Is System76 the "mac" of Linux

[swoll1980]

I went to system76 to find a Linux based PC, and they want $900+ for a very average rig that would cost about $500 at bestbuy Could this be one of the reasons MS has such a huge market? It's cheaper to buy a Windows box, and install Ubuntu on it after the fact. I noticed it with Dell too. They want about the same for the striped down Ubuntu machines as they do for the Windows ones, by the time you add the hardware to make them comparable the Ubuntu machine cost more.

[kg4tah]

Interesting you make this post, I checked out System76 today for the first time and thought the same thing as you.

[perce]

What they give you, and bestbuy doesn't, is support.

[Kareeser]

Best buy doesn't support their Ubuntu computers? That's a rip-off...

What if you bought in to their 3-year extended warranty contract? :)

[Skripka]

Also, a few things that drive the cost of Win machines down:

-Bulk (often exclusive) licensing agreements

-Companies pay OEMs LOTS and LOTS of money to put their crapware on OEM OS images. Note the use of the bold, italics, AND underline markups. Ubuntu=no crapware, ergo no deal, ergo higher price.

[Skripka]

Best buy doesn't support their Ubuntu computers? That's a rip-off...

What if you bought in to their 3-year extended warranty contract? :)

Then you could get someone from the DoofusSquad, to come out stare at your broken computer-and tell you "there's a problem with your machine, I suggest re-installing Windows".

[swoll1980]

What they give you, and bestbuy doesn't, is support.

NO, they charge even more if you want support. The price I quoted was w/o support

[swoll1980]

Also, a few things that drive the cost of Win machines down:

-Bulk (often exclusive) licensing agreements

-Companies pay OEMs LOTS and LOTS of money to put their crapware on OEM OS images. Note the use of the bold, italics, AND underline markups. Ubuntu=no crapware, ergo no deal, ergo higher price.

They need to start bundling crapware with Linux machines, so they don't cost as much.

[dasunst3r]

Simply put: System76 does not have as much purchasing power as big names such as Dell or Apple. Therefore, to make up for it, they provide better service.

[wolfen69]

that's why i build my own.

[Skripka]

that's why i build my own.

Bingo. Except you can't do that with netbooks or lappies-for the most part.

Although I know a disgruntled owner of an Acer Aspire One Linux netbook. Who think Ubuntu is too hard and only for people who "eat sleep and breath code"...who I might talk into selling his to me cheapish. I'll put Arch on it, if I get it...I just can't make up my mind what DE or simple WM to put on it :D

[HammerOfDoubt]

that's why i build my own.

True. I have never bought a pre-built PC, and I never would. I was raised building my own.

That's kind of why I've always had an aversion to buying laptops.

[I-75]

Buy one of those full sized Vista laptops that they have on sale each week for $399 or $499 @ Best Buy, Staples and Micro Center and install Ubuntu over it.

[speedwell68]

Bingo. Except you can't do that with netbooks or lappies-for the most part.

Although I know a disgruntled owner of an Acer Aspire One Linux netbook. Who think Ubuntu is too hard and only for people who "eat sleep and breath code"...who I might talk into selling his to me cheapish. I'll put Arch on it, if I get it...I just can't make up my mind what DE or simple WM to put on it :D

I got my Mrs an AA-One A150, stuck Easy Peasy (EEEbuntu) on it and she thinks it is the best thing since sliced bread.

I stick to Acer when buying a PC, there stuff is well priced, well built and on the 3 Acer PCs I have Ubuntu has always worked flawlessly.

[I-75]

I got my Mrs an AA-One A150, stuck Easy Peasy (EEEbuntu) on it and she thinks it is the best thing since sliced bread.

I stick to Acer when buying a PC, there stuff is well priced, well built and on the 3 Acer PCs I have Ubuntu has always worked flawlessly.

+1

Easy Peasy is a outstanding distro, everything works out of the box including wireless and video and audio. No crashes, no freezes. I installed it on my EEE PC.

[Bart_D]

Interesting you make this post, I checked out System76 today for the first time and thought the same thing as you.

I also noticed the same thing. You can get a sizzling refurbished AMD quad, from the Dell outlet center, for a little more than half that price.......and, assuming you know how to click a few buttons, install Ubuntu on it yourself.

Only the absolute beginner should even consider buying support from System76. Ubuntu Support? HA!!!!! What a ripoff!

[swoll1980]

I also noticed the same thing. You can get a sizzling refurbished AMD quad, from the Dell outlet center, for a little more than half that price.......and, assuming you know how to click a few buttons, install Ubuntu on it yourself.

Only the absolute beginner should even consider buying support from System76. Ubuntu Support? HA!!!!! What a ripoff!

+1 google, and the UF are the best support out there, and they don't cost a thing.

[Polygon]

what is with these is <x> the <y> of <z> threads?

no its not. All they do is just install linux and preload the drivers and everything so everything works out of the box, just like windows, and just like mac. Just because they do that doesn't make them 'mac'....

[simtaalo]

Buy one of those full sized Vista laptops that they have on sale each week for $399 or $499 @ Best Buy, Staples and Micro Center and install Ubuntu over it.

it is annoying though because it does make you count as a user of windows in statistics. even though they don't really matter they get banded about alot. add to this the fact you can't get them to give your money back for the vista o/s seeing as your never going to use it, although you could sell the key i suppose (but thats probably illegal in someway)

[I-75]

it is annoying though because it does make you count as a user of windows in statistics. even though they don't really matter they get banded about alot. add to this the fact you can't get them to give your money back for the vista o/s seeing as your never going to use it, although you could sell the key i suppose (but thats probably illegal in someway)

But at a savings of $400...its worth it.

[simtaalo]

But at a savings of $400...its worth it.

yeah this is true, if only it was as easy to build a laptop as it is a desktop.

[Redache]

no its not. All they do is just install linux and preload the drivers and everything so everything works out of the box, just like windows, and just like mac. Just because they do that doesn't make them 'mac'....

You could come to the conclusion that they are similar to Apple as both companies use Asus as their supplier :P. (I don't know whether Asus still make Apple stuff anymore though, I'm certain they used to).

System 76 provide a service that is above that of any other "Big + Cheap" company as if you ever need to ring them they will be people who are knowledgeable about Linux and will be able to actually help you. Their premium is worth that level of support.

Dell sell thousands of PC's a week, I doubt System 76 break more than a 100 a week. Dell also make their own PC's, which does lower the cost for them. If you want to support a company that supports Linux 100% buy a System76, if you don't care, don't.

[Dekkon]

Also, a few things that drive the cost of Win machines down:

-Bulk (often exclusive) licensing agreements

-Companies pay OEMs LOTS and LOTS of money to put their crapware on OEM OS images. Note the use of the bold, italics, AND underline markups. Ubuntu=no crapware, ergo no deal, ergo higher price.

That certainly is no excuse for that much of a higher price tag.

http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=82
to
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/desktop-studioxps-435mt?c=us&cs=19&l=en&ref=dthp&s=dhs

and who knows how much more you could save building it yourself.

[wolfen69]

and who knows how much more you could save building it yourself.

all i know is that i can build a real nice computer for $500. as a matter of fact, i just did.

[swoll1980]

what is with these is <x> the <y> of <z> threads?

no its not. All they do is just install linux and preload the drivers and everything so everything works out of the box, just like windows, and just like mac. Just because they do that doesn't make them 'mac'....

No they charge $400-$500 more for the hardware than what it's worth, that's why I compared them to mac

[dasunst3r]

No they charge $400-$500 more for the hardware than what it's worth, that's why I compared them to macBut here's where I see a distinction between Apple and System76: Apple charges a premium because they can, whereas System76 charges more because they have to (again, because they don't have that much purchasing power). The only reason why Dells and stuff are cheap is because of those bloated, stupid programs that go on there.

[ArtF10]

With system76, if you haven't got another system(for testing purposes) around, you lose the thrill of Linux. You're stuck with (potentially) 1 distro for 3 years......you wipe the HD and 3 years of tech support(that you paid for) is down the toilet(assuming you reformatted in less than 3 years ofcourse).

You lose the thrill of testing new distros.....or even of upgrading to newer versions of Ubuntu.

[wolfen69]

The only reason why Dells and stuff are cheap is because of those bloated, stupid programs that go on there.

and they skimp on quality parts where they can.

i'm surprised more people don't build their own. it is easier than most people think. i could teach an 8 yr old to do it. if you can use a screwdriver and have a little common sense, you're good to go.

[simtaalo]

and they skimp on quality parts where they can.

i'm surprised more people don't build their own. it is easier than most people think. i could teach an 8 yr old to do it. if you can use a screwdriver and have a little common sense, you're good to go.

yup or at least get someone they know to do it, even if they paid the friend £50 they would still save so much.

just a pity i've had a laptop that long now that i couldn't bear to go back to a desktop, losing that portability would cripple me lol

[Skripka]

and they skimp on quality parts where they can.

i'm surprised more people don't build their own. it is easier than most people think. i could teach an 8 yr old to do it. if you can use a screwdriver and have a little common sense, you're good to go.

If common sense is so uncommon that we ask about whether people have it or not-why do we call it "common sense"?

People are skeeered of the unknown-and would sooner pay someone else to do it fast (and right), than they take an afternoon to learn something themselves under a Zen Master-it is the day and age we are in. People see computers as appliances-and don't believe they can understand how simple things sometimes are.

[swoll1980]

But here's where I see a distinction between Apple and System76: Apple charges a premium because they can, whereas System76 charges more because they have to (again, because they don't have that much purchasing power). The only reason why Dells and stuff are cheap is because of those bloated, stupid programs that go on there.

I don't buy that for a minute I'm one guy with no buying power what so ever, and can go to micro center, and buy that hardware for less than $400, so this company that has way more buying power than me is getting it even cheaper. What are they charging $500 to put it together? What ever the reason is it's not that the hardware cost them that much more money.

[TBOL3]

and they skimp on quality parts where they can.

i'm surprised more people don't build their own. it is easier than most people think. i could teach an 8 yr old to do it. if you can use a screwdriver and have a little common sense, you're good to go.

I really wish I could build my own computer... but my problem is not the skill set, it's a lack of money. I don't have enough spare cash just laying around to actually buy a computer. Thus, all of my computers come from work.

[dasunst3r]

I don't buy that for a minute I'm one guy with no buying power what so ever, and can go to micro center, and buy that hardware for less than $400, so this company that has way more buying power than me is getting it even cheaper. What are they charging $500 to put it together? What ever the reason is it's not that the hardware cost them that much more money.The $ 500 to put it together is plausible if System76 does not outsource their work (assembly, company administration, support, etc.) to lower-wage countries and has all their stuff in the USA. The $ 500 doesn't go just to the person who built the machine, it could be divided up to paying wages for support staff (accountants, secretaries, etc.), and again, they're paying a premium for American labor.

Of course, you mustn't forget that System76 misses out on the revenue that big box manufacturers get for pre-loading the machines with what I call "stupid software" (especially that Symantec paper shield piece of ****).

Obviously, I'm speculating. Can we get a System76 rep in here to explain their prices?

[stmiller]

Every purchase comes with a 1 year warranty AND technical support I see from just browsing their page. You can buy 2 more years as well.

So it all depends if you like dealing with 'support' from Dell in India or with a company in Denver Colorado with real live human beings.

I have had to deal with Dell "support" to RMA things many times and it was such a pain in the *** I will never work with that company again.

[dragos240]

I have one thing to say, ubuntuforums has a section for system76, if they thought it was bad, i doubt they would get a section for it.

[swoll1980]

So it all depends if you like dealing with 'support' from Dell in India or with a company in Denver Colorado with real live human beings.


The people in India aren't human beings?

[swoll1980]

I have one thing to say, ubuntuforums has a section for system76, if they thought it was bad, i doubt they would get a section for it.

Theirs a section for wine, I guess theirs nothing wrong with that either :-k

[stmiller]

The people in India aren't human beings?

Sorry, I meant it is hard to get a real live person on the phone from Dell without being on the phone for an hour through their phone menus.

Need more coffee.... :)

[swoll1980]

Sorry, I meant it is hard to get a real live person on the phone from Dell without being on the phone for an hour through their phone menus.

Need more coffee.... :)

I know it was a mistell I just had to mess with you :P

[AusIV4]

System76 absolutely supports their systems. If you buy a computer from just about anyone else, you're completely on your own with regard to Linux.

I have a System76 laptop that I bought two years ago. My warranty expired a year ago, but they're still making sure it runs well under Ubuntu.

When it comes to desktops, I'll build my own to save money. I can research each of the parts and make sure its well supported under Linux. That's a lot more difficult to do for a laptop, but System76 does it for you and makes sure it works even after their obligations have ended.

I've had a great experience with System76, and next time I'm on the market for a laptop, I'll be back.

[mips]

Yes. Considering the prices.

I did the math a long time ago.