Microsoft is coming to school laptops in NSW :-(

[tr333]

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/100064,nsw-school-students-spared-vista-netbooks.aspx

I am quite unhappy that my tax dollars are being spent on helping Microsoft keep its monopoly hold over the computer software industry. I really don't think students require anything more than is provided by OpenOffice.org for writing school assignments, or doing the occasional presentation. Even if the laptops still had Windows on them, there isn't any real reason to pay $$$ extra for Microsoft Office.

How is Bug #1 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1) supposed to get fixed if things like this happen?

Does anyone here have a sample complaint letter that I could use to write to my local state MP about this?

[JackieChan]

What's so bad about Windows 7? I think it's great for the schools. If only schools would start using Open Office instead of Microsoft Office though....

[itsStephen]

Same thing pretty much as what is happening in Tasmania.

Simple answer - the schools don't know there's anything else. My IT teacher has a vague idea of what Linux is ("free Windows with no license" - actually what he said)

[wrtpeeps]

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/100064,nsw-school-students-spared-vista-netbooks.aspx

I am quite unhappy that my tax dollars are being spent on helping Microsoft keep its monopoly hold over the computer software industry. I really don't think students require anything more than is provided by OpenOffice.org for writing school assignments, or doing the occasional presentation. Even if the laptops still had Windows on them, there isn't any real reason to pay $$$ extra for Microsoft Office.

How is Bug #1 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1) supposed to get fixed if things like this happen?

Does anyone here have a sample complaint letter that I could use to write to my local state MP about this?

Oh right, so you'd like to take away the choice and just stop kids from using Office. More so, you'd be more than happy for there to be an openoffice monopoly on such software for students.

Yes, that does make a lot of sense right enough. :rolleyes:

[sertse]

Existing thread: (It still on the front page...)

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1113956

Interesting you focused on MS etc, while I mainly noticed the hardware...

[Mehall]

I actually approve of this, because then the govn'ments can all argue no need for Ballmers Bailout. ;)

[GepettoBR]

Oh right, so you'd like to take away the choice and just stop kids from using Office. More so, you'd be more than happy for there to be an openoffice monopoly on such software for students.

Yes, that does make a lot of sense right enough. :rolleyes:

He didn't say that. You're reading too much into the post.

If I understood OP correctly, his main concern is with the public funding being burnt on software licenses when there's a sufficiently equipped, free alternative to MS Office available. That money could be better spent on various other things, like infrastructure, maintenance, hiring more competent teachers and staff, buying more books for the school libraries, etc.

Kids still have the choice of purchasing and installing MS Office in this scenario. It's just a matter of what comes pre-installed and how that affects the budget.

[Giant Speck]

There's something I don't agree with in Bug 1's "What should happen" section:

1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ubuntu.
I don't understand the insistence that open-source software should crush proprietary software into nonexistence. There is a lot of really good proprietary software out there.

[GepettoBR]

There's something I don't agree with in Bug 1's "What should happen" section:

1. A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software like Ubuntu.
I don't understand the insistence that open-source software should crush proprietary software into nonexistence. There is a lot of really good proprietary software out there.

I don't see the correlation. A majority can be as little a 50%+1. Windows has over 90% of the market share for operating systems, but OS X, GNU/Linux, BSD and Solaris haven't been crushed. Not only that, but new OSes are popping up as well, like Haiku and ReactOS.

I agree that there are many very good proprietary programs out there. In many fields, they are years ahead of their opensource counterparts. I don't believe that cutting their market share would kill them. Competition always stimulates growth, everyone would win.

[pt123]

Not surprising the NSW Labor government is one of the most corrupt state governments in Australia.

[etnlIcarus]

Not surprising the NSW Labor government is one of the most corrupt state governments in Australia.
State gov'ts are generally pretty dodgy throughout Aust. No real surprise when you consider the authority and rather involved role of the state gov'ts, coupled with the monotonous and inept news media, who only seem to cover federal politics with any comprehensiveness.


As for the general furore over gov'ts going with MS, it's not difficult to understand their political motivations. 'Gov't wastes money', is non-news in this country. 'Gov't cheaps-out on students' or 'Gov't laptop scheme costs parents/schools money because provided software lacks trivial feature X' has far more potential for damage, and that's assuming anyone involved in this project is even aware of the alternatives. You don't need shady closed door deals with big corporations for NSW's gov't to arrive at this decision.

[blastus]

"We're looking forward to rolling out Windows laptops to our schools across NSW and are pleased with Microsoft's innovative and flexible approach to software licensing and support," said Stephen Wilson, CIO of New South Wales Department of Education and Training.

I didn't know software licenses could be innovative. How can I get an innovative software license?

[phantom3113]

As unfortunate as this occurence is, there's really no helping it. In the way that technology has evolved, Windows has become second nature to most people, and that's primarily due to Microsoft's ruthless monopolizing of small companies that posed a threat to them in years past. Basically speaking, Windows is what the majority of people know. If you present them with something they're unfamiliar with, they (normally) get a bit fearful of it, and will look for a way to avoid it (granted, this is concerning most non-tecchie individuals). Getting laptops with Windows preloaded is almost unavoidable in today's market, but it's probably the smartest move. This way, people can use something they're familiar with, and extra time won't be used teaching them something new, even though Ubuntu doesn't require a huge learning curve.


What's so bad about Windows 7? I think it's great for the schools. If only schools would start using Open Office instead of Microsoft Office though....

As good as OpenOffice is, it still has some ways to go. Currently, most documents are done in .docx format and, although OpenOffice can open them and edit them fine, if you save it in the same format (or .doc as I believe is the only option right now), the return trip back to the originator of said document is horrible. For many things, MS Office is usually the better choice, but again, that's only because of how the computer market has formed around the cist known as Microsoft. The way to unseat Microsoft from the market share throne isn't to force other options on the public, but to offer other options in moderation, such as suggesting someone try something new and if they refuse, then so be it. I don't like where Microsoft is in the market but it can't be changed immediately. Finally, I believe that *nix and free software is where it's at today because a few intelligent individuals saw what Microsoft was/[was becoming] and didn't like it, so they made their own new options. Considering so, letting Microsoft continue would likely result in its own eventual downfall.

[tr333]

If you present them with something they're unfamiliar with, they (normally) get a bit fearful of it, and will look for a way to avoid it (granted, this is concerning most non-tecchie individuals). Getting laptops with Windows preloaded is almost unavoidable in today's market, but it's probably the smartest move. This way, people can use something they're familiar with, and extra time won't be used teaching them something new, even though Ubuntu doesn't require a huge learning curve.
I haven't yet noticed large numbers of complaints from people who buy netbooks with linux preinstalled. In 2008, something like 70% of all netbooks were sold with some version of linux preinstalled.



As good as OpenOffice is, it still has some ways to go. Currently, most documents are done in .docx format
Not true. Almost every e-mail that I see sent to a group of people with a docx attachment results in multiple people asking the original sender to resend in doc/pdf format. Not everyone wants to pay for Office2007 when their existing Office2000 or Office2003 does what they need. Once Office2k7-SP2 comes out with ODF support, then there might be a reason to upgrade.

[SomeGuyDude]

95% of the software schools use is Windows, so of course they'll be given Windows PCs. Unless you'd like to spend extra tax money dealing with giving courses on how to use Linux.

Man, can't even have a program to give cheap computers to poor people without people bitching.

Funny thing is that Linux is supposedly about "choice" but when the OLPC and its ilk were Linux-only everyone was all happy, then when a Windows version came out people got all mad.

[3rdalbum]

Man, can't even have a program to give cheap computers to poor people without people bitching.

They are not cheap computers; they are loaded with thousands of dollars worth of software, most of which is totally unnecessary for non-tertiary education. And they are not poor people, they are school students, of whom probably 90% already have a perfectly good computer available to them.

And this is coming from a state government that can ill-afford to buy a set of shoelaces, much less a thousand netbooks.

[tr333]

95% of the software schools use is Windows, so of course they'll be given Windows PCs. Unless you'd like to spend extra tax money dealing with giving courses on how to use Linux.
Training might be required for the non-technical teachers, but I would be incredibly surprised if the students couldn't work out how to use KDE/Gnome/UbuntuNetbookRemix. I would have thought that a large percentage of that software is just Word, Powerpoint, and a web browser.



Funny thing is that Linux is supposedly about "choice" but when the OLPC and its ilk were Linux-only everyone was all happy, then when a Windows version came out people got all mad.

People had valid reasons to get mad about it. There was a technical advantage to using Linux on these devices (open-source software allowing the kids to learn/modify/play with it). The only reason Microsoft had for putting Windows on these devices was to protect its market share and monopoly status around the world. People learning their first computer on a non-Microsoft system would be much less likely to use a Microsoft system in the future, killing the Microsoft monopoly in certain markets. If Microsoft was really about "Choice" then OOXML would have been defined as a proper standard, thus allowing competing software to implement the format correctly.

[etnlIcarus]

95% of the software schools use is Windows, so of course they'll be given Windows PCs. Unless you'd like to spend extra tax money dealing with giving courses on how to use Linux.
The vast majority of teachers are not of the technical generation. They need help to use Windows as it is.

Students just plain don't need any help to use a PC and linux wouldn't change that. Hell, there's probably several better arguments for linux helping students to develop a better understanding of the technology and develop more flexible skills.

[samjh]

They are not cheap computers; they are loaded with thousands of dollars worth of software, most of which is totally unnecessary for non-tertiary education.I doubt the computers are there for just writing assignments and such.

Schools are just trying to get kids familiar with computer software they are most likely to use when they become adults. At this point in time, it's Microsoft Office and Windows that have market dominance, so schools are obliged to provide that software for students to use and gain experience.

Chicken and egg problem. If the world used Linux distros and OpenOffice, then you'll find most schools will have them on their computers. But alas, the world doesn't use Linux distros and OpenOffice.

IMHO, this is why efforts to make Linux more user-friendly, compatible, and standardised is very important, especially in carving up market share in the business sector. If the usage of Linux on business PCs increase, you can bet that Linux usage on home PCs and school computers will increase too. Go Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE!


I didn't know software licenses could be innovative. How can I get an innovative software license?

Buy Microsoft. ;) Irony, eh?

[Giant Speck]

Whatever happened to good old textbooks, notebooks and pencils? :(

[thisllub]

Not surprising the NSW Labor government is one of the most corrupt state governments in Australia.

The NSW government has been in office longer than the Howard government was in office federally and has had only a fraction of the corruption allegations of their federal counterparts. They are actually pretty good there.

If you had said incompetent nobody would have argued with you.

The Microsoft decision would have gone like this.

Committee chairman: "Which project do you want on your resume, the free one or the forty gazillion dollar one?
That's unanimous then. Lunch is on Microsoft."