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View Full Version : Creative Labs Continues To Shaft Linux



wolfen69
March 25th, 2009, 05:15 AM
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzE2Ng

"It has been a while since last mentioning the Creative X-Fi sound cards at Phoronix, but it's not because the Linux support is all nice and working now that Creative open-sourced their X-Fi driver, but rather things have stalled. The X-Fi sound cards still are a sore spot on Linux and there isn't "out of the box" support in major Linux distributions.

First, however, it's important to note how the situation evolved into Creative open-sourcing their binary Sound Blaster X-Fi driver... Back in June of 2006 we shared that Creative was working on an X-Fi Linux driver. Creative hoped to have this driver ready by Q2'07 (even though the first X-Fi sound card shipped in August of 2005). This promised driver would offer full support for ALSA, OpenAL v1.1, and even EAX support.

In the second quarter of 2007, Creative Labs admitted they duped Linux for Windows Vista. Bringing their Creative Sound Blaster series support to Windows Vista required more resources than anticipated, so they in turn devoted less resources to supporting Linux. Their revised ETA put a Creative X-Fi Linux driver out in the third or fourth quarter of 2007, but it would be just a beta driver.

In September of 2007 the Sound Blaster X-Fi driver was finally coming. This driver was in beta form, but it was binary-only and riddled with bugs that put it in more of an alpha state. In fact, the first beta driver didn't even support modern versions of GCC and it only supported Linux x86_64.

A few months later, in February of 2008, open-source support for the Creative X-Fi appeared in 4Front's Open Sound System. This basic Sound Blaster driver came after Creative had supplied some documentation and header files to foster the development of the sbxfi driver, but to most users this is no good considering ALSA is dominantly used by Linux distributions.

In April of last year, Creative tried again at producing a Linux driver, but the driver was still filled with bugs. This time at least it had Linux x86 support and was compatible with GCC 4.x. Needless to say, a year after their Linux beta driver was introduced, it was still in a horrific state.

In early November, they shocked us (and the entire Linux community), by open-sourcing their Sound Blaster X-Fi driver. They put the code out under the GNU GPLv2 that supports the Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic, XtremeGamer, Fatal1ty, Platinum, Elite Pro, and Titanium series. The source-code was in a workable state, though it lacked S/PDIF pass-through support and compatibility with external I/O modules. Since then, they haven't provided any open-source (or binary) driver updates for Linux.

Nearly six months after Creative open-sourced this driver, there still is no Sound Blaster X-Fi driver in the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture. There was a half-baked X-Fi driver for ALSA that was derived from the Open Sound System X-Fi driver and not Creative's open-source driver, but that driver quickly went into an unmaintained state.

Takashi Iwai, the SuSE developer that originally ported the OSS sbxfi driver to ALSA, has now spoken out about Creative Labs, On the ALSA development mailing list, Takashi states that Creative is not interested in communicating with the open-source developers and they have expressed no interest in seeing their open-source driver included upstream. Takashi continues to wait on Creative Labs to discuss the development of their open-source Sound Blaster X-Fi driver.

ALSA 1.0.20 should be coming about relatively soon, but it looks like it will be another development cycle that goes without any support for these newer Creative sound cards. It appears that Creative has basically shoved this code for Linux out the door and does not want to touch it again."


i will refuse to buy any more products from them until they support linux.

woppy71
March 25th, 2009, 05:24 AM
You know, it has never ceased to amaze me how many, many hardware manufacturers don't supply drivers for their kit, or release the driver as open source for all to modify and use. Surely by not doing that, they are cutting out a potentially lucrative section of the market, linux users, who would really like to use their kit, but are unable to do so because of not having available drivers!

C'mon all you hardware manufacturers, if you can't be bothered to code drivers for the linux community, then at least make it easy for the community to do so! The larger the Linux community gets, the larger your potential profits could be....

This situation infuriates me!

FuturePilot
March 25th, 2009, 05:29 AM
That's a shame. I was really happy when I heard they open sourced their driver. Too bad. :( I will definitely be avoiding these cards until they have proper Linux support. I like having sound, thanks.

We bought a computer about a year ago, and it had the choice of one of Creative's X-fi cards or an Intel card. Because of the lack of X-fi Linux support I picked the Intel card.

oldsoundguy
March 25th, 2009, 05:38 AM
Creative not only has issues with the Linux community, they have issues with WINDOWS! I have an XP box with the X-Fi Xtreme Platinum 7.1 card ... about 6 months ago XP did some upscrewed update and the DIGITAL output on the card no longer works .. Analog works fine as does the headphones. Just the digital crapped out. Neither Creative nor Windows has done ANYTHING about it.

Why you say? Simply because that is the way they let their cards become obsolete and sell more to the suckers.

Trust me, that card is the LAST Creative card I will buy for ANY computer!

But I have lucked out on the Linux boxes (4 of them right now on the network) .. the OLDER Creative cards work, at least as far as the sound and on one DIGITALLY!! (front panel inputs might as well not be there except for the headphone jack!!)

3rdalbum
March 25th, 2009, 07:05 AM
Creative doesn't even understand this newfangled Internet thingimijig, much less Linux.

pcjunkie
March 25th, 2009, 01:11 PM
I agree and even after emails to competitors proved fruitless I am stuck on where to go next...

I have an Audigy 2 and it is the only card that works.
An older Audigy from 1998 works but the card is horrible to make music DAW with.

I purchased 2 X fi cards for a client and myself and neither are in use.

Creative have done nothing to resolve Windows / Vista issues let alone Linux ones. Their forum is full of hate mail frankly and they sue clever people that fix things...

I will never again buy Creative anythings...

Sadly I have no other options at this time for Audio production that I know of...

I don't need surround sound so much, I need quality ASIO support and real time 24 bit HD recording (something the Audigy 2 was advertised to do, but never did. Americans were compensated, no one else was..)

Linux is the least of their problems..
Finding a new business model is the new problem..

As for other Audio solutions, no one has a Linux driver and most don't even have a MAC one...

Its like Toyota producing a car and leaving out the engine, when you ask for the engine they state its only available in America so if you live elsewhere you have a nice new Toyota.....to look at......and ponder........

pwnst*r
March 25th, 2009, 01:33 PM
i want my xfi to work :(

gnomeuser
March 25th, 2009, 01:41 PM
i want my xfi to work :(

Tell Creative not us :)

Skripka
March 25th, 2009, 01:53 PM
Creative not only has issues with the Linux community, they have issues with WINDOWS!


Creative/SoundBlaster needs to get stabbed.

pcjunkie
March 25th, 2009, 02:14 PM
Apparently the Asus Series works most of the time using Alsa etc

Its quite hard to get these cards in Australia. Most PC shops stack Big macs, I mean Creative when Eggs Benedict, I mean M audio etc are desirable...

I must be hungry....:P

http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/Review/116715,asus-xonar-dx-pci-e.aspx

Better and cheaper online

Nothing in local stores though :('

http://www.shopbot.com.au/pp-asus-xonar-d2x-price-80896.html

Tristam Green
March 25th, 2009, 02:17 PM
I doubt I would buy another Creative sound card, but their portable media players (specifically the ZEN line) "just work" with libmtp. So I'll gladly keep handing over moolah for those sexy little players.

fissionmailed
March 25th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Hardware companies don't _have_ to support _any_ OS. It's just not good for sales. Linux isn't getting shafted, but rather it isn't getting getting proprietary drivers for a certain sound card.

Skripka
March 25th, 2009, 02:27 PM
Hardware companies don't _have_ to support _any_ OS. It's just not good for sales. Linux isn't getting shafted, but rather it isn't getting getting proprietary drivers for a certain sound card.

Considering SoundBlaster is the dominant sound-board maker, and they don't have linux drivers for any of their current range of cards...They said they'd OS their driver, and support linux--to which they have done niether, I think "shafted" is rather descriptive.

pcjunkie
March 25th, 2009, 03:16 PM
Going by the Vista fiasco I would suggest Creative Sound systems department are ruthless. To deliberately disable features in order to "push" sales is blatant...

I am looking for a new PC card now and ASUS looks like getting my money. I hope millions make a similar choice and Creative can get a feel for the recession.

This in not about Linux, this is about conduct and respect.

Roasted
March 25th, 2009, 05:05 PM
Creative doesn't even understand this newfangled Internet thingimijig, much less Linux.

The above comment is quoted for the unusual accuracy in the truth.

Die, Creative.

geoken
March 25th, 2009, 05:33 PM
They said they'd OS their driver, and support linux--to which they have done niether, I think "shafted" is rather descriptive.

Weird, when the article said they put their driver under the GPL in November I took that to mean they open sourced their driver, did I misinterpret something.

geoken
March 25th, 2009, 05:35 PM
You know, it has never ceased to amaze me how many, many hardware manufacturers don't supply drivers for their kit, or release the driver as open source for all to modify and use.

Didn't they release their driver under an open source license?

oldsoundguy
March 25th, 2009, 07:28 PM
There are alternates .. just that NONE of them offer as many bells and whistles out of the box. The two that stand out as far as Linux support are Intel and Turtle Beach (Turtle Beach even goes so far as to have a Linux forum on their site!)(I LIKE the Turtle Beach high end cards .. they just have a nice flat response .. much like the old Yamaha cards!)
BUT, again .. none of the "fancy" stuff that Creative offers.
....... however, if the Creative DOES NOT WORK, what good are the ADVERTISED features anyway?

pwnst*r
March 25th, 2009, 07:28 PM
Tell Creative not us :)

duh.

Npl
March 25th, 2009, 08:19 PM
Heh, what are you complaining about? The source of the driver is available, so the mythical army of motivated FOSS hackers can start working at it, afterall FOSS means everything will be shiny and supported till the end of time.

stchman
March 25th, 2009, 08:44 PM
The best way we can hurt Creative is to NOT BUY their products.

I have an Audigy 2 card which works perfectly OOB with Linux. That will be the last Creative product I buy until they 100% fully support Linux.

I hold the same regard for Lexmark and Broadcom. Screw em, I will spend my money elsewhere.

Intel, Nvidia, HP are great supporters of Linux and therefore they will get my money.

stchman
March 25th, 2009, 08:46 PM
i want my xfi to work :(

Send a letter to Creative telling them you will spend your money on their competition that supports Linux.

Best way to get back at a business.

oldsoundguy
March 25th, 2009, 08:47 PM
Heh, what are you complaining about? The source of the driver is available, so the mythical army of motivated FOSS hackers can start working at it, afterall FOSS means everything will be shiny and supported till the end of time.

Do I detect a bit of sarcasm here?

They (Creative) released the drivers for the ANALOG output/side of the card and that is IT!
Everything else is still held at home and has to be reverse engineered by some very hard working peeps. Hence, the DIGITAL output and the master volume control for same just recently started working correctly by using the newest build/update of Pulse/Alsa. But the inputs are still dead in the water if you are using a front panel unit. (headphones work)

Also remember that those working on anything Linux are (in the main) voluntary and FREE workers.

AND, you are not PAYING anyone to do the work when you download and use the system.
(when I do FREE work, .. such as fix a friend's computer .. it is done on MY clock .. when I have TIME to do it and when I FEEL like doing it!)

To me, I am totally amazed at the progress of Linux over the past 3-4 years. It has gone from a totally geek, install each item and fix it yourself system, to an almost out of the box experience for most desktop users.
From living in terminal and CLI to click and install from a package manager. (think about running CLI to MOUNT A DRIVE so you could use it!)
KUDOS to the crew(s)!!
(Especially Ubuntu as they were the spark that really ignited the whole "make it user friendly" thing!! There WERE others, but slower to respond to the need for change.)

Npl
March 25th, 2009, 09:00 PM
Do I detect a bit of sarcasm here?yeah, but you still took your time to respond as if I were serious :)
They (Creative) released the drivers for the ANALOG output/side of the card and that is IT!
Everything else is still held at home and has to be reverse engineered by some very hard working peeps. Hence, the DIGITAL output and the master volume control for same just recently started working correctly by using the newest build/update of Pulse/Alsa. But the inputs are still dead in the water if you are using a front panel unit. (headphones work)Dint knew that.. last Creative Card I had is an Audigy and Im using onboard sound for years. Still the source could be a solid foundation.
Also remember that those working on anything Linux are (in the main) voluntary and FREE workers.

AND, you are not PAYING anyone to do the work when you download and use the system.
(when I do FREE work, .. such as fix a friend's computer .. it is done on MY clock .. when I have TIME to do it and when I FEEL like doing it!)Kernel-work is largely done by paid developers (though soundcards might not be a focus of them). Most desktop-stuff is hobbiest tough.
A argument I often heard (largely why FOSS-ATI is better than propietary-NV) is that a company might stop supporting a product if it aint getting revenue anymore, wheres FOSS never got money in the first place and thus always are motivated. This is the background to my original argument.


To me, I am totally amazed at the progress of Linux over the past 3-4 years. It has gone from a totally geek, install each item and fix it yourself system, to an almost out of the box experience for most desktop users.
From living in terminal and CLI to click and install from a package manager. (think about running CLI to MOUNT A DRIVE so you could use it!)
KUDOS to the crew(s)!!
(Especially Ubuntu as they were the spark that really ignited the whole "make it user friendly" thing!! There WERE others, but slower to respond to the need for change.)Tell me, Ubuntu 5.10 was the first Linux-Distro that worked right out of the box. That doesnt mean I dont have many gripes with the current state (and is offtopic), but the sheer amount of effort is admirable.

fissionmailed
March 25th, 2009, 10:17 PM
Considering SoundBlaster is the dominant sound-board maker, and they don't have linux drivers for any of their current range of cards...They said they'd OS their driver, and support linux--to which they have done niether, I think "shafted" is rather descriptive.

It's bad business practice, but I don't think anyone has been shafted. Then again I don't feel any pity for people who buy hardware without drivers for their OS and complain about it. Of course I distrust businesses anyway so. Their end goal is to make money, nothing else.

wolfen69
March 25th, 2009, 10:33 PM
Heh, what are you complaining about? The source of the driver is available, so the mythical army of motivated FOSS hackers can start working at it, afterall FOSS means everything will be shiny and supported till the end of time.

if a billion dollar company can't provide me with a driver, i won't provide them with money.

pwnst*r
March 26th, 2009, 01:39 AM
Send a letter to Creative telling them you will spend your money on their competition that supports Linux.

Best way to get back at a business.

except i'm not forking out more $ for another sound card. i dual boot anyway, and music making programs are better in windows, it'd just be nice to be able to use it.

K.Mandla
March 26th, 2009, 03:34 AM
i will refuse to buy any more products from them until they support linux.
And that's the rule we all should follow, for any company.

stchman
March 26th, 2009, 05:46 PM
except i'm not forking out more $ for another sound card. i dual boot anyway, and music making programs are better in windows, it'd just be nice to be able to use it.

It is not as though a decent sound card is a HUGE investment.

You can get a decent Linux compatible sound card for under $30.

Think of it this way, you did not have to pay for the OS.

BuffaloX
March 26th, 2009, 07:14 PM
I dumped Creative many many years ago. Even on Windows XP their drivers sucked.

I'm quite happy with my M-Audio revolution, which also has far better sound quality.

Anyone remember the AWE64 from way way back.
It was a complete marketing scam, with no improvement over AWE32, still they raised the price about 40% for it.

Remeber the Audigy 24 bit sampling anyone? Which turned out to be plain 16 bit.

Their marketing is so misleading, and they don't have a clue how to make good drivers or software.

Just keep away from creative regardless of platform, I don't even care if they have open source drivers.

binbash
March 26th, 2009, 07:21 PM
What a shame, i am not gonna buy any kind of creative hardwares from now