on the motherboard.

Laptops are made to be light and portable, they are not made to be upgraded. They would be much bigger if they was made to be upgraded. On that same topic, laptops are not made to do any form of 3D OpenGL/DirectX accelerated work. They are made to be portable, and they do their job well. If you want to do 3D work, get a desktop.

[mips]

The processors are both intel celerons with 400 fsb socket 478 one is 2.4 one is 2.6 the 2GHz speed difference was a typo it was 2MHz

Hmm, that brings back something I saw a long time (3yr) ago wrt my HP notebook with celeron cpu. You could not simply plug in a non-celeron cpu. What you could however do is bridge two pins on the cpu to fool the motherboard or something and then it would work.

[Stupendoussteve]

The processors are both intel celerons with 400 fsb socket 478 one is 2.4 one is 2.6 the 2GHz speed difference was a typo it was 2MHz

The difference between 2.4GHz (2400MHz) and 2.6GHz (2600GHz) is more than 2MHz ;)

[swoll1980]

The difference between 2.4GHz (2400MHz) and 2.6GHz (2600GHz) is more than 2MHz ;)

200MHz yet another typo

[Mokoma]

Actually, I have a Geforce 6200 in this desktop, much better than the ~10 years old integrated graphics on the motherboard.

Laptops are made to be light and portable, they are not made to be upgraded. They would be much bigger if they was made to be upgraded. On that same topic, laptops are not made to do any form of 3D OpenGL/DirectX accelerated work. They are made to be portable, and they do their job well. If you want to do 3D work, get a desktop.

if that where true no 3D capable laptops would exist now would they xD

[swoll1980]

Hmm, that brings back something I saw a long time (3yr) ago wrt my HP notebook with celeron cpu. You could not simply plug in a non-celeron cpu. What you could however do is bridge two pins on the cpu to fool the motherboard or something and then it would work.

I will have to pull it out, and look at it and see if there's something different with the pins.

[gn2]

if that where true no 3D capable laptops would exist now would they xD

They certainly do exist and most of them have Intel GPUs fitted.

[rotwang888]

I don't have a key for the "E thingy" and couldn't make one if my life depended on it.

Use the "compose" key. The best thing ever. You can set it to be whatever you like- mine is right-alt. So pressing right-alt, L, and - gets you £. right-alt, =, and c for €. I use it all the time for umlauts. The combinations are mostly intuitive and much easier than the windows "alt182" or what have you. Sorry. Back to video cards...

[MaxIBoy]

Just wondering.Same reason there aren't any carrier-pigeon video cards.

Rule of thumb: Never buy a laptop for anything your grandmother wouldn't want to do. That's about all the poor things are capable of.

EDIT: Above rule holds true even if your grandmother is dead.

[mips]

I will have to pull it out, and look at it and see if there's something different with the pins.

I suggest you rather look or hacks relating to this issue. Pin differences mean squat if you do not know the functions of the pins.

[3rdalbum]

There are very very few mini-pci video cards because laptop manufacturers want you to buy a new machine rather than upgrade your existing one.

It's even getting to be impossible to buy a barebook/whitebook.

Asus had a website where you could describe and draw your ideas for future PCs; about a thousand people drew impractical multi-screen laptops, I drew a laptop with a port on the side for a desktop graphics card and another port on the other side for a desktop CPU. Let's just say, Asus hasn't contacted me about my idea, nor are they known to be working on such a concept. Lenovo, on the other hand, is known to be working on a multi-screen laptop.

[Polygon]

On-board graphics in desktop motherboards and laptops are perfect for their intended use, which isn't playing games.
That's what consoles are for.

my computer and its 9800gtx formally disagree with you >:O

[Skripka]

delete

[diwas]

I don't know if I fit in here, but I have something to say.

Look at gaming consoles. PS2, PS3, XBOX idk what else are there. Any new game releases it works just fine in these. Yes, I know games of PS3 won't work (correction please) or are slow in PS2 and stuff. But look at the trend. Upgrade of PS3 was long long after PS2 was released. But every new game will just work in PS3. PC, on the contrary, have to be regularly upgraded to play the latest game. WHY? I mean can't the display chips have some standards like in consoles that will work? Why isn't PCs (gaming PCs I mean) have to be upgraded in i dont know like 6 months(to play latest games)?

Is there "another mechanism" that consoles have and PC doesn't other than consoles are mainly for games and PCs are multi-purpose. So, isn't it possible for PCs to behave like consoles regarding games?

[gn2]

So, isn't it possible for PCs to behave like consoles regarding games?

It's all down to the business model.
PCs are not intended as gaming platforms, but are adapted for that purpose by addition of certain hardware.
Unless that hardware is continually upgraded, the hardware manufacturers go bust, because they don't get licensing fees from the game developer companies like console manufacturers do.

[3rdalbum]

Is there "another mechanism" that consoles have and PC doesn't other than consoles are mainly for games and PCs are multi-purpose. So, isn't it possible for PCs to behave like consoles regarding games?

All of that particular console have exactly the same graphics and CPU specifications, so the developer must write FOR the console. With the PC market, they have the luxury of saying "Okay, if you have xyz graphics cards you can run on minimum settings, but if you have abc graphics cards you can have all the eye-candy turned on".

[diwas]

Thank you for clearing me out on this.

But I want to ask something more. Are there differences between the same game in PC and console? I saw PS3's review once and well it had stunning graphics. And like you said that "...if u have abc card you can turn on the eye-candy.." now, clearly, the graphics are different, but to what extend?

Sorry to ask such questions...to be honest I have never played..well actually seen ANY console till now! I am not much of a gamer but this upgrading things really surprises me.

[mips]

... now, clearly, the graphics are different, but to what extend?


To the extent of what the hardware allows and the capability of the programmers.

The PS3 is pretty powerfull and the developers still have some way to go before they exhaust the capabilities of the hardware.

I only had a PS1 but I recall the first games were not that spectacular but as time went by the developers got more familair with the hardware and could get more out of it so the games improved with time.

[LowSky]

I don't know if I fit in here, but I have something to say.

Look at gaming consoles. PS2, PS3, XBOX idk what else are there. Any new game releases it works just fine in these. Yes, I know games of PS3 won't work (correction please) or are slow in PS2 and stuff. But look at the trend. Upgrade of PS3 was long long after PS2 was released. But every new game will just work in PS3. PC, on the contrary, have to be regularly upgraded to play the latest game. WHY? I mean can't the display chips have some standards like in consoles that will work? Why isn't PCs (gaming PCs I mean) have to be upgraded in i dont know like 6 months(to play latest games)?

Is there "another mechanism" that consoles have and PC doesn't other than consoles are mainly for games and PCs are multi-purpose. So, isn't it possible for PCs to behave like consoles regarding games?


1. PS3 can play older games, but PS2 canot play PS3 games, just simply cant. also the newest models of the PS3 cannot play PS2 games at all. It can play PS1 games but because it lack a processing chip or the emulating software the PS2 games will not play.

2. #1 applies to every system ever made, and was much worse in the old days, ie: Nintendo's NES games couldn't run on a Super NES.

3. Actually not every game will "just work" some require an update to the PS3 firmware, which usually will need to be installed over the internet connection. The Firmware upgrade can "brick" a PS3 if done incorrectly (just like a PC) the same applied to the PS2 as well.

4.Consols are released every 5-8 years. Usually the PC gaming market has a new release ever 12-18 months. In recent years the PC market has tanked because of this quick pace and the Piracy of PC games. Games cannot be ported or created to fullfill the abilities of the PC graphics cards. Infact the Nvidia 8xxx series cards are still very powerful in today's market.

[diwas]

1. PS3 can play older games, but PS2 canot play PS3 games, just simply cant. also the newest models of the PS3 cannot play PS2 games at all. It can play PS1 games but because it lack a processing chip or the emulating software the PS2 games will not play.

2. #1 applies to every system ever made, and was much worse in the old days, ie: Nintendo's NES games couldn't run on a Super NES.

3. Actually not every game will "just work" some require an update to the PS3 firmware, which usually will need to be installed over the internet connection. The Firmware upgrade can "brick" a PS3 if done incorrectly (just like a PC) the same applied to the PS2 as well.

4.Consols are released every 5-8 years. Usually the PC gaming market has a new release ever 12-18 months. In recent years the PC market has tanked because of this quick pace and the Piracy of PC games. Games cannot be ported or created to fullfill the abilities of the PC graphics cards. Infact the Nvidia 8xxx series cards are still very powerful in today's market.
Well thank you for the answers. Its all about business then.

I am glad im not much of a gamer. But I play FIFA07 oh yea..primitive but classic u know :p
Oh yes, Need For Speed II...now this is classic and my favorite game! haha