Ubuntu haters

[forrestcupp]

Why in the world does it seem like there are so many Ubuntu haters on here? It seems like there has been an influx of forum members who make it a point to tell us all how crappy Ubuntu is and how much better other distros are.

This is a forum for Ubuntu for crying out loud, hence the name of the forum. I'm not saying people who use other distros shouldn't come here, but is it really necessary to come here and bash the distro that this forum was created for?

There are forums for other distros that you can hang out in. Maybe it's more appropriate to talk about how much better Mint or Arch is than Ubuntu in the Mint and Arch forums.

[pwnst*r]

horse. death.

[Tristam Green]

Why in the world does it seem like there are so many Ubuntu haters on here? It seems like there has been an influx of forum members who make it a point to tell us all how crappy Ubuntu is and how much better other distros are.

This is a forum for Ubuntu for crying out loud, hence the name of the forum. I'm not saying people who use other distros shouldn't come here, but is it really necessary to come here and bash the distro that this forum was created for?

There are forums for other distros that you can hang out in. Maybe it's more appropriate to talk about how much better Mint or Arch is than Ubuntu in the Mint and Arch forums.

Glad I'm not the only one who's seen this shift recently.

I came to UF first and foremost as an Ubuntu forum, and secondly as a general Linux forum, and I consider(ed) it as such because of the relative lack of "x distro is king, this one stinks" rhetoric.

I'd very much like to see a return to that mentality on the part of all users.

[mwparis]

I'd just ignore it. When one is googling around, looking for a solution to a *nix problem, the Ubuntu Forum always comes up near the top (if not the top) and, personally, I find it to be incredibly useful in my day-to-day coding, etc. They're probably just little kids in any case.

[Scubdup]

I like it to be honest. After trying another distro some time ago which was supposed to be very good for newbies and which had a forum of raving acolytes I walked away when I couldn't solve a number of hardware issues.

For a long time I figured if that one was my best hope then there was no point trying other distros.

Then I decided to try again, this time with Ubuntu, and haven't looked back. Sure there have been one or two minor probs but nothing major. In fact initial installation was an experience bordering on an epiphany - "Can it really be this easy?".

The fact there are a few dissenting voices reassures me this is a legitimate forum where the few concerns are because there are few problems (relatively) and not because such naysayers are discouraged.

Also, while I'm sure Ubuntu is going to stay part of my computing setup (and rightly so, because it was the renown Ubuntu has that drew me to Linux in the first place) I will probably try a few other distros in the future to see what I like.

[kikoman]

A lot of people make the internet as their outlet in venting their frustrations.

[Eisenwinter]

It's not that there are Ubuntu haters, it's just that you view Ubuntu as the god-almighty, and therefore every little flaw it has which is pointed out, you get mad about and consider it to be a troll/hate message.

If people really hated Ubuntu, they wouldn't bother coming here.

[bashveank]

I do it, occasionally, to combat "group-think." The fact is that all computers and all OS' are, more or less, the same, and it's annoying to see so many treat Ubuntu as the be all, end all, in the computing world.

[mips]

It's not that there are Ubuntu haters, it's just that you view Ubuntu as the god-almighty, and therefore every little flaw it has which is pointed out, you get mad about and consider it to be a troll/hate message.

If people really hated Ubuntu, they wouldn't bother coming here.

Agreed.

I don't use Ubuntu, but Arch. I will however still recommend Ubuntu or Mint to people.

[liviubero]

Ubuntu was the the only distro which I could install on my computer, due to harware stuff.
It was the only which worked out of the box.
OpenSuse failed the test in the moment where it didn't recognized my graphic card and where it didn't had a pppoeconf command or 'apropos ppp' wouldn't give me any output.
Other distros failed in the same way.
Ubuntu is the only distro which gets a new version every 6 months and these are real versions, not just updates.

One of the strenghts of Ubuntu is its apt-get and the package managing system.
In Ubuntu you just apt-get autoremove things and youre done.

Thank you Ubuntu developers!

[mips]

Ubuntu is the only distro which gets a new version every 6 months and these are real versions, not just updates.



:lolflag:

[kelvin spratt]

It's not that there are Ubuntu haters, it's just that you view Ubuntu as the god-almighty, and therefore every little flaw it has which is pointed out, you get mad about and consider it to be a troll/hate message.

If people really hated Ubuntu, they wouldn't bother coming here.

I also agree 100% with this statement most people have used Ubuntu in the past and may use it in the future.
threads like this are very dangerous.

[will1911a1]

One of the strenghts of Ubuntu is its apt-get and the package managing system.
In Ubuntu you just apt-get autoremove things and youre done.

Thank you Ubuntu developers!

Is this a troll or is he serious? I can't tell. :(

[Eisenwinter]

Ubuntu is the only distro which gets a new version every 6 months and these are real versions, not just updates.

One of the strenghts of Ubuntu is its apt-get and the package managing system.
In Ubuntu you just apt-get autoremove things and youre done.

Thank you Ubuntu developers!Are you kidding me? :lolflag:

[batharoy]

Ubuntu was the the only distro which I could install on my computer, due to harware stuff.
It was the only which worked out of the box.

Ditto for me, when/if the others work OTB then I will try them too.

[Skripka]

Are you kidding me? :lolflag:

It is funny how all the Archers on UF are taking exception to this ;)

[Eisenwinter]

It is funny how all the Archers on UF are taking exception to this ;)
Pacman ftw ;)

[regala]

Ubuntu was the the only distro which I could install on my computer, due to harware stuff.
It was the only which worked out of the box.
OpenSuse failed the test in the moment where it didn't recognized my graphic card and where it didn't had a pppoeconf command or 'apropos ppp' wouldn't give me any output.
Other distros failed in the same way.
Ubuntu is the only distro which gets a new version every 6 months and these are real versions, not just updates.


I tend to agree with that, it is advisable to update more often. But, you know, here I use a distro which I update every day or so, and there is always new software. I don't have to massively upgrade every 6 months to update my system. That's no point at all, and for sure, Ubuntu has it right to do it this way, but sometimes it had it completely wrong in effects: Hardy, though an LTS release, wasn't finished in respect to its Long-Term Support claims, and Intrepid was released with a BROKEN kernel just to please that "Release this day, even though what we ship doesn't work" policy...
I use Gentoo at home and at work (I use Debian for a server and Ubuntu for several Desktops in a student-related group) and although they do not release every 6 months (Sir, yes, Sir), I think my Desktop is more up to date than yours will ever be (the unstable tree in Gentoo is far ahead Jaunty), but it doesn't mean anything.
Updates are not to bring you the latest cool thingy feature you will never use: they're here to fix bugs, and to improve stability of your computing environment. Period. To that concern, Ubuntu has failed me a lot of times.



One of the strenghts of Ubuntu is its apt-get and the package managing system.


well, for this one, you should have searched a little bit on Google, and, as we say here in France, roll your tongue 7 times in your mouth :)
Apt is Debian's legacy to Ubuntu.



In Ubuntu you just apt-get autoremove things and youre done.

Thank you Ubuntu developers!

Ubuntu developers have nothing to do with that. Or maybe a little. APT was created more than ten years ago for Debian management, and it hasn't changed for Ubuntu. Interestingly, Ubuntu uses the Debian package management system from the start and never had to change anything as this is one hell of a package system, as you noticed :)

[BGFG]

@ Forrestcup,
It's basically pick on the popular kid syndrome. I think if Shuttleworth wasn't a billionaire and just a 'regular' guy, there would be no problem.
In this community, IMO, as soon as something becomes percieved as 'mainstream' or approaching that, criticism begins and those that can will move away to a distro that is a little 'out of reach' of the average user. Hence Arch's popularity growth.

Notice some threads complaining that there are too many Arch based distros now ? To them it's great, and everyone should use it! but not everyone should use it.

[RiceMonster]

Agreed.

I don't use Ubuntu, but Arch. I will however still recommend Ubuntu or Mint to people.

Same here. I don't hate Ubuntu at all. I always recommend Ubuntu to first time Linux users.


Notice some threads complaining that there are too many Arch based distros now ? To them it's great, and everyone should use it! but not everyone should use it.

How could there be a thread complaining there's too many Arch based distros when there's really only just Arch? You are right though, not everyone should use Arch, thats why a lot of people here are using Ubuntu or something else. Plus, I'm not really noticing Arch users ripping on Ubuntu.

[Simian Man]

There is a *lot* of misinformed praising of Ubuntu here. liviubero is a perfect, almost too-perfect, example of that. People, like me, who have been using Linux since before Ubuntu existed tend to be annoyed by crap like that and feel the need to point it out.

I don't use Ubuntu any more (tried it to see what the fuss was about), but I stick around here to help beginners. Although I find myself in dumb arguments more often than not. I should probably leave.

[BGFG]

Same here. I don't hate Ubuntu at all. I always recommend Ubuntu to first time Linux users.

I think you and mips get it. Why can't the others ? Persons new to GNU/Linux need a good start. Ubuntu provides one. Where they go, what they use, what they learn. Is up to them.

[Johnsie]

The term 'hater' is a strong word. I use Ubuntu and like it, but that doesn't mean I have to like everything about it. That doesn't mean I hate Ubuntu.

If something flips me off about Ubuntu then I will say. I'm not going to go around acting as if Ubuntu is perfect when there are some major issues that get on my nerves. If people ignore the problems they will not go away, and if they don't discuss things then Ubuntu could take a bad route

[kelvin spratt]

We all recommend Ubuntu to newcomers remember most of use started here. Then we we moved on to other things it just happens that arch fits the bill better than the rest

[BGFG]

Same here. I don't hate Ubuntu at all. I always recommend Ubuntu to first time Linux users.



How could there be a thread complaining there's too many Arch based distros when there's really only just Arch? You are right though, not everyone should use Arch, thats why a lot of people here are using Ubuntu or something else. Plus, I'm not really noticing Arch users ripping on Ubuntu.

Sorry, didn't mean arch users ripping on Ubuntu, but there are some users (not arch ones specifically) who use Arch or Gentoo and such distros, just to feel like part of a more exclusive club. But if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

[regala]

It's basically pick on the popular kid syndrome. I think if Shuttleworth wasn't a billionaire and just a 'regular' guy, there would be no problem.


that's not totally true. The real problem with Mark Shuttleworth is that he's trying to be the Linux's Steve Jobs, a kind of advocate that could bring GNU/Linux to be "Desktop-ready". The fact and the matter is that he's sometimes right, but frankly misleading as Linux has been Desktop-ready since at least the time they released Dapper.
I don't despise him, but I despise his manners: being a millionaire and giving money to a community, does not make you the head of anything. Especially when Ubuntu has not really contributed anything of value (the notification system maybe being the first and only thing of value for that matter)
Personally I think that Mark Shuttleworth gave the GNU/Linux ecosystem a refreshing breeze in terms of manpower, but is constantly selling turd fish to the world when he says "Linux is not Desktop-ready". His distro is, for christ's sake, so why does he keep complaining about that ?



In this community, IMO, as soon as something becomes percieved as 'mainstream' or approaching that, criticism begins and those that can will move away to a distro that is a little 'out of reach' of the average user. Hence Arch's popularity growth.


I feel insulted :)
Linux users are not all script kiddies who want to be the only users of their killer OS, some are real grown-ups that can see that Ubuntu brought a new and bright focus on GNU/Linux systems. But some Ubuntu claims on their very site are, at best, false informations, at worst, IP infringing claims. :)
Caesar contributed some cool things, it is not cool for Brutus to tell people he did these cool things.



Notice some threads complaining that there are too many Arch based distros now ? To them it's great, and everyone should use it! but not everyone should use it.

as Ubuntu. Security sensitive admins shouldn't use Ubuntu if they care for their jobs. Every man his specialty.

[Calmatory]

Ubuntu is just another fish in the pond. One of the biggest, but not perfect. Some people don't like it. Some do. There is nothing special in Ubuntu really.

Nothing to see here. Just yet another distro. Move along.

[mips]

It is funny how all the Archers on UF are taking exception to this ;)

My exception was not due to apt/aptitude but the general comments that were made. Wonder if it was serious or a troll post though, sounded serious. If there was no Arch/pacman I would still be using some form of Debian(based)/apt distro.

[mkendall]

Why in the world does it seem like there are so many Ubuntu haters on here?

Mainly because its mama dresses it funny.

[Thelasko]

I've recently found myself in the position where some may call me an Ubuntu "hater." Really, I don't hate Ubuntu, I love it! Because I love Ubuntu I want it to become better. Please don't confuse my criticism with hate.

Just because software is free, doesn't mean we should hold it to different standards. I hold Ubuntu to very high standards.

It seems that some people feel that Ubuntu can do no wrong. This is a symptom of groupthink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink), and it's very dangerous.

The same goes for criticism of Microsoft. Sure, some things they do are wrong, but no one mentions the good stuff.

[Eisenwinter]

Ubuntu is just another fish in the pond. One of the biggest, [...]
How do you define "big", though? By the distro's amount of users? by its' legacy? by its' "celebrity status"?

Because if you mean by legacy, for example, I'd say Debian and Slackware are far, far bigger.

[issih]

Tall poppy syndrome. Fair criticism is actually important and valuable, frankly though, the minute a criticism is levelled at ubuntu you get the zealots coming out and slamming people, and the same goes for those that praise it. It says more about online communities than anything else really.

I do think there is a core of linux users who do want to remain special and apart, and there are also a group who just want to slam people for daring to question anything about OSS software, because it has to them become a holy crusade, not a tool. I find both groups irritating, but they aren't going to go anywhere so we have to live with them.

As far as I'm concerned if Ubuntu achieves nothing more with Shuttleworths millions than increase the exposure of linux to the general populace, then it will have been money well spent. Every single person who got started in Linux because of Ubuntu owes thanks to him for that, regardless of if they then move on to use another distro. Ubuntu's main drive has been to get people to try it, and that is an important and useful thing (imo) and certainly hasn't been something linux has found easy to achieve historically.

[Mehall]

How do you define "big", though? By the distro's amount of users? by its' legacy? by its' "celebrity status"?

Because if you mean by legacy, for example, I'd say Debian and Slackware are far, far bigger.

Well, yes.

But by that manner, Windows Pedigree lasts longer than most Distro's. You need to go the BSD/Unix route to beat them.

I actually would call Ubuntu one of the bigger.

Slack, Arch, Debian, Ubuntu and RHEL, with Novell trailing a bit further, then you get your Gentoo and Mandrivas and then everything else in various order.

[forrestcupp]

It's not that there are Ubuntu haters, it's just that you view Ubuntu as the god-almighty, and therefore every little flaw it has which is pointed out, you get mad about and consider it to be a troll/hate message.
No, I don't view Ubuntu as god-almighty. I rarely even use it. But I have used it a lot in the past, and I know it has issues.

My point is that this is an Ubuntu forum. We don't really need people here actively flaunting how much better their distro is than Ubuntu. There's nothing wrong with criticism as long as the intent is to solve problems; this forum is here to solve problems. It's when the intent of criticism is to tear down that it becomes unacceptable.

My point isn't that Ubuntu is "god-almighty", but rather that this is an Ubuntu forum and there's a lot of "tear down" criticism going on here that may fit better elsewhere.


Then we we moved on to other things it just happens that arch fits the bill better than the restThat's opinion. Some people don't want to make it harder to set their system up. I've been experienced with Linux since before Ubuntu back in the days when you had to set everything up manually. I enjoy the fact that some distros have more modern implementations so that you can pretty much get the same things done without doing it the hard way.

But to each his own. I understand why Arch is great for some.

[Name change]

Well I see the problem mostly in that there is not that small group of Ubuntu user which perceive Ubuntu as an religion or a cult of some sort.
And they are preaching the gospel of it to every and anyone.
Also most of this users are hating everything that's not Ubuntu.
From Widonows and Microsoft to KDE...
That's why someone might say that there is a Ubuntu hating sentiment among some, but you must understand that to some extent it was brought by members of Ubuntu community that don't understand that some might prefer Windows Vista over Ubuntu (I know it's sacrilege :D).

BTW: I'm an Arch user, but I did used Kubuntu until recently.

[kelvin spratt]

No, I don't view Ubuntu as god-almighty. I rarely even use it. But I have used it a lot in the past, and I know it has issues.

So if you don't use Ubuntu yourself why start a thread you know is going to be flame bait?

[Giant Speck]

Do we really need another "why blah blah hate?" thread?

[ishanaba]

Although some people leg-down and hate ubnutu, The best help forum is this I have ever met.From the begining I learned lots of things from this Forum and no needed to be voted !!!ubuntu is the most simple and best free service provider even in Linux world.

Best wishes on Future'
and thank you very much who helps us free and in a reliable manner.
Thank You !!!

[dasunst3r]

Speaking of hating on stuff, it's all about the tone. Let's take Apple as an example. I can get the point across in two ways:

1. I find alternatives that allow me to self-service my product, provide better value, and provide more control over my "experience."
2. Apple's products are overpriced, full of DRM bull****, and comes with an absolutely wonderful reality distortion field controlled by Steve Jobs! You know Apple knows what's best with you, so follow it and bow down to him!

Getting back on topic, the only gripe I have about Ubuntu is its look. Fortunately, I can "self-service" this issue and easily change the look.

[Skripka]

Do we really need another "why blah blah hate?" thread?

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

[der_joachim]

My point is that this is an Ubuntu forum. We don't really need people here actively flaunting how much better their distro is than Ubuntu. There's nothing wrong with criticism as long as the intent is to solve problems; this forum is here to solve problems. It's when the intent of criticism is to tear down that it becomes unacceptable.

It is the posters in the cafe that have pointed me to Arch. Furthermore the Other OS Section helped me along in the beginning. One of the discussions that regularly came up, was indeed Ubuntu versus Insert-Distro-Name-Here. Since the Other OS Forums were killed off, many of these discussions were continued in the cafe.

The reason that Arch is regularly brought up, is that it is one of many logical steps after Ubuntu. It is meant for more advanced users, while Ubuntu is a bit more PG13. The intended audiences ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Having said that, people keep coming back here to help others along. Do they dislike Ubuntu? As many people have already pointed out, no. If I recommend arch to other people, it is not because I hate Ubuntu. It is because I think that they are ready for a more 'difficult' distribution. Is that a bad thing?

I have yet to read a thread that 'tears down' Ubuntu, written up by a well-spoken person, who has used Ubuntu for some time and for some reason is forsaking it. Ubuntu deserves its fair share of criticism, but which OS/distro doesn't? I've had a few good reasons (and one slightly less informed one) to leave Ubuntu.

One of the things that make me really, really sick is the 'This is a Ubuntu forum' argument. After the discussion about closing down Other OS, this was regularly brought up and I am reading it here again. As long as people are polite and constructive, this censoring is totally uncalled for.

[KiwiNZ]

As long as the rules are followed all members are valued members.

[motang]

I'd just ignore it. When one is googling around, looking for a solution to a *nix problem, the Ubuntu Forum always comes up near the top (if not the top) and, personally, I find it to be incredibly useful in my day-to-day coding, etc. They're probably just little kids in any case.
Yep I feel the same way. I get search results from Ubuntuforums all the time and I am very much grateful for that. I also ignore the haters, they peopbably do all that because of how popular Ubuntu has become. We really should hate other distros (IMO) and we should really try to get along.

[s.fox]

This seems very similar to the thread "why all the hate" that was closed not so long ago.

[mips]

This seems very similar to the thread "why all the hate" that was closed not so long ago.

That was a different kind of hate, MS/KDE hate :biggrin:

[phrostbyte]

It's because "Other OS discussions" was removed. Mods used to move X is better then Ubuntu threads there pretty often, so the Cafe was pretty clean of that stuff.

[Sand & Mercury]

As someone whom has just installed Arch Linux over Kubuntu, I feel I am now a member of a select elite, and superior to all others on this forum.

From here on I intend to assert my newfound superiority by frequently pointing out the faults/shortcomings of Ubuntu at every opportunity. Anyone praising Ubuntu's (admittedly numerous) merits will be branded a noob and dealt with in a suitably condescending and mocking tone. I would also like to say that anyone who uses the terms "M$" or similar will be flamed without hesitation or remorse.

Thankyou! :KS

[swoll1980]

I tend to agree with that, it is advisable to update more often. But, you know, here I use a distro which I update every day or so, and there is always new software. I don't have to massively upgrade every 6 months to update my system. That's no point at all, and for sure, Ubuntu has it right to do it this way, but sometimes it had it completely wrong in effects: Hardy, though an LTS release, wasn't finished in respect to its Long-Term Support claims, and Intrepid was released with a BROKEN kernel just to please that "Release this day, even though what we ship doesn't work" policy...
I use Gentoo at home and at work (I use Debian for a server and Ubuntu for several Desktops in a student-related group) and although they do not release every 6 months (Sir, yes, Sir), I think my Desktop is more up to date than yours will ever be (the unstable tree in Gentoo is far ahead Jaunty), but it doesn't mean anything.
Updates are not to bring you the latest cool thingy feature you will never use: they're here to fix bugs, and to improve stability of your computing environment. Period. To that concern, Ubuntu has failed me a lot of times.



well, for this one, you should have searched a little bit on Google, and, as we say here in France, roll your tongue 7 times in your mouth :)
Apt is Debian's legacy to Ubuntu.



Ubuntu developers have nothing to do with that. Or maybe a little. APT was created more than ten years ago for Debian management, and it hasn't changed for Ubuntu. Interestingly, Ubuntu uses the Debian package management system from the start and never had to change anything as this is one hell of a package system, as you noticed :)

The poster made no assertion that these things were developed by the Ubuntu team, only that they are strengths of the Ubuntu distrobution, which they are. I think the reasoning behind the Ubuntu bashing has to do with status. As Ubuntu is considered to be a distro for "noobs" as people grow beyond "noob" status some (I call these people children, because that's probably what they are) might feel the need to separate themselves from the "noobs" by installing a "leet" distro like Arch. Now that they are no longer using Ubuntu they (the children) feel the need to bash it, much like the Windows converts bash Windows, because they think they are more "leet" than Windows users. Once these children grow up they will realize how gay this dumb crap was.

[FuturePilot]

As someone whom has just installed Arch Linux over Kubuntu, I feel I am now a member of a select elite, and superior to all others on this forum.

From here on I intend to assert my newfound superiority by frequently pointing out the faults/shortcomings of Ubuntu at every opportunity. Anyone praising Ubuntu's (admittedly numerous) merits will be branded a noob and dealt with in a suitably condescending and mocking tone. I would also like to say that anyone who uses the terms "M$" or similar will be flamed without hesitation or remorse.

Thankyou! :KS

I think you just summed up what I was trying to put into words for a while now. However I wouldn't single out only Arch users doing that. I wouldn't even go as far to say all Arch users are doing that as some have even said that they still recommend Ubuntu to new users. However I have noticed a lot more of what you basically said going on here.


The poster made no assertion that these things were developed by the Ubuntu team, only that they are strengths of the Ubuntu distrobution, witch they are. I think the reasoning behind the Ubuntu bashing has to do with status. As Ubuntu is considered to be a distro for "noobs" as people grow beyond "noob" status some (I call these people children, because that's probably what they are) might feel the need to separate themselves from the "noobs" by installing a "leet" distro like Arch. Now that they are no longer using Ubuntu they (the children) feel the need to bash it, much like the Windows converts bash Windows, because the think they are more "leet" than Windows users. Once these children grow up they will realize how gay this dumb crap was.

This makes a lot of sense.

[Bleskojd]

I don´t get it. We should "hate" Windows OS.

To discuss about what was stolen from which distro is dumb. If you want Ubuntu use Ubuntu, if you want Debian use Debian and so on...

We should be thankful that they are many distros of Linux so everyone can pick his "optional distro.

What are you talking about? About how good is your current distro? Praise him but do not affect others with your stupid opinions.

This make sense like discussion about what type of girls is the best. Everyone have his own way of thinking and picking.

So stop be "pro with ultimate distro" because something like that does not exist.

[Twitch6000]

I don´t get it. We should "hate" Windows OS.

To discuss about what was stolen from which distro is dumb. If you want Ubuntu use Ubuntu, if you want Debian use Debian and so on...

We should be thankful that they are many distros of Linux so everyone can pick his "optional distro.

What are you talking about? About how good is your current distro? Praise him but do not affect others with your stupid opinions.

This make sense like discussion about what type of girls is the best. Everyone have his own way of thinking and picking.

So stop be "pro with ultimate distro" because something like that does not exist.
Uhmm why hate windows.... I see no reason why to hate such a decent os <.<.Well okay vista and me are exceptions,but XP and 2000 are great and with the right knowledge ... windows is actually a decent os :/.

[mips]

I think the reasoning behind the Ubuntu bashing has to do with status. As Ubuntu is considered to be a distro for "noobs" as people grow beyond "noob" status some (I call these people children, because that's probably what they are) might feel the need to separate themselves from the "noobs" by installing a "leet" distro like Arch. Now that they are no longer using Ubuntu they (the children) feel the need to bash it, much like the Windows converts bash Windows, because they think they are more "leet" than Windows users. Once these children grow up they will realize how gay this dumb crap was.

:cry:

Which Arch users are bashing ubuntu? Specifying a preference with reasons for it is not bashing.

The reasons for me using Arch has absolutely nothing to do with what you stated.

What's wrong with being gay? Are gay people dumb?

I think it is time for me to move on as I get the impression I have outstayed my welcome here.

[WatchingThePain]

I can bitch about Arch if it makes you feel better.
Turned out to be a right bugger.
Had to pretty much rewrite xorg.conf myself thus now using pclos.
Then I hear Arch goes straight on with some folks. I like Ubuntu because to date I have used it more than any other distro.
Everyone needs a starting point as no one is born a Linux expert, even though it may seem that way.
So for me it gets easier lol..Ubuntu --> pclos--> Next maybe: Qemu (or something like that, it's Linux for kids).

[forrestcupp]

Let me make something clear, since I'm the original poster.

I'm not accusing everyone who uses Arch or Mint or whatever of being an Ubuntu hater. There are obviously people here who prefer Arch and other distros who are not here to tear down Ubuntu. If you're one of those people, this thread is not about you.

I was writing about a lot of posts recently that are obviously anti-Ubuntu with no intention of being productive at all. If you didn't write one of those posts, then I wasn't talking about you, no matter what distro you use.

Let me make another thing clear. I don't care who hates Ubuntu; it's anyone's right to hate it and love another distro. It doesn't bother me that people hate Ubuntu.

It's just common sense that you don't go to someone's home and insult them.

[nothingspecial]

I tried Arch.

First time, I was too drunk.

Second time, I got it all configured and working and thought "b******s to this I`ve got better things to do" and reinstalled Ubuntu.

I just want to compute with my computer and Ubuntu does it for me.

I`m really not that interested in "the arch way".

[ezsit]

From a comment regarding apt-get and the package management system used by Ubuntu:


You mean that thing they stole from Debian?

Stealing does not happen in open source, that is the point of open source software - nothing to steal since all is free to everyone. However, Ubuntu no more "stole" anything than the Debian community "stole" the source code to 30,000 different open source projects that make up the whole of Debian. See how ridiculous the words "steal" or "stolen" sound in the context of open source software?

C'mon, Ubuntu is just Debian made prettier and easier to install and configure, you know that much? Right?

[swoll1980]

:cry:

Which Arch users are bashing ubuntu? Specifying a preference with reasons for it is not bashing.

The reasons for me using Arch has absolutely nothing to do with what you stated.

What's wrong with being gay? Are gay people dumb?

I think it is time for me to move on as I get the impression I have outstayed my welcome here.

Not all Arch users fall into this category, and not all people that act this way are Arch Users, though I tend to notice that most of the types of posters I'm referring to in my post are Arch users. Where I'm from gay has has nothing to do with sexual preference it's term given to people doing dumb things to fit in.

[Fenris_rising]

I'm an Ubuntu person :) Firstly because it's the first one I tried that worked OOTB. There has since been much terminal work but all of my own volition as I wanted to try stuff out.

I have played with a few other Linux variants which have also proved as workable, although a couple choked on the wireless card, but they offer me nothing I don't already have with 8.04 so it's the one for me.

Theres enough rubbish spouted left, right, and center about Windows (No I'm not a fan, I'm Free at last) Linux users of all variants should stick together.

Whatever flavour of Linux your using it's LINUX and each variant is equally valid to those who choose one or other to use for their own reasons and WE all benefit from the interoperability of open source (I am a big fan!)

regards

Fenris

[Vorian Grey]

I haven't used Ubuntu full time in almost a year. Yet, I still come here on a regular basis. Linux is Linux. Newcomers need help. Children need correcting. I still feel connected to the Community. Those who hate should ask themselves why.

I'm just waiting for Jaunty to get into beta or maybe RC and I'm going to give it another good try. Who knows, I might wind up using it full time. :)

[bodhi.zazen]

Why in the world does it seem like there are so many Ubuntu haters on here? It seems like there has been an influx of forum members who make it a point to tell us all how crappy Ubuntu is and how much better other distros are.

This is a forum for Ubuntu for crying out loud, hence the name of the forum. I'm not saying people who use other distros shouldn't come here, but is it really necessary to come here and bash the distro that this forum was created for?

There are forums for other distros that you can hang out in. Maybe it's more appropriate to talk about how much better Mint or Arch is than Ubuntu in the Mint and Arch forums.

Top reasons.

#1 - Trolls. Don't feed them, use the report button.

#2 - Lots of people feel that to promote their OS the should bash another. Tons of variants on this, windows bashing, Fedora bashing, etc. If you think about it, bashing does little to promote an OS and is immature. Every OS has advantages and disadvantages.

#3 - Elitism. Some people are just like this, they think they are better because they run <insert_OS>. This is a different variation of immaturity. If you try enough OS you will see the differences are (IMO) very minor. Most everyone uses the same packages (vmlinuz, gnome, KDE, apache, openssh, etc, etc).

#4 - You are taking this too seriously, especially if you are still reading this thread / post :lolflag: .

Seriously though, use the report button to report trolling and OS bashing.

[BGFG]

:cry:

Which Arch users are bashing ubuntu? Specifying a preference with reasons for it is not bashing.

The reasons for me using Arch has absolutely nothing to do with what you stated.

What's wrong with being gay? Are gay people dumb?

I think it is time for me to move on as I get the impression I have outstayed my welcome here.

Crap, Arch users are being singled out undeservedly so. All the arch users I've encountered in here have been helpful to me. Sorry if Arch got singled out as one of the elite distros, but it really is and It's worthy of the term elite.

Anyways, sorry if anything i said offended. Meant no disrespect.

[kelvin spratt]

The original post implies that if you use any distribution other than Ubuntu you should not criticize it on this forum,
The problem is by making such a statement then bragging you don't use Ubuntu but you used it in the past is implying you don't like or in the words of the post hate Ubuntu.

This is not meant to criticise the poster but to point out that many members and moderaters and staff members do not use Ubuntu.
This does not mean they hate Ubuntu
It actually means they still care even though they might not use Ubuntu,

And yes I use Arch, Gentoo, Debian, Slackware, XP, Vista windows7, and in the past Ubuntu,
I prefer Arch. and Parsix that is not a statement that I hate Ubuntu or any other distro I also find this forum as with Arch and Gentoo a place to solve problems with other distros
Gentoo forums solve a lot of Linux problems as does Arch and Ubuntu.

Constructive criticism is actually a very good thing slagging things of for the sake of it does nothing but cause bad feeling.

[swoll1980]

The original post implies that if you use any distribution other than Ubuntu you should not criticize it on this forum,


The op implied no such thing, and I'm surprised you would waste your time typing that long response to an argument that was never made. Not being rude, but maybe you should read it again, because either you misunderstood it, or you have some other problem I couldn't possibly understand.

[bakedbeans4life]

Distributions such as Gentoo and LFS are considered esoteric compared with Ubuntu, Fedora, Mandriva etc.

People resent the easy path to enlightenment by others when they have had to struggle and sacrifice to attain the knowledge.

What would you take, the easy route with the Sat-Nav voiced by some sexy female nymphet? Or the back to basics grassroots approach where they give you the instructions to compose a map and build a compass but only give you a vague idea of where you are in the world?

Where would you money be?

[whoop]

Maybe there are more "haters" because ubuntu is getting more mainstream. There are a lot more very unexperienced computer users trying out ubuntu.
They expect things to run exactly like windows or there vcr, then they blame the developers for everything that they don't understand.

I think there are even ubuntu users that don't even know that they are running a linux distribution.

So basically: more mainstream == more noobs == more haters

[FuturePilot]

The original post implies that if you use any distribution other than Ubuntu you should not criticize it on this forum,
The problem is by making such a statement then bragging you don't use Ubuntu but you used it in the past is implying you don't like or in the words of the post hate Ubuntu.

This is not meant to criticise the poster but to point out that many members and moderaters and staff members do not use Ubuntu.
This does not mean they hate Ubuntu
It actually means they still care even though they might not use Ubuntu,

And yes I use Arch, Gentoo, Debian, Slackware, XP, Vista windows7, and in the past Ubuntu,
I prefer Arch. and Parsix that is not a statement that I hate Ubuntu or any other distro I also find this forum as with Arch and Gentoo a place to solve problems with other distros
Gentoo forums solve a lot of Linux problems as does Arch and Ubuntu.

Constructive criticism is actually a very good thing slagging things of for the sake of it does nothing but cause bad feeling.

I don't think the OP is talking about constructive criticism. Heck even I have my constructive criticisms on Ubuntu and areas that it could improve upon. No one implied that you can't constructively criticize Ubuntu or that Ubuntu is perfect or anything along those lines. What I have seen lately is that anytime someone mentions something that Ubuntu is good at or has a good implementation of, etc someone comes in and calls them a fanboy for it which makes no sense. Apparently I can't say something good about my distro of choice especially on its official forum? I don't see any logic behind that.

[izizzle]

Some people just use distros which require more knowledge to set up like Arch or Gentoo. So, they taunt the newbies who still use the easy OS's like Ubuntu. and it's not a bad thing, it's just that they're obsessed. :D

[cardinals_fan]

Other people's opinions really shouldn't matter in your choice of OS.

[swoll1980]

What I have seen lately is that anytime someone mentions something that Ubuntu is good at or has a good implementation of, etc someone comes in and calls them a fanboy

Or they say things like Ubuntu stole that from Debian, or that has nothing to do with Ubuntu. I find it hard to believe it has nothing to do with Ubuntu if I'm using Ubuntu, and that feature is available to me it would seem it has a lot to do with Ubuntu whether they developed it, or not

[Primefalcon]

You know what these people don't get though, Ubuntu is making Linux easier for new people....

1. that creates more popularity for Linux overall, as some of those people will feed over into other distro's

2. Some elitist few fee Ububntu is making things too easy, All I can say to that is shut up and go to gentoo forums and distro, that seems to be what you're looking for anyhow...

[Giant Speck]

2. Some elitist few fee Ububntu is making things too easy, All I can say to that is shut up and go to gentoo forums and distro, that seems to be what you're looking for anyhow...

So because they disagree with you, they should take their opinions elsewhere? That isn't a very community-minded opinion, you think?

[Skripka]

So because they disagree with you, they should take their opinions elsewhere? That isn't a very community-minded opinion, you think?

Also considering a great deal of the UF online help offered to new green *buntu users comes from people who have long stopped using *buntu...inviting us non-Ubuntu users to leave is as sure a way of killing the community forum resource as there is.

The thing that has made Ubuntu stand out amongst other distros is this site and the help it offers. take that away, and Ubuntu is just another distro among many.

[Onoskelis]

Only people that truly hate Ubuntu is the Debian community.

I guess it's just jealousy.

[Giant Speck]

Only people that truly hate Ubuntu is the Debian community.

I guess it's just jealousy.

Why would a Debian user feel the need to be jealous of Ubuntu?

[Onoskelis]

Why would a Debian user feel the need to be jealous of Ubuntu?

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=14110

I also wonder that, my good friend. Why do they feel the need to be jealous?

[wolfen69]

You know what these people don't get though, Ubuntu is making Linux easier for new people....

1. that creates more popularity for Linux overall, as some of those people will feed over into other distro's


great insight. that's how i've felt all along.

i think it's a win/win for everyone.

there are numerous (many 1000's) people that started with ubuntu and decided that some other distro was more to their liking. and that's OK. but at least ubuntu had enough presence to initially draw them into the linux world. and that's one less micro-drone.

[Hated On Mostly]

You know what these people don't get though, Ubuntu is making Linux easier for new people....

1. that creates more popularity for Linux overall, as some of those people will feed over into other distro's

2. Some elitist few fee Ububntu is making things too easy, All I can say to that is shut up and go to gentoo forums and distro, that seems to be what you're looking for anyhow...


Primefalcon is right. Too many elitists running around on these forums wanting people to understand, appreciate, and make love to the command line or some other tool/method which people only like because it is the more difficult and unintuitive way of doing something. We know it is easy for you, why can't every one else just find it as easy and appreciate it like you? It is easy for Michael Jordan to dunk too, why can't everyone else just figure it out or train enough to be able to do it. It's just that simple...

Clearly Ubuntu's goal is ease of use and graphical tools for every task a user may want to perform. They advertise these on the main webpage as reasons why people should try it out. Elitists on this forum somehow think that the less than 1% of people world wide who have any interest in understanding computers and operating systems on a deeper level all come to Ubuntu, rather than people wanting to use Ubuntu because it is the easiest linux distribution to use (the horror, we know :cry:). Elitists have well over a dozen other distributions they can use and talk about how fun it is that they are so hard to use, but for some reason they love hating on Ubuntu or trying to convince everyone how everything else is better.

Elitists hanging out on the home forum of the OS they dislike so much (and often using it as well) is probably just similar to boys and girls hitting and teasing those they actually have a crush on, but don't want to admit. I'm sure an internet psychologist can psycho-analyze more thoroughly for us.

[Primefalcon]

I think everyone here is welcome, but the people who obviously aren't happy with Ubuntu and just want to put it down constantly obviously shouldn't be here. Since just being here and putting down the Distro/Community isn't serving any good to anyone, instead it just causes infighting that'll turn people off Linux full stop.

I love Ubuntu, I personaly use the command line a lot, but not everyone likes that, and Ubuntu is trying to make Linux accessible to everyone, if you can't get used to that fact, Ubuntu isn't for you. That's the great thing about Linux, there's choice.

[JackieChan]

Come on people, stop focusing on the big differences and focus on the big similarities! They all preform better than OS X and Windows Vista and they're a lot more light weight.

[swoll1980]

Primefalcon is right. Too many elitists running around on these forums wanting people to understand, appreciate, and make love to the command line or some other tool/method which people only like because it is the more difficult and unintuitive way of doing something. We know it is easy for you, why can't every one else just find it as easy and appreciate it like you? It is easy for Michael Jordan to dunk too, why can't everyone else just figure it out or train enough to be able to do it. It's just that simple...


Or when someone says to a person that made it clear that they were new to Linux "You should try Arch, it's not hard to install" yeah maybe if you know what you are doing. I don't think Arch was the first distro for to many people on this forum for some reason, and it would seem imposable for some one with no knowledge of how the system works, file hierarchies, config files, and such.

[Ericyzfr1]

I would not call them Ubuntu haters, but I am kind of tired to read how good ArchLinux or Mint or whatever else out there is fantastic. I would not even think to go on the Arch Forum and market Ubuntu.
I do not mind comparison regarding technical aspect or practicality, but it can be done with respect and intelligently.

[Vorian Grey]

The problem, it seems to me, is not with an particular OS but with society in general. Everyone seems to take things a wee bit too serious these days. Everything is taken to the extremes. Everyone is totally right in their opinions and so anyone who disagrees with them has to be totally wrong. Someone is always offended.

Everyone just needs to lighten up a little. Take a deep breath and enjoy life. Few things in life are that important.

[WatchingThePain]

@ Vorian

Yes, I think I agree.
I blame all the soap opera's for one.
Most people watch them and think that's how life should be.

[kelvin spratt]

Everyone just needs to lighten up a little. Take a deep breath and enjoy life. Few things in life are that important.

That usually comes with age and is called maturity if I don't like something I don't try to convince everybody its rubbish just move on.
As I said before I don't use Ubuntu anymore but Ubuntu gave me my 1st taste of Linux and like my 1st car I will always have a liking for it and one day no doubt come back to it.

[regala]

Nonsensical rudeness

If you don't understand the ideals of the Ubuntu and Open Source communities, you shouldn't talk about it.
We are trying to help. Telling people that there is a problem (maybe security, or feature-related) with something is not telling them they are ****. It's just pointing out something that could be corrected in the benefit of you and all Ubuntu and Open Source users. We do not hate you. But I hate your way of thinking and blatantly stating things you seem not to even grasp, way which is as narrow as real Ubuntu haters'. That's the real sad point here.

Will go to Gentoo, Arch, Debian, and other distros forums. I feel I'm real done here reading such rude and false claims.

[forrestcupp]

The op implied no such thing, and I'm surprised you would waste your time typing that long response to an argument that was never made. Not being rude, but maybe you should read it again, because either you misunderstood it, or you have some other problem I couldn't possibly understand.Thank you.


I don't think the OP is talking about constructive criticism. Heck even I have my constructive criticisms on Ubuntu and areas that it could improve upon. No one implied that you can't constructively criticize Ubuntu or that Ubuntu is perfect or anything along those lines. What I have seen lately is that anytime someone mentions something that Ubuntu is good at or has a good implementation of, etc someone comes in and calls them a fanboy for it which makes no sense. Apparently I can't say something good about my distro of choice especially on its official forum? I don't see any logic behind that.Thank you. I don't know how many times I have to say that I wasn't talking about constructive criticism, but rather unfruitful criticism that is intended to tear down. If your criticism has been constructive, you're not who I was talking about, so don't be offended.


I think everyone here is welcome, but the people who obviously aren't happy with Ubuntu and just want to put it down constantly obviously shouldn't be here. Since just being here and putting down the Distro/Community isn't serving any good to anyone, instead it just causes infighting that'll turn people off Linux full stop.
Thank you. This is pretty much what I've been trying to say. If you are completely unhappy with Ubuntu, maybe you should either use this forum to talk about other things, or find a forum that suits your interests better.

I guess I'd just like people to understand that it's great if you've moved on and you're happy with something else, but please don't ridicule people because they're happy staying with Ubuntu. And it especially seems inappropriate to do that on Ubuntu's official forum where people just want to come to get help and get involved with their distro's community.

[swoll1980]

Maybe there are more "haters" because ubuntu is getting more mainstream. There are a lot more very unexperienced computer users trying out ubuntu.
They expect things to run exactly like windows or there vcr, then they blame the developers for everything that they don't understand.

I think there are even ubuntu users that don't even know that they are running a linux distribution.

So basically: more mainstream == more noobs == more haters

This argument makes no sense to me, it's like saying why buy a car, when you could build it yourself. I don't know, nor do I intend to learn how my car works, yet I don't hear anyone calling me a noob because I choose not to learn. I'm pretty sure this attitude is reserved for geeks who are picked on in school. I am quite capable of doing most things in Linux, at worst I might have to google something, or post a question in this forum, but yet I still choose to use Ubuntu, so I have to say it's not just for noobs.

[lykwydchykyn]

The reason there are haters is that people are not eating enough pie. Studies show that maintaining an adequate level of dessert-type pie in your diet reduces OS/distro hatred by up to 78%.

Next time you want to go on a forum and beat up on some poor Linux distro or Microsoft OS, try this:
- Get a nice, big piece of chess, pecan, or key lime pie
- Brew some coffee, preferably in a French press with freshly-ground beans
- Consume, in a leisurely fashion

Now, do you feel like bashing an OS? I didn't think so.

Pie.

For the good times.

Paid for by the Ubuntu Forums Pie Coalition

[PurposeOfReason]

Too everyone who wants the elitists to go away, you will kill these forums if you do. You know that alsa problem, that ati problem, the compiz problem, all those problems you had? 50 to 1 odds says it was an elitist who got you through it.

I, myself, have bashed Ubuntu many times. However, I have nothing against the distro, only a good portion of it's user base. I would say since the 7.10/8.04 era, Ubuntu as a community has been infested with ignorance. People going around thanking the Ubuntu devs for a fix with hal. Something they don't deserve credit for (though I give them many props for having an easy distro), expecting everything to just work, wanting it to be just like Windows. It is annoying enough to come here and start a hate party.

As I see it, it isn't so much as anger. I think of it, and feel like it as times, as though I'm one of the few people who have a better (though nowhere near perfect) understanding of computers (hardware and software and how they relate), who are trying so hard to kick down knowledge. Doing what we can to make sure people understand so everything gets easier, so the community can grow and ideas can be made (big or small). Nobody wants to listen, though. They don't care.

They want it fixed, and fixed now. They'll bump their threads ten times in two hours and when you do help them, you try to walk them through it. Teach them. But they don't care. They will rudely complain for the answer and learn nothing. They are just another user who will get more problems and expect the world to fix it. That doesn't work in real life, it shouldn't work here. On all the forums I help/get helped on (arch, gentoo, linux, ubuntu, bsd, xtreme systems, some others I'm forgetting), I have yet to find such a cluster of unwilling people as I do on the Ubuntu forums.

No, I am not bashing. I am not hating. I am responding to the topic of this thread as a question was asked. If I hated Ubuntu, I wouldn't be here, still trying to help.



Too long of a post for you to read? Then you're the kind of person this post is about.

EDIT - A perfect example (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1099651)

[JDorfler]

I'm really not sure what to think of this thread. I know some folks like certain things and some folks dislike certain things. I prefer Ubuntu, but if you looked at my set up, most folks would never know it was Ubuntu unless I told them due to tweaking every little thing I can in order to get exactly what I want.

If you like Arch, which I'd love to learn, and same with Fedora, use that. Heck, my PC back in the States is a Triple Boot. I was just too lazy to triple boot my current notebook due to bandwidth issues where I'm working now.

With that said, there's a difference between stating facts and bashing. I don't hate Windows, but I do prefer to use Linux due to what I see as major flaws in Windows. With this said, I keep Windows around for my Zune and playing games if I feel the urge.

If you are bashing Ubuntu just to bash it, then I feel sorry for you. If you are stating facts on why you prefer a different distro, then by all means post like there is no tomorrow. That's how knowledge is spread. There's an old saying, "knowledge is power". There is nothing but truth in that statement, and that is one of the many reasons I prefer Linux. With everything being open source, no one really hordes the knowledge, thus we can all become as powerful as we wish without being jerks about it.

The best thing I love about Ubuntu, is it was the catalyst to let me get enough guts to start with Linux. I have yet to look back.

[Giant Speck]

- Get a nice, big piece of chess, pecan, or key lime pie

What the hell is "chess pie"?

Oh, and you didn't mention lemon meringue. Therefore:

"RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE UBUNTUSUX RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!"

[Eisenwinter]

I, myself, have bashed Ubuntu many times. However, I have nothing against the distro, only a good portion of it's user base. I would say since the 7.10/8.04 era, Ubuntu as a community has been infested with ignorance.
I agree with that, somewhat.

I wouldn't say all of Ubuntu's users are ignorant, there are very intelligent and knowledable people who use this operating system (one of them being sort of a mentor in Perl for me).

The true problem is how they all act as if Ubuntu is the god-almighty, and the saviour of mankind.

Sure, I used Ubuntu, in fact, most of my Linux "life" was on Ubuntu, but I didn't make it into a religion.

There are fanboys to this side, and fanboys to the other side, and when these two sides clash, the flamewars begin.

[lykwydchykyn]

What the hell is "chess pie"?

I've never actually made one, but from the taste of it I think it's basically everything that will shorten your lifespan and ruin your circulatory system mixed together and stuck into a crust.



Oh, and you didn't mention lemon meringue. Therefore:

"RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE UBUNTUSUX RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!"

Lemon Meringue is for noobs.

[issih]

@lykwydchykyn...

Mmmmn pie :)

Lemon meringue rocks though I do admit key lime is better.

[Giant Speck]

Lemon Meringue is for noobs.

:o

Oh no you di-in't!

[Skripka]

Lemon Meringue is for noobs.

You are now outside the Circle of Trust. Congratulations. You are being watched.

[interllect]

You are now outside the Circle of Trust. Congratulations. You are being watched.

It's the ones inside the circle you have to watch ;)

[forrestcupp]

The reason there are haters is that people are not eating enough pie. Studies show that maintaining an adequate level of dessert-type pie in your diet reduces OS/distro hatred by up to 78%.

Next time you want to go on a forum and beat up on some poor Linux distro or Microsoft OS, try this:
- Get a nice, big piece of chess, pecan, or key lime pie
- Brew some coffee, preferably in a French press with freshly-ground beans
- Consume, in a leisurely fashion

Now, do you feel like bashing an OS? I didn't think so.

Pie.

For the good times.

Paid for by the Ubuntu Forums Pie Coalition

Ahhh.

I feel much better now. That was a darn good piece of chess pie and cup of coffee. :)

And to the lemon meringue pie people, key lime pie is pretty close. But I think coconut cream should have been on the list.

[forrestcupp]

I, myself, have bashed Ubuntu many times. However, I have nothing against the distro, only a good portion of it's user base. I would say since the 7.10/8.04 era, Ubuntu as a community has been infested with ignorance. People going around thanking the Ubuntu devs for a fix with hal. Something they don't deserve credit for (though I give them many props for having an easy distro), expecting everything to just work, wanting it to be just like Windows. It is annoying enough to come here and start a hate party.But the thing is, do we want market share, or do we want the community to be limited to experts? If we want market share, then when it starts to happen, we will inevitably have huge numbers of ignorant people. If we only want a small community of experts, no one should ever complain about hardware makers not supporting Linux.

And what's wrong with expecting "everything to just work". Everything should just work or the OS is irrelevant and noncontemporary.



They want it fixed, and fixed now. They'll bump their threads ten times in two hours and when you do help them, you try to walk them through it. Teach them. But they don't care. They will rudely complain for the answer and learn nothing. They are just another user who will get more problems and expect the world to fix it. That doesn't work in real life, it shouldn't work here. On all the forums I help/get helped on (arch, gentoo, linux, ubuntu, bsd, xtreme systems, some others I'm forgetting), I have yet to find such a cluster of unwilling people as I do on the Ubuntu forums.
I do feel your pain here. It is frustrating when people act that way.

[PurposeOfReason]

But the thing is, do we want market share, or do we want the community to be limited to experts? If we want market share, then when it starts to happen, we will inevitably have huge numbers of ignorant people. If we only want a small community of experts, no one should ever complain about hardware makers not supporting Linux.

And what's wrong with expecting "everything to just work". Everything should just work or the OS is irrelevant and noncontemporary.



Experts? No. Understanding users? Yes. The day has come where it is not acceptable to be ignorant on how to use a computer. I don't care who you are.

[zakany]

Why in the world does it seem like there are so many Ubuntu haters on here?

Why in the world does it seem like there are so many Windows haters on here? Or Macintosh haters? Etc.

Several reasons, actually.

Some aren't shy about Ubuntu's shortcomings because they'd like to see them addressed and Ubuntu improved.

Some have selected a different OS that meets their needs and need validation that their selection was the 'correct' one (never mind that there is no single, correct answer to this question).

Some really think that Ubuntu is deficient and they, too, would like some validation and, perhaps, a hug.

[Tristam Green]

Experts? No. Understanding users? Yes. The day has come where it is not acceptable to be ignorant on how to use a computer. I don't care who you are.

There are plenty of persons in the world who have little need to know the workings of their computers aside from "how to start the word processor", or "how to get to the Internet and e-mail." These are the persons who need their computers and Operating Systems to just work. For those persons, I think "ignorance" is perfectly acceptable.

The uninitiated who are trying to do things on their machines that are either new to them (a new OS) or new in general (writing a new program) deserve to be treated fairly and not as if they are simple-minded for their choices. If they attribute undue credit to groups for fixes, new programs, etc, the key is not to be abrasive, but rather to point them to the correct avenue to show gratitude.

[PurposeOfReason]

There are plenty of persons in the world who have little need to know the workings of their computers aside from "how to start the word processor", or "how to get to the Internet and e-mail." These are the persons who need their computers and Operating Systems to just work. For those persons, I think "ignorance" is perfectly acceptable.

The uninitiated who are trying to do things on their machines that are either new to them (a new OS) or new in general (writing a new program) deserve to be treated fairly and not as if they are simple-minded for their choices. If they attribute undue credit to groups for fixes, new programs, etc, the key is not to be abrasive, but rather to point them to the correct avenue to show gratitude.
That is where we disagree. Gone are those days where you can just have it work and let it be. Look around you, what isn't run by a computer that is modern? People should understand what is happening just as it is smart to know first aid. The basics. That way you can help yourself, let things progress and be able to understand these progressions.

If people are more willing to learn, if they know more, than more advanced things can come. Right now, a lot of what is holding us back is people are not ready. Think of word09. The lack of drop down menus sent people into a fit, but the ribbon is much more effecient. If we are not ready for simple changes for the better because we lack the urge and understanding, how are we supposed to get to the age where computers can aid us in ways we never though of? Implants in your eyes that contain a clock, news readers, a text messaging like app, etc. (I can dream. :))

[bodhi.zazen]

I, myself, have bashed Ubuntu many times. However, I have nothing against the distro, only a good portion of it's user base. I would say since the 7.10/8.04 era, Ubuntu as a community has been infested with ignorance. People going around thanking the Ubuntu devs for a fix with hal. Something they don't deserve credit for (though I give them many props for having an easy distro), expecting everything to just work, wanting it to be just like Windows. It is annoying enough to come here and start a hate party.

I see it as an opportunity to educate. Hate parties only make you look bad.

[zakany]

How many people know how their TV works? Or refrigerator, for that matter?

For a home appliance, people in general and much more informed about the inner workings of their computers than anything else they own. With the possible exception of their automobile.

[PurposeOfReason]

How many people know how their TV works? Or refrigerator, for that matter?

For a home appliance, people in general and much more informed about the inner workings of their computers than anything else they own. With the possible exception of their automobile.
To add to that, why should we care about our cars then? I mean, we have people to fix those, it really is just a hassle.

No it is not. Once you know, you can do things yourself saving you time and money. Same goes for a TV and fridge (both of which are simple and you should know their basic principals, even just because it is cool).

There is plenty of time, there are plenty of books, people should never stop learning, they have no excuse.

[Eisenwinter]

...they have no excuse

sure they do - "but, I prefer to get drunk instead", that's an excuse.

But the thing is the difference between a TV and a computer.

A computer is (to me, anyway) a much more personal, intimate home appliance, which is why I know much more about my computer than my TV.

[Tristam Green]

That is where we disagree. Gone are those days where you can just have it work and let it be. Look around you, what isn't run by a computer that is modern? People should understand what is happening just as it is smart to know first aid. The basics. That way you can help yourself, let things progress and be able to understand these progressions.

I can sympathize with your frustration here, and I know where you're coming from, but let me put what I'm trying to say in these terms:

- I know how to work on my computer(s), operating systems, etc. because I've gone to school, had the training, and work daily in this field. My level of knowledge is applicable to my lifestyle.

- I drive a car daily to and from work. If a tire goes flat, I can change the tire. If I have a low coolant warning, I know where the coolant reservoir is. I know how to change oil, brakes, and even the spark plugs. I do not, however, know how to replace a broken constant velocity joint. I do not need to know how to do that. Would it make my life easier if I did? Potentially; I could save myself some money by not having to visit the auto mechanic. However, it's still completely unnecessary for me to know how to do that task on my car(s).

- Likewise, I know to take out my trash every day. I know how to sort recyclables from disposables, and to take components like batteries and electronics to designated facilities. Do I know how to completely and properly dispose of those items? No. Do I need to? No.


If people are more willing to learn, if they know more, than more advanced things can come. Right now, a lot of what is holding us back is people are not ready. Think of word09. The lack of drop down menus sent people into a fit, but the ribbon is much more effecient. If we are not ready for simple changes for the better because we lack the urge and understanding, how are we supposed to get to the age where computers can aid us in ways we never though of? Implants in your eyes that contain a clock, news readers, a text messaging like app, etc. (I can dream. :))

I will agree with that though. Everything except the eye-implants. I don't even wear contacts, so nothing's getting that close to my eyeballs while I draw breath!

[PurposeOfReason]

sure they do - "but, I prefer to get drunk instead", that's an excuse.
Who says you can't drink and compute at the same time? That is how you learn what does what. Trial and error and breaking things all the way. :popcorn:

[Eisenwinter]

Who says you can't drink and compute at the same time? That is how you learn what does what. Trial and error and breaking things all the way. :popcorn:
Of course you can do that, I do it all the time ;)

[TombKing]

Who says you can't drink and compute at the same time? That is how you learn what does what. Trial and error and breaking things all the way.

Not just something to do but a time honored tradition of computing.

[lykwydchykyn]

Here we go round the mulberry bush :popcorn:

You don't have have to know how a computer works to use one, but by crikey it sure helps.

[aysiu]

But the thing is, do we want market share, or do we want the community to be limited to experts? If we want market share, then when it starts to happen, we will inevitably have huge numbers of ignorant people. If we only want a small community of experts, no one should ever complain about hardware makers not supporting Linux. Agreed. You can't have it both ways. Frankly, I think having a larger marketshare has benefits that outweight its few adverse side effects. The huge numbers of ignorant people won't destroy the community, because most ignorant people aren't going to sign up for a forum anyway. They just want to use their computers, not ask for support for them online. Places like the Geek Squad will stay in business even if Ubuntu or some other Linux distro unseats Windows.

And if Ubuntu becomes wildy successful and "the original" Linux users want a tight community, they'll just go to another distro anyway.


So because they disagree with you, they should take their opinions elsewhere? That isn't a very community-minded opinion, you think? No. If they display elitist attitudes that aren't in compliance with the forum Code of Conduct, then they should take their attitudes elsewhere.

[Hated On Mostly]

A computer is (to me, anyway) a much more personal, intimate home appliance


Primefalcon is right. Too many elitists running around on these forums wanting people to understand, appreciate, and make love to the command line or some other tool/method which people only like because it is the more difficult and unintuitive way of doing something.


Nonsensical rudeness

Don't hate the messenger, I can't make this stuff up.

[swoll1980]

Don't hate the messenger, I can't make this stuff up.

lol

[Eisenwinter]

Don't hate the messenger, I can't make this stuff up.
That doesn't mean I want people to make love to the CLI, I simply said that for me, out of all the electronic appliances I have in my apartment, my computer is the most personal one.

Think about it. You customize your computer for you. You make it look, and do things, the way you like.

You store personal data on it.

That's what makes it so much more personal than all the other appliances.

[swoll1980]

That doesn't mean I want people to make love to the CLI, I simply said that for me, out of all the electronic appliances I have in my apartment, my computer is the most personal one.

Think about it. You customize your computer for you. You make it look, and do things, the way you like.

You store personal data on it.

That's what makes it so much more personal than all the other appliances.

You sound like a Hewlett-Packard advertisement. :)

[Eisenwinter]

You sound like a Hewlett-Packard advertisement. :)
:lolflag:

Well, I'm certainly not trying to advertise anything.

Just saying how much my computer means to me ;p

[lisati]

Think about it. You customize your computer for you. You make it look, and do things, the way you like.
I'm reminded of a brochure I looked at recently while browsing a local electronics store: "10 fun things to do with Windows". A quick flick through revealed earth-shattering stuff like "store photos on your computer", "store music on your computer" and "send pictures by email" - all of which we can do with Ubuntu (I put the brochure down at this point). One would guess that there's people out there who don't know these things.

[forrestcupp]

That is where we disagree. Gone are those days where you can just have it work and let it be. Look around you, what isn't run by a computer that is modern? People should understand what is happening just as it is smart to know first aid. The basics. That way you can help yourself, let things progress and be able to understand these progressions. I completely disagree. The computing world is heading toward intuitiveness and usability. An intuitive OS is set up in such a way that the user can get his work done without ever even thinking about what lies underneath what he sees.

There are two types of computer people: developers and users. You're thinking like a developer, not a user, and there's nothing wrong with that. You just need to realize that there are some people out there who are simply "users" and their computers are just tools to get a job done; they don't need to know how anything works as long as they can get the job done.

But no matter what, no one should be disrespectful or ungrateful when they are getting help because they decided to delve a little deeper. When people try to go a little deeper, they've crossed the line over to the side where they should put some effort into learning what they're doing.



No. If they display elitist attitudes that aren't in compliance with the forum Code of Conduct, then they should take their attitudes elsewhere.Thanks. That's a great way to put it.


Don't hate the messenger, I can't make this stuff up.
Ha, ha, ha. That totally made my day.

[lykwydchykyn]

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-03-20/

See? PHB likes pie. You don't see him bashing distros.

[BGFG]

I'm reminded of a brochure I looked at recently while browsing a local electronics store: "10 fun things to do with Windows". A quick flick through revealed earth-shattering stuff like "store photos on your computer", "store music on your computer" and "send pictures by email" - all of which we can do with Ubuntu (I put the brochure down at this point). One would guess that there's people out there who don't know these things.

:) LOL, i love it. Crikey! I'll switch to Xp right now to send one of you a 'GASP'......picture by email!

[MaindotC]

One problem I ran into - I had a job interview for a company that uses debian-based machines. He asked me what I use and I told him Ubuntu, and then he asked "Well, why don't you just use Debian?" Seeing as how Debian came before Ubuntu and probably a little more widely used I didn't really know how to answer this question.

[BGFG]

One problem I ran into - I had a job interview for a company that uses debian-based machines. He asked me what I use and I told him Ubuntu, and then he asked "Well, why don't you just use Debian?" Seeing as how Debian came before Ubuntu and probably a little more widely used I didn't really know how to answer this question.

And it sounds like he might take the answer personally :) umm, newer packages ? A bit closer to the cutting edge ?

[pdoma]

There are forums for other distros that you can hang out in. Maybe it's more appropriate to talk about how much better Mint or Arch is than Ubuntu in the Mint and Arch forums.

Yeah but then they would probably be talking to themselves only ;)

[Eisenwinter]

And it sounds like he might take the answer personally :) umm, newer packages ? A bit closer to the cutting edge ?
LOL.

I can see him saying "Cutting edge? well why don't you just use Arch?" :lolflag:

[Tristam Green]

One problem I ran into - I had a job interview for a company that uses debian-based machines. He asked me what I use and I told him Ubuntu, and then he asked "Well, why don't you just use Debian?" Seeing as how Debian came before Ubuntu and probably a little more widely used I didn't really know how to answer this question.

Two years ago, I had the *exact* same thing happen to me. Chances are, we applied to and were interviewing for the same company...


And it sounds like he might take the answer personally :) umm, newer packages ? A bit closer to the cutting edge ?


LOL.

I can see him saying "Cutting edge? well why don't you just use Arch?" :lolflag:

I told the guy that most of my experience with Linux came in the order of SuSE 9.0, Fedora 6, and then Ubuntu 5.04 and beyond. He remarked about how much better Gentoo was than Ubuntu, to which I simply replied, "well, Linux distros are about freedom of choice, and FOSS is about making the OS your own".

I didn't get the job, but I'm better for it.

[ebharv]

@ Forrestcup,
It's basically pick on the popular kid syndrome. I think if Shuttleworth wasn't a billionaire and just a 'regular' guy, there would be no problem.
In this community, IMO, as soon as something becomes percieved as 'mainstream' or approaching that, criticism begins and those that can will move away to a distro that is a little 'out of reach' of the average user.

Well said. It seems most "Ubuntu haters" would love to keep Linux to the tech savvy and away from everyday users. I tried Ubuntu starting with 6.06 LTS and have loved it since. It was the first distro that would intsall on my machine. Before 6.06 I tried Mandriva and OpenSUSE. The live CDs were fine they just wouldn't install. OpenSUSE was really what had me wanting to divorce M$ Win. But anyway, because of the ease of the installation (and DELL) Ubuntu has been gaining ground and the once secret (meaing you have to have a high knowlege of how Linux and computers work) Linux society is being brought to the masses and I do believe this is what is making the "Ubuntu haters" hate Ubuntu.

The same thing happend to MS Windows everybody loved DOS and Window 3.X-95. But when Win98&98SE hit (along with the problems) the hatetred started.

On the down side of Ubuntu popularity, the distro is starting to have MS Win problems as it gains Linux/PC market share. There are more "I can't get this to work" threads now. I don't know if that is because the problems are happening because they immediately start on the next release after an new release comes out or not, or just users who don't want to take the time to fix problems that they've cereated (probably both) but the Ubuntu stability isn't what it used to be. To avoid this I only upgrade to LTS releases. From what I've read they have less problems (and I may be wrong).

Is Ubuntu the be all end all OS, never there are alot of good alternatives like OpenSUSE (I finally did get it working), Fedora (used it for a month or so), CentOS (used it for a month after Fedora), Sabayon (to date the only live CD I've used where I could enable desktop effects while running the live CD), and Mint (got it on another machine. So far it seems to be Ubuntu with proprietary drivers and custom apps like mintMenu, and mintInstall).

There really is no reason to diss Ubuntu for it's success or non success. Any OS is going to have the same problems Ubuntu has (except maybe OSX on a Mac), maybe not on your particular box but someone somewhere has a problem that they can't fix short of a reinstall and they're hating whatever OS they are running.

It's just part of popularity (and computings) vicious cycle.

[Eisenwinter]

He remarked about how much better Gentoo was than Ubuntu, to which I simply replied, "well, Linux distros are about freedom of choice, and FOSS is about making the OS your own".

I didn't get the job, but I'm better for it.

I think it's good for you, that you didn't get the job. Working for fanboys has to be a nightmare, especially if you don't use what they claim to be the best OS ever.

[regala]

And it sounds like he might take the answer personally :) umm, newer packages ? A bit closer to the cutting edge ?

that's not true, just take a look to "testing" (which is as rock-solid as any Ubuntu release I ran (every one, I would say))
please don't spread the legend that Debian packages are all too old :)

[regala]

other distro people are jealous

so you think people who have supported FOSS for more than 5 years are just now willing to shoot themselves in the foot....
funny, really funny :)
I am guessing how other distro people can get really pissed off :popcorn:

[Tristam Green]

I think it's good for you, that you didn't get the job. Working for fanboys has to be a nightmare, especially if you don't use what they claim to be the best OS ever.

I agree entirely, and it's hilarious that at my current job, although corporate desktops are 100% Microsoft, and I bring my personal Ubuntu laptop with me (for email and music), I just get light-hearted ribbing for being a "FOSS Junkie".

[gimmejimmy]

Primefalcon is right. Too many elitists running around on these forums wanting people to understand, appreciate, and make love to the command line or some other tool/method which people only like because it is the more difficult and unintuitive way of doing something.
<snip>
Clearly Ubuntu's goal is ease of use and graphical tools for every task a user may want to perform.
This is just plain wrong. I've only been using Linux for a few months so I don't qualify as elitist or being especially knowledgeable. I prefer working with a GUI but in the short time I've used Linux I've discovered that some tasks are really best performed at the terminal. Ever tried to figure out why wireless won't work, or why an application seems to start then just dies? You won't solve those kinds of problems from a GUI. You have to work at the terminal and see the output and the error messages. I recently set-up a Linux computer in a photo printing store. I found that if I moved part of the workflow to the command-line the employees found it easier and they worked faster. Imagine that, total computer newbies finding terminal commands easier!
The point here is not that using the terminal is better than using a GUI, The point is that you should use the best tool for the job at hand.
It's silly to say that people only like the command-line because it's difficult and unintuitive. It's also silly to label them elitist or haters just because in your own mind Ubuntu should be GUI only.

[swoll1980]

This is just plain wrong. I've only been using Linux for a few months so I don't qualify as elitist
In the context used in this thread

elitist: # The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
#

1. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
2. Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class

An elitist is some one that look down on you, someone that thinks they are better than everyone else for various reasons. This is not something you would look to qualify as.

[gimmejimmy]

Ok, I used the wrong word. Maybe "expert" was more appropriate. The point was, there are tasks that are better done at the command-line. "It's more difficult or unintuitive" is wrong and it's certainly not the reason people like it. And just because someone recommends using it doesn't make them elitist or a hater.

[saulgoode]

An elitist is some one that look down on you, someone that thinks they are better than everyone else for various reasons. This is not something you would look to qualify as.
And if one looks down upon elitists? Would that not qualify as elitist?

[will1911a1]

Yeah but then they would probably be talking to themselves only ;)

Yeah because Ubuntu is the ONLY distro with an active community. Right?

[MaindotC]

Two years ago, I had the *exact* same thing happen to me. Chances are, we applied to and were interviewing for the same company...


Sensis Corporation in Syracuse?

[forrestcupp]

The point here is not that using the terminal is better than using a GUI, The point is that you should use the best tool for the job at hand.
It's silly to say that people only like the command-line because it's difficult and unintuitive. It's also silly to label them elitist or haters just because in your own mind Ubuntu should be GUI only.
You're right. I've been a big GUI proponent for a long time. I think you should be able to do all configurations with a GUI. But you can't beat the terminal with its error printouts for troubleshooting.

I even use the command prompt some in Windows and there have been many times that I wish it worked like the CLI in Linux. And I'm a GUI pusher.

[lisati]

Back in the days when 3.1 was the current flavour of Windows, I loved the MS-DOS command line, and found it hard to understand why someone would want a GUI when you could do pretty much all you needed to do with a text-based interface. These days, having used Windows (and more recently Ubuntu) for some time, I'm kinda used to having a GUI.

In short: both GUI and CLI have their places.

[liviubero]

There is a *lot* of misinformed praising of Ubuntu here. liviubero is a perfect, almost too-perfect, example of that. People, like me, who have been using Linux since before Ubuntu existed tend to be annoyed by crap like that and feel the need to point it out.

I don't use Ubuntu any more (tried it to see what the fuss was about), but I stick around here to help beginners. Although I find myself in dumb arguments more often than not. I should probably leave.

Where am I misinformed? I just said that Ubuntu was the oly distro which would work for me.
I am not an Ubutu-adict, but it is just the only one which does the job.


Is this a troll or is he serious? I can't tell. :(
I am serious.
That apt was created for Debian has no importance for a FOSS operating system. apt is one of the strengths of Ubuntu.
Windows users don't have such a tool like apt. And Ubuntu needs good tools to compete Windows. And it doesn't matter where these tools come from.
What makes a OS is not what very special tools it has, but how things are put together.

[blastus]

Maybe we should put a little hate back on the Ubuntu haters :P

Seriously Ubuntu isn't perfect, but what is? It doesn't matter to me because it works for me, no, it works VERY WELL for me so it's what I use. I've been using it for years and I like it and I am willing to accept its limitations and flaws.

[Helios1276]

Maybe we should put a little hate back on the Ubuntu haters :P

Seriously Ubuntu isn't perfect, but what is? It doesn't matter to me because it works for me, no, it works VERY WELL for me so it's what I use. I've been using it for years and I like it and I am willing to accept its limitations and flaws.

But not those of others?;)