Stop transforming that forum in a permanent bashing to other OS

[yse]

Seriously, every topic i see, every one rapport at Windows/OSX, and is permanent Windows bashing.

Whats the point? Just stop it, you dont make the things better, is not Microsoft fault for everything, try to roll the wheel also, dont just point.

Also, i dont understand how moderators let free such type of discussions who dont go anywhere.

Seriously, i work in a company spent lots of money to support cross platform software, and the most expensive part is for linux, but when i am looking at that forum and such comunity, some times i really ask myself if the community really deserve the effort.

Just stop it. Stop the other operating system bashing, none is perfect and all have problems. Stop that childish type of discussion, when in most of the cases you dont have any idea about what you say.

[schauerlich]

Sadly, this will fall on deaf ears.

[Dr Small]

I am deaf

[Helios1276]

Agreed, it is getting tired

[spoons]

Seriously, every topic i see, every one rapport at Windows/OSX, and is permanent Windows bashing.

Whats the point? Just stop it, you dont make the things better, is not Microsoft fault for everything, try to roll the wheel also, dont just point.

Also, i dont understand how moderators let free such type of discussions who dont go anywhere.

Seriously, i work in a company spent lots of money to support cross platform software, and the most expensive part is for linux, but when i am looking at that forum and such comunity, some times i really ask myself if the community really deserve the effort.

Just stop it. Stop the other operating system bashing, none is perfect and all have problems. Stop that childish type of discussion, when in most of the cases you dont have any idea about what you say.

*begins a slow clap*

[cardinals_fan]

Bashing is only good when it is well-reasoned, focused, and has evidence. Arguing set-in-stone opinions with no data or logic is stupid and pointless.

[Sealbhach]

Just stop it. Stop the other operating system bashing, none is perfect and all have problems. Stop that childish type of discussion, when in most of the cases you dont have any idea about what you say.

Are you a moderator? If not, complain to the moderators if you have a problem.

Also, don't forget Ubuntu Bug #1.


.

[cardinals_fan]

Also, don't forget Ubuntu Bug #1.

Do we need to agree with it?

[Dr Small]

Also, i dont understand how moderators let free such type of discussions who dont go anywhere.
So long as the discussion is not violating the Code of Conduct, the moderators are not obligated to end it, nor should they.

[Helios1276]

So long as the discussion is not violating the Code of Conduct, the moderators are not obligated to end it, nor should they.

Though should a recurring discussion not be placed in..recurring discussions? In order to keep the forums fresh?

[Dr Small]

Though should a recurring discussion not be placed in..recurring discussions? In order to keep the forums fresh?
What does that have to do with ending a discussion?

[Sealbhach]

I wish people would leave the moderating to the moderators. I don't come on here telling other people what they should say (or not say).

I think we should forgive a little n00b exuberance, we were all n00bs once, I still am in most ways - except now I know how to bring down the gdm with Alt+F2...


.

[Helios1276]

What does that have to do with ending a discussion?

The discussion ends here (inappropriate section) and picks up elsewhere (recurring discussion) :popcorn:

[Joeb454]

Though should a recurring discussion not be placed in..recurring discussions? In order to keep the forums fresh?

Yes, please use the report button to notify us of any threads, and they'll be moved into recurring discussions (we do double check, just to make sure it is recurring :))


I wish people would leave the moderating to the moderators.

This is why we have a report button, so people can do just that :) Some people don't seem to have found it though

[Dr Small]

The discussion ends here (inappropriate section) and picks up elsewhere (recurring discussion) :popcorn:
I don't think that's the same thing the OP was referring to. By moderators stepping out of their bounds when a healthy discussion which is not violating anything in the Code of Conduct gets closed (or ended) it limits our freedom of speech here.

I have no problem with moderators locking inappropriate threads which do get nasty and violate the Code of Conduct. But locking all 'bashing' threads (by one's definition) is flat out limiting what we can and can not say about certain OSes.

[Dr Small]

This is why we have a report button, so people can do just that :) Some people don't seem to have found it though

You do a great job at hiding it ;)

[Joeb454]

You do a great job at hiding it ;)

It's this one: http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/report.gif

[Helios1276]

Yes, please use the report button to notify us of any threads, and they'll be moved into recurring discussions (we do double check, just to make sure it is recurring :))

I was just philosiphising, Had no wish to end anyone's discussion.:KS

[Dr Small]

It's this one: http://ubuntuforums.org/images/buttons/report.gif
You forgot to hyperlink it for me, Joe :D

[Helios1276]

I don't think that's the same thing the OP was referring to. By moderators stepping out of their bounds when a healthy discussion which is not violating anything in the Code of Conduct gets closed (or ended) it limits our freedom of speech here.

I have no problem with moderators locking inappropriate threads which do get nasty and violate the Code of Conduct. But locking all 'bashing' threads (by one's definition) is flat out limiting what we can and can not say about certain OSes.

Very much agreed on most of your points, but having the same thread pop up continously does more harm in my mind than good.

[ubuntu1sttimer]

We all are flooded with advertisements extolling the advantages to using the advertiser's product. How often do you see an advertisement that bashes a competitor? Almost never. Why, because a bashing statement says that the basher's product can't stand up to the other company's product. Lacking a superior product, you turn to bashing.

Sometimes I see all the bashing from LINUX users and I wonder if some of them are not working for the competitors.

Let's stop worrying about the competitors and concentrate on making UBUNTU LINUX the best product available.

[cardinals_fan]

We all are flooded with advertisements extolling the advantages to using the advertiser's product. How often do you see an advertisement that bashes a competitor? Almost never. Why, because a bashing statement says that the basher's product can't stand up to the other company's product. Lacking a superior product, you turn to bashing.

Except in politics, solely because all politicians are poor products ;)

[Dr Small]

Very much agreed on most of your points, but having the same thread pop up continously does more harm in my mind than good.
Eventually, you just get like me, and ignore it. If enough people ignore it, then the discussion dies. It is better for the community to let the discussion die on it's own, than for the staff to step in and tell us what we can and can't post about, methinks.

[Helios1276]

Eventually, you just get like me, and ignore it. If enough people ignore it, then the discussion dies. It is better for the community to let the discussion die on it's own, than for the staff to step in and tell us what we can and can't post about, methinks.

Also agreed, that is why I was in a separate thread discussing the 'idea' and not pushing the report button.

[Sealbhach]

.Why, because a bashing statement says that the basher's product can't stand up to the other company's product. Lacking a superior product, you turn to bashing.

Sometimes I see all the bashing from LINUX users and I wonder if some of them are not working for the competitors.


Check it out:

http://www.slashgear.com/ballmer-critiques-apple-500-more-to-get-a-logo-2038377/

http://www.itp.net/news/472484

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/05/28/100033867/


http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-Netscape-8-Breaks-IE/

.

[bryonak]

How often do you see an advertisement that bashes a competitor? Almost never.
Note that in some countries (at least in mine, that is) it's illegal to bash a competitor in a TV/paper ad... it's called slander/libel or whatever the economy-legalese term is.



Eventually, you just get like me, and ignore it. If enough people ignore it, then the discussion dies. It is better for the community to let the discussion die on it's own, than for the staff to step in and tell us what we can and can't post about, methinks.
Signed


On topic:
It might have to do something with the Other OS Talk getting closed, which leads to more OS (***** length-)discussions in the Cafe.
By closing threads you won't stop it, because the people still hold their opinions and will voice them at another occasion.
Just let them... and let the mods do their job if it gets too crazy.

[swoll1980]

I believe the whole purpose of these threads is to keep the flames fanned. The people on this forum will always criticize Windows. Half of the people that come here, do so because they don't like Windows. In the 2 years that I've been around I've seen it 100,000 times. It seems pointless to open a bunch of stop bashing os threads, it's never going to happen. Your trying to empty an ocean with a shot glass

[koenn]

I believe the whole purpose of these threads is to keep the flames fanned. The people on this forum will always criticize Windows. Half of the people that come here, do so because they don't like Windows. In the 2 years that I've been around I've seen it 100,000 times. It seems pointless to open a bunch of stop bashing os threads, it's never going to happen. Your trying to empty an ocean with a shot glass

I think there's truth in this.

Also, some people seem hyper-sensitive to criticism. They post something favourable about an operating system, and any disagreement is labeled "bashing".

Lastly, this is an Ubuntu Forum. Lots of people here, possibly a majority, run Ubuntu or some other Linux. They probably made a deliberate, rational choice to do so. As a result, any discussion about flaws/features/disadvantages/advantages of Windows, Mac, Linux, MS-DOS, ... is going to be biased in favour of Ubuntu/Linux -- if I had come to the conclusion that FreeDOS is the best OS out there in terms of my hardware and computing needs, I wouldn't be running Ubuntu.
So we're biased. Live with it.

[anthonie]

Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches

Also, don't forget that, according to Steve Ballmer, Linx users are basically the victims of a horrible disease called cancer. As such, medical specialists say, it may be very good for these people to openly face what they suffer as it will help them to get better.

[etnlIcarus]

To be honest, I find unintelligible trolls like yse more patience-testing than OS bashing. When the OP cries 'linux fanboy/elitist' in response to any criticism leveled at him, a thread like this is merely a self-serving wank, aimed at reassuring the OP of his own righteous indignation.

Someone let me know when yse finally gets banned. We'll have drinks and play celebrat.mid (http://www.irevan.com/pam/celebrat.mid) on a loop.

[So Tough]

Since "other OS talk" closed down has all that bashing been transfered here to the cafe???

[kimda]

We all are flooded with advertisements extolling the advantages to using the advertiser's product. How often do you see an advertisement that bashes a competitor? Almost never. Why, because a bashing statement says that the basher's product can't stand up to the other company's product. Lacking a superior product, you turn to bashing.

Sometimes I see all the bashing from LINUX users and I wonder if some of them are not working for the competitors.

Let's stop worrying about the competitors and concentrate on making UBUNTU LINUX the best product available.

I couldn't agree more. Each has his place. I use multple Operating Systems and each has its strengths and weaknesses. Lets focus on making Ubuntu Linux great and advocate it upon its strenghts instead of bashing the competition on its weaknesses.

[MasterNetra]

I'm not doing any serious windows bashing, its just on the side thats all. :p
I just windows to play some higher end games as well as use CS3 products as well as 3Ds Max.

[der_joachim]

Since "other OS talk" closed down has all that bashing been transfered here to the cafe???

Have you ever actually *read* the other OS forums?

[So Tough]

Have you ever actually *read* the other OS forums?

:D Randomly selected snippets, Why?

[cardinals_fan]

:D Randomly selected snippets, Why?
It really had very little bashing.

[adamlau]

Nothing wrong with bashing, provides perspective.

[CJ Master]

It seems to me that there's more people making topics arguing against bashing then actual bashing topics...

[Dr Small]

It seems to me that there's more people making topics arguing against bashing then actual bashing topics...
Maybe we should do something about this then, eh? :D

[Bachstelze]

Also, i dont understand how moderators let free such type of discussions who dont go anywhere.

We are human. If you see such a thread, use the report button.

Ew, Joeb beat me to it. :/

[yse]

We are human. If you see such a thread, use the report button.

Ew, Joeb beat me to it. :/

"We"?

Well, this is my last post on that forum.

Good luck to everybody.

[I-75]

How often do you see an advertisement that bashes a competitor? Almost never. Why, because a bashing statement says that the basher's product can't stand up to the other company's product. Lacking a superior product, you turn to bashing.


Mac versus PC commercials

[abyssius]

Mac versus PC commercials

+1 How true! And a most ineffective ad campaign also since its market impact was minimal at best. The only beneficiary was the "Mac Guy" actor, since it probably bolstered his career.

MSrepugnatosis: A neurosis characterised by an uncanny desire to ridicule the operating system that probably taught you how to use computers in the first place.

[swoll1980]

Mac versus PC commercials

There's way more than that even, too many to list.

[joey-elijah]

I'm getting pretty tired of all the 'stop bashing windows thread' threads.

People will have gripes regardless of whether you want them too or not - either join the discussions and put your thoughts forward or just ignore them!

[cariboo]

It seems the OP doesn't want to be considered a human for some reason, so he has left. :)

Jim

[koenn]

MSrepugnatosis: A neurosis characterised by an uncanny desire to ridicule the operating system that probably taught you how to use computers in the first place.

So, If I understand that correctly,
the operating system that probably you how to use computers in the first place, is exempt from critisism, for no other reason than that is was the first OS you ever used ? Hm.

Did it occur to you that people with experience with more than 1 OS are in a better position to see the pros and cons of either OS than those who've only seen one ? Are you trying to say that people know less as their experience increases ? Interesting.

You also assume that Windows actually teaches people how to use a computer. It doesn't. It teaches people how to use Windows. I thought only
Windows-users who've never had hands-on experience with an other system would make the mistake of thinking that Windows is a part of their computer.

[lisati]

"We"?

Well, this is my last post on that forum.

Good luck to everybody.


It seems the OP doesn't want to be considered a human for some reason, so he has left. :)

Jim

I'd noticed: Joined in January this year, only 51 posts.....

[ddrichardson]

I'd noticed: Joined in January this year, only 51 posts.....
Yes I ran in to this guy recently, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1098897&page=3

When his arguments were lambasted he started accusing someone of being racist. I've read it a couple of times and still don't get how.

Thread was locked, shame because it was a good argument.

[cardinals_fan]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1064196&page=9

I just don't know...

[abyssius]

So, If I understand that correctly,
the operating system that probably you how to use computers in the first place, is exempt from critisism, for no other reason than that is was the first OS you ever used ? Hm.

You might not be aware that there is a big difference between criticism and ridicule. I don't know of a single OS that's exempt from criticism. However, I object to ridiculing any operating system, because every one I've had experience with (Commodore, CP/M, Unix, Zenix, OS/2, DOS, all Windows variations, Several Linux variations, Some Mac OS variations) have contributed innovations that don't deserve ridicule.


Did it occur to you that people with experience with more than 1 OS are in a better position to see the pros and cons of either OS than those who've only seen one ? Are you trying to say that people know less as their experience increases ? Interesting.

You're reading a lot into a statement. It's almost as if you're creating 'strawman' to debate with yourself.


You also assume that Windows actually teaches people how to use a computer. It doesn't. It teaches people how to use Windows. I thought only
Windows-users who've never had hands-on experience with an other system would make the mistake of thinking that Windows is a part of their computer.

Please. I learned how to use computers long before Windows was in existence. However, Windows does 'teach' many computer concepts to those who build or set up computers themselves. I made the assumption that if you're on this forum, you aren't a user that considers a computer an appliance, and isn't even aware what an OS is. If you read the posts on this forum, how many people are applying Windows installation and configuration concepts, when they ask questions on the support forums? That's because they learned to use computers with a Windows machine.

[entr3p]

http://www.learningubuntu.com/images/leave.png

[swoll1980]

You might not be aware that there is a big difference between criticism and ridicule. I don't know of a single OS that's exempt from criticism. However, I object to ridiculing any operating system, because every one I've had experience with (Commodore, CP/M, Unix, Zenix, OS/2, DOS, all Windows variations, Several Linux variations, Some Mac OS variations) have contributed innovations that don't deserve ridicule.


Why do you care? You would think your one of the devs, or something. It's just a computer program, why waste all this time trying to crusade against the bashing of a software program that has nothing to do with you.

[scottuss]

If people want to discuss genuine reasons why they feel one OS is better than another, they can feel free to do so. Look at it from the other side, Microsoft and Apple do not take an open view (forgive the pun) of Linux, they do their best (more so Microsoft) to denounce it and promote their product. If the Microsoft forum had anti-linux posts they would most likely not get moderated. Perhaps a little friendly counter attack is exactly what's needed. Let's be under no delusion, some people see it as a big issue.

Anyway, personally I say use what makes you happy, but I'm no fan of Windows or Mac OS X. It's a personal preference and if I want to state it then why am I not free to do so?

[abyssius]

Why do you care? You would think your one of the devs, or something. It's just a computer program, why waste all this time trying to crusade against the bashing of a software program that has nothing to do with you.

You're right it is just a computer program. If you see my original post in this thread, I simply made a 'tongue-in-cheek' comment about people who 'bash' Windows (actually it would apply to any OS). My response that you quoted was directed at another poster who seemed to read an entire book into a simple attempt at light-hearted sarcasm. In a nutshell, I wasn't commenting about OS bashing, just the people who seem to enjoy doing it.

[swoll1980]

You're right it is just a computer program. If you see my original post in this thread, I simply made a 'tongue-in-cheek' comment about people who 'bash' Windows (actually it would apply to any OS). My response that you quoted was directed at another poster who seemed to read an entire book into a simple attempt at light-hearted sarcasm. In a nutshell, I wasn't commenting about OS bashing, just the people who seem to enjoy doing it.

I see. Anyways this whole thing is silly I say to each his own. I think it's silly when people say things like "that's why people don't use Linux, because of you window bashers" Where do they get this crap from? If someone won't use Linux because some of it's users bash Windows, then their choice of os is the least of their problems.

[blastus]

You're right it is just a computer program. If you see my original post in this thread, I simply made a 'tongue-in-cheek' comment about people who 'bash' Windows (actually it would apply to any OS). My response that you quoted was directed at another poster who seemed to read an entire book into a simple attempt at light-hearted sarcasm. In a nutshell, I wasn't commenting about OS bashing, just the people who seem to enjoy doing it.

You should bring your message to Linux Hater's Blog (http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/) I read some of that blog, but can't take much of it seriously. The guy is a raving lunatic who insults people. It's one thing to criticize a product, it's another to insult the people who developed that product and the people who use it.

However, if someone wants to constructively criticize then we should welcome it because it can help make Ubuntu a better product.

[koenn]

You might not be aware that there is a big difference between criticism and ridicule. I don't know of a single OS that's exempt from criticism. However, I object to ridiculing any operating system, because every one I've had experience with (Commodore, CP/M, Unix, Zenix, OS/2, DOS, all Windows variations, Several Linux variations, Some Mac OS variations) have contributed innovations that don't deserve ridicule.
I'm aware there's a difference between criticism and ridicule. It's just that threads that complain about windows bashing usually don't make that distinction. And seeing that we're in a thread titled "Stop transforming that forum in a permanent bashing to other OS", I gathered some generalization was justified.

[blastus]

I see. Anyways this whole thing is silly I say to each his own. I think it's silly when people say things like "that's why people don't use Linux, because of you window bashers" Where do they get this crap from? If someone won't use Linux because some of it's users bash Windows, then their choice of os is the least of their problems.

Exactly. People should use whatever they want for their own reasons. Because of windows bashers, or Mac bashers or whatever, is not a valid reason.

[koenn]

You're reading a lot into a statement. It's almost as if you're creating 'strawman' to debate with yourself.

Ok, I read your statement "A neurosis characterised by an uncanny desire to ridicule the operating system that probably taught you how to use computers in the first place." as "Most people start with using computers that run Windows. Later, when they've start using Linux, they seem to feel an unjustified need to ridicule Windows".

My point was that people who used both OS'es are better placed to compare them than people who used only one of them. I don't see any straw men in there.

[koenn]

Please. I learned how to use computers long before Windows was in existence. However, Windows does 'teach' many computer concepts to those who build or set up computers themselves. I made the assumption that if you're on this forum, you aren't a user that considers a computer an appliance, and isn't even aware what an OS is. If you read the posts on this forum, how many people are applying Windows installation and configuration concepts, when they ask questions on the support forums? That's because they learned to use computers with a Windows machine.
I know those posts of people who try to apply Windows concepts to Linux. That's why I said that on a Windows machine, you learn to use Windows. It isn't until you've had experience with 2 or more OS'es, and see how they deal with the same problems in different ways, that you actually begin to learn something about computers.

[etnlIcarus]

To be honest, I find unintelligible trolls like yse more patience-testing than OS bashing. When the OP cries 'linux fanboy/elitist' in response to any criticism leveled at him, a thread like this is merely a self-serving wank, aimed at reassuring the OP of his own righteous indignation.

Someone let me know when yse finally gets banned. We'll have drinks and play celebrat.mid (http://www.irevan.com/pam/celebrat.mid) on a loop.


It seems the OP doesn't want to be considered a human for some reason, so he has left. :)

Jim

...close enough!

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7917/champq.jpg

celebrat.mid (http://www.irevan.com/pam/celebrat.mid)

[blastus]

Nothing wrong with bashing, provides perspective.

Cartman has spoken :)