Linux Market Share

[Jonas thomas]

I'm not sure if this appropriate sub-forum to address this question, so if a moderator thinks somewhere is more appropriate feel free to move the discussion.

A friend of mind who makes his living with that other operating system, gives me continous light hearted grief over my affinity for Linux.

Anyway here recently sent me an article regarding OS market share....
Here's the link: http://www.crn.com/software/215700002

Quoting from the article:

According to February 2009 figures from Net Applications (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=121), Windows market share rose from 88.20 percent in January to 88.42 percent in February. While Windows is still shy of the 88.63 percent share it racked up in December, this marks the first time since last October that the OS didn't experience a monthly decline.

Meanwhile, Mac OS dropped from 9.93 percent in January to 9.61 percent in February, and now hovers around the 9.63 percent share it had in Net Applications' December report. Linux market share rose slightly from 0.83 in January to 0.88 in February, and has been within that same range since last October

I'm looking at the basis this data and it's somewhat confusing to me. My friend seems to acknowledge that Linux is a force in the server market, but he contends that it is small in the desktop. My good feel is that the numbers are accurate but scewed to show a desired result.

I know if you look at Linux use in embedded devices, so as routers, etc... usage is huge.
Does anyone know how many Linux desktops there really are?
Any Linux usage statistics I can shoot back at him??

Thanks,
JT

[lindsay7]

I looked at this last night.

http://counter.li.org/estimates.php

[cb951303]

what about this one: http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php

[LowSky]

You see there is an issue.

Use is based on complete machine, so in the server world we a are a tour-de-force, only because Linux is cheap and unseen to the desktop user, no one cares.
On the desktop, Linux has been "desktop ready" for many years, but user's lack of confidence and OEMs not selling Linux for Desktops keeps the numeber low.
Also the number is hard to really give only because many Linux users also use Windows and/or Macs.

Linux also has to deal with the many distros availible, which also hurts its use in being sold. The multitude of distro can have disaterous effect on a new user if they choose the wrong one, for instance a "noob" would find Ubuntu hopefully easy to use, while that same "noob" could find Arch Linux near impossible. Now what if the "noob" used Arch as his first introduction to Linux, it could potentially keep him from going entirely to the Linux community and staying with Windows, which he has know and enjoyed (for the most part) for years.

With the newer Netbook we saw them being released with versions of Linux. these machines could do most standard opertaions just fine, searching the internet and checking email to name to normal user activities. But a problem insued, many users bought the machine thinking Windows would be on them, or that the learning curve was too high, so many Linux netbooks came back to the stores they were purchased in. Netbooks were thought to be the way Linux was goin to gain ground, but Microsoft offered Window XP for next to nothing to keep users happuy and content.

My theory is that if Linux was to succeed it needs a mainstream entrance, and be econimically an option. Most OEMs include the OS into the cost of the system so users see Linux computer next to a Windows and if the cost the same (regardless of specification) they will buy the Windows PC, but if Linux was offered next to Windows, and showing the price point you might see some of a shift. Not much but some.

[BDNiner]

As far as the PC market goes. I think the numbers are close to being correct. There is no real way to measure linux 'users' since it is free and there are no licenses. And a lot of people than run linux have more than one computer and sometimes more than one linux machine.

Linux has completely taken over the embedded OS market. There are not too many electronic devices that don't use linux is someway or another. I decided to read my HDTV's manual and at the end there is a copy of the GPL stating that parts of Linux kernel and busybox have been used to make the TV work.

[ubername]

I managed to crash the in-flight entertainment on SwissAir in 2007 and they were definitely using linux / x-Server.

[Dougie187]

As far as the PC market goes. I think the numbers are close to being correct. There is no real way to measure linux 'users' since it is free and there are no licenses. And a lot of people than run linux have more than one computer and sometimes more than one linux machine.

Linux has completely taken over the embedded OS market. There are not too many electronic devices that don't use linux is someway or another. I decided to read my HDTV's manual and at the end there is a copy of the GPL stating that parts of Linux kernel and busybox have been used to make the TV work.

Your comment makes me think of Anchorman. I can't remember the full quote but its from Wes Mantooth, something about the survey's not taking into account families with more than 2 televisions.

[aysiu]

The Linux desktop/laptop market share is small. We just don't know how small, because there is no accurate way to count.

And even if there were, what are you counting? Installations or users?

What if one person has a laptop, a netbook, and a desktop? The laptop is a Macbook with Mac OS X, the netbook runs Linux, and the desktop dual-boots Windows and Linux. What does that count as? Does that count as four users, two of who are Linux users? What if that user boots into Windows only 1% of the time?

You can see how this can become problematic. What if one person buys a computer with Windows, connects to the internet, and then completely erases Windows and installs Linux over it and connects to the internet? Will that person be counted as a Windows user and then a Linux user?

Microsoft can count licenses sold (though they can't count how many pirated Windows get downloaded, and Apple can count how many Macs get sold, but Linux has no accurate way to count how many users there are. Some people are distro hoppers, so downloads don't count. Some people need to disguise their web browsers as Windows with IE7 to get functionality on some sites, so they won't show up as Linux installations.

[saulgoode]

Your friend might be interested in this PowerPoint presentation (http://www.microsoft.com/msft/download/powerpoint/fy09/Ballmer_StrategicUpdate_022409.pptx) made by MS CEO Steve Ballmer while addressing Wall Street about a week ago. According to Microsoft's analysis, Linux has a higher percentage of the home and business PC market than Apple.

[Stan_1936]

... According to Microsoft's analysis, Linux has a higher percentage of the home and business PC market than Apple.

What? No way......

[aysiu]

What? No way......
That's the way it looks on slide 8 of the PowerPoint.

[bakedbeans4life]

You can judge how threatened Microsoft are by the potential of Desktop Linux on how much money they they are willing to spend trying to stop this from happening.

Shareholders may wonder just how much money has Microsoft squandered suppressing Linux, rather than acting on that perceived threat by producing superior software.

This sum of money probably dwarfs the entire GDP of many small nations. Everyone, from people to entire countries, has their price.

[Jonas thomas]

Thank you for all the responses. It's sort of interesting to me that no one really know's how many people use Linux.

[SunnyRabbiera]

I think Linux's market share is much higher then Microsoft reports, linux does have a market share but it cannot be counted because its not under one roof.

[ubuntu27]

As everyone has said, it is imposible to know how many Linux Desktop users are out there.

But, we do know one thing.
Linux desktop users has surpassed Mac users long time ago.

Here is an article (http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/35688.html?welcome=1208859300) from Mac News World stating that Linux has more market share than Apple.

http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/35688.html?welcome=1208859300



Also, anyone should be able to arrive to that conclusion using logics.

I have traveled in many countries and I yet to see many homes using Mac.

Follow me in these points:

1) It is extremely rare to find macs. They are just too expensive.

2) Everywhere I go, people have IBM Compatible PC.

3) Linux can run on Mac and PC.

4) Much of the Mac sales happens in the US only.

5) Linux is being shared around the world.

5b) Most Linux distribution are free. So people can give away copies of it.

6) Mac is restrictive (not free), so people can not share it. Which means that those who want will have to buy it. Which then we turn at point 1.

[Skripka]

Follow me in these points:

1) It is extremely rare to find macs. They are just too expensive.

2) Everywhere I go, people have IBM Compatible PC.

3) Linux can run on Mac and PC.

4) Much of the Mac sales happens in the US only.

5) Linux is being shared around the world.

5b) Most Linux distribution are free. So people can give away copies of it.

6) Mac is restrictive (not free), so people can not share it. Which means that those who want will have to buy it. Which then we turn at point 1.


1) Most people barely know how to turn on their computer, much less repartition a drive for linux...let alone know what "repartition" means. This shoots down linux off the bat.

2) Mac fully supports the hardware they sell-and professional apps are written for Mac....which few are for Linux outside of Maya.

3) Bling. People like shiny things.

4) Most people don't know or care that mac is "restrictive", especially when it comes to #1 thru 3

[SunnyRabbiera]

2) Everywhere I go, people have IBM Compatible PC.

These days though this is not really an issue, a few years ago yes but not now with apple being intel based, far easier to deal with then PPC.

[ubuntu27]

1) Most people barely know how to turn on their computer, much less repartition a drive for linux...let alone know what "repartition" means. This shoots down linux off the bat.

2) Mac fully supports the hardware they sell-and professional apps are written for Mac....which few are for Linux outside of Maya.

3) Bling. People like shiny things.

4) Most people don't know or care that mac is "restrictive", especially when it comes to #1 thru 3

My point was that people keep sharing Linux, it was a matter of time until it surpassed Mac in the DESKTOP market share.

1) Yes, but those who are curious to try Linux will learn about partitions. Also, if an individual does not do it themselves, then their friends who are slightly experienced in Linux can do it for them.

I used to not know about partitions until I wanted to install Ubuntu.

2) We are talking about market share here. People who require "Professional" Applications are "slim" compared to the typical person.
Besides, most professional in the world uses Windows.
I never been in Europe, but I have been in different countries in South America and Asia.

It is extremely rare to see Macs. I only saw some mac in Stores in Asian, but, I never met anyone who actualy had Mac in their homes except a couple who design clothes.

South America, I saw NONE. People doesn't even know about Mac. They don't know about it. Only the extreme geek knew about it, but they did not even own it.

But, here is the thing, they do know about Linux, at least they have heard of it.

4) Yes, people doesn't care that Mac is restrictive.
Sorry, looks like I did not explain well. What I meant to say is that since Linux is free compared to Mac. Naturally, there is going to be more people trying out Linux since they can get it without losing a penny.
In case of Mac, you have to invest in buying it.

(Please leave out the Times=Money in trying to configure. I am talking about getting or downloading it)

[aysiu]

4) Much of the Mac sales happens in the US only. Can some non-US folks share a bit more about this? I live in the US. Almost all of my social circle is college-educated, and a disproportionate number of them are graphic designers. So I get a skewed perception of how many Mac users they are out there.

[Onoskelis]

Can some non-US folks share a bit more about this? I live in the US. Almost all of my social circle is college-educated, and a disproportionate number of them are graphic designers. So I get a skewed perception of how many Mac users they are out there.

Tons of Mac owners in Canada.

[ubuntu27]

Can some non-US folks share a bit more about this? I live in the US. Almost all of my social circle is college-educated, and a disproportionate number of them are graphic designers. So I get a skewed perception of how many Mac users they are out there.

Here:

The Mac owns the U.S. Windows owns the world. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9993160-16.html)

[Bölvaður]

In classes I can see many people with macs (laptops of course). But I guess my view is also skewed because well... like 30% of the ppl in some classes use ubuntu.

[koenn]

Can some non-US folks share a bit more about this? I live in the US. Almost all of my social circle is college-educated, and a disproportionate number of them are graphic designers. So I get a skewed perception of how many Mac users they are out there.

Macs are a niche marker AFAIL. Graphic designers mostly. The only Mac users know of are in graphic design and pre-press.
I remember seeing Macs in offices in the early 80ties - before the great Windows breakthrough : their GUI made them preferable over MS-DOS for those who could affort them.
As Windows matured, and for compatibility issues with "the rest of the world", it became Windows everywere except in some niches.

I know of 1 or 2 people who actually use Mac as a "replacement" for linux - hardware support guaranteed and a slick GUI, + being able to say 'I'm not using Windows/Microsoft', without having to actually install an OS and work out the problems that might arise.

[Skripka]

My point was that people keep sharing Linux, it was a matter of time until it surpassed Mac in the DESKTOP market share.

1) Yes, but those who are curious to try Linux will learn about partitions. Also, if an individual does not do it themselves, then their friends who are slightly experienced in Linux can do it for them.

I used to not know about partitions until I wanted to install Ubuntu.

2) We are talking about market share here. People who require "Professional" Applications are "slim" compared to the typical person.
Besides, most professional in the world uses Windows.
I never been in Europe, but I have been in different countries in South America and Asia.

It is extremely rare to see Macs. I only saw some mac in Stores in Asian, but, I never met anyone who actualy had Mac in their homes except a couple who design clothes.

South America, I saw NONE. People doesn't even know about Mac. They don't know about it. Only the extreme geek knew about it, but they did not even own it.

But, here is the thing, they do know about Linux, at least they have heard of it.

4) Yes, people doesn't care that Mac is restrictive.
Sorry, looks like I did not explain well. What I meant to say is that since Linux is free compared to Mac. Naturally, there is going to be more people trying out Linux since they can get it without losing a penny.
In case of Mac, you have to invest in buying it.

(Please leave out the Times=Money in trying to configure. I am talking about getting or downloading it)

On the contrary. People buy win and mac because things like Microsoft word, or Adobe Photoshop, or iTunes, or Finale or Sibelius, what have you. Every software in the world, that people can think of off the top of their head is written primarily for Windows and usually mac too...and whilst there are many able apps on Linux-few to none of them are professional quality.

Linux may be $$$$ free. But you need to be willing to risk time and effort in getting a system to work. Most folks are NOT to put it simply. They view a computer as an appliance, like their oven or microwave, they just want it to work when they want to use it-they don't give a d@mn to even try Firefox because they don't know and don't care about security or speed or what have you. They just want something that "works" with all the hardware and software they buy. They bought a computer with OSX or Windows on it-and odds are VERY high they'll just use what came with their box, as it is "good enough".

I'll bet your numbers for Mac usage are quite out of date.

[sanderella]

I'm glad to be one of those counted among the uncountable.:popcorn:

[aysiu]

Linux may be $$$$ free. But you need to be willing to risk time and effort in getting a system to work. Most folks are NOT to put it simply. They view a computer as an appliance, like their oven or microwave, they just want it to work when they want to use it This is why I think people who migrate to Linux should do so in one of the following ways: Buy it preinstalled (on a netbook, most likely, but some vendors sell regular laptops or desktops with Linux preinstalled, too). Have a Linux user install and configure Linux for them. Be prepared to roll up their sleeves. Anyone who installs and configures an operating system herself without being prepared to troubleshoot is just delusional or misinformed.

[Skripka]

Anyone who installs and configures an operating system herself without being prepared to troubleshoot is just delusional or misinformed.

Most people know better, ergo the Linux marketshare is so tiny.


All of this presumes of course that Linux *should be* trying to get a larger share of the market, and that we should WANT a larger share...which of course is another can of worms entirely.

Most people also just want a computer that works...and Linux-regardless of what we might say or do-requires a GREAT deal of adaptation in habits and attitude from OSX and Windows. Linux is alien and unknown-and most people don't want to bother, as they are barely able to keep up with Windows or OSX....ergo even preinstalled Linux isn't likely to win users over, as they have to learn yet another different way of thinking and doing things. Or at least, that is what their preconcieved notions lead them to believe.

I'm in the process of buying a Linux netbook from a guy on another forum...who sees Ubuntu as something for "coders" and "programmers" simply because you have to open a Terminal once in a blue moon. I'm getting a heck of a deal because he is ingrained in his Windows ways, and sees anything else as too alien and different. I helped the guy too via internet-but he just wants his Windows and anything else is too alien.

[Jonas thomas]

This is why I think people who migrate to Linux should do so in one of the following ways: Buy it preinstalled (on a netbook, most likely, but some vendors sell regular laptops or desktops with Linux preinstalled, too). Have a Linux user install and configure Linux for them. Be prepared to roll up their sleeves. Anyone who installs and configures an operating system herself without being prepared to troubleshoot is just delusional or misinformed.

Another friend of mine (a mechanical engineer) have discussed how it would be nice if there where ubuntu clubs out there(and friendly to those who are geek wanna-be's.
If such clubs were promoted, it would really drive up usage for Linux.

[hatten]

kinda no macs in sweden at all, i know one person that uses it!

[aysiu]

Another friend of mine (a mechanical engineer) have discussed how it would be nice if there where ubuntu clubs out there(and friendly to those who are geek wanna-be's.
If such clubs were promoted, it would really drive up usage for Linux.
You mean like a Linux Users Group but specifically for Ubuntu?

[Jonas thomas]

You mean like a Linux Users Group but specifically for Ubuntu?

Hmm... I got to think about this a little. My friend at work is the guy for getting me sucked into Linux(damm him). Somehow we got fell into Ubuntu. While I've torn my hair out on some configuration stuff, I got say Linux/Ubuntu is cool and it befuddles me that more people aren't into it. I really like this forum because, I generally find people very kind and considerate. It actually shocked me how rude some of the linux world is when I search for pulse-Audio solutions outside this forum(btw.. I finally got it working (yeah to psyke83 ))
Anyway... I digress
I guess I'm a geek, but I woudn't consider myself a Linux geek of the highest order. It's not like I'm finding bugs in kernel code or anything like that. I guess I'm starting to get dangerous since I think I know what I'm doing more or less.

To answer your question, "You mean like a Linux Users Group but specifically for Ubuntu." I'm not really sure.. I really like Ubuntu, but a lot of stuff that I'm into/interested in getting into, Programming such as C++, QT, Wxwidgets, database stuff, Opencascade (for cad),EMC2 (Enhanced Machine Tool controller),CAE linux, might not be of interest to the average Ubuntu person.. (I dislike the word user, is there something better?)
It sometimes intrigued by Gentoo Linux but I don't think I'm any where close to being their league. I'm might be crazy, but those guys/gals seem into be nuts(in a fun sort of way)

I wouldn't mind hooking hooking up with people(I guess engineers) in the chicagoland area with roughly similar interests in Linux/Ubuntu, hopefully with some uber-geeks who have the patience to tolerate a bunch of semi-intelligent questions.

I suppose I should do a little googling here to see what's out there.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
JT

[Dr. C]

There are many countries that are not on this list China and India come to mind for starters http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/intlstoreroutingpage.html so on a worldwide basis one can see why GNU / Linux has a grater market share than Mac as Steve Balmer from Microsoft has pointed out.

By the way sites such as http://www.netapplications.com/ can easily be skewed towards North America where the Mac has close to 10x the market share of GNU / Linux if most of thier web traffic originates in North America

[CREEPING DEATH]

M$'s stats are usually way off.
As for businesses using Linux over M$, don't forget there are a LOT of offline terminals that use Linux and don't surf the web, and a lot of people have FF set to look like M$/IE while surfing.

CD

[ezsit]

I am a librarian working in a public library in the U.S. and I see about 1/3 of the people who come into the the library with laptops carrying a Mac laptop. That's quite a few paople. Of my colleagues, about 1/5 of them own Macs.

I am the only Linux user on my staff, but alot of the IT people with the City have been using with Linux for years and several of the servers running the City run on Linux to power virtual machines and appliances.

Several of our City servers are running AS/400, some run Oracle, and a few Sun Sparc servers and workstations as well.

[yse]

I think Linux's market share is much higher then Microsoft reports, linux does have a market share but it cannot be counted because its not under one roof.

Microsoft dont reports that. I least, i didnt seen them doing it. The reports comes from different site. W3 reports are most accurate.


As everyone has said, it is imposible to know how many Linux Desktop users are out there.

But, we do know one thing.
Linux desktop users has surpassed Mac users long time ago.

Here is an article (http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/35688.html?welcome=1208859300) from Mac News World stating that Linux has more market share than Apple.

http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/35688.html?welcome=1208859300


Well, I actually see Mac growing up slowly but sure. In the same time, Linux splits in different distros... Mac continue to make SOLID innovations to OS. In long time, Mac will be better. Actually, IMHO Mac is better that linux right now.


M$'s stats are usually way off.
As for businesses using Linux over M$, don't forget there are a LOT of offline terminals that use Linux and don't surf the web, and a lot of people have FF set to look like M$/IE while surfing.
CD

In last 15 years, I logged intro a multi terminal sh*T only ONCE. Today hardware is so cheap, everybody afford a computer. And your small cases where you really need a terminal to access a system are irrelevant.

Now, to answer to OP.

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

The stats are accurate. The problem is that Linux keep same percent like 10 years ago. Same under 5% from market share. And there is now going up. In same time, Mac is going up slowly, but is going. And MS is the incontestable leader.

I try to analyze the stats as correctly as i can.

MS W7 is years of light in front of all other OS from my opinion. They do massive research and improvements to the OS and that's reflect in market share too. You cant deny that. And you cant deny the fact that MS W7 is damn good even is beta right now. I personally DONT care if MS is a rich company. I care about the OS and whats offering. Because I USE the OS. And frankly, if MS have money, is a good think because I prefer to have a product from some one who can offer services/supports/and so on. And they do that.

Mac have chose his own way. The really do improvements, aka Quartz (just one of them) and now Snow Leopard will bring OpenCL. And there are others too. Overall, Mac is a nice OS, solid and friendly, have his particularity's. From last 10 years, Mac never stopped to grow up in market share percents. Now, honestly, Macs are sweet. You open it, you do your job, and that's it. No need to worry about to many things.

Now, the hot topic, Linux. Every one of you hear about "divide et impera"? That happening right now to linux. The fact that linux is growing in distros instead solid software and innovations reflects exactly in market share. Sure, all newbies will scream "is free". I will personally prefer to have a commercial linux, under a production from a serious company/(s), who can hire full time developers and improve the OS. That free stuff will kill linux in a way. "You get what you paid for" is damn true. If you see the last 10 year market share, Linux percent is almost the same. Under 5%. And the problem is, there are no signs that will grow up anytime soon. As peoples are interested to keep it free, but they don't realize that you cant challenge Microsoft and Apple products in that way. You have to invest money to develop good applications and standards. Frankly, in the same times, Linux devs prefer to fight each other for their own ego when it comes to programming. Thats not going anywhere.

[bryonak]

The fact that linux is growing in distros instead solid software and innovations reflects exactly in market share. Sure, all newbies will scream "is free". I will personally prefer to have a commercial linux, under a production from a serious company/(s), who can hire full time developers and improve the OS. That free stuff will kill linux in a way. "You get what you paid for" is damn true. If you see the last 10 year market share, Linux percent is almost the same. Under 5%.

People said that diversity and a non-unified approach will kill Linux 15 years ago. They said it 10 years ago. They said it 5 years ago, and they'll say it tomorrow as well.
Yet The W3C stat you cite claims that the Linux share has doubled in the last 6 years. Of course we can't be certain about the future, but the trend looks good.

My personal experience: In 2005 I had 3 friends using Linux (none of them Ubuntu). Now I have 9 (using mainly Ubuntu). Additionally I've installed Ubuntu on about 6 more machines (parents, friends parents, ...).
Five times more Linux users within 4 years in my personal vicinity...

On the Mac topic: I'm from Europe, and Mac laptops (don't know about the desktops) are popular here as well, although maybe not as much as in the US.
I'd say about 20% in my classes, less than that in "computerish" courses like IT (you call it CS) or ET (electrotechnics) and more in the "designerish" classes (I sat with the architects once and about half of the notebooks were Macbooks).
I assume the Mac share outside of university is lower, just from looking around. Can't give any numbers though.

[bakedbeans4life]

"MS W7 is years of light in front of all other OS from my opinion."

Much like the rest of what you say, this is a matter of conjecture. When Microsoft poisons the well, be careful not to drink too deeply. You will either choke or drown.

Windows 7 build 7048 is inferior to XP in speed and does not have the reliability of Linux. That the Kool-Aid still refreshes Microsofties is pretty obvious, that they are steadfast in their compliance and never question is a point for concern.

As to Linux's market share? It worries Microsoft that they spend billions trying to suppress it, that should be enough to tell you how Linux is doing.

[yse]

"MS W7 is years of light in front of all other OS from my opinion."

Much like the rest of what you say, this is a matter of conjecture. When Microsoft poisons the well, be careful not to drink too deeply. You will either choke or drown.

Windows 7 build 7048 is inferior to XP in speed and does not have the reliability of Linux. That the Kool-Aid still refreshes Microsofties is pretty obvious, that they are steadfast in their compliance and never question is a point for concern.

As to Linux's market share? It worries Microsoft that they spend billions trying to suppress it, that should be enough to tell you how Linux is doing.

Mate, seriously, you have no idea what you talk about. You just troll around. You didnt read my post about Mac and Linux also.

If W7 for you means only speed comparing with XP, then we should stop the discussion here. I have no idea how you think XP is faster that W7. Really.. stop using crappy computers and come to cry.

EDIT: You said MS is spending billions? Guess what, I glad they did it. They HAVE from where to spend and they HAVE money to spent on development. Thats a point.

[saulgoode]

Mate, seriously, you have no idea what you talk about. You just troll around. You didnt read my post about Mac and Linux also.

If W7 for you means only speed comparing with XP, then we should stop the discussion here. I have no idea how you think XP is faster that W7. Really.. stop using crappy computers and come to cry.

http://gizmodo.com/5138232/windows-xp-vista-and-7-tested-for-multicore-performance-xp-still-wins-for-now

Of course, Windows 7 will have better hardware compatibility with Vista than Vista had with XP. Sounds impressive, but it still doesn't mean that your XP hardware will work with Windows 7.

It's all rather like a store which doubles its prices and then holds a "50% Off" sale. What a deal!

[bakedbeans4life]

Mate, seriously, you have no idea what you talk about. You just troll around. You didnt read my post about Mac and Linux also.

If W7 for you means only speed comparing with XP, then we should stop the discussion here. I have no idea how you think XP is faster that W7. Really.. stop using crappy computers and come to cry.

EDIT: You said MS is spending billions? Guess what, I glad they did it. They HAVE from where to spend and they HAVE money to spent on development. Thats a point.

I read everything you said, very carefully. I try each and every build of Windows 7, as I did with Vista and XP when they were in beta.

You consider me a troll, but you come across as Microsoft's marketing department. Lets face it, you would never be as critical of Windows as you obviously are with Linux.

This is nothing personal, I'm just sick of reading comments such as yours that are eerily similar to each other. The names may change, but the rhetoric never does.

"Windows Good! Linux Bad!"

As for using crappy computers, isn't that Microsoft's entire revenue stream in a nutshell? Some of us can't afford new hardware just because the Redmond boys say jump. Irony is Windows 7 was supposed to cure all that Vista bloat. As of build 7048, things have improved. But not enough to go to the expense of purchasing a copy. I bet you bought into Vista too, didn't you?

When people come to a Linux forum (even this part of that forum) and gush about Windows, I have to wonder. Wouldn't you?

[Bölvaður]

You consider me a troll, but you come across as Microsoft's marketing department.

:lolflag:

--------------------(after second reading I can see how most people will definitely not understand the humour, so I deleted half the line, far well.)
----------------- :D (added also... well now it looks even worse :D lol omg )
*rephrased*
No matter how great people are, they never are right about anything... except math.... which can be proven.
W3 counter is not accurate by far. It is an accurate for what it is counting, and it is only believable to those who consider the market to be personal computers at people's home where they are used to look at photos of their family and browse the internet. That is too well defined market segment to be considered accurate representation of the whole market.
*end*

Computers that linux is on are often used very differently than macs. Just by accepting that we will see that any online counter would show biased results towards the mac. Linux is enterprise utility where the staff is not goofing off going to random websites, they are often not even able to go to websites at all.

Therefore you may think that Steve Ballmer's presentation show, where he has that well known piechart showing Linux with slightly more market share than macs. It may be more accurate than w3 counter for the reasons stated above, you dont use macs as a proper flexible work machine... macs are toys and image editing platform. You dont see them in a store as a tool to look up what is in stock and where the items are kept.


This is why many linux computers will never be counted. MS accepts it, yse doesnt... who cares.

[yse]

I read everything you said, very carefully. I try each and every build of Windows 7, as I did with Vista and XP when they were in beta.

You consider me a troll, but you come across as Microsoft's marketing department. Lets face it, you would never be as critical of Windows as you obviously are with Linux.

This is nothing personal, I'm just sick of reading comments such as yours that are eerily similar to each other. The names may change, but the rhetoric never does.

"Windows Good! Linux Bad!"

As for using crappy computers, isn't that Microsoft's entire revenue stream in a nutshell? Some of us can't afford new hardware just because the Redmond boys say jump. Irony is Windows 7 was supposed to cure all that Vista bloat. As of build 7048, things have improved. But not enough to go to the expense of purchasing a copy. I bet you bought into Vista too, didn't you?

When people come to a Linux forum (even this part of that forum) and gush about Windows, I have to wonder. Wouldn't you?

I am extremly critical with linux, because, after 10 years, IS NOT WAS WE have expected, EVEN IT GOT THE POTENTIAL.

Again, you have NO IDEA what Windows 7 is from technical point of view. And I doubt you have any idea about how linux is from same technical point of view.

And for your knowledge, I am a developer, who work on/for Windows, MacOs and Linux.

[bakedbeans4life]

I am extremly critical with linux, because, after 10 years, IS NOT WAS WE have expected, EVEN IT GOT THE POTENTIAL.

Again, you have NO IDEA what Windows 7 is from technical point of view. And I doubt you have any idea about how linux is from same technical point of view.

And for your knowledge, I am a developer, who work on/for Windows, MacOs and Linux.

Sticks and stones my friend, sticks and stones. I think the poster previous to you hit the nail on the head.

I'm biased about which operating system I consider the superior (and I've tried most of them), but at least I'm honest about it. Can you say the same?

[frup]

Well I can say out of my family my brother, me and 2 of my 4 cousins use Ubuntu. My girlfriend also uses Ubuntu. Her family also has a mac. My cousins step-father uses Mepis and Kubuntu. My brother and I have multiple machines. In total there are about 6 Linux based machines (plus many in bits)

My grandparents, my mother and her husband, my father, my aunties and their partners all use windows, a total of about 7-9 machines.

So lets say my family's and close relation's computers come to a total of 16 machines. 37.5% Linux, 6.2% Mac and 56.3% Windows.

There's a whole new market share for you but it's the one that matters to me. At one stage Linux usage was over half but unfortunately some people wanted to go back to windows, which is fine.

[Flag]

Using Ubuntu on all my private machines ( 3 ), but I hardly know any people using it, most people, as stated before, buy an operating system with a computer attached to it after heavy marketing.
Linux has the label attached that it's difficult ( not true ), you need to be a programmer to run it ( not true ), no hardware drivers ( true ), purchased software won't run ( partly true ) etc etc. So despite the possibilities of their, software included and preinstalled, purchased machine, they'll use about 1 % of its potential and are happy and with it and don't care. Did you ever see a MS user with OO installed ?, I didn't because under Windows you run of course MS Office, against a certain price.
As none of the ( free ) Linux based desktop OS are marketed as MS does it will stay that way, I think.;)

[deepclutch]

Completely on Linux for so many years with Debian.
--
One Question ,I think people will ignore most is ,the Linux Penetration 3rd world countries *ESPECIALLY* India and China must be calculated.I know ,Linux and Open Source is around me.No One ridicules about it.some are talking about RHCE/RHCA to LPICs .Kerala Government Supporting Open Source.those who uses computers ,heard and will be in future may choose Linux as well.Only Hardcore gamers who swerves away from GNU/Linux.

GNU/Linux Desktop Share is much more than Mac OS X (Whichneeds spending much ).while GNU/Linux is enforcing itself with the freedom it offers.definitely ,M$ coming against FOSS and GNU/Linux shows ,their internal marketwatch fellows sure did the mathematics to understands that mac is not the real Desktop Operating System -but GNU/Linux is.
Google ,Microsoft - Knows Much better statistics about Open Source and GNU/Linux. :D
With the near future 2 or 3 Base Distros with Ubuntu as the Pioneer will make More GNU/Linux Desktop users.so will be the support for GNU/Linux increments.
Don't Know about Europe or USA ,but Linux and FOSS adoption is almost religion in atleast some parts of the world(Asia especially).
three cheers!

[FLMKane]

Can some non-US folks share a bit more about this? I live in the US. Almost all of my social circle is college-educated, and a disproportionate number of them are graphic designers. So I get a skewed perception of how many Mac users they are out there.

I've only ever seen two macs in Bangladesh. One was too ancient for me to recognize, and the other is nine years old by now.

I'm dying to see OS X, but I dont think I ever will.

[deepclutch]

Mac systems are with quiet a few guys here(esp MBP's) .colleges running mac are also not rare- India.

[Jonas thomas]

I am extremly critical with linux, because, after 10 years, IS NOT WAS WE have expected, EVEN IT GOT THE POTENTIAL.

Again, you have NO IDEA what Windows 7 is from technical point of view. And I doubt you have any idea about how linux is from same technical point of view.

And for your knowledge, I am a developer, who work on/for Windows, MacOs and Linux.

I'm curious, specfically, what where you expecting that you haven't seen?
What potential do you feel is there but hasn't been realized?
(btw.. I haven't played with windows's 7 but rumour is that it's one of those situations improved that occured from:
Window 3.0 to 3.11
Windows 95- 98 second edition
Milleoum to 2000
Vista -> Window 7?

I haven't had 10 years of Linux (only ubuntu) under my belt, but from my brief 1+ year working with it, my impression is that Windows versus Linux that when Msft screws up they do it big way, just as when they improve it's usually fairly dramatic. My impression (if anyone has a counter view point based on experience feel free to chime in), is the Linux screw up/improvements tend to be much more incremental than quantum leaps. Am I off base in that impression?

[HermanAB]

Hmm, consider that a quantum leap is incredibly freaking small. It is the closest thing to zero that one can imagine...

[deepclutch]

yeah ,some technical expertise sure is needed to include a viral rootkit(DRM) established everywhere in a operating systems(Vista as well as 7) . ;) apart from that ,I feel microsoft leeched quiet a few *NIX practices.Don't you think so ?

[JackieChan]

This list is not accurate. Linux has a much bigger market share than what's shown, and Microsoft has a much smaller one (the retailers purchase the OS).

[yse]

I'm curious, specfically, what where you expecting that you haven't seen?
What potential do you feel is there but hasn't been realized?
(btw.. I haven't played with windows's 7 but rumour is that it's one of those situations improved that occured from:
Window 3.0 to 3.11
Windows 95- 98 second edition
Milleoum to 2000
Vista -> Window 7?

I haven't had 10 years of Linux (only ubuntu) under my belt, but from my brief 1+ year working with it, my impression is that Windows versus Linux that when Msft screws up they do it big way, just as when they improve it's usually fairly dramatic. My impression (if anyone has a counter view point based on experience feel free to chime in), is the Linux screw up/improvements tend to be much more incremental than quantum leaps. Am I off base in that impression?

Well, is pretty hard to explain considering your 1+ year experience with linux.

What you said about Windows is correct. At least at names evolution.

Now, lets back to linux, the problem is, linux distros change name and increment the builds, but you get almost same packages like 1 year ago, like 2 years ago and so on. And that's happened in last 10 years. Nothing who can catch with other OSes. I am looking and Apple, all linux community bash Apple.. but they did MAJOR development, consider only Quartz and composition.

There are no new things developed for linux right now, translate in new software technologies.

Ok, you can count ext2->ext3. But that's not enough. The OS in whole need much more that apache and M4 scripts.

Even now, there is NO cleartype font rendering in linux, because all font rendering is made via freetype and nobody bothered to by a licence for cleartype. Ok, lets say, cleartype is not good or is expensive. But opentype is not even wide adopted or implemented, not talking about fonts. Apple got AAP as a solution to cleartype patents. What "linux" did? Rely on freetype forever will NOT go to far.

That was just an example. Care to talk about things like DirectX? or COM? or .net or all new W7 stuff? or Apple stuff like Quatz composition?

Now, is good that you are happy with linux. Dont get to excited. Next year you will have probable some stuff like today.

In other words, dont expect to much.

Personally, i will vote for a commercial linux anytime. I would prefer to pay a linux distro and have a hope they will do something in the right direction( paid developers, new stuff, get necesary licenses, and so on).

I hope you got the point now.

[koenn]

Well, is pretty hard to explain considering your 1+ year experience with linux.OK, try me, then, I got a few years of experience with Linux and Windows, and I was also wondering what you meant with " IS NOT WAS WE have expected, EVEN IT GOT THE POTENTIAL "

For starters, Linux started out as a replacement for UNIX, or at least as a replacement for unix-like operating systems that ran on Intel 386 CPUs , not to compete with Windows or Mac or whatever. From what I can see, that goal was accomplished with flying colors.
So maybe it's just you're expectations are all wrong.

Your Microsoft examples of "innovation" are a bit off, too. Although new development, they're mainly born of necessity rather than pure innovation : COM was an attempt to deal with the complexity and long development cycles in programming for the Windows platform. .Net was an attempt to compete with Sun's Java and drive it out of the market. DirectX was yet another collection of API's that later evolved in a specialized, hardware-specific multi-media support. All of these things are more or less tied to Microsoft's development model or the Windows platform.

Inventing fonts doesn't rate very high on my priority list for OS development, so I'll let that pass.

All the while, in the open source / linux / free software area, innovation happens at a more fundamental level. The open source development model in itself is an innovation. Standards for interoperability are an innovation that no proprietary company could ever truly grasp. Innovative networking protocols such as bittorrent and ssh or tools like iptables were all invented and implemented in the open source community.

Maybe less spectacular that some cool desktop effect or a shiny new button on the taskbar, but where would your Windows and Macs be with all their "wow how innovative yet another new theme", but without the internet and all of its infrastructure that was invented in and runs on BSD and Linux ?

I hope you got the point now.

[yse]

Of course we cant talk about a new button as a major innovation.

The point was, Apple and Microsoft they did major steps forward, every ear. I cant say the same thing about linux.

Lets talk only Quartz and DirectX, my friend, those 2 platforms ARE extremely powerful and they raised the software development on Apple in Windows insane.

About internet you are wrong. Internet boom isn't because of Linux. Is OS independent, if it wasn't Linux was something else, anything else who could deal with TCP/servers. Don't matter what OS you put in game, Internet will grow.

[koenn]

Of course we cant talk about a new button as a major innovation.

The point was, Apple and Microsoft they did major steps forward, every ear. I cant say the same thing about linux.

Lets talk only Quartz and DirectX, my friend, those 2 platforms ARE extremely powerful and they raised the software development on Apple in Windows insane.

About internet you are wrong. Internet boom isn't because of Linux. Is OS independent, if it wasn't Linux was something else, anything else who could deal with TCP/servers. Don't matter what OS you put in game, Internet will grow.

The point is, Microsoft and Apple release an new version of their OS every 2-3 years (or sometimes at even greater intervals). They are then faced with the problem that they need to convince their user base to buy the new product, so they'll try to create a lot of buzz. Overall, this gives the impression that the development of their OS'es proceeds with large steps. Most of it is marketing, though. Although occasionaly, after notorious blunders (Me, Vista), the can show real improvements.


As for my point about the internet : I guess you just didn't get it. Too see the point, you need a perspective that you apparently are not (yet ?) capable of.

[yse]

The point is, Microsoft and Apple release an new version of their OS every 2-3 years (or sometimes at even greater intervals). They are then faced with the problem that they need to convince their user base to buy the new product, so they'll try to create a lot of buzz. Overall, this gives the impression that the development of their OS'es proceeds with large steps. Most of it is marketing, though. Although occasionaly, after notorious blunders (Me, Vista), the can show real improvements.


As for my point about the internet : I guess you just didn't get it. Too see the point, you need a perspective that you apparently are not (yet ?) capable of.

Well, i don't agree to much, you don't consider all the updates who comes from both Apple and Microsoft.

Also, new OS for them don't means just that. They release huge amount of SDK+docs also, and lots of other papers. Overall, is an impressive work, but for developers is more that welcome.

About Internet, sincerely, I don't get your point. You talk about perspective, i say the same. Internet wasn't not growing, and is not growing because of Linux. Let be fair with that. Linux was just a tool because was free. So, was good. If it wasn't Linux, was something else. Maybe other OS born from necessity.

[interllect]

;) In Europe Linux has seen a recent popularity surge

[koenn]

Well, i don't agree to much, you don't consider all the updates who comes from both Apple and Microsoft.
I don't consider bug fixes innovation, no. You do know the "don't roll out until service pack 1 is released" rule, don't you ?



Also, new OS for them don't means just that. They release huge amount of SDK+docs also, and lots of other papers. Overall, is an impressive work, but for developers is more that welcome. Yes, in stark contrast with open source, where apart from websites with all available documentation, public bug tracking systems, ... , you only all of the source code and mailing lists where you can discuss with the developers directly.



About Internet, sincerely, I don't get your point. You talk about perspective, i say the same. Internet wasn't not growing, and is not growing because of Linux. Let be fair with that. Linux was just a tool because was free. So, was good. If it wasn't Linux, was something else. Maybe other OS born from necessity.
I'm not talking about internet growth, I'm talking about the internet as such. You fail to see what an exceptionally innovative concept that is. I'm not saying linux caused this innovation, but rather that Linux is innovative in much the same way the internet is, or that the innovative aspects of Linux and the innovative aspects of the internet are born from a truly innovative concept underneath them both.
You are not expected to understand this.

[Rumbl3]

The point is, Microsoft and Apple release an new version of their OS every 2-3 years (or sometimes at even greater intervals). They are then faced with the problem that they need to convince their user base to buy the new product, so they'll try to create a lot of buzz. Overall, this gives the impression that the development of their OS'es proceeds with large steps. Most of it is marketing, though. Although occasionaly, after notorious blunders (Me, Vista), the can show real improvements.


As for my point about the internet : I guess you just didn't get it. Too see the point, you need a perspective that you apparently are not (yet ?) capable of.

I agree with this. Instead of "baby steps" or whatever u want to call it they take giant steps. Which seems to cause some pretty big messes that i got tired of dealing with. vista, me etc. XP was a pretty decent system but now that it's about all dried up and all the new hotness of microsoft is being shoveled out i left that boat.

I like the way linux moves. it seems to take baby to normal "steps". Also doesn't try to shove a bunch of bs down your throat in the marketing department. Sad so many victims in this world that fall victim to the wolf in sheeps clothes M$ :evil:

Anyway i see the points being made tho and i agree with post like the one i quoted.

[yse]

I'm not talking about internet growth, I'm talking about the internet as such. You fail to see what an exceptionally innovative concept that is. I'm not saying linux caused this innovation, but rather that Linux is innovative in much the same way the internet is, or that the innovative aspects of Linux and the innovative aspects of the internet are born from a truly innovative concept underneath them both.
You are not expected to understand this.

Yeah, sorry, I fail to understand your logic about Internet and Linux.

[richg]

Here are some links you can use to back up your version of reality.

http://www.google.com/search?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=linux+market+share&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web

Rich

[yse]

Here are some links you can use to back up your version of reality.

http://www.google.com/search?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=linux+market+share&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web

Rich

That link dont prove anything really.

[MasterNetra]

Linux has been growing even with little to no market share. Why would it need it now?