Are netbooks undeminding Windows 7?

[dspari1]

Microsoft was practically ready to discontinue Windows XP and capitalize Windows 7 by no longer providing support to businesses.

Because of the popularity of netbooks, Microsoft was forced to reduce the price of Windows XP to $25 OEM. What this means is that Microsoft is going to have to support Windows XP for years to come.

If Microsoft is going to continue to support XP, why would business upgrade to Windows 7?

[BXL]

The support for XP is limited to netbooks. Since migrating from one release of Windows to the next isn't a process of days, rather of months and years I even expect that we will see a rise of Vista during the next couple of years. Even if Windows 7 will be released sometime in 2010, I don't expect that businesses will migrate directly to 7 since they have to know whether their applications can be migrated to 7 as well. This hast to be tested before the management takes such a decision.

Regarding netbooks, I expect to see XP replaced by 7 as soon as 7 is released. Right now there is a discussion if the producers will only get a "castrated" version of 7 for netbooks or if they get a full powered version. This is also a discussion regarding the price, because a "netbook" version can be sold cheaper, where as the full version of 7 will come with a premium, which would result in a price advantage for Linux (and we know that MS won't like that).

Windows 7 is capable to run on low spec systems. I tried 7 Beta on my Inspiron (Pentium M 1400 Mhz, 512 MB Ram) and a Friend uses 7 Beta on his MSI Wind.

[gn2]

Support for Xp was announced to run until April 2014 before the term "netbook" even existed.

Since netbooks with Xp installed hit the shelves, there has been no change to the date at which support for Xp will end.

So thus far netbooks are not an influence on Xp support.

It will be interesting to see what happens in 2014 when Xp support gets switched off, will there be floods of second user netbooks on the market?

[Swagman]

Microsoft are trying to kill Netbook category. It costs them far too much.

They have undoubtedly lobbied manufacturers to UP the specs to the point where Joe Numpty might as well buy a laptop.

= Win for Win

[BXL]

Microsoft are trying to kill Netbook category. It costs them far too much.

They have undoubtedly lobbied manufacturers to UP the specs to the point where Joe Numpty might as well buy a laptop.
IMO Netbooks are laptops. The only (big) difference is the size. 10" in comparison to 15" is very important when you're interested into something ultraportable and light. Subnotebooks between 10"-12" used to be extremely overpriced until "netbooks" arrived.

[Ralex1098]

IMO Netbooks are laptops. The only (big) difference is the size. 10" in comparison to 15" is very important when you're interested into something ultraportable and light. Subnotebooks between 10"-12" used to be extremely overpriced until "netbooks" arrived.

And computing power. I can barely watch youtube videos on my netbook.

[Swagman]

Thats strange.

All three of my daughters EEEpc 701's with the default Xandros O/s play Youtubes with no issue at all.

[BXL]

And computing power. I can barely watch youtube videos on my netbook.

Youtube seems to work on my Eee 701 much better/fluent when I turn off compiz.

[Johnsie]

Youtube is good on my 701 too... It's a really nice wee machine. I just wish I had more hard disk space.

Back to the subject. I think netbooks might be good for windows 7. One of the main problems with Vista adoption is that it had high hardware requirements. The Vista developers were aiming for 'future' machines that they thought would be MORE capable. However it turned out that the future machines were netbooks and therfore LESS capable. People also refused to upgrade their hardware because they were happy with what they had.

Microsoft has learned alot of lessons from Vista... They know that the next OS needs to work on less capable hardware, needs to be compatible with old programs and drivers and needs to be secure without being annoying. So mu conclusion is that the existence of netbooks means that Windows 7 will need to be more efficient rather than more bloated. That will be good for any XP users who were hesitant about moving over to Vista.

At the business side if things... Technical departments will authorize an upgrade to windows 7 if they know that the migration will be a smooth process. Many techies are afraid to migrate because they fear the company hardware may not cope with with Vista and the users may struggle to deal with a new interface. What is the point in spending thousands rolling out a new OS when the current system already works? This is also one of the reasons why Linux hasn't taken off in business. Not many people can provide professional in house tech support for Linux, there are hardware and software compatibility issues and some of the users might need re-trained. Anyone who works in the IT industry knows that rolling out software is tricky and that rolling out new operating systems across the board is especially tricky. People come back to you with all kinds of problems.

[billgoldberg]

Youtube seems to work on my Eee 701 much better/fluent when I turn off compiz.

Works fine on my 900 too, but I won't even dream of running Compiz Fusion on it.

[BXL]

...but I won't even dream of running Compiz Fusion on it.

Compiz works great... always funny to show of compiz on the Eee to those runnung XP on their Atoms :D

[Methuselah]

Windows 7 isn't out yet so I don't think Xp is undermining it.
I do have some questions about how windows 7 will relate to netbooks though and what the average spec of a netbook will be at that time.

[bashveank]

Netbooks undermining Win 7?
No, one of the key features they talked about at unveiling was that the lead designer is running it as his main OS on his eeePC (or some other netbook, I can't remember)

[3rdalbum]

What concerns me more is that Windows XP and Windows 7 will undermine netbooks.

The Acer Aspire One has an interesting Linux-only feature, that it has two SD card slots. One of them is used like normal, the other one can actually be used to add space to the main filesystem. If netbooks start shipping only with Windows, then we'll all miss out on interesting features in favour of just building something that will run Windows.

The other thing is licensing. We could have had dual-core netbooks, except that Microsoft won't license XP Home for netbooks if they contain a dual-core processor. So no manufacturer will incorporate a dual-core Atom unless they are building something to run Vista - unlikely. Same issues apply for screen size and preinstalled RAM - Microsoft imposes limits for the licensing of its software, and this in turn limits what manufacturers will put into their computers.

[BXL]

Windows 7 isn't out yet
Well, Ubuntu 9.04 isn't out yet and people like myself already use it. Same with Windows 7, it was available as a free Beta and everyone who was interested could download it legally. That's why it's already running on different Laptops, Netbooks etc.


I do have some questions about how windows 7 will relate to netbooks though and what the average spec of a netbook will be at that time.
One of the criteria Windows 7 has to meet is that it's able to run on low spec systems like older hardware and netbooks. I know it runs perfectly with 512 MB Ram (Pentium M 1400 Ghz) as well as on the Atom N270 (1024 MB Ram).

The average specs for netbooks won't change much, at least the roadmap for the Intel Atom doesn't suggest a great performance increase in the near future. Personally I don't believe in dual core atoms. The price difference between Atoms z540 (US$44-135) and Celeron Ms (US$70-86) or c2d Ms (starting at US$209) isn't too great.

I guess we will see that cheaper subnotebooks with Celeron Ms will fill the gap between Netbooks and subnotebooks. The difference between netbooks, subnotebooks and laptops in the future will be the form factor (netbook 10"-12", subnotebook 12"-14", laptop 15" and over).

[Methuselah]

I guess my biggest question relates to how microsoft will license windows 7 for netbooks.

Lower end netbooks can cost 200-400 dollars.
At retail, a windows license can cost you that.
Let's assume a big OEM discount; even then 100 dollars added to a 1500 dollar PC is nothing but it is an unpalatable hike for a netbook that costs a couple hundred to manufacture.

So will the price premium for a windows netbooks remain low with windows 7? Will MS essentially subsidise the netbook market with revenue from other areas or force OEMs into bundle deals?

IMO, Xp isn't doing any undermining yet because windows 7 isn't out.
But Microsoft wanted Xp to disappear from the desktop when Vista came out and it wouldn't.
Xp's refusal to go away might be a small blessing but it is also a curse especially when it's deemed more suitable than new software that MS has spent money to develop.
Will it cling tenaciously to netbooks in a similar manner as the desktop?
I have too many unanswered questions to hazard a guess but it'll be fun to find out.

[BXL]

I guess my biggest question relates to how microsoft will license windows 7 for netbooks.

Well, there is the rumor of a 3 apps limit for the Windows 7 Starter but I don't think that such a castrated windows will be successful:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-7-netbooks-xp-vista,6974.html

[gn2]

Interesting price comparison between dual-core atom (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/152176) and single core atom (http://www.ebuyer.com/product/147222) mini-itx hardware.
Only £6 in it. :shock:

The additional cost of providing a dual-core atom would be minimal.
It is entirely Microsoft's fault that the computer buying public are denied the option of dual-core netbooks.