Internet and trolling....

[tazz4vr]

I have a question, let me first apologize for not knowing this answer already!! (I know of a few that are mumbling 'dumba@$' right now, so shut it!)

I have just turned down a job in which the client claims to be a supposed 'writer'. Okay, now, one of the main breaking points for me was that I was asked to help set up accounts for advertising of said books. However after receiving the list of potential websites, few, and I mean very few were related to books or writing in general. Upon not receiving a reasonable response as to why this was, I turned the job down.

My question is this. If person 'a' sets up these accounts via use of their computer, and then person 'b' adds a comment using their computer, lets say in a different state, who's computer/service provider gets dinged? Although I know a computer can be traced via different factors, however if a comment is placed from another using the same log-in info, does it still show as being done from the computer that registered the account? Is this what is meant as trolling?

[mazzaschi]

Tazz, Try again I can't figure out what you're talking about.

[cmay]

no not exactly. trolling is a individual that seems to like to stir things up in a community for the fun of it. they are great liars and likes to get heard and seen but are not able to function in normal relations.

[Bölvaður]

the person you are talking about might be doing this for spamming or some....

Trolls on the other hand are people that try to get people to argue. A successful troll is someone that can say "Linux is worse than a toothpick... discuss!" and managing to keep the argument (flaming) going for a long time.

About trolls:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

[t0p]

When you set up the account, you will click a clicky to agree to various terms and conditions. These terms will likely include a "no nastiness" clause, and maybe an acceptance that you are responsible for acts done by your account. It's no good whining that it isn't your account and you only set it up for a 3rd party. You filled in the form, you accepted the terms, so it's your account and you are responsible for it.

[tazz4vr]

Tazz, Try again I can't figure out what you're talking about.

Okay, let me see if I can make sense....oh boy!

I was reviewing a potential clients assignment information. He claims to be a writer. The job description was that he needed someone to create and/or register accounts for him online at various websites to promote his books. I requested from him a list of the sites that he was referring to, upon reviewing them, out of 100, there were maybe 5 that actually had to do with books, writing, etc... the rest were real estate, tech sites, social sites, etc.... According to him, he writes children's books, not a big need for real estate sites. So I simply asked him, why would he need to have an account for a real estate site if he's merely promoting his writings of childrens books. His response was, I need all the promotion I can get.
Basically, if it were me i'd be concentrating on promoting in places that are consistant with my writing, but that's just me. In any case, I turned down the job.
My question is this. Say I had taken the job, created all these accounts for him with the user name/password he provided to me and nothing more. At some point, using the same user name/password, he would access these accounts, make comments, postings, whatever from his personal computer. As I am the one who did the initial creation of the account, will his comments, posts show as they were coming from my computer ip address or will it show his ip address?

As I know several people who work from home such as I do, if this is a practice that can get them in trouble, I would at least like to know so that I can at least provide a heads up, so-to-speak.

[red_Marvin]

That sounds more like spamming than trolling to me, IE adverting where it is not acceptable. I don't think spammers get in trouble, more than being banned from the sites they abuse, unless done on a large scale. However most people consider spammers among the lowest scum on earth.

[tazz4vr]

Thank you all for info. Upon further research through Corp. Site, discovered that he was also recruiting from several other sites for the same reasons, just different book types...! I found him on 4 other sites. Unfortunately he had contacted me before, back a few months and I turned him down then too, although under a different name, but same scenario...
(Note to self... go with your first instinct!)

[WatchingThePain]

Cool,
My first Troll experience.
Think of me as an outside observer.
When did you decide to be a troll or was it a supernatural thing?.
Fascinating.
Lol when do I get to see the dancing girls?
I suppose Trolls will be Trolls.:evil:

[Giant Speck]

Sometimes I dream about creating two alternate UF accounts: one that is extremely and fanatically pro-Linux, and one that is extremely and fanatically pro-Windows. Then I'd unleash them upon the Community Cafe.

[red_Marvin]

WatchingThePain:
1) The question is really about spamming, not trolling.
2) He turned the "job" down, that makes him not a spammer, or troll for that matter.

[tazz4vr]

Thank you Red...

@Watching...I don't need to make up issue's to have an exciting life, it just happens naturally, I also have kids, which makes life hardly dull!

[WatchingThePain]

Like I said..I am a remote observer..so far away that I can't read properly..peace.
In fact I have lost my memory due to reading a bogus thread earlier.

[Dekkon]

Sometimes I dream about creating two alternate UF accounts: one that is extremely and fanatically pro-Linux, and one that is extremely and fanatically pro-Windows. Then I'd unleash them upon the Community Cafe.

Win!

[tazz4vr]

Like I said..I am a remote observer..so far away that I can't read properly..peace.
In fact I have lost my memory due to reading a bogus thread earlier.

Sorry for the snippity-ness, been a long day. Peace back at ya.\\:D/, this is closest to dancing girls for you that I could find, enjoy.

[WatchingThePain]

Ty:D

[oldos2er]

What you're describing is a sock puppet, not a troll.

[HammerOfDoubt]

Trolling is a art.

[MaindotC]

Hammer I love ur sig :D Wish more peeps would sign that way. But in any event I think I've found my new sig:


trolling is a individual that seems to like to stir things up in a community for the fun of it. they are great liars and likes to get heard and seen but are not able to function in normal relations.

LMAO each time I read it :D

[billgoldberg]

As I am the one who did the initial creation of the account, will his comments, posts show as they were coming from my computer ip address or will it show his ip address?

As I know several people who work from home such as I do, if this is a practice that can get them in trouble, I would at least like to know so that I can at least provide a heads up, so-to-speak.

If the site logs the date and time and the ip address, they could trace it back to you.

But it will then most likely also track the date time and ip address of the person making the posts.

Almost all people have a dynamic ip address. So they won't be able to block you or anything.

But the authorities (not the webmasters of the various sites) could ask your ISP who was using that ip address at that given time.

I doubt you will get in trouble for stuff like that.

Since you would able to show the guy was doing the posting, not you.

[MaindotC]

If you're really worried about IP tracking just buy a new wireless NIC, with cash & unmarked bills, at a store that doesn't have CCTV, pull up to an open wifi spot from wigle.net and do your business.

[tjwoosta]

Sometimes I dream about creating two alternate UF accounts: one that is extremely and fanatically pro-Linux, and one that is extremely and fanatically pro-Windows. Then I'd unleash them upon the Community Cafe.

lol been there done that (not ar UF of course ;))

its just too much fun to start unnessicary and irrelevant arguments against yourself, and then sit back and watch as they go on for weeks because ignorant newcomers keep adding fuel to the fire

[tazz4vr]

If the site logs the date and time and the ip address, they could trace it back to you.

But it will then most likely also track the date time and ip address of the person making the posts.

Almost all people have a dynamic ip address. So they won't be able to block you or anything.

But the authorities (not the webmasters of the various sites) could ask your ISP who was using that ip address at that given time.

I doubt you will get in trouble for stuff like that.

Since you would able to show the guy was doing the posting, not you.

After all this craziness yesterday, when all was said and done, this person had a total of 32 different user names, that were verified via his posted comments ip address, on various websites, using several people to create these accounts. Most if not all were created using 'gmail' as primary email, all different addresses! But ultimately it was his comments that found him, as well as the list that I had available to me as a starting point.
I do understand that everyone needs to make money in their own way, he posted a link back to a personal site that generated money each time someone clicked to read the previous comments, however it is claimed he did nothing illegal, however he did stir up the viewers quite a few times. But he never threatened people nor did he request viewers to read previous posts/comments.
By the way, all verified accounts, 32 of them, have since been canceled, his service provider was notified and on about 5 of the sites, which were Freelance/Consulting sites, they did post a warning on 'what to look out for', as he did nothing illegal, they could not name him, darn it Jim!
Although I feel bad for possibly 'stalling' his flow of income, in no way do I believe this will stop him, he'll find another way around this little glitch in his road.

[Skripka]

If the site logs the date and time and the ip address, they could trace it back to you.

But it will then most likely also track the date time and ip address of the person making the posts.

Almost all people have a dynamic ip address. So they won't be able to block you or anything.


True...but most people spamming boards will not wait to post from different accounts until their IP is rotated. Also, ISPs usually don't have that wide a spread of IPs they hand out.

Usually forum spammers get found and nuked pretty quick, on most forums I frequent.

[bapoumba]

My question is this. Say I had taken the job, created all these accounts for him with the user name/password he provided to me and nothing more. At some point, using the same user name/password, he would access these accounts, make comments, postings, whatever from his personal computer. As I am the one who did the initial creation of the account, will his comments, posts show as they were coming from my computer ip address or will it show his ip address?

Ips are usually recorded for the account creation and for each individual post and can be retrieved by the forums Staff. So your IP identity would have shown as registration IP and his as posting IP. One account = one original email address.
Spamming accounts get banned quickly, IP ranges get banned on spam attacks to stop the flow. This is all on the forums end (at least the ones I've been on Staff).

[yabbadabbadont]

Ips are usually recorded for the account creation and for each individual post and can be retrieved by the forums Staff. So your IP identity would have shown as registration IP and his as posting IP. One account = one original email address.
Spamming accounts get banned quickly, IP ranges get banned on spam attacks to stop the flow. This is all on the forums end (at least the ones I've been on Staff).

Banning by IP is pretty pointless when DHCP is being used. OK, so you then ban an entire range of IP addresses... and take out an entire region of innocent bystanders who happen to use the same ISP. Not that there is really any alternative when dealing with spam, but it still doesn't seem right.

Seems like it would be fairly easy to black out an entire metropolitan area if a few friends with different broadband providers decided to be naughty... :twisted:

[bapoumba]

Banning by IP is pretty pointless when DHCP is being used. OK, so you then ban an entire range of IP addresses... and take out an entire region of innocent bystanders who happen to use the same ISP. Not that there is really any alternative when dealing with spam, but it still doesn't seem right.

Seems like it would be fairly easy to black out an entire metropolitan area if a few friends with different broadband providers decided to be naughty... :twisted:
Yeah, IP ranges are blocked to stop the flow, I never said that was permanent ;)
Other things are used to stop spam attacks (the registration process for ex, with confirmation emails) and I have to say that last huge attack was a couple years ago. The forums had to be shut down at some point.. For now, it's not that bad.

[yabbadabbadont]

Yeah, IP ranges are blocked to stop the flow, I never said that was permanent ;)
Other things are used to stop spam attacks (the registration process for ex, with confirmation emails) and I have to say that last huge attack was a couple years ago. The forums had to be shut down at some point.. For now, it's not that bad.

With all the troubles that the forums have had lately, I don't think any outside agency is needed to knock them down on a frequent basis... :lol:

(they hold up surprisingly well, considering the load)

[bapoumba]

(they hold up surprisingly well, considering the load)
u-g is a magician :)

[tazz4vr]

As most of the email addresses were via gmail/google, has there ever been a time when an email address provider has been called on to answer for their email services running amock?

[yabbadabbadont]

As most of the email addresses were via gmail/google, has there ever been a time when an email address provider has been called on to answer for their email services running amock?

No, not really. Otherwise Hotmail and Yahoo would have been blasted to smithereens years ago... ;)

Actually, there was a point in time when some forums simply refused to register anyone who was using either a Hotmail or Yahoo e-mail address.

[MaindotC]

u-g is a magician :)

What's been going on other than the "Mark Thread as Solved" feature and the "thank you" feature? Was that some kind of exploit that other people found or are you guys referencing other problems?

[Skripka]

What's been going on other than the "Mark Thread as Solved" feature and the "thank you" feature? Was that some kind of exploit that other people found or are you guys referencing other problems?

The UF server is held together with duct tape and bailing wire....a server which supports a forum with 20-30k visirors at any one time. Removing OOST, "Thank You" etc were attempts to lessen load...what it looks like now-Jaunty will come along...and the UFs will get DDoS'd.

[bapoumba]

What's been going on other than the "Mark Thread as Solved" feature and the "thank you" feature? Was that some kind of exploit that other people found or are you guys referencing other problems?
The "Thanks" feature will probably not come back unless there is a whole rewriting of the code. The plugins are accessing the database and were part of the database corruption problems ("Solved" is another plugin we used, along with "Decimator" that allowed a one click spam handling). Tags can be used to identify solved threads (anyone can add them).


The UF server is held together with duct tape and bailing wire....a server which supports a forum with 20-30k visirors at any one time. Removing OOST, "Thank You" etc were attempts to lessen load...what it looks like now-Jaunty will come along...and the UFs will get DDoS'd.
Not necessarily ;)
u-g and Canonical sysadmins have been working hard, forums Spring cleanups are underway, and we should be fine.

[yabbadabbadont]

You kids and your fancy plugins... If you want to mark your topic "solved", simply edit your first post and add the word "solved" to the subject line. ;)