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View Full Version : Maybe they should try Linux



jimbob
April 3rd, 2009, 01:18 PM
http://www.tuaw.com/2009/04/02/texas-bans-microsoft-vista-from-government-use/

Johnsie
April 3rd, 2009, 01:22 PM
Vista isn't anywhere near as bad as mac and Linux fanboys make it out to be. Yes, it had teething troubles and bugs, just like any other operating system. Check the launchpad bug directory if you don't believe me. People who use other operating systems tend to do everything they can to speak out against 'the evil microsoft' because they want to try and score cheap points amongst their own community. It's sad that badmouthing competing operating systems is the main way people try to say theirs is better. Most operating systems have good an bad points.

0per4t0r
April 3rd, 2009, 01:25 PM
They should really try linux, but no one really recognizes linux for how awesome it really is. Vista's okay, but XP is better.

doas777
April 3rd, 2009, 01:29 PM
Vista isn't anywhere near as bad as mac and Linux fanboys make it out to be. Yes, it had teething troubles and bugs, just like any other operating system. Check the launchpad bug directory if you don't believe me. People who use other operating systems tend to do everything they can to speak out against 'the evil microsoft' because they want to try and score cheap points amongst their own community. It's sad that badmouthing competing operating systems is the main way people try to say theirs is better. Most operating systems have good an bad points.

in this case, I speak not of the evils of Microsoft, but the evils of Texas. After the last 8 years, they owe us...

JohnFH
April 3rd, 2009, 01:39 PM
Vista isn't anywhere near as bad as mac and Linux fanboys make it out to be. Yes, it had teething troubles and bugs, just like any other operating system. Check the launchpad bug directory if you don't believe me. People who use other operating systems tend to do everything they can to speak out against 'the evil microsoft' because they want to try and score cheap points amongst their own community. It's sad that badmouthing competing operating systems is the main way people try to say theirs is better. Most operating systems have good an bad points.

I sort of agree with the general sentiment. However sitting in front of a Windows machine I find to be frustrating at times whereas on Ubuntu I enjoy using the computer. Anyway the thing that annoys me about Window bashing is the name calling. M$, Windoze, Window$, Micro$oft - all so childish. Also Apple as a company have far worse business practices than Microsoft yet Microsoft gets most of the stick and Apple get an easy time of it.

Skripka
April 3rd, 2009, 02:03 PM
I sort of agree with the general sentiment. However sitting in front of a Windows machine I find to be frustrating at times whereas on Ubuntu I enjoy using the computer. Anyway the thing that annoys me about Window bashing is the name calling. M$, Windoze, Window$, Micro$oft - all so childish. Also Apple as a company have far worse business practices than Microsoft yet Microsoft gets most of the stick and Apple get an easy time of it.

In all honesty-banning Vista at this point is meaningless grandstanding. If Microsfoft keeps to their stated table, Windows7 will be out in less than a year anyway. Also MOST IT units at state institutions and businesses LONG AGO declared they would wait to upgrade XP until Windows7.

Pogeymanz
April 3rd, 2009, 04:21 PM
Also Apple as a company have far worse business practices than Microsoft yet Microsoft gets most of the stick and Apple get an easy time of it.

If it makes you feel any better, I hate Apple at least as much as I hate Microsoft.

I can't help it. They kill innovation- and I hate that. I don't care that 'any business would do the same thing in their shoes.' Not to mention how many illegal things Microsoft has done and they're still on top. What kind of message is that? I don't personally know how much Apple has broken the law, but I will still never buy an Apple product.

Also, another point I'd like to make just to hear myself type, is that I don't hate Windows. I hate Microsoft. There is a difference. Vista is better than XP assuming your machine can handle it. Honestly I don't even know how much memory it eats when you turn off Aero, but I bet it's still plenty. But at least it's a little more secure and it would be pretty stable in time, but now they're rushing out Windows 7, so Vista will just be done before being finalized. XP is not very good- it's just that people are used to it.

MikeTheC
April 3rd, 2009, 05:22 PM
I can't help it. They kill innovation- and I hate that.

orly?

Cleaning up and completing the GUI concept;
Introduction and popularization of the GUI for general public;
Introduction of 3 1/2" floppy drives for computers;
Introduction of the mouse for the general public;
Standardizing the control interface between applications;
Making a high-res (well, 72 dpi anyhow) graphical interface standard;
Introducing the first "I don't have to wire my own circuit board and build a box" computer product;
Bundling a programming language into on-board ROM;
Including built-in support for LANs, file sharing and printer sharing;
Releasing a common interface bus for keyboards, mice, et al;
Including SCSI as a standard interface;
Speech synthesis on a "regular" computer;
First company to fully adopt and utilize USB;
First company to use FireWire...

This does go on. So, you mind telling us how Apple has not driven innovation?

wolfen69
April 3rd, 2009, 05:28 PM
If it makes you feel any better, I hate Apple at least as much as I hate Microsoft.

I can't help it. They kill innovation- and I hate that. I don't care that 'any business would do the same thing in their shoes.' Not to mention how many illegal things Microsoft has done and they're still on top. What kind of message is that? I don't personally know how much Apple has broken the law, but I will still never buy an Apple product.


agreed.

toupeiro
April 3rd, 2009, 05:42 PM
orly?

Cleaning up and completing the GUI concept;
Introduction and popularization of the GUI for general public;
Introduction of 3 1/2" floppy drives for computers;
Introduction of the mouse for the general public;
Standardizing the control interface between applications;
Making a high-res (well, 72 dpi anyhow) graphical interface standard;
Introducing the first "I don't have to wire my own circuit board and build a box" computer product;
Bundling a programming language into on-board ROM;
Including built-in support for LANs, file sharing and printer sharing;
Releasing a common interface bus for keyboards, mice, et al;
Including SCSI as a standard interface;
Speech synthesis on a "regular" computer;
First company to fully adopt and utilize USB;
First company to use FireWire...

This does go on. So, you mind telling us how Apple has not driven innovation?

ooh! ooh!

1) COMPLETE conjecture!
2) Xerox did this with a GUI.
3) IBM did this.
4) Xerox did this.
5) vague.
6) Commodore did this first
7) Tandy did this.
8) Commodore / Amiga
9) This CERTAINLY wasn't Mac! I would contest that UNIX beat Microsoft but not for the general masses.
10) IBM. Mac took Years to standardise.
11) (before I go too much further, you realize MS didn't make computers, right) Amiga did this
12) Commodore did this
13) IBM w/ OS/2 did this, as did late model Amiga's. Windows NT 4.0 did not support USB.
14) Big deal.. Firewire was expensive, very length limited, and quickly surpassed. Apple invented it.

So far, all this does is convince me both MS and Apple are very good at brainwashing.

MikeTheC
April 3rd, 2009, 11:33 PM
1. So far, all this does is convince me both MS and Apple are very good at brainwashing.

Cleaning up and completing the GUI concept;

COMPLETE conjecture!

No it isn't. XEROX PARC's UI was not complete, was not a finished product, was not a stable product, etc. Apple licensed it and took the ideas and turned them into a finished, polished, stable and functional end product.




2. Introduction and popularization of the GUI for general public;

Xerox did this with a GUI.

No they didn't. Xerox PARC invented the GUI (or at least put together a coherent and complete concept) but they did not put it into production. It was not being made into a product that was being sold to anyone. In fact, as a practical matter, the only two real customers Xerox ever had for the PARC interface were Apple and Microsoft.




3. Introduction of 3 1/2" floppy drives for computers;

IBM did this.

True, they first did it with their PS/2 systems. Apple beat them to the punch by doing it first in 1984 on the Mac 128.




4. Introduction of the mouse for the general public;

Xerox did this.

No they didn't. Xerox's PARC group didn't introduce any of this stuff to "the general public". Again, they were the first ones to actually put all of these different things together, but they did not produce a commercial product and sell it to anyone.




5. Standardizing the control interface between applications;

vague.

Prior to this point, not only were all programs CLI-only, they didn't use the same controls to accomplish the same task. One program might use ALT + E to save a file, another might use CTRL + SHIFT + F11. Or whatever. Apple was the first consumer computer maker to unify how commands were accomplished, from having common menus for various commands to using standardized keyboard shortcuts to access those commands.




6. Making a high-res (well, 72 dpi anyhow) graphical interface standard;

Commodore did this first

Um, no they didn't. Commodore had a very low resolution (although it was color) display system. Apple introduced 72 dpi (though it was 1-bit) in 1983 on the Lisa, and maintained it on the introduction of the Mac 128. In fact, except for adding color (2-, 4-, 8-, 16- and 32-bit, etc.), the industry standard for years has been 72 dpi for display. It's only been in the past few years that it's gone up at all.




7. Introducing the first "I don't have to wire my own circuit board and build a box" computer product;

Tandy did this.

A bit of spot research reveals Apple, Tandy and Commodore released non-kit computers the same year, 1977. Apple and Commodore were first to market in June, and Tandy followed in August. I won't concede the point that Apple was an innovator in this area, but I will not argue the dates since they obviously were all developed around the same time, and at this point debating over the difference of a month is little more than splitting hairs.




8. Bundling a programming language into on-board ROM;

Commodore / Amiga

Yeah, so? Amiga came out after the Apple II, the IIe and the IIc, all of which had Applesoft Basic.




9. Including built-in support for LANs, file sharing and printer sharing;

This CERTAINLY wasn't Mac! I would contest that UNIX beat Microsoft but not for the general masses.

No computer prior to the Mac that was a "regular, normal PC" (or, if you prefer, a "microcomputer") had built-in networking. In fact, no other computer period had it afterward for years. You can't really count minicomputers nor mainframes, etc., simply because they weren't for general public consumption and largely were all custom-rig systems (especially at the time). Please note I didn't say they were the first systems that were networkable. Systems used during the days of the ARPAnet could be networked, but those really aren't germain to this discussion, either.




10. Releasing a common interface bus for keyboards, mice, et al;

IBM. Mac took Years to standardise.

Wrong. ADB: September, 1986. PS/2: April, 1987. And even then, PS/2 did not support the verisimilitude of types of devices which ADB did.




11. Including SCSI as a standard interface;

(before I go too much further, you realize MS didn't make computers, right) Amiga did this

Yeah, on certain versions of the Amiga 2000 IIRC, but not all of them. My point is that SCSI became an across-the-board standard interface on every model of Mac until 1998. SCSI's use and implementation on other manufacturers' systems was limited at best, and was never a part of the XT/AT/ATX/etc. motherboard designs which have been used on the de-facto "PC platform".




12. Speech synthesis on a "regular" computer;

Commodore did this

After Apple did. Apple had TTS in time for the Macintosh's introduction in 1984. Now, it's true it really didn't come into public access until the late 1980s/early 1990s, but Apple had it.




13. First company to fully adopt and utilize USB;

IBM w/ OS/2 did this, as did late model Amiga's. Windows NT 4.0 did not support USB.

Just did some spot research on this. It appears that OS/2 Warp 3 was the first of the OS/2 series to support USB. It's hard to track down an exact release date, but OS/2 Warp 4 came out in 1996, so presumably Warp 3 must have predated that by perhaps a year. However, by that time, OS/2 was a nearly entirely niche business OS which not that long after was so completely sidelined that it's all but dead. Macs and Mac OS remained in circulation and mainstream long enough for there to be USB devices to be had (in any practical sense) and, by the time Microsoft started supporting USB (which is ironic as heck, actually, since they were part of the industry consortium which invented USB in the first place), Apple had already not just been supporting USB for a year, but had been selling USB devices for a year (keyboards and mice).

And what's really ironic is that Apple didn't participate in USB's creation, was not a part of the consortium, produced a competing technology, and they still got it on the motherboards and in the OS before their competition did. (Yes, technically, I know USB started appearing on ATX mobos in 1995, but really... you couldn't support it in software as the user, so what good did having the port really do? Anyhow...)




14. First company to use FireWire...

Big deal.. Firewire was expensive, very length limited, and quickly surpassed. Apple invented it.

It may have been expensive, but it was not quickly surpassed. In fact, it wasn't surpassed at all until USB 2, and frankly USB is so dependent on the host system that it wasn't until far later that you had performance parity with FireWire. I will grant you that, in the bigger picture, FireWire has lost the war to USB (even Apple has basically admitted as much), but this was not overnight, and was not necessarily even a foregone conclusion. It took the Mac and Windows 98 to really get the ball rolling with USB in the first place. Had that not happened, we would probably not now be seeing USB2. I mean, clearly, there's no guarantees of that, but I'm certain someone else would have tried to come up with their own competing technology.