Any Battlestar Galactica Fans?

[abyssius]

I just finished watching the final episode to the Battlestar Galactica series and I wanted to express my appreciation for what I consider was the best SciFi television series produced to date. I can't think of another series so brilliantly envisioned, intricately executed and intellectually engrossing. Congratulations to Ronald D. Moore for creating such a stimulating fantasy. As he put it, "I wanted something that was neither Star Wars-Star Trek, which I saw as the romantic side, nor Blade Runner-Matrix, the cyberpunk side. I thought there had to be a third category. To a large extent, I'd say, yeah, we accomplished that." You certainly did, mate!

[mybunche]

Yes, but the original series. Have one of the new ones but I may give another look.

[MikeTheC]

Fan of the original series here, to. Not a fan of the new one, nor a supporter of RDM/DE.

[pwnst*r]

was a fan of old, but a bigger fan of the new. one of the best sci-fi series i've ever witnessed.

[etnlIcarus]

My criticisms of the finale are mostly the same ones I held for the entire series: good ideas - poorly executed. Attempts made at human drama came across as sociopathic, distant or just plain amateurish. Characterisations were mostly pretty narrow, yet just about every character had the potential for homicidal psychotic episodes. Some characters came across as more cartoonish than their 1970's counterparts. Guerrilla style of direction was underutilized during action sequences and inappropriately used throughout the rest of the programme. Pacing was loose and while sci-fi cliches were strenuously avoided, a more genre-agnostic pool of cliches went unabated.

As for the finale explicitly: ending was extremely over-written and sentimental; departure from the show's serious. semi-credible tone dramatically diminished the catharsis one would expect from such a conclusion and some of the writing choices (*cough* ghosts, gods and corpses bumping "nuke", buttons) were just plain insulting to anyone with a speck of grey-matter or taste. Complete lack of subtlety (having the fatalistic undertones spelled out in no uncertain terms) also served to make me facepalm.

That said, I think there was a lot of talent present amongst the cast and crew; I just think the end product could have come together a lot more smoothly.

[abyssius]

My criticisms of the finale are mostly the same ones I held for the entire series: good ideas - poorly executed. Attempts made at human drama came across as sociopathic, distant or just plain amateurish.
If I felt this way about a television show, I'd never watch it, yet your commentary indicates that you are well versed in it, right down to the finale. As amateurish as it was, it seemed to keep you engaged. This I'll consider a measure of its success.

The finale was a bit predictable and soppy, but after the years these excellent actors put into this show, they deserve a sentimental goodbye. Congratulations to the BSG staff and crew for providing first-rate entertainment for MOST of us Sci-Fi fans.

[abyssius]

Fan of the original series here, to. Not a fan of the new one, nor a supporter of RDM/DE.

The old one had it's place during its tenure and was the original incentive for me to begin watching the new one. However, production and broadcast technology and the concepts that can be expressed without censorship in a television drama has expanded since those times. I think the new BSG represented this progress brilliantly.

[billgoldberg]

I agree with the OP, this is the best Sci-Fi series ever produced (see avatar :p).

The final episode was frakkin awesome, I already watched it twice.

[MasterNetra]

I wasn't too much of a fan of the old but loved the new. I actually got emotional throughout something i rarely do with a series.

[abyssius]

I wasn't too much of a fan of the old but loved the new. I actually got emotional throughout something i rarely do with a series.

I know how you feel, MasterNetra. BSG succeeded in mirroring some of the most controversial theological and political conflicts within our society in a thought-provoking way, without taking sides or championing a particular agenda. Unlike the simplistic "good vs. evil" 'cowboy movie' mentality of the original rendition, this series managed to 'muddy the waters' within modern human conflicts in a completely unpredictable fashion. It wasn't preaching a particular philosophy; rather it engaged us to think about our perceptions and conclusions in a superbly subtle way. This is a show I will dearly miss.

[MasterNetra]

I know how you feel, MasterNetra. BSG succeeded in mirroring some of the most controversial theological and political conflicts within our society in a thought-provoking way, without taking sides or championing a particular agenda. Unlike the simplistic "good vs. evil" 'cowboy movie' mentality of the original rendition, this series managed to 'muddy the waters' within modern human conflicts in a completely unpredictable fashion. It wasn't preaching a particular philosophy; rather it engaged us to think about our perceptions and conclusions in a superbly subtle way. This is a show I will dearly miss.

I'll miss it too...until i get it all on DVD. :p And it sure beats the pants off of star trek & star wars combined. Especially sense its far more realistic then either. (With some conflicts, sound in space & how the frack they have gravity on their ships...and of course the ftl drive...then again that is a unknown tech rather then a conflict really...)

[etnlIcarus]

If I felt this way about a television show, I'd never watch it, yet your commentary indicates that you are well versed in it, right down to the finale. As amateurish as it was, it seemed to keep you engaged. This I'll consider a measure of its success. I watched it in much the same vein most people watch Two and a Half Men: Since Friends finished, it's a choice between an even worse sitcom or going outside and doing something constructive with your time. Granted, those are two programmes I'd never watch.

[solitaire]

I Enjoyed all versions of BSG (Except BSG '80) :D

The finally did wrap up a lot of the story lines and I enjoyed it a lot!
Can't wait to get the complete DVD or Blu-Ray set :D

[cprofitt]

I found the new one to be ok... but not as good as:

Dr. Who
Torchwood
Firefly

[etnlIcarus]

I don't believe two of the three shows you mentioned to be particularly good, either. :p

[3rdalbum]

I must admit that I found the original series from "War Of The Gods" onwards to be far better than the "reimagined" series. The original series before that episode was merely somewhat better than the reimagined one.

Just like the movie of Watchmen, all the geeks are making *far* too big a fuss over BSG.

[Spike-X]

I thought BSG as a whole was mostly brilliant.

Not perfect, no, but nothing is. I greatly enjoyed the finale, and found it to be a very satisfactory ending to one of the most epic television shows ever produced.

There were even a few laffs here and there, which case as a surprise.

"When you run out of ammo, start throwing rocks."

[cprofitt]

I don't believe two of the three shows you mentioned to be particularly good, either. :p

Yes... Sci-Fi shows are really all in the eye of the beholder...

You have me curious as to which one you liked... I am guessing Firefly...

[Ms_Angel_D]

BSG succeeded in mirroring some of the most controversial theological and political conflicts within our society in a thought-provoking way, without taking sides or championing a particular agenda. Unlike the simplistic "good vs. evil" 'cowboy movie' mentality of the original rendition, this series managed to 'muddy the waters' within modern human conflicts in a completely unpredictable fashion. It wasn't preaching a particular philosophy; rather it engaged us to think about our perceptions and conclusions in a superbly subtle way. This is a show I will dearly miss.

+1
I couldn't agree more. My husband and I both Enjoyed this show and I'm sad to see it go.

[etnlIcarus]

Yes... Sci-Fi shows are really all in the eye of the beholder...Well, you could say that of the entire artistic spectrum. It all comes down to individual expectation.


You have me curious as to which one you liked... I am guessing Firefly...
Firefly: seemed like Cowboy Bebop with all the fun and artistic vision removed.
Torchwood: much like the new BSG, it tried to be more than it was and came off as unsatisfying, awkward and pretentious.
Dr. Who: no pretense of intellectualism, no attempt made to push any boundaries. Just outlandish fun, with character developments being the natural product of the stories told, rather than tacked-on for the sake of realism/maturity/a cynical demographic grab.

Dr. Who and the last season of Enterprise are really the only sci-fi outings in recent years I've enjoyed (on the small screen, at least).

[abyssius]

Well, you could say that of the entire artistic spectrum. It all comes down to individual expectation.


Firefly: seemed like Cowboy Bebop with all the fun and artistic vision removed.
Torchwood: much like the new BSG, it tried to be more than it was and came off as unsatisfying, awkward and pretentious.
Dr. Who: no pretense of intellectualism, no attempt made to push any boundaries. Just outlandish fun, with character developments being the natural product of the stories told, rather than tacked-on for the sake of realism/maturity/a cynical demographic grab.

Dr. Who and the last season of Enterprise are really the only sci-fi outings in recent years I've enjoyed (on the small screen, at least).

Now that you've expounded further on your likes/dislikes I begin to understand how you feel about BSG. I think that a factor could be a cultural difference based on our respective locations. For example, Dr. Who never became a big hit in the US. Actually, the show's attempt at droll anti-intellectuality and triviality was received as silly or childish by many US Sci-Fi fans. Also, Enterprise never made the impact that Next Generation did in the US because the shoes it had to fill was simply too big - not to mention the horrific '80's rock opening theme ;).

Although, it can't be discussed on this forum, America right now is in the midst of a cultural upheaval that other western societies may have already confronted. BSG (and the last season of SG-1 for that matter) was able to capitalize on this in a meaningful way. Therefore, concepts that can be cynically 'written-off' as pretentious, are taken more seriously in the US. In this regard, I think BSG succeeded to stimulate some alternative thought processes that needed to be brought to the forefront of US culture. As another poster pointed out, any program made for television can be picked apart, but BSG went beyond its entertainment value and presented important messages - even if the relevance of those messages might have been focused on US audiences.

[MasterNetra]

Now that you've expounded further on your likes/dislikes I begin to understand how you feel about BSG. I think that a factor could be a cultural difference based on our respective locations. For example, Dr. Who never became a big hit in the US. Actually, the show's attempt at droll anti-intellectuality and triviality was received as silly or childish by many US Sci-Fi fans. Also, Enterprise never made the impact that Next Generation did in the US because the shoes it had to fill was simply too big - not to mention the horrific '80's rock opening theme ;).

Although, it can't be discussed on this forum, America right now is in the midst of a cultural upheaval that other western societies may have already confronted. BSG (and the last season of SG-1 for that matter) was able to capitalize on this in a meaningful way. Therefore, concepts that can be cynically 'written-off' as pretentious, are taken more seriously in the US. In this regard, I think BSG succeeded to stimulate some alternative thought processes that needed to be brought to the forefront of US culture. As another poster pointed out, any program made for television can be picked apart, but BSG went beyond its entertainment value and presented important messages - even if the relevance of those messages might have been focused on US audiences.

+1
What he/she said. :p

[s.fox]

I think I prefer the original to be honest.

[abyssius]

I think I prefer the original to be honest.

I wonder if Arthur C. Clarke would have agreed with you:p

[s.fox]

I wonder if Arthur C. Clarke would have agreed with you:p

Maybe, though I think Gregory Benford would :D

[abyssius]

Maybe, though I think Gregory Benford would :D

I think I'll defer to my personal favourite, Robert A. Heinlein:
"I never learned from a man who agreed with me."

When the 'new' BSG crew finally arrived on earth, they excavated a helmet of a 'pre-historic' Cylon that was actually one used in the original series. This sums up the original series for me 'pre-historic'. ;)

[MikeTheC]

I watched the NuBSG mini, season 1, and the first half of season 2. I didn't care for the plot of the new series, and I don't really care all that much for the new characterizations. That being said, there's no question all of the visuals in the show are multiple full-body-lengths better than what the original series had. However, a good show is more than the some of its effects and even whether or not the actors (whom I don't blame for the show, you act what you're given, and that's that...) can act. You have to have a compelling plot and story line, something which I felt NuBSG just didn't have.

I tried to watch Firefly (a friend has the DVD collection) but I gave up after the first episode-and-a-half. Just totally not my thing.

As for Dr. Who, I'm a huge fan of the original series, and there are many things I've liked about the new one, but the further it goes, the more borderline I'm beginning to get with even being a fan of it.

It's just hard for me to find a story with a plot I actually find gripping and engaging, or characters I actually care about, etc. I think the last "new" sci-fi show I actually cared about (and so much so it's become my unquestioned #1 favorite) was Babylon 5.

[abyssius]

I watched the NuBSG mini, season 1, and the first half of season 2. I didn't care for the plot of the new series, and I don't really care all that much for the new characterizations. That being said, there's no question all of the visuals in the show are multiple full-body-lengths better than what the original series had. However, a good show is more than the some of its effects and even whether or not the actors (whom I don't blame for the show, you act what you're given, and that's that...) can act. You have to have a compelling plot and story line, something which I felt NuBSG just didn't have.

I tried to watch Firefly (a friend has the DVD collection) but I gave up after the first episode-and-a-half. Just totally not my thing.

As for Dr. Who, I'm a huge fan of the original series, and there are many things I've liked about the new one, but the further it goes, the more borderline I'm beginning to get with even being a fan of it.

It's just hard for me to find a story with a plot I actually find gripping and engaging, or characters I actually care about, etc. I think the last "new" sci-fi show I actually cared about (and so much so it's become my unquestioned #1 favorite) was Babylon 5.

Babylon 5 was definitely one of my favourites. I'm surprised that if you liked B5 you didn't follow through on BSG. I thought they were very similar. An observation - if I had given up on B5 after 1.5 seasons, I'd have a very different opinion on the entire series. How "original" are you going with Dr. Who. I used to watch Dr. Who when I was a kid growing up in England - 40 years ago!!!

[MikeTheC]

Babylon 5 was definitely one of my favourites. I'm surprised that if you liked B5 you didn't follow through on BSG.
I just don't like the plot, the theory of the throughline, any of it. And one of the worst turn-offs for me, personally, was the whole "spot the cylon!" mentality which begun with the mini.


How "original" are you going with Dr. Who. I used to watch Dr. Who when I was a kid growing up in England - 40 years ago!!!
While I haven't seen every episode, I've seen every Doctor. My favorites from the original series are Peter Davison, Tom Baker and Jon Pertwee. Favorite episodes are:

Patrick Troughtan:
The Highlander
The War Games

Jon Pertwee:
Spearhead from Space
Day of the Daleks
The Mind of Evil
Planet of the Spiders

Tom Baker:
Robot
The Ark in Space
Genesis of the Daleks
The Deadly Assassin
The Face of Evil
The Talons of Weng-Chiang
City of Death
Shada
Full Circle
State of Decay
The Keeper of Traken
Logopolis

Peter Davison:
Castrovalva
Four To Doomsday
Kinda
The Visitation
Black Orchid
Earthshock
Terminus
The Five Doctors
The Awakening
Resurrection of the Daleks
Planet of Fire

Colin Baker:
Attack of the Cybermen
The Mark of the Rani
The Two Doctors
Trial of a Timelord arc

Sylvester McCoy:
Silver Nemesis



WE NOW RETURN THIS THREAD TO ITS REGULARLY-SCHEDULED TOPIC... ;) :p

[etnlIcarus]

Now that you've expounded further on your likes/dislikes I begin to understand how you feel about BSG. I think that a factor could be a cultural difference based on our respective locations. For example, Dr. Who never became a big hit in the US. Actually, the show's attempt at droll anti-intellectuality and triviality was received as silly or childish by many US Sci-Fi fans. Also, Enterprise never made the impact that Next Generation did in the US because the shoes it had to fill was simply too big - not to mention the horrific '80's rock opening theme ;).

Although, it can't be discussed on this forum, America right now is in the midst of a cultural upheaval that other western societies may have already confronted. BSG (and the last season of SG-1 for that matter) was able to capitalize on this in a meaningful way. Therefore, concepts that can be cynically 'written-off' as pretentious, are taken more seriously in the US. In this regard, I think BSG succeeded to stimulate some alternative thought processes that needed to be brought to the forefront of US culture. As another poster pointed out, any program made for television can be picked apart, but BSG went beyond its entertainment value and presented important messages - even if the relevance of those messages might have been focused on US audiences.

It's not that the subtext was lost on me (it's about as subtle as a blunt-force trauma), it's simply not an all-redeeming quality, nor (like the rest of the programme) particularly well executed or integrated. As I said before: BSG tried to be more than it was. It incorporated a myriad of concepts (many beyond the regular scope of the genre) yet was never able to bring them together smoothly. I have nothing against this, I'm just not going to give a programme high marks for effort alone.

In a round-about way you may be right though; while the, "message", was indeed as important to me as it was anyone else, this wasn't the first programme to tackle these issues. BSG is a little late to the party in that respect. Yet, it could be that due to the proximity of US audiences, it's taken a bit longer to emerge from the fog and this is one of the first introspective efforts they've actually noticed.

[abyssius]

It's not that the subtext was lost on me (it's about as subtle as a blunt-force trauma), it's simply not an all-redeeming quality, nor (like the rest of the programme) particularly well executed or integrated.
Edward James Almos, one of the finest American actors, as well as the other cast members were all spectacular, engaging and captivating. The production (from camera shots to set design to special effects) was consistently movie quality. The story line was also top-notch (as evidenced by the praise of this show reported by respected critics all over the world.

As I said before: BSG tried to be more than it was. It incorporated a myriad of concepts (many beyond the regular scope of the genre) yet was never able to bring them together smoothly. I have nothing against this, I'm just not going to give a programme high marks for effort alone.
What exactly is 'beyond the regular scope' of science fiction - a genre that is only limited by the perceiver's imagination?

In a round-about way you may be right though; while the, "message", was indeed as important to me as it was anyone else, this wasn't the first programme to tackle these issues. BSG is a little late to the party in that respect.
BSG's "message" is thousands of years in the making - and some messages are important enough that they need to be repeated and reinforced. Being the first or the last in this regard holds no significance.

Yet, it could be that due to the proximity of US audiences, it's taken a bit longer to emerge from the fog and this is one of the first introspective efforts they've actually noticed.
It appears that although the US has emerged from the fog, other proximities are still firmly immersed in it.

[etnlIcarus]

Excuse quote abuse. >.>
Edward James Almos, one of the finest American actors, as well as the other cast members were all spectacular, engaging and captivating. The production (from camera shots to set design to special effects) was consistently movie quality. The story line was also top-notchThis statement would have worked better were it simply you stating your opinion and not a response to what I've said.


as evidenced by the praise of this show reported by respected critics all over the world


Yes... Sci-Fi shows are really all in the eye of the beholder...Well, you could say that of the entire artistic spectrum. It all comes down to individual expectation.Off the top of my head, the only instances I can think of where I've substantially disagreed with critical reception was with Pan's Labyrinth and The Brothers Grimm. Not that I'm defending my position here; I simply don't take critical reception to be gospel, even if it does inform my viewing choices (which I believe is the entire point or critical review).


What exactly is 'beyond the regular scope' of science fiction - a genre that is only limited by the perceiver's imagination? Now you're suggesting BSG did (or attempted to do) nothing unique? Hard to believe you would hold such praise (or defensiveness) for just another sci-fi jaunt.


BSG's "message" is thousands of years in the makingPlease excuse me while I groan melodramatically for a few minutes. Nothing turns your ambivalence towards something to hatred faster than it's fans...


Being the first or the last in this regard holds no significance. It does when discussing viewer impact, which, coincidentally, was what we were discussing.


It appears that although the US has emerged from the fog, other proximities are still firmly immersed in it.I tried my darnedest to be diplomatic on that point. If I knew you were going to be such an a*** I wouldn't have bothered.