New EU directive - ISP's now to store data

[Gryphon-ni]

News article here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7985339.stm):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7985339.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7985339.stm)

Hope this is a suitable section of the forums to post this. Would love to here the ubuntu communities take on this...

[steeleyuk]

It seems to be the way these days, especially for us in the UK, slap the word terrorism on any law we can think of...

[Gryphon-ni]

I actually think its counter productive.

Those who do have something to hide will now take much more precautions over the coming years. These people will end up doing a much more professional job now due their heightened sense of awareness, thus eventually making it much more difficult for the authorities to track people they have real honest concerns over.

Its the same thing as when the government taxes a commodity into the black market.

One big sigh......

[koshatnik]

Its like the people in the UK who were in uproar over Google Street View, claiming it is an invasion of their privacy, when the average Brit during the course of a day is caught upto 300 times on camera.

But thats ok, obviously.

Yet more civil liberties eroded with this latest piece of brick like legislation.

[t0p]

It wouldn't surprise me if the UK government came up with this. They're constantly coming up with new ways to destroy our "rights" and "freedoms". But the EU?!! Heck...

Here in Britain, we look to Europe and its international courts to slow down the erosion of liberty. But now it looks like we're screwed.

[steeleyuk]

It was probably one of wacky Jacqui's ideas.

[Kareeser]

I actually think its counter productive.

Those who do have something to hide will now take much more precautions over the coming years. These people will end up doing a much more professional job now due their heightened sense of awareness, thus eventually making it much more difficult for the authorities to track people they have real honest concerns over.

Its the same thing as when the government taxes a commodity into the black market.

One big sigh......

I don't support the OP's linked news article, but your logic doesn't make sense...

You're saying that combating terrorism with heightened security will only cause evildoers to try harder to conceal their work...

So, what do you propose, then? That we all lie down in the streets and wait for the terrorists to step into the daylight?

Give me a break.

[Methuselah]

Doesn't anyone think that maybe the 'terrorist threat' benefits governments because they are able to convince panicked citizens to accept more and more regimentation and intrusion?

"An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland."

-A former German Fuehrer and Reichskanzler

[swoll1980]

Its the same thing as when the government taxes a commodity into the black market.

One big sigh......

Speaking of which, the US government added a tax to tobacco last week that added $16 to a 6oz bag of tobacco. Driving the price from $6 to $22 overnight! That's freaking insane!

[Gryphon-ni]

You're saying that combating terrorism with heightened security will only cause evildoers to try harder to conceal their work...

Ermm no that's not what I am saying, because this isn't heightened security.

What I am saying is that putting blanket laws in place across the entire continent, which specify what data is accessible and how authorities can obtain it will not improve the security position. It actually has the possibility to do the exact opposite.

It has been proven time and time again throughout the course of history with various laws that have either tried to prohibit a behaviour or reduce activities in certain areas of society.


So, what do you propose, then? That we all lie down in the streets and wait for the terrorists to step into the daylight?

That's very presumptuous of you to think that's what I would suggest we do, but then again you know nothing about me.




Give me a break.

Charming!

I am prepared to debate things with anyone, am prepared to have people persuade me that I am wrong, or prove a line of thought to be unwise . But you seem to want to post in what can only be translated as a condescending and ultimately rude tone.

[Kingsley]

Speaking of which, the US government added a tax to tobacco last week that added $16 to a 6oz bag of tobacco. Driving the price from $6 to $22 overnight! That's freaking insane!
My roommate was in for a big surprise a few days ago when he bought a carton of Marlboros for $42, instead of the usual $25. That kinda sucks, since his addiction has really elevated this year.

[mips]

It actually has the possibility to do the exact opposite.

It has been proven time and time again throughout the course of history with various laws that have either tried to prohibit a behaviour or reduce activities in certain areas of society.


One that immediately comes to mind is that law that identifies pedophiles (that served their time) to the community. What essentially happens is they get completely shunned by society, can't get work etc and then go underground and for all intense purposes dissapear. The police have a hard time keeping track of them and their activities.

This is just one example, the first that came to mind seeing I watched a documentary on it the other day.

[Nevon]

The same crap is going on in Sweden. Recently two new laws passed. One giving the military authority to monitor all communication that passes through Sweden. The other one giving private companies authority to conduct private investigation and monitoring the communication of anyone who is suspected of sharing copyrighted material.

What is going on? I thought the state was supposed to be there for the public as a service, not a dictator. :(

[zekopeko]

One that immediately comes to mind is that law that identifies pedophiles (that served their time) to the community. What essentially happens is they get completely shunned by society, can't get work etc and then go underground and for all intense purposes dissapear. The police have a hard time keeping track of them and their activities.

This is just one example, the first that came to mind seeing I watched a documentary on it the other day.

child pornography is being used as another venue to erode the civil liberties and free access to information.

blocking sites is an ineffective tactic thats just gonna do more harm to ones liberty then it will to stop child abusers.

the whole point of western law systems is that if you are convicted of a crime and serve your time you shouldn't be shunned for the rest of your life. if you are going to destroy somebodies life in that way why not put them behind bars for life and be done with it?

[bakedbeans4life]

Has any sovereign nation in Europe benefited from any EU directive?

It's almost as if they think up these ridicules uses of bureaucracy and red tape just to justify their existence. Was that a rhetorical question?

[monkeyKata]

Doesn't anyone think that maybe the 'terrorist threat' benefits governments because they are able to convince panicked citizens to accept more and more regimentation and intrusion?



Exactly. Thank you. The terrorist threat is BS. Governments are the ones doing terrorist acts.

[MikeTheC]

The same crap is going on in Sweden. Recently two new laws passed. One giving the military authority to monitor all communication that passes through Sweden. The other one giving private companies authority to conduct private investigation and monitoring the communication of anyone who is suspected of sharing copyrighted material.

What is going on? I thought the state was supposed to be there for the public as a service, not a dictator. :(

FYI: Google Maps: Yakima, WA Eschelon facility (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=46%C2%B040%2755.03%22N+120%C2%B021%2725.37%22W&ie=UTF8&ll=46.68195,-120.357049&spn=0.010938,0.027895&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr)

[LookTJ]

Just a question, what are the chances of the "leaders" of the world repeating history, that is, dictatorship?

[MikeTheC]

Just a question, what are the chances of the "leaders" of the world repeating history, that is, dictatorship?

Well, if you follow the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica, you should know the answer to that...

"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again..."

History only keeps repeating itself because we keep refusing to learn from it.

[LookTJ]

Well, if you follow the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica, you should know the answer to that...

"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again..."

History only keeps repeating itself because we keep refusing to learn from it.
That's true in all ways. Humanity will never learn because they will not think about the past mistakes from many and even their own. We should think and improve on what we as humans have done in the past.