Intense Frustration

[renier]

I am very excited about the open-source concept and understand the concept collaboration by the community and that contribution by users are essential, but it seems as if there is a fundamental flaw somewhere in the leadership of / focus that the open source community is taking. There is way too little emphasis on making it easy for the new user, a vital source of growth, to get started and at least get him to a point where he can make a contribution. I can for the life of me not understand why there is so little effort being made in order to make it easier for users to use their flash disks for data transfer for instance.

Documentation is also very cryptic and generally written for experts. I for one typically do not like to get a list of commands as as suggestion to solving a problem with no explanation as to why they could potentially work. This is an area where I would like to focus if I am ever able to get myself up to speed in Linux.

[az]

" there is a fundamental flaw somewhere in the leadership of / focus that the open source community is taking."

It is what it is. It is driven by it's needs. If you have a need that someone else has not fulfilled, complaining about it is not going to do much.

"There is way too little emphasis on making it easy for the new user, a vital source of growth, to get started and at least get him to a point where he can make a contribution. I can for the life of me not understand why there is so little effort being made in order to make it easier for users to use their flash disks for data transfer for instance. "

You are new to all of this, aren't you? You should have seen how hard it was two years ago. You could stop wasting your time and just ask a question about your specific issue. this is how problem get solved.

"Documentation is also very cryptic and generally written for experts. I for one typically do not like to get a list of commands as as suggestion to solving a problem with no explanation as to why they could potentially work. This is an area where I would like to focus if I am ever able to get myself up to speed in Linux."

Commands are how things work. What _do_ you want?
Type
man (and command someone suggested)

It give you a manpage (manual) about the command.

If I sound grumpy it is because I wish people would fix the problems they find instead of whining about them. Like I said. It is what it is. There is no Master Plan that is badly designed. You are part of a comunity, that's all. Communities do not work like the marketplace.

[tgecho]

I understand your complaints, and to a point I agree with you - to a point. Up till recently Linux has been developed to "do stuff" (precise technical term). Ease of use has not been a priority.

It's kind of ironic that you should post here, as Ubuntu has been the best example I've seen of a usable Linux distro. Sure, there's still a long way to go, but this is the first distro that seems to be on the right track when it comes to usability.

I'm sure it'll only get better.

[machiner]

I am very excited about the open-source concept and understand the concept collaboration by the community and that contribution by users are essential, but it seems as if there is a fundamental flaw somewhere in the leadership of / focus that the open source community is taking. There is way too little emphasis on making it easy for the new user, a vital source of growth, to get started and at least get him to a point where he can make a contribution. I can for the life of me not understand why there is so little effort being made in order to make it easier for users to use their flash disks for data transfer for instance.

Documentation is also very cryptic and generally written for experts. I for one typically do not like to get a list of commands as as suggestion to solving a problem with no explanation as to why they could potentially work. This is an area where I would like to focus if I am ever able to get myself up to speed in Linux.

So - what do you want to do?

Sure, documentation is written for experts. It takes about 3 weeks to become qualified to be an expert. It's an overused term. You can read? You can type?
You can DO? You're on your way.

In the community, what's an expert? Someone that focuses on one thing and cannot see the forest for the trees.

No expert.

Upon installing Ubuntu you have an OS at your disposal that is capable of many wonderful things. Things that you want to do just work and it's no sweat to increase your functionality.

Whiners need not apply. Nor with those other operating systems. A computer is not a pocket watch...man - get a grip.

And I don't just hoist these comments your way - you are among a gigantic community of computer users that keep the entire "home" industry down.

Have you any idea the process to "dumb it down" Do you raelize the effort to further customise programming and platforms just to make the most $$ to appeal to the "lowest common denominator". Well, your community got rooked of some $$ when y'all bought your computers.

INstall your OS - poke around. Seek to do things. If something is supposed to, or you are under the impression of the "supposed to" aspect - work and it doesn't - you dance your shabby typing fingers accross that keynoard of yours, typing:

http://www.ubuntuforums.org

Then you phrase your:
concern
question
suggestion
praise

you don't come here with the manners of a worm squiggling in on the worst-method-to-attract-attention... EVER!

Phew. I'm good. Thanks -- phew.

Now...phrase your:
concern
question
suggestion
praise..

or beat it.

[jakeslife]

If you dive into Open Source software and operating systems without learning about them as much as you can first, it will be hard. It will still be hard wth as much bookwork as you do. Unless you go into it with an open mind and willingness to learn, *nix isn' for you.

Ubuntu has a great reputation for helping others in need who use Ubuntu. Hell, there are even posts on here asking for help with other distros, and people respond to them and help them as well.

I would have to say that my entire knowledge of Linux is general (and other OS software) is from forums. Browse through forums before you choose a product and check out the community. Then become an active member in the forums. Last month when I first heard of Ubuntu that's what I did, so that when I installed it I knew what to expect. When certain things happened, I knew what to do. And now I'm helping others figure that out as well.

Oh, and if you think learning an operating system is difficult, try learning a programming language from the ground up on your own. Forums are your friend. :-)

And, as always, ask smart. http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

[deception]

If someone is smart enough to install an operating system, they're smart enough to find the way to learn how to use it. However it operates.

[princemackenzie]

The parent of this thread reeks of a troll to me... :-&

[MaZiNgA]

renier, I agree 100% with you but I am quite sure this will change in, say no more, 5 years. I've been into the "linux" thing for the past 2 years and if you could only see how rapidly things have evolved you'd know what I mean...
Yet I still think we should reconsider the main goals of desktop linux. I'd like to see a computer work as easy as a frigde or an oven..!

[BWF89]

There is way too little emphasis on making it easy for the new user

They allready did, it's called Linspire (http://www.linspire.com/), and it's the first Linux distro designed with the end-user in mind. It's so simple I could give it to my mom (a techno-illiterate) and she'd probably be downloading & installing packages within a half hour...

[Lynx]

I have been using Linux for almost six months now. I started knowing nothing and just installed and poked around with it (this was when I was using suse). I didn't know how to compile source, I did not know what an RPM was, I did not know how to use the package manager, I didn't know what a package manager was... I could go on and on. "What's a terminal?" I read the readme for every program that I didn't know, I went on forums and browsed communities just picking up bits and pieces. I poked around in the operating system until I found stuff out, (you have no idea how long it took me to get a functional DVD player). This is how you learn (really learn) an operating system... I know Linux now far better than I ever knew my windows or mac machines and I am far better off for it and I can't wait to learn even more (for I have just entered the rabbit hole). It takes work but in the end it is worth it (after all, everything on this computer was completely and totally free). Making things too easy breeds incompetence and lazyness. The system we have now causes the dumbest user to be better versed in the operating system than they ever had to be in windows or mac and this perks intrest in further steps such as lending time or money to development and more. The system is not broken.

[crane]

I have been using Linux for almost six months now. I started knowing nothing and just installed and poked around with it (this was when I was using suse). I didn't know how to compile source, I did not know what an RPM was, I did not know how to use the package manager, I didn't know what a package manager was... I could go on and on. "What's a terminal?" I read the readme for every program that I didn't know, I went on forums and browsed communities just picking up bits and pieces. I poked around in the operating system until I found stuff out, (you have no idea how long it took me to get a functional DVD player). This is how you learn (really learn) an operating system... I know Linux now far better than I ever knew my windows or mac machines and I am far better off for it and I can't wait to learn even more (for I have just entered the rabbit hole). It takes work but in the end it is worth it (after all, everything on this computer was completely and totally free). Making things too easy breeds incompetence and lazyness. The system we have now causes the dumbest user to be better versed in the operating system than they ever had to be in windows or mac and this perks intrest in further steps such as lending time or money to development and more. The system is not broken.

I was the same way when I started out. I read where I needed to enter a command to fix my problem.... Then I had to find out where to enter the command :mrgreen:

I don't look at linux as a free OS. Yes it has no cost to down load an iso file burn it and install it. But Was it free? Money wise, yes. Time wise no. Linux = Read.

I agree with what you said about knowing the system now. After diving into linux I now understand how my computer work. Where as with windows you just learn "this is how windows work" not how the actual PC works.

I am now proud to say, I am addicted to linux. If a program has to run in windows I don't run it.

Is linux ready for the desktop user? Yes, I am a desktop user :D
Linux is not ready or really in need of the mindless user.

[Buffalo Soldier]

Making things too easy breeds incompetence and lazyness. The system we have now causes the dumbest user to be better versed in the operating system than they ever had to be in windows or mac and this perks intrest in further steps such as lending time or money to development and more. The system is not broken.

I believe there is such thing as too easy. Sometimes, I say again sometimes by making things too easy to use can make the system vulnerable (by using too many automatic configuration, auto-install, hidden settings / too many settings and etc.).

When I first use Linux I hard to learn new way of do things. It is uncomfortable at first (few weeks). But for me it is a tiny small price to pay for something that is stable and secure.

Not all people have the same "uncomfortable-ness threshold". But then again no one is forcing me or anyone to use linux or to impose only one way of doing things in linux. That freedom to choose is what I like the most about linux.

[BWF89]

Well, when I get my own partition or computer I'll try doing it the hard way for a couple of weeks...

[wallijonn]

There is way too little emphasis on making it easy for the new user... Documentation is ... an area where I would like to focus [on] in Linux.

Then you'll want to take some Linux courses at your local school. Take a lot of notes, get to really know Open Office and create a verbose MAN Pages manual. Don't forget to include a lot of examples.

And if you're really good, you'll make an input window where a command can be input and a complete explanation is typed out.

Or better yet, as a Root Terminal is working it is outputting very verbose explanations on another screen with copies of the commands being executed.

So hurry up and get to work.

[BWF89]

Then you'll want to take some Linux courses at your local school. Take a lot of notes, get to really know Open Office and create a verbose MAN Pages manual. Don't forget to include a lot of examples.
Do most community colleges have Linux courses?

Do you know of any Linux computer camps or places you can go to learn Linux?

[Lynx]

I
I don't look at linux as a free OS. Yes it has no cost to down load an iso file burn it and install it. But Was it free? Money wise, yes. Time wise no. Linux = Read.
.

I meant monetarily free. Of course Linux is the product of an amazingly dedicated community. Their work benefits us and increasingly stimulates a no longer dead marketplace of software by providing competition against the massive software developer Micro$oft. I hope to one day become a member of this developer community and give back a small portion of what has been given. It is an honor and a privalige for us to be a part of this community. Just a bit of encouragement there renier, this community is amazing and worth the effort it takes to learn the ins and outs of the system.

[wallijonn]

Do most community colleges have Linux courses?

Do you know of any Linux computer camps or places you can go to learn Linux?

There's an old saying, "If you want to learn Linux, install Slackware".

Do a google for 'Linux tutorial'. You should find many places that teach Linux.

http://www.mozillaquest.com/indexes/Linux4Windows_index.html
http://www.linux-tutorial.info/modules.php?name=Tutorial&pageid=224

Those two should get you started.

Your local Community College should have courses, as your local night high school should have courses, as should your local library (the "Learn Linux in 24 hour books), and Ebay (Linux tutorials on CDs).

Poke around a lot in Warty, Blow it up a few times. Re-install often. Before you know it you should know where every goes and why.

[Rancoras]

Please don't feed the trolls....

[BWF89]

Thanks for the tutorials! I'm learning about what the files mean!

[jsgotangco]

How one addresses frustration determines possible outcome.

I've been frustrated at Linux since Red Hat 5 but it didn't stop me from learning...everytime a new distro comes out, I try to test it out and learn from it. Because of that experience, any distro I use now, I'm confident of using it and maxing out its potential. I see good potential in Ubuntu that's why I'm using it now...

But i do have frustrations over it, but the community has been fantastic in helping each other out so I'm confident I'll get to fix the problems I encounter with this distro.

[az]

"The parent of this thread reeks of a troll to me..."

There is a policy about being nice to people, isn't there?



"Please don't feed the trolls...."

I guess there isn't.