Microsoft: 96% Of Netbooks Run Windows

[billgoldberg]

It's impossible to tell.

Loads of Linux netbooks have been sold, so MS can't possibly have 96% of the netbook market.

Also just because people buy a Windows netbook (as I did as they don't seem to have linux netbooks anywhere here) don't mean they actually run it.

I wiped Windows XP after two days of usage from my Asus Eeepc.

[MaxIBoy]

Sounds like a load of crap to me.
*Finishes reading article*
Yeah, it's crap all right.

[Mehall]

Also, that won't be tracking online sales, which is where more linux users, and more consumers in general, would buy.

Amazon have plenty of Linux netbooks, and don't forget all the Dell mini 9's and 12's

[oasmar1]

I find it very hard to believe that after all those sales of netbooks Windows has 96%, it is far more likely that there are 96% of netbooks being sold with Windows, especially since they have probably used their strength in the OS market to make manufacturers switch to using XP rather than linux.

[miggols99]

It's hard to tell. Someone may buy a Windows netbook but then install Linux on it. But that's still counted as Windows. So the number is higher than it actually is.

[Bölvaður]

we dont care -.-

[Methuselah]

And 0% of those run their latest work but an old OS they were trying to get rid of.

Some 'vision' there...

[stchman]

I cannot see M$ gaining 86% share increase in less than a year. Sounds like BS to me.

He also uses the term "run" Windows. That might be that 96% of the netbooks sold are capable of running Windows. My Aspire One had XP pre-installed, I erased it in favor of Ubuntu.

Just not too long ago M$ was complaining that netbooks were cutting into their OS sales.

Sounds like M$ propaganda.

[Mehall]

The person they interviewed, Brandon leBlanc, is normally sensible enough, but he IS payed by MS, and I have found on a few occasions, he must have been thinking things differently from what he was saying, becuase it was his job.

[DivineTemplar]

I would put it closer to 65% or so, maybe even 70%. However they are not even trying to factor in all the people who are switching off of XP in favor of Ubuntu, but they are pretending to factor in those switching off of Ubuntu back to XP.

The fact that they had to resurrect XP after trying to kill it for Vista, just to try to compete with Linux based OS, says a lot.

[Giant Speck]

I say, "who cares?"

Even if this was true, does it really matter? Shouldn't we just enjoy using the operating system rather than constantly bickering over how popular it is or is not?

[simtaalo]

even if this was true, does it really matter? Shouldn't we just enjoy using the operating system rather than constantly bickering over how popular it is or is not?

+100000

[DivineTemplar]

I say, "who cares?"

Even if this was true, does it really matter? Shouldn't we just enjoy using the operating system rather than constantly bickering over how popular it is or is not?

This man has a good point.

[Fenris_rising]

My eeepc 904HD was bought second hand (2months old) off of ebay. The guy had 'issues' with the ***** pile of **** of an OS. When I got it I removed XP (having amused myself by firing it up and observing the plethora of virus and malware/scareware pop ups that were on board) So theres another unseen reversal of fortune for Microsoft so :P to the supposed market share. A part from that I don't care either.......but I do enjoy the feeling of...........smugness :D

regards

Fenris

[LowSky]

http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=216402927&subSection=News

According to this article Windows is on 96% of all Netbooks sold.
Th return rate for Netbooks with Linux is about 20% as well.

Personally I purchased a Lenovo S10 with Windows because it was the Netbook model I wanted, but I installed Ubutnu on it as a dualboot, I need Windows for my car's diagnostic software and to use the free wireless internet at work (Ubuntu oddly will not connect to our wireless here, and I dont have time to troubleshoot while there).

[DivineTemplar]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1117926

This topic already exists.

[kestrel1]

Reading the two comments that are there at present about says it all really.

[Bios Element]

"Not only are people overwhelmingly buying Windows, but those that try Linux are often returning it," wrote Leblanc, noting that the United Kingdom's Car phone Warehouse dropped Linux-based netbooks after seeing return rates as high as 20%.

^Yeah, And 80% of people keep their Linux netbook. But let's just use a low number to try to make it look like linux is failing. MS BS at it's standard.

[SonicSteve]

There is one factor that you guys are missing. Whether 96% is fully true or not it still comes out as bad press for Linux. The implication for those who are on the "inside" is that Linux was inferior and people wanted XP on their netbooks. I also heard reports that Linux netbooks are returned at a rate of 4 to 1 compared with Windows based netbooks. Truthfully I don't doubt that Linux Netbooks are returned more often. I would like to see the total picture, how many are sold and how many are returned. Is it that 100 are sold and 4 returned or what? That would mean that 100 windows netbooks are sold and 1 returned.

EDIT, if the 20% return rate is true that would mean that Win netbooks are coming in at 5%. Also if the 4 to 1 ratio I heard is true.

It will be a long road for Linux to even 20% market share let alone parity. It's about market dominance, corporate deals with manufacturers, bullying tactics, compatibility, marketing etc. etc.

In the end there is no sense whining about this, we need to just make Linux so good that there will be little reason for someone to choose Windows or Mac. Until then it will be a hard sell.


I would be interested to get satisfaction reports from an even # of netbook users, ie. 1000 linux netbooks and 1000 windows netbooks. At this point Linux has gained a good deal of exposure to many people who bought a netbook without knowing of it. Those are the users I would want to poll.

[bakedbeans4life]

Even considering the source of the article I doubt many in this part of the forum would acknowledge Microsoft "propaganda" exists.

Microsoft uses facts and has no need of "propaganda". ;)

"Windows = good" "Linux = bad", move along folks nothing to see here.

The tech press fulfill the same purpose to Microsoft as the "Iraqi Information Minister" did to Iraq and the outside world during the gulf war.

Smoke and mirrors people, smoke and mirrors.

[Ozor Mox]

Oh well never mind, I guess I'll continue using Ubuntu anyway.

(I also think the statistic is a load of rubbish, not least of all because it's coming directly from Microsoft themselves...ohhh, big surprise)

[Twitch6000]

I am not sure if it is just me,but I think that website is a bit biased.

I mean look they only have a windows section. No mac or linux section.

They also said Microsoft will be making a windows 7 for netbooks.

Yet they gave no source of info?

Yet I am sure I read around here the other day Microsoft cannot make Windows 7 run on a netbook due to its requirements.

So with that said I am just not gonna believe it <.<.

[kestrel1]

Oh well never mind, I guess I'll continue using Ubuntu anyway.

(I also think the statistic is a load of rubbish, not least of all because it's coming directly from Microsoft themselves...ohhh, big surprise)
Yes I was really surprised :lolflag:

[Giant Speck]

Yet I am sure I read around here the other day Microsoft cannot make Windows 7 run on a netbook due to its requirements..

Netbooks running Windows 7 will use either Windows 7 Starter Edition or Windows 7 Home Basic.

[Giant Speck]

I don't own (and probably never will own) a netbook.

EDIT: Crap. They merged the threads. This is awkward...

[kestrel1]

I don't own (and probably never will own) a netbook.
Don't think my eyes would be able to stand it. Need a larger display these days :-)

[Wobblybob]

Linux is on 100% of my netbooks, was from the beginning and will be to the end and frankly I don't care what Microsoft spout it will not get me back to a Windows desktop..

martin

[Giant Speck]

Don't think my eyes would be able to stand it. Need a larger display these days :-)

It's not so much the tiny screen. It's the tiny keyboard. I have large fingers.

[albinootje]

And 0% of those run their latest work but an old OS they were trying to get rid of.

Some 'vision' there...

LOL, good one! :)

[Brunellus]

I am tempted to shunt this thread to the "desktop readiness" megathread.

The underlying quality of the OS is irrelevant. Windows has been terrible (relatively speaking) for ages, and it continued to be dominant, not because of any meaningful consumer 'choice,' but because it happened to be the OEM OS.

If and when, say, ARMbooks become popular, and MSFT fails to port "real" Windows to that architecture, things will be different.

[Mehall]

I am tempted to shunt this thread to the "desktop readiness" megathread.

netbook != desktop ;)

[So Tough]

In the last 12 months i bought 2 netbooks, one with linux pre-installed and one with MS vista pre-installed

[Brunellus]

In the last 12 months i bought 2 netbooks, one with linux pre-installed and one with MS vista pre-installed
I don't think I could even squeeze Vista onto my eee 701.

(which reminds me--almost time to put eeebuntu on this sucker)

[albinootje]

I say, "who cares?"

Even if this was true, does it really matter? Shouldn't we just enjoy using the operating system rather than constantly bickering over how popular it is or is not?

Yes, but ignoring lies in the media is not always so easy :)

Anyway, I'm all for Ubuntu install parties, Ubuntu release parties, handing out free Ubuntu cdroms, collectively making Ubuntu better, and so on.

And I'd like to add a little story, in the last few weeks I've done some Ubuntu installations, at work, and also for friends.
The excitement was in the air, I have never seen people so happy after the installation of an Operating System.
Or is it just me, and do I not know so many fanatic^H^Herhm,happy MS-Windows users, or do I perhaps try to ignore them ?

[bakedbeans4life]

I am tempted to shunt this thread to the "desktop readiness" megathread.

The underlying quality of the OS is irrelevant. Windows has been terrible (relatively speaking) for ages, and it continued to be dominant, not because of any meaningful consumer 'choice,' but because it happened to be the OEM OS.

If and when, say, ARMbooks become popular, and MSFT fails to port "real" Windows to that architecture, things will be different.

"Windows has been terrible (relatively speaking) for ages", can I quote you on that statement, as well as the rest of your comment?

I say these things and I am considered biased. The exact same sentiment from one of the "Ubuntu Forums Staff" seems to be considered insightful.
Am I missing something?

[Mehall]

"Windows has been terrible (relatively speaking) for ages", can I quote you on that statement, as well as the rest of your comment?

I say these things and I am considered biased. The exact same sentiment from one of the "Ubuntu Forums Staff" seems to be considered insightful.
Am I missing something?

+1, people have had their posts edited/threads closed for "M$ Bashing" having said less.

They state of Moderating on these forums appals me sometimes.

[albinootje]

+1, people have had their posts edited/threads closed for "M$ Bashing" having said less.

They state of Moderating on these forums appals me sometimes.

Indeed. Several months ago I read a comment from a forum admin saying that the M$-bashers should be thankful what MS and Apple have done for the computer industry, .. something along those lines. I felt a very strong headache coming up right away (as a matter of speaking).

I wish that a lot of people would do some reading about which so-called "innovations" that MS has come up with in the past, and what they have done to their competition, and which courtcases against MS have been silently settled (See the history of BeOS for example), and under which US Government certain courtcases have been settled, and what dirty games MS has been playing for decades.

Here's just one early example about the only-compatible-with-MS-DOS tricks :
http://news.cnet.com/Microsoft-emails-focus-on-DR-DOS-threat/2100-1001_3-225129.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/11/05/how_ms_played_the_incompatibility/

Imagine you buy a new car, and you're about to buy some petrol at Texaco, and while filling the tank you get a message that your car only runs with the petrol from Shell. How fast would you verbally spread this news around to your relatives and friends ?

[bakedbeans4life]

I suspect this thread will go the way of the crew of the Mary Celeste.

But I am not without hope, I just want to be proven wrong.

[BXL]

One issue is that many netbooks are sold only with XP and even if the producer offers it officially with some sort of Linux it's hard to get find it in shops or even in online shop.

The other issue is that some producers sell their XP-Netbooks with better hardware. Upgrading the Linux-version is more expensive than buying the XP-Version and replacing the OS after purchase.

Windows 7 on the other hand will work, in my opinion, much better with the Atom-Processor. I installed 7 beta on my old laptop with 1.4 Ghz and 512 MB Ram and it was working without a problem. With an Atom and 1 or 2 Gig Ram, Windows 7 will be a strong competitor in the Netbook market.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

My wife bought an eeePC 701 with 4 GB SSD. It came with XP on it. It didn't take very long before she didn't use it anymore, and switched back to her big heavy laptop. The eeePC was slow, and it didn't have enough disk (SSD) space to install the Windows XP "security" updates. She asked me to install Linux on it. I installed eeeBuntu. She has been using the eeePC exclusively ever since.

I don't know how many people have replaced the Microsoft OS on their netbooks, and I don't think there is any way of actually knowing the answer. There are also eeePCs sold with the Xandros Linux OS that may have been replaced by other Linux distros or Microsoft XP.

[albinootje]

With an Atom and 1 or 2 Gig Ram, Windows 7 will be a strong competitor in the Netbook market.

I can see what you mean. But strong competitor in what sense ?
A few weeks ago I bought an Asus netbook for work because a new laptop was needed for making notes while travelling and showing presentations.
I decided to go for a netbook with XP pre-installed because there's a HP scanner which is not supported in Linux.

It came with ... StarOffice pre-installed on the XP home edition.

So I wonder what the competition is really about ?
MS-Office and MS-Exchange is what the cashcow for MS is, it's not just MS-Windows itself.

[gnomeuser]

When netbooks first hit the market here they came with both, but stores really marketed them as "small laptops" instead of as a whole new type of machine. So the Linux machines got replaced and the current wave are only available with Windows installed.

I make a point to ask if I can get them with Linux when I got by a store, I don't currently have a netbook and I wish I was in the market for one (but I am strapped for cash currently). When I get one I am afraid it will be a Windows model simply because I can't get one with a danish keyboard and Linux installed here anymore.

I think two things have caused a problem for Linux netbooks:

1) Marketing labelling them as small laptops with the same use cases as a regular laptop. This leads people to expect Windows and all their regular programs. Additionally as the wave of netbooks started while Vista was being pushed down peoples throat and XP is the only Windows that will run on this low powered machines it might have seemed like a good option for some to stay with what they knew.

2) The lack of a single uniform netbook interface for Linux. I think Xandros did amazing work for the EeePC but everyone seemed to want a piece of the market and that lead to there being tons of different experiences vs. the uniform Windows experience. Additionally many Linux vendors who got contracted for also fell into the trap of thinking it was just a small laptop and thus tried to fit a full desktop on there.

The path to winning back marketshare for Linux here is definitely a FreeDesktop.org project to provide an easy netbook interface that is intended for deployment on any distro and for small screens. With a focus on using and integrating online services. I believe something like the direction GNOME 3 is taking will be helpful in providing location awareness and other things that would make the netbook with Linux a compelling on the go experience with features that are not found anywhere else. Sugar and the experiences we got from the OLPC might also come in handy for providing ad-hoc local networking at a cafe for a little gaming any other things of that nature.

I believe this should be a primary focus for Linux distros over the next year to solve this problem and do so together. We need to present a good offering for this space and I strongly believe that we are in a great position to do so if we pull together now, right now today. This needs to be a Linux problem, not an Ubuntu, openSUSE and/or Fedora problem.

Why is it important to do it now?

Next month the ARM based netbooks and nettops will start rolling out. Windows does not run on these (unless you count Windows CE which we should not). These will offer some really compelling battery life and the form factor will be slim, fanless and thus perfect for this type of computing. The plan for these devices is to ramp up for a Christmas assault on the ATOM powered netbooks. This gives us a good few months to have a prototype ready, then some additional months to polish it and get it into distributions. This will give these ARM based netbooks something compelling to ship with as well as a roadmap for future updates provided they work with us.

Another thing to consider is that XP is being EOL'ed, the next generation of netbooks will have to be more powerful to run Vista or wait for Windows 7 and hope the rumours that it will provide a smoother experience are true. It is a good time to strike and get a perm. place on this market.

Of course there is also Google' Android to content with, it is being marketed for netbooks as well. I have to admit it is an interesting idea which should provide excellent competition and they already have a lot of the features we can provide but we have a lot more experience building desktop experiences than phone makers. I believe we have an edge and that we can exploit it to our advantage.

However the window of attack is small, we have maybe 6 months to execute a first strike and then the next 12 months will be vital get adoption and showing that we can stick to a roadmap and release schedule that can please vendors and users alike.

[dsnort33823]

Why would you ruin a perfectly good computer by putting Windows on it?;)

[Mehall]

The path to winning back marketshare for Linux here is definitely a FreeDesktop.org project to provide an easy netbook interface that is intended for deployment on any distro and for small screens. With a focus on using and integrating online services. I believe something like the direction GNOME 3 is taking will be helpful in providing location awareness and other things that would make the netbook with Linux a compelling on the go experience with features that are not found anywhere else. Sugar and the experiences we got from the OLPC might also come in handy for providing ad-hoc local networking at a cafe for a little gaming any other things of that nature.

I believe this should be a primary focus for Linux distros over the next year to solve this problem and do so together. We need to present a good offering for this space and I strongly believe that we are in a great position to do so if we pull together now, right now today. This needs to be a Linux problem, not an Ubuntu, openSUSE and/or Fedora problem.

I would rather "lose" to windows than have a standard desktop, even if it's still customisable afterwards.

if you had a "standard desktop", you would have no Mint, no Crunchbang, no this, no that, etc, etc.

You'd force Debian to have a GUI pre-installed. Or force Mandriva to move away from KDE or w/e

no, no, and no again.

[albinootje]

Next month the ARM based netbooks and nettops will start rolling out.

Just wondering, do you have a source for that ?
I can't find any announcements yet, and I'm just interested to know what brands and types would be available for which price.

[richg]

Who started this Poll? I do not remember starting the Poll. I do not do Polls.

Rich

[stchman]

I say, "who cares?"

Even if this was true, does it really matter? Shouldn't we just enjoy using the operating system rather than constantly bickering over how popular it is or is not?

In the moment you are right.

For the long term Linux needs perceived market penetration for hardware vendors to take notice and create drivers.

[SonicSteve]

Who started this Poll? I do not remember starting the Poll. I do not do Polls.

Rich


Someone merged the thread with another "netbook" thread even though the they were really not that similar. I hate when young threads are merged. They have similar themes but very different conversation.

Anyway the other thread must have started with a poll.

[gnomeuser]

Just wondering, do you have a source for that ?
I can't find any announcements yet, and I'm just interested to know what brands and types would be available for which price.

ARM announced that they had vendors ready with products circa June (so I apologize for the misstatement, a slip of the memory), the price points depending on configuration is expected to be 149-249$ from the vendors I have heard anything from. The distro being used on the demo models is Ubuntu Jaunty, Canonical announced a partnership with ARM to ensure that this version and future version will be working on ARM hardware.

You can get some information here as well as see the prototype hardware.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39617753,00.htm

The reason I consider this important is that the price point is absolutely more right than netbooks right now, the battery life promises to be much better. ARM will be pushing it aggressively.

[speedwell68]

There are lies, damn lies and statistics. I bought my Acer One with Linpus Lite on it and quickly replaced it with Ubuntu. In 3 years my family I have bought 4 Windows PCs and converted them all to Ubuntu. So Microsoft will be counting that as 4 more sales for Windows, but Canonical will only be counting one download as I use the same ISO over and over. In fact that one ISO download is responsible for about 8 individual users on 8 different PCs. So these statistics about MS having a particular market share is just hot air in reality.

[gnomeuser]

I would rather "lose" to windows than have a standard desktop, even if it's still customisable afterwards.

if you had a "standard desktop", you would have no Mint, no Crunchbang, no this, no that, etc, etc.

You'd force Debian to have a GUI pre-installed. Or force Mandriva to move away from KDE or w/e

no, no, and no again.

Let me ease your mind.

This is about hardware vendors being able to ship a slightly customized but still standardized environment by default that fits better with the use cases intended for netbooks and nettops.

Nobody is taking away your chance to install something else, additionally any distro that will support the hardware should be able to throw up an appliance to go on these machines. You do not have to use something you don't like, but vendors will know they can sign deals with anyone they feel comfortable doing support arrangements with and still retain the near identical base experience for their users.

For an average user every netbook should have roughly the same appearance. This helps for tech support, learning interfaces and so on. It also helps to get everything translated to allow for deployment in multiple markets.

For distros it means having a separate netbook spin available like they do for KDE, GNOME and XFCE. It is not radically different, the same base libraries are still in use so think of it like XFCE is to GNOME or the Ubuntu Netbook Remix is to Ubuntu. The idea is not as you paint it to force Mandriva to replace it's default desktop with this, it is to have convince interested distros to carry a separate product that ships this, one that fits better for the intended use cases and the screen size for the deployments.

Think of this as what PackageKit does to package management. It does not take away your existing tools, it does not replace the backend. It lies on top and alongside these to provide common functionality across many platforms which can be depended upon to be present always.

[I-75]

I bought the EEE PC with Xandros, I wiped out Xandros and installed "Easy-Peasy" (Ubuntu 8.10 for Netbooks) and it works great.

[albinootje]

The distro being used on the demo models is Ubuntu Jaunty, Canonical announced a partnership with ARM to ensure that this version and future version will be working on ARM hardware.

You can get some information here as well as see the prototype hardware.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39617753,00.htm


Awesome! Thanks for the information and the web link! :)

[blastus]

The only reason for this are manufacturers, like Asus, who sold out to Microsoft and starting stupid marketing campaigns about how Windows XP was far superior on netbooks than anything else and how the netbook manufacturers followed suit and started offering only Windows XP on them. It has nothing to do with quality. It's about being bought out and the network effect of Windows being used on 90% of computers.

[BXL]

When netbooks first hit the market here they came with both, but stores really marketed them as "small laptops" instead of as a whole new type of machine. So the Linux machines got replaced and the current wave are only available with Windows installed.
Sorry, those are just "small laptops". It was Intel which started to use "netbook" for marketing reasons.



1) Marketing labelling them as small laptops with the same use cases as a regular laptop.
"Marketing" tried to create a new breed of computers since they were afraid that those cheap small laptops would cannibalize the market of not so heavy, oversized and overpowered laptops. For most applications (Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice etc) the Atom is sufficient.


This leads people to expect Windows and all their regular programs.
In Germany there is a saying: the farmer only eats what he knows. It's the same with the average PC user. He only knows Windows (and the regular programs) and that's why he only want to use windows. Even if this user uses OpenOffice, Gimp and Firefox, in 90% of the cases he will stick to Windows because that's the OS and the UI he knows since a couple of years. Don't ask me why, it has nothing to do with logic or which company offers the best OS, it's all about the habit of using Windows.


The lack of a single uniform netbook interface for Linux. I think Xandros did amazing work for the EeePC but everyone seemed to want a piece of the market and that lead to there being tons of different experiences vs. the uniform Windows experience.
Please no uniform Linux! Xandros did a good job, if you haven't used Linux before. I got rid of this ridiculous design (easy mode) and switched to the Full Desktop (Advanced Mode). However, adding new programs or updating existing ones wasn't possible (at least not as I was used to), thus I quickly installed Ubuntu Eee, followed by fluxflux-eee. Both OS offered me a fully usable linux distribution for the 701, providing me with a fully usable laptop which I could use everywhere without needing much space (in a plane the Eee fits perfectly on the small table).


Additionally many Linux vendors who got contracted for also fell into the trap of thinking it was just a small laptop and thus tried to fit a full desktop on there.
A full desktop fits on there, believe me ;-)


The path to winning back market share for Linux here is definitely a FreeDesktop.org project...
Why a uniform desktop project...? And if we have a uniform desktop project, why do we need n+1 distributions? Why not concentrate on an uniform Linux distribution?



...to provide an easy netbook interface that is intended for deployment on any distro and for small screens.
To be honest... the "easy mode" of the Eee PC was ridiculous and this NBR isn't better. Best thing would be a GUI which is similar to Windows and thus makes the migration form one GUI to the other GUI easier.


Next month the ARM based netbooks and nettops will start rolling out. Windows does not run on these (unless you count Windows CE which we should not).
Windows Mobil 6.5 and 7 will run on those "netbooks".


This will give these ARM based netbooks something compelling to ship with
You're talking about Android, right ;)


Another thing to consider is that XP is being EOL'ed, the next generation of netbooks will have to be more powerful to run Vista or wait for Windows 7 and hope the rumours that it will provide a smoother experience are true.
Windows 7 is arriving pretty soon, the beta is already out and is working fine on the current Intel Atoms. I tried 7 beta on my old Pentium M 1400 GHz and it's working fine, even though I only have 512 MB Ram.


Of course there is also Google' Android to content with, it is being marketed for netbooks as well.
Android is just another "variety" of Linux. Are there really plans to use Android as an OS for Netbooks or is it just a rumour like the MacBook Mini with OS X...?

[Swagman]

Poll is bad

You don't purchase linux with netbooks.

[krakk2k]

i wouldnt trust anything microsoft has to say

[albinootje]

Poll is bad

You don't purchase linux with netbooks.

Why not ?
In another thread there was a link saying that Linux costs $3 for OEM pre-installations. :)

[zmjjmz]

Sorry, those are just "small laptops". It was Intel which started to use "netbook" for marketing reasons.

Psion did that first.


A full desktop fits on there, believe me ;-)

I can attest to this, at least if one has good eyes.


Why a uniform desktop project...?

More marketable.




Windows Mobil 6.5 and 7 will run on those "netbooks".

Have you ever used Windows Mobile? It sucks.





Android is just another "variety" of Linux. Are there really plans to use Android as an OS for Netbooks or is it just a rumour like the MacBook Mini with OS X...?

Not a rumour, companies (such as T-Mobile) have officially announced their intentions in this regard

[Methuselah]

Linux did damage in this market.
Microsoft's reaction involved putting an old OS on life support and selling OEM licenses for less than it was used to doing.
Pyrrhic victory?

Either way, the impact of linux on netbooks was felt.
Linux's value, it's utility relative to price, is one of it's strongest weapons.
In markets where linux gets a head-start, Microsoft can compete, if it bleeds a little.
It is clear that really strong alternatives have diluted the value of windows for some applications.
As a customer, a powerful and FREE choice is the ultimate bargaining chip.

How long can Microsoft continue essentially giving away windows in certain markets just to keep Linux from cornering them?
(We have seen this before, not just on netbooks but school computers etc.)
Being free makes you unbeatable in price wars.
Let's see how this act continues to play out.

[Ericyzfr1]

When I first saw this article, I thought it was again BS. But I have been to Best buy and Fry's recently. I saw lots of Netbooks on displays....How many with Linux???? A big ZERO. I think potential buyer have to go out of their way to know they can buy a netbook with Linux as an OS.

[Sinkingships7]

I say, "who cares?"

Even if this was true, does it really matter? Shouldn't we just enjoy using the operating system rather than constantly bickering over how popular it is or is not?

Word.

[Methuselah]

Window's biggest selling point is its ubiquity.
(Though 'Ubiquity' is a pretty awesome feature of Ubuntu too heh)
Microsoft knows this so it will price aggressively when it needs to saturate a market.
The problem is, will it be forced to price aggressively in more and more markets.

One this is sure, for a linux user there are more hardware options available than ever.
I know I'm not weeping over the current position of linux.

[donovan1983]

As others have noted, the more desirable netbook configurations tend to come only with Windows. My Acer Aspire One 10.1" did although Windows quickly drove me up a wall and I was all too glad to get rid of it and rip off all the Windows stickers.

I use this thing as just a small laptop. I wanted something small and inexpensive and this thing is just about perfect for that. It is also very easily upgradeable and I have a 500GB hard drive and a 2GB stick of RAM on its way. It's no speed demon by any measure but is certainly faster than the iBook G4 12" it's replacing and more than adequate for daily use.

I do use the standard version of Ubuntu 9.04 beta on here. The netbook remix just seems a little pointless since I'm using this as a general-purpose computer and not just an appliance. It runs quite well and although it has some quirks it sure is a lot more functional and less frustrating than Windows XP was. All the important stuff just worked out of the box, no installing drivers or fussing with anything. I found out tonight that it has the best support I've seen in any OS for using a phone as a modem. I just plugged in my Sony Ericsson TM506 and clicked a few buttons and it just worked, which impressed me more than a little.

So I count as a sale of a Windows license but it doesn't bother me. I was able to erase most the traces of Windows on here, except for having a Windows key on the keyboard. I also get an easily portable way to show people that Linux is not just a toy, it is a useful, complete operating system that is easy to use and has a lot of useful software available.

[LuisAugusto]

Having 4% of the Netbook market would be a bless, considering the exceptionally poor .7% globally.

I do believe is a real number. 4% is a hell lot for Linux. Also, considering reality, many people didn't buy netbook because they came with Linux. This is normal, specially, since the distro shipped by ASUS is a piece of crap, except for those using Ubuntu (HP and Dell, and those started doing it recently) the rest sucks.

[kestrel1]

Lets face it we can all sit here & bash the likes of M$ & Apple, but when it comes down to it we should use our chosen OS & leave the others to use thiers. I have to use M$ & Apple products for work & they have thier good things.
So lets stop the bashing & get on with our chosen OS.

[BXL]

Isn't it possible to use website statistics to find out how many visitors are using Linux in combination with a resolution of 1024x600 etc.?

@ donovan

I had the same experience, I connected my Nokia E51 with my Eee 701 (Ubuntu 9.04) and it was working out of the box and within a minute I was able to use it as a 3G modem without installing anything. That's what I call "plug'n play" ;)

[aeiah]

im not suprised people returned their linux netbooks and bought windows ones. have you actually used linpus for more than 5 minutes? i used it for 20 minutes and couldnt stand it any longer. its so dumbed down and restricted. a perfectly configured normal linux desktop isnt complicated: there was no need to make a childish interface for it so as not to scare windows users. egh.

[SonicSteve]

im not suprised people returned their linux netbooks and bought windows ones. have you actually used linpus for more than 5 minutes? i used it for 20 minutes and couldnt stand it any longer. its so dumbed down and restricted. a perfectly configured normal linux desktop isnt complicated: there was no need to make a childish interface for it so as not to scare windows users. egh.


Dang do I have to agree 100%. I just checked out the screenshots of that juvenile junk, wow that is really bad. While it might appeal to some kids it is absolutely not appropriate for the mass netbook market. On the hand Ubuntu netbook remix is much better and professional looking. One piece of criticism though, I don't like is the applet called maximus. Having all programs open without the title bar is quite annoying, I know it's supposed to help maximize the small screensize of netbooks, but it really is annoying.

My point of this is that I think Linpus will give many people a very scewed impression of linux, and potentially cause damage. If I recieved a netbook with Linpus you know I'd be replacing it without even booting it. The screenshots alone are enough to make my decision.

[kestrel1]

Isn't it possible to use website statistics to find out how many visitors are using Linux in combination with a resolution of 1024x600 etc.?

@ donovan

I had the same experience, I connected my Nokia E51 with my Eee 701 (Ubuntu 9.04) and it was working out of the box and within a minute I was able to use it as a 3G modem without installing anything. That's what I call "plug'n play" ;)
Yes it is possible. I have a counter on my site & I can get the statistics of the OS that is used along with the resolution & web browser & version etc.

[spoons]

It's Microsoft. Of course they're talking out of their ***, as they're hardly going to say "Our Operating System SUCKS in this area!" And are more likely do do what they are doing here, buggering about with figures. It's a shame all of these weird distros were preferred on netbooks instead of Ubuntu - Something that stays the same is something that people like. Plus, if people are using Ubuntu on their netbook and like it, they won't want to change back to Windows because "It's different". They're also then far more likely to buy a Ubuntu PC because it's what they used before. If Canocial actually put some steam behind pushing Ubuntu onto these portable devices then we'd see a lot more consistency which is what average joe wants.

[aysiu]

Some of what I'm saying may be new, but a lot of it is just a sum-up of points others have already made: Even if what Microsoft says is true, this is a huge coup for Linux. 4% of marketshare for Linux is quite an achievement. The return rates being higher for Linux is something that has been substantiated only by MSI for its Wind netbooks. Both Asus (for the Eee) and Dell (for the Mini 9) have said the return rates for Windows and Linux are equal. Any dissatisfaction with the Linux netbooks comes down to bad marketing, poor implementation, and fear of the unfamiliar. Right now Microsoft has strong-armed its way into netbooks so that even if 96% is true, it's not because of Windows' merits. I'm currently looking at possibly upgrading from an Eee 701 to some newer Linux netbook, and the options are pretty slim right now. XP is everywhere. I found four outdated Linux models on NewEgg and just a couple more outdated models on Amazon. Asus claims to have Linux versions for almost all of its models, but I don't see those actually available for sale anywhere. And I certainly no longer see Linux netbooks in any brick and mortar stores. At this point, until the ARM thing takes off or Windows 7 starts suffering from high prices or an unfamiliar interface, it looks as if XP wins the game.

[SonicSteve]

As others have noted, the more desirable netbook configurations tend to come only with Windows. My Acer Aspire One 10.1" did although Windows quickly drove me up a wall and I was all too glad to get rid of it and rip off all the Windows stickers.
.

I've seen this pricing scheme far too often. While I applaud OEM's like Dell and Acer for offering Linux as a choice the pricing makes it nearly pointless to buy them. It's like they want it to fail. Every time I've looked at a computer sold with Linux it is always inferior hardware to similar computers sold with windows. There has to be some ugly backroom corporate deals causing this, otherwise it just doesn't add up.

[Methuselah]

Nice post Aysiu.

BTW, here's a little suggestion of some of the process involved in getting that 96%:
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/more_evidence_microsoft_tying_up_the_asus_eeepc

Unless you're an OEM that sells no microsoft software at all you'll probably be vulnerable to it to some degree.

I think this is the only reason I care about Microsoft's market share diminishing.
Not because it would make me feel any better about what I use but because the current situation is simply bad for us, bad for the industry, and bad for innovation.

[chris200x9]

just from expierence when netbooks were new I was amazed I saw one with xp all the ones I had seen except that ONE were linux, now I never see linux ones anymore.

[jespdj]

I have a Dell Mini 9.

Dell sells it with Ubuntu or Windows XP, but unfortunately not here in the Netherlands - they only sell the Windows XP version here. So I had no choice but to buy the Windows XP version. I've booted Windows once, and then reformatted and installed Ubuntu 8.10.

Too bad that I made it seem like I wanted XP and paid Microsoft money for it, but I really wanted the Mini 9.

[SonicSteve]

It's obvious what's going on behind the scenes, the trouble is that knowing what's happening is different than knowing what to do about it. I really don't see OEM's standing up to Microsoft until they feel they have an ace up their sleeve. Right now they don't see Linux as enough of an ace. It's about equal options, and having something enough people will want to make your business viable.

Until Linux can render Microsoft irrelevant OEM's have to dance the Microsoft mambo whether they want to or not. I wonder back in the mid 90's when OEM's signed on for Windows 3.1 and 95 that they would become Microsoft pupits?

[kestrel1]

They are all in it to make money & if selling machines with MS makes them more money that is what they will do & who can blame them.
The main consumer for most large computer manufacturers will be the business user & large corporates. Most corporate customers will train staff on MS products, as MS have the market share & training for these products is more widely available.
This is only the way that I see it. I work in education & all of our servers are MS based apart from the web, mail & proxy which are Unix based. Thin clients, although running Windows server on the surface are Linux based units.