Legal Talk - Is this legal?

[toasty_ghosty]

Hello,

Before people jump the ship and think I am speaking about Linux being against copyright stuff, I am not. In fact, I am going the opposite. What is the legal limits on using things such as the Debian logo on "other products"?

The reason I ask is I have been ordering shisha (tabacco for a hookah) and I stumbled upon this website:

http://www.hookahhookah.com/hookahhookah_com_-_store2/home.php

Take a minute and look at the front page. If you cannot seem to find what I am talking about look at the worm in the upper left hand corner. It seems this company has taken the Debian logo and began using it on its products. I may be completely off but that is what it appears to me.

It appears all over their products and website.

Thoughts?

-Ghosty

[matrixblue]

Depends on the license that the logo is released under. In general I think it's only a problem if you're using the logo to represent something that is NOT their product

[sekinto]

Debian Open Use Logo License

Copyright (c) 1999 Software in the Public Interest
This logo or a modified version may be used by anyone to refer to the Debian project, but does not indicate endorsement by the project.

Note: we would appreciate that you make the image a link to http://www.debian.org/ if you use it on a web page.

And it might not be an exact copy, the Debian logo is just a spiral after all, someone could have come up with something similar on accident.

[toasty_ghosty]

And it might not be an exact copy, the Debian logo is just a spiral after all, someone could have come up with something similar on accident.

I don't know. If you look here:

http://www.hookahhookah.com/hookahhookah_com_-_store2/product.php?productid=16399&cat=266&page=1

And compare it to Debian's website:

http://www.debian.org/trademark

It is clearly the same one, minus of course a slight rotation and the words Hookah Hookah added.

Don't know if that changes it enough to count as a new logo though...

[Sef]

Moved to Community Cafe.

[mocoloco]

I've seen a Debianish spiral in a few different places that made me think the same thing. I can't remember now where they were. One of them was spiraling the other way but was otherwise identical. I had to wonder if it was coincidence or not.

[toasty_ghosty]

Debian Open Use Logo License

Copyright (c) 1999 Software in the Public Interest
This logo or a modified version may be used by anyone to refer to the Debian project, but does not indicate endorsement by the project.

Note: we would appreciate that you make the image a link to http://www.debian.org/ if you use it on a web page.



Hookah does not refer to the Debian project.

-Ghosty

[lloyd_b]

I don't know. If you look here:

http://www.hookahhookah.com/hookahhookah_com_-_store2/product.php?productid=16399&cat=266&page=1

And compare it to Debian's website:

http://www.debian.org/trademark

It is clearly the same one, minus of course a slight rotation and the words Hookah Hookah added.

Don't know if that changes it enough to count as a new logo though...
Does it really matter if it's a new logo? IIRC, trademarks are registered for a specific area of commerce. Debian's trademark is most likely categorized as "Computer" or "Software" (not sure what the categories are).

This web page has nothing to do with computers or software, other than being on the web.

So this is only a violation if that shop's use of the logo in some fashion "diluted" Debian's ability to use it within its specified domain. Which doesn't seem likely in this case...

Lloyd B.

[eljalill]

Whether or not you can use a sign or mark that is similar to an already exisiting one depends on whether or not the user is likely to be confused by the use. This in turn depends on the awareness of the trademark. Because of this you can hardly ever use anything red white even remotely like a Coca-Cola sign anywhere around the world- because the sign and the product are very well known anywhere. Even if you are marketing a T-Shirt people will think it has something to to with the soft drink or the company producing and selling it.
So the question is, whether people buying shisha tobacco or a waterpipe will think that the enterprise selling it or the products sold have anything to do with Debian. This, as said, depends on how well known Debian and its Logo are, and in how far any danger of connecting it to the original enterprise exists...
And my guess is that most courts would judge the use of similar logos in this case as legal, as the Debian logo isn't very well known among average hookah users, and people are not very likely to think that the hookah or the seller have anything to do with Debian as an enterprise.

[dmizer]

Spirals are very common in Eastern and Middle-Eastern mythology. It's origin predates the Debian logo by a few thousand years. Also, spirals are a common theme in hookas, and in smoke. It doesn't take a very big leap of logic to put the two together for a logo.

Odds are, that's a near match completely by chance.

To quote wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral#As_a_symbol), "The spiral is the most ancient symbol found on every civilized continent."

[sekinto]

Hookah does not refer to the Debian project.

-Ghosty

I don't recall saying it did.

[forrestcupp]

Spirals are very common in Eastern and Middle-Eastern mythology. It's origin predates the Debian logo by a few thousand years. Also, spirals are a common theme in hookas, and in smoke. It doesn't take a very big leap of logic to put the two together for a logo.

Odds are, that's a near match completely by chance.

To quote wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral#As_a_symbol), "The spiral is the most ancient symbol found on every civilized continent."
Thank you!

For being open source enthusiasts, the community sure gets crazy about trademarks and logos. It's a spiral, for crying out loud. It's not even the same color, and it doesn't have the same rough edges, gradually getting lighter at the end point. It's just a spiral that happens to rotate in the same direction, and it's just part of the picture of a worm. If you look at the little spiral icon by the address bar, it looks even less like Debian's spiral.

These guys probably haven't even heard of Debian.

[Simian Man]

It happens all them time. (http://www.logodesignlove.com/similar-original-logos) In fact the spiral example is not really all that bad.

[toasty_ghosty]

I don't recall saying it did.

No no. I was quoting simply the Debian legal jargon.

[swoll1980]

It's actually illegal in many countries to answer this question w/o out a license to practice law.