A guy stepped on a landmine close to where I live

[Eisenwinter]

Hey.

So as you all (or most) probably know, I live in Israel. (and if you don't, just look to the left, and see "Location")

So, I live in the northern part of the country, and 40 years ago there was a war here, so the place is full of land mines.

Of course, they're all enclosed by fences with barbed wire and clear warning signs telling people not go there.

But on Sunday, just when I came back from at around 12:30pm (for those of you wondering, I'm a dairy farmer, I started work at 3am), I was getting ready to get some rest, and suddenly I heard an explosion, sounded rather close (about 2 kilometers or so).

I just thought it was military training.

In the evening I went to my parents' house, and my mom asked me if I heard about the guy who lost his leg. I said no, I didn't, and she told me that earlier a guy from Thailand, who came here to work, has stepped on a landmine in the old abandoned military camp, not too far from here (I can get there on foot in about 15 - 20 minutes).

I was shocked. I had actually heard the explosion, I heard it when it happened!

In the dairy farm I work with other guys from Thailand, and they know him.

He is now in the hospital, as far as I know. I hope he'll be alright.

But it just makes you think, I mean man, he's from the lowest class possible. What is he going to do now? Where is he going to work? How is he going to provide for his family?

It's heart breaking.

You are all welcome to share your thoughts.

[jimi_hendrix]

why was he poking around the camp?

[Eisenwinter]

That's exactly what I was wondering, and the answer is unknown.

It was 2 guys, they were hanging around there, I don't know why.

The other guy called for help.

[Maheriano]

Damn, I want to visit countries like this so I can get a better grasp of how the world works. Being the lowest in society here means working at McDonald's and having an iPod knockoff.

[Firestem4]

Damn, I want to visit countries like this so I can get a better grasp of how the world works. Being the lowest in society here means working at McDonald's and having an iPod knockoff.

Yeah...we live hard lives don't we.:(

[bsharp]

That sucks, I feel bad for his family. Although like jimi_hendrix pointed out, what was he doing around there? If all of the land mines are clearly marked out, he was kind of asking for it.

[MasterNetra]

Talk about a bad day...

[BGFG]

We've got infrared satellites that can find extinct riverbeds 20 ft below the earth's surface.( lord knows we need THAT kind of info) how is it that no one has thought to use such tech to map out all the world's expired, volatile mines a couple inches below ground ?

Why not task satellites over countries like Cambodia, Sudan, Colombia, Israel and just photograph where these killers are ?

But nah, lets spend a few more billion figuring out if there's water vapour in a star system a few light years from here or how red mars really is.

[avaralom]

That's really horrible, I hope he manages to recover as best he can.

I wonder if he probably couldn't understand the signs? I'm not sure what languages he knows and what the signs are written in. That's really unfortunate.

[BGFG]

Apologies, double post.

[Eisenwinter]

The signs are in hebrew, arabic, and english.

99% of those guys can't speak, let alone read, any of these languages.

2 days later (Tuesday, the incident was on Sunday), a warning letter has been sent to all residents of the area, and all foreign workers were notified about the landmines, and instructed not to cross fences in open fields in the area, and just generally not to go to places you don't know.

[billgoldberg]

I wasn't aware the caste system is being used outside of India.

--

Also why doesn't the military remove the landmines?

How long would it take to clear a few fields?

A week?

[Eisenwinter]

Also why doesn't the military remove the landmines?

How long would it take to clear a few fields?

A week?

The mines are very concentrated, it is said this area is one of the most landmineded areas in the entire world, as far as concentration goes.

It'd take ages to get them all out.

[WatchingThePain]

why was he poking around the camp?

Lol, that's what I like about Linux users..their problem solving abilities.
For all we know he was looking for weapons.
Would you walk into an area that was clearly labelled as having mines?. Could the guy read?. It's still tragic though.
Sad that all that stuff is lying around.

[Skripka]

We've got infrared satellites that can find extinct riverbeds 20 ft below the earth's surface.( lord knows we need THAT kind of info) how is it that no one has thought to use such tech to map out all the world's expired, volatile mines a couple inches below ground ?

Why not task satellites over countries like Cambodia, Sudan, Colombia, Israel and just photograph where these killers are ?

But nah, lets spend a few more billion figuring out if there's water vapour in a star system a few light years from here or how red mars really is.

Because landmines are made to be difficult to find and disarm short of being right on top of them with a metal detector, or setting them off.

[chris200x9]

Lol, that's what I like about Linux users..their problem solving abilities.
For all we know he was looking for weapons.
Would you walk into an area that was clearly labelled as having mines?. Could the guy read?. It's still tragic though.
Sad that all that stuff is lying around.

[QUOTE=Eisenwinter;6838668]The signs are in hebrew, arabic, and english.

99% of those guys can't speak, let alone read, any of these languages.
/QUOTE]

[Grant A.]

Well, the man probably couldn't read Hebrew/Arabic.

Why doesn't the military just disarm all of those things? I mean, the military of Israel could probably start a chain reaction to remove all of those landmines once and for all so that no one gets hurt again.

[Firestem4]

Well, the man probably couldn't read Hebrew/Arabic.

Why doesn't the military just disarm all of those things? I mean, the military of Israel could probably start a chain reaction to remove all of those landmines once and for all so that no one gets hurt again.

I'd imagine they could. The easiest way to disarm them (as the OP says such a concentrated amount of Land Mines) Would be to just set them all off. Being a restricted area I don't imagine any accidents happening to nearby people (and of course there will be no one allowed nearby if that happens).

Lug a grenade and take cover.

[WatchingThePain]

Plus it's kind of well known globally that a big red triangle or circle with a line means danger, regardless of language. A bit like this one.. and if not clearly labeled then he might have a case for compensation.

[Rocket2DMn]

This is really sad, but unfortunately this thread doesn't meet the guidelines for the Community Cafe (emphasis added):

The Community Chat area is for lighthearted and enjoyable discussions, like you might find around a water cooler at work.
Closing the thread.

[matthew]

Rocket was acting within forum guidelines and appropriately when he closed the thread. However, on the basis of this Resolution Center request (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1087156), I am going to reopen the discussion.

Please continue as you have been doing, keeping politics and grumpiness out of the conversation. Thanks!

[Roofdaddy]

I'v heard on the tv that there starting to use honey bees in place of dogs to snif those things out. They train them with suger water and equate the radiation the mine gives off to the water.

Good news for dog lovers I guess.

[jimi_hendrix]

We've got infrared satellites that can find extinct riverbeds 20 ft below the earth's surface.( lord knows we need THAT kind of info) how is it that no one has thought to use such tech to map out all the world's expired, volatile mines a couple inches below ground ?

Why not task satellites over countries like Cambodia, Sudan, Colombia, Israel and just photograph where these killers are ?

But nah, lets spend a few more billion figuring out if there's water vapour in a star system a few light years from here or how red mars really is.

or on things like oder research (i think thats a point in the stimulus bill)...we really need to get our priorities right...

[3rdalbum]

We've got infrared satellites that can find extinct riverbeds 20 ft below the earth's surface.( lord knows we need THAT kind of info) how is it that no one has thought to use such tech to map out all the world's expired, volatile mines a couple inches below ground ?

Why not task satellites over countries like Cambodia, Sudan, Colombia, Israel and just photograph where these killers are ?

Land mines are hundreds of times smaller than extinct riverbeds. Form a circle with both your hands and that's about the size of anti-personnel landmines. Satellite imagery simply can't pick up anything that small.

There are big minesweeping machines that could be used to clear those minefields, at no danger to people. The teams on Scrapheap Challenge even built a functional one out of junk.

[BGFG]

Land mines are hundreds of times smaller than extinct riverbeds. Form a circle with both your hands and that's about the size of anti-personnel landmines. Satellite imagery simply can't pick up anything that small.

There are big minesweeping machines that could be used to clear those minefields, at no danger to people. The teams on Scrapheap Challenge even built a functional one out of junk.

I saw some being developed by Japanese scientists recently. i still say satellites are something to work on.

Radio waves, infra red, something has got to work...

[Skripka]

I saw some being developed by Japanese scientists recently. i still say satellites are something to work on.

Radio waves, infra red, something has got to work...

They are terrible weapons that are made to be hard to find...moreso by the fact that they come in all manner of materials.

I can hazard a few guesses as to why the field hadn't been cleared both militarily and politically, being cognizant of Israel and the mess mess in the Mid East-but I ain't gonna go there and would just assume we don't.


Landmines suck.

[JackieChan]

Poor guy! I really hope things get better for him. :(

[BGFG]

Landmines suck.

Indeed. :(

[markusf21]

Its really sad to hear about things like this happening. I feel bad for the poor guy.
These fields really need to be cleaned. I saw something on Future Weapons a while back, (Discovery Channel) that would work to clear the fields. Basically it looked like a tank with a spinning drum out in front of it. The drum had chains attached that swung around very fast. They would smash into the ground and set the mines off. It was pretty cool to see.

[amitabhishek]

I wasn't aware the caste system is being used outside of India.

Sigh! Here you go again!!! Talk about being off topic :(

[solwic]

Damn, I want to visit countries like this so I can get a better grasp of how the world works. Being the lowest in society here means working at McDonald's and having an iPod knockoff.

And we think we have it bad...that's the sad part.

[Eisenwinter]

There are ares with mines literally 2 minutes walking from me, some of them are very close.

I live in a little village on a mountain, so throughout the mountains around here there's mines, like if you'd just go in a straight line down the mountain, you're more than likely to step into a mine field.

[mips]

So, I live in the northern part of the country, and 40 years ago there was a war here, so the place is full of land mines.


One would have thought that after 40yrs they would have cleared the mines by now.

Truly tragic, happens a lot north of me in Mozambique.

[Thelasko]

I'm assuming the OP lives in the Golan Heights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights). This part of Israel is still disputed to this day. The landmines are likely present to discourage the Syrians from invading (or vice versa). This type of thing is common along disputed borders. I believe the Korean Demilitarized Zone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Demilitarized_Zone) has a higher concentration of landmines than this region. Here is an example of the signs one would see in this area. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Minefield_warning.JPG)

[MikeTheC]

That was really an unfortunate situation. I hope the gentleman in question recovers.

Now, that being said, I would have thought the Allies or possibly the original Israeli organizational authorities (way back in the day) would have simply removed or destroyed the landmines. Why leave them laying around?

[BGFG]

That was really an unfortunate situation. I hope the gentleman in question recovers.

Now, that being said, I would have thought the Allies or possibly the original Israeli organizational authorities (way back in the day) would have simply removed or destroyed the landmines. Why leave them laying around?

landmines are tools of war, and really devious ones at that.I Don't think that the kind of person that would bury a bomb in the hopes that an enemy would step on it is going to say, well wars over, lets go clean up....As for other organizations, too dangerous and expensive to attempt.

Easier just to stick up a sign and say don't walk here.

[wmcbrine]

Land mines don't care who you are or how long ago the fighting ended. Pure evil.

http://www.icbl.org/
http://www.banminesusa.org/

[Thelasko]

...well wars over, lets go clean up....

Just because there is no fighting, it doesn't mean the war is over. From the military's perspective, the war is still going on. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_conflict)

The man in question was the unfortunate victim of a military stalemate. There are millions like him around the world.

[MikeTheC]

Wait a minute here. Who actually constructed that mine field? I'm assuming then it wasn't there for WWII if the "war" in question is still on.

[Thelasko]

Wait a minute here. Who actually constructed that mine field? I'm assuming then it wasn't there for WWII if the "war" in question is still on.

Considering it's 2009, 40 years ago would be the late 1960's. Around that time Israel had a little conflict known as the Six-Day War. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War)

It could be said that the Six-Day War was just a battle in the on going Arab-Israeli Conflict.

[dragos240]

why don't they the mines out, so this doesn't happen?

[mips]

why don't they the mines out, so this doesn't happen?

Probably politics. This way no one can settle on the land.

[Maheriano]

How much weight does it take to set it off? I think it would make for a fun afternoon to make a catapult and fire rocks into the field for a few hours. Or put a rock on a long rope and drag it across a corner of the field, I'd do stuff like that.

[Eisenwinter]

How much weight does it take to set it off?
I'm not sure about the exact weight, but it has been raining here a lot in the last 2 weeks. The rain softens the soil, and the mines float upwards towards the higher ground, so they're even easier to set off.

[MikeTheC]

Actually, stepping on a mine isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world.

There's always:
Lawrence Welk show re-runs
Neil Diamond Christmas Music (now there's irony for you)
Barney The Purple Dinosaur Children's music
Phyllis Diller singing "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Throats)
Leonard Nimoy singing "If I Had A Hammer" by Peter, Paul and Mary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Throats)
William Shatner singing either "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" or "Mr. Tambourine Man" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Throats)
Listening to poetry by Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_characters_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_ the_Galaxy#Paula_Nancy_Millstone_Jennings_of_Green bridge.2C_Essex)

[s.fox]

I saw program on television about rats that clear our landmines.

[billgoldberg]

Sigh! Here you go again!!! Talk about being off topic :(

I was responding to the comment in the OP:



I mean man, he's from the lowest class possible

[Paqman]

Its really sad to hear about things like this happening. I feel bad for the poor guy.
These fields really need to be cleaned. I saw something on Future Weapons a while back, (Discovery Channel) that would work to clear the fields. Basically it looked like a tank with a spinning drum out in front of it. The drum had chains attached that swung around very fast. They would smash into the ground and set the mines off. It was pretty cool to see.

That's called a flail. They're not really new at all, they were in widespread use in WWII. I don't really like Future Weapons, it's basically just a long ad for one particular weapon system, and always bigs it up ridiculously even if it's not revolutionary.

Flails are actually one of the better ways to demine, but a lot of it still has to be done on foot. It's a slow, expensive and hazardous process.

Antipersonnel landmines are now subject to a treaty that most western nations have signed up to (I believe the US is refusing to sign as it uses vast belts of AP landmines in the Korean DMZ). However, you won't stop other nations from sowing new fields as they're just too effective. Professional western armies have also long used quite stringent criteria for recording minefields, but other armies have been much more haphazard, and records often get lost in wartime. End result: there are a ridiculous amount of totally unmapped minefields in some countries. It's a massive problem, and there isn't an easy solution. As has been mentioned the mines are designed to be difficult to detect, even at point blank range. Some of them contain almost no metal, so you can't always find them with metal detectors . The guys that clear these things actually lie down on the ground and work their way forward pushing a probe into the ground. It's low-tech, but it works.

[Seaco]

maybe it could be a stupid suggestion.

If when rains, the lad mines are more easily to go off
lets put fire truck, and with the soil becoming all wet and with the pressure of releasing water out, would help some of the mines go off.

maybe dosent work, but there must be more inexpensive ways of deactivating land mines or making them go boom

[mips]

maybe it could be a stupid suggestion.

If when rains, the lad mines are more easily to go off
lets put fire truck, and with the soil becoming all wet and with the pressure of releasing water out, would help some of the mines go off.

maybe dosent work, but there must be more inexpensive ways of deactivating land mines or making them go boom

There a a few methods available to detonate landmines. The problem is you will never be sure whether you got them all or not. The major problem actually lies with detection more than anything else.

[mips]

I saw program on television about rats that clear our landmines.

That would be in Mozambique which is not to far from me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroRATS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APOPO

[Thelasko]

Actually, stepping on a mine isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world.

There's always:
Lawrence Welk show re-runs
Neil Diamond Christmas Music (now there's irony for you)
Barney The Purple Dinosaur Children's music
Phyllis Diller singing "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Throats)
Leonard Nimoy singing "If I Had A Hammer" by Peter, Paul and Mary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Throats)
William Shatner singing either "Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds" or "Mr. Tambourine Man" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Throats)
Listening to poetry by Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_characters_from_The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_ the_Galaxy#Paula_Nancy_Millstone_Jennings_of_Green bridge.2C_Essex)

You forgot Celine Dion covering AC/DC's "You Shook Me All Night Long" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7468837.stm) I still have nightmares about it.

Seriously though, landmines are scary.

[HavocXphere]

If when rains, the lad mines are more easily to go off
Unfortunately they need a decent weight to trigger it. e.g. a small cat might not, but a big dog might.

Anti-personnel mine laying is one of the things that I just can't comprehend. It must take a very special kind of #$%@-up person to lay those things in places where there is a chances of hitting toddlers (or any civilians for that matter).:frown:


Antipersonnel landmines are now subject to a treaty that most western nations have signed up to
And yet they show up in places like that UK arms show a year or so back.

Flails are mainly used against anti-tank mines if I understand it correctly. e.g. The Casspir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casspir

[Paqman]

And yet they show up in places like that UK arms show a year or so back.


I'm not sure if the Ottawa Treaty even covers private companies?



Flails are mainly used against anti-tank mines if I understand it correctly. e.g. The Casspir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casspir

I think it's the other way round. AT mines are pretty powerful, a lot would wreck the flail, especially some of the nasty shaped charge types. It's a moot point anyway, as you often get AP in with your AT mines (to hinder enemy sappers trying to clear the AT mines)

[mips]

Flails are mainly used against anti-tank mines if I understand it correctly. e.g. The Casspir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casspir

Two of my friends have been in Casspirs that set off mines. They are both fine.

An adapted version of the Casspir, the Plofadder, is used for mine clearing.

[HavocXphere]

Two of my friends have been in Casspirs that set off mines.
Wow that must have been quite an experience. I've been in Casspirs too...but minus the mine going off under it.;)


I'm not sure if the Ottawa Treaty even covers private companies?
It was some east bloc company trying to pull off some under the table deals. The arms show was set up by BAE I think. In *this* case they got caught and were thrown out, but it kind makes you think how many times they haven't. For some reason I can't find any links on this though. Weird.

[Maheriano]

maybe it could be a stupid suggestion.

If when rains, the lad mines are more easily to go off
lets put fire truck, and with the soil becoming all wet and with the pressure of releasing water out, would help some of the mines go off.

maybe dosent work, but there must be more inexpensive ways of deactivating land mines or making them go boom
You assume these countries have enough money to own a fire truck and have readily available water. This is a luxury in some parts of the world. In some places the chances of being saved from a fire is whether or not your neighbour leaves you as he's running out the door.

The guys that clear these things actually lie down on the ground and work their way forward pushing a probe into the ground. It's low-tech, but it works.
A friend of mine does that with the Canadian Army. Probe at a 45 degree angle, remove, dismantle, continue.

[mips]

Wow that must have been quite an experience. I've been in Casspirs too...but minus the mine going off under it.;)


I honestly dont know as I was not there. I missed the whole conscription thing.

[MikeTheC]

You forgot Celine Dion covering AC/DC's "You Shook Me All Night Long" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7468837.stm) I still have nightmares about it.

Seriously though, landmines are scary.

I don't know about that. I mean, it may have been bad, but was it as bad as this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0hTtsqiFCc)

[diskotek]

well, is it really important to ask why this guy is hanging there or the language of the signs???
question have to be "why there are landmines?". if we compare with the on going war it's really strange to talk about that.

may be i'm looking like changing the subject into something else but so many people died in middle east so far. doesn't anybody thinks that "it's enough"?...

****** weapon industry!!!!

note: as i know (i might be wrong) most landmined area is kambodia.

[Thelasko]

I don't know about that. I mean, it may have been bad, but was it as bad as this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0hTtsqiFCc)

He's just talking. You can judge for yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONt47Z0KZg)

[Faolan84]

Wait, these landmines have been sitting there in the ground for forty years and the government knows where they are, has the ability to detect them, and even safely retrieve them -- and they are totally unwilling to do so. Excuse me, but itsn't that basically a form of manslaughter on part of the Israeli government?

Secondly, it's been forty years, exactly how long does it take for the chemicals in these things to break down? I mean, even non-organic basic pharmaceutics go bad, so do plastics, and metals corrode and rust. Wouldn't being exposed to the climate and the soil for that long of time wear them ineffective? And if this is not the case, then why are they built so that they do stay active for such an unsafe amount of time.

I understand that this guy was in a restricted area where he had no business going, but let's be real here, those things should not have been in the ground and active in the first place.

[tom66]

AFAIK most modern explosives have a chemical added to them which only makes them last a few years, to prevent stockpiling.

[Eisenwinter]

I received news today that the Thai guy who stepped on the landmine has had his leg amputated from the knee down.

I asked a co-worker what is he going to do now, since he can no longer work, and he (co worker) told me that he (thai guy) will get money from the Israeli government, a compensation money, for what happened to him.

I hope all will be well with him.

[aaaantoine]

Damn, I want to visit countries like this so I can get a better grasp of how the world works. Being the lowest in society here means working at McDonald's and having an iPod knockoff.

If you think that's the lowest in society here, you're somewhat proving a point about just how low on the totem pole the homeless are.

So low, you (we) don't even remember they exist sometimes.

[Paqman]

I received news today that the Thai guy who stepped on the landmine has had his leg amputated from the knee down.

I asked a co-worker what is he going to do now, since he can no longer work, and he (co worker) told me that he (thai guy) will get money from the Israeli government, a compensation money, for what happened to him.

I hope all will be well with him.

If they took it off below the knee he should be pretty much ok if they sort him out a decent prosthetic leg, but if it was above the knee...then that sucks.

[Faolan84]

If you think that's the lowest in society here, you're somewhat proving a point about just how low on the totem pole the homeless are.

So low, you (we) don't even remember they exist sometimes.

I've been homeless before. Trust me, he's right. To make things worse if you ever become homeless it becomes so hard to find a job afterwards because most places will not hire some one without a permanent address or that has housing issues. It also messes with your credit rating too and even if you pay all your debts it still affects you in a negative light.

I don't even like to talk about my experience. I lost most of my valuables because they were stolen. The only not taken from me was my books. The f*ers even stole my ocarinas (probably thought it was some sort of bong). Other people in the area weren't so lucky, another guy had most of his stuff stolen then the guys slashed his tarps and ripped a hole in his tent.

[DonaldJ]

Seems no-matter how down you are, there's always someone to prey upon you... Even if you're a corpse, there's always someone close-by who will go through your pockets...

Even the homeless bag-people have their aggressors robbing them...
A TV network did a documentary on it last week... They interviewed a reasonably strong healthy fellow, who just happened to be bit down on his luck for a while, and he was sleeping under his cardboard boxes, and three mugger-guys with blades robbed him of everything he had, even his shoes and socks...

My lady friend had rented a shack in India while she attended an ashram, and someone broke-in and cleaned it out... She had-to phone me collect for a loan... I bought her air ticket back to north-America...

StarTrek did a excerpt in one of its television series, showing a bag-lady with $25-grand hidden in her shopping cart.. and suddenly bottom of the barrel bag-people where being mugged by bottom of the barrel thieves, and their shopping cart possessions ransacked and strewn all over the alleys...

Eight times, thieves tried desperately to rob all my life's tools.. but I've been vigilant, quick, lucky, and strong...
The last-time it happened, was at my relative's place where I had three sheds full of my life's work tools... I just happened to drive up, and noticed a very old alkie fellow being the watch for my relative's blue-car.. and when I drove into the driveway in my silver-car, my relative's car wasn't there, and the new-neighbor had a four-foot crowbar in hand, with two big gorilla buddies at his side, all of them half way to my shed... They quickly turned around, and hummed and hahhed, pretending to be checking their walkway's bricks with the tool, very bad acting, it was too obvious that they were about to rob my sheds, and got caught...
I moved everything out to my basement the next day.. the whole time the guy glaring at me for not letting him steal my several thousands of dollars in tools, nearly every tool you can think of... That one was just too close!.. That's how I earn my living... Hey! They were messing with my Life!..

People need be taught that stealing is wrong... so is war... and land-mines are not nice... Just where is humanity going..?

______________________________


I think there's a way to detect mines in front of you, without stepping on them... You pause, and look along your route.. then image yourself walking the next hundred feet.. then image yourself tomorrow... If you are in your tomorrow, then you probably didn't step on a mine traversing that hundred feet... If you aren't in your tomorrow vision, then you can bet there's a mine along your path... Pick a different trajectory, and do the dream again... Eventually, with a lot of work, you could make your mine sense into a "sixth sense", and keep your legs longer... Maybe this trick should be taught in Arabic schools..? OucH! this means you can't go for a relaxing stroll out in the country... That's gotta sting...
Out here in north America they set up coyote-mines in farmer fields... They can hurt.. and the ones with cyanide granules can kill...

Doesn't the rain expose old mines..?

Couldn't people make-shift redirect rivers for a while, to uncover old mines..? Then redirect them back, clean out the exposed mines, and use those new riverbeds as footpaths..? What's stopping the population from building carts with metal reinforced spinning "cat of nine tails" things with rubberized steel balls, and push them on mined areas, with huge long poles, or pull them with cables or ropes, to detonate those old mines reasonably safely..? You sure don't want to go raking over them... but maybe a rake with a fifty-foot handle, might do it..? But you would sure want to wear some face and ear, hands, and chest protection... And who knows, it might be fun... "BaHWaM!.... BahhahWaMah!... KaBoomah.... Bang!... BoomMM!... SploosH!"...
Just how close to a detonating land-mine is considered to reasonably safe...?
They are mostly plastic aren't they..? So you probably wouldn't get hit by any serious shrapnel.. mostly sand, dirt, and rocks.. and the sudden shock of the boom...

I must invent a way for you people to clean out those mines...
I'm working on it...

[Slow Mike]

:( Hi,I live in England,the blessed Ilse,and as you know we do not have
land mines.It breaks my heart to hear your story and I have one to share
with you.Next door to my parents lives a man who likes to cut financial
corners.He employed some very poor eastern european builders to extend
his house.He was not prepared to pay for scaffolding or safety equipment,
as a result, when the front of the building collapsed accidentally,it fell
on one of the builders.He was very seriously injured;I know because I helped
to dig him out and treated him till the paramedics came.My parents neighbour
was sent to prison for 3 months and fined 95,000 pounds.The poor man will
never work again and has to be cared for by his family.How often the poor
suffer at the hands of the power mongers,the ignorant,the selfish and the
greedy!
Shalom.

[DonaldJ]

I hope this is acceptable by the forum mods standards... If not, then simply delete this post.. Don't bite me.. I am only trying to do good...
_______________________


To defuse land-mines, what's needed is an unmanned rolling thing, which is heavy enough to set-off the most least-sensitive mines, and not suffer damage from a powerful tank-mine detonation, therefore it must be fast enough to detonate a mine, and be out of the detonation area when the mine does detonate, and sturdy enough to take the perimeter of the blasts... It must be self-propelled, efficient, remote-controlled, and light-weight, about 300-pounds...

I suggested to the powers, three mine defusing devices, two of which they built.. but they are heavy, and extremely expensive... The little third world nations need something small and inexpensive...

They built the forks item I detailed to them... Huge long spring loaded forks that dig into the ground ahead of a shielded bulldozer...

And the huge tumbler, with rubberized spinning balls... They built that one too...

But I haven't seen the "thumper" yet... It has a huge 2 to 5 ton foot, which slams onto the ground, shaking the ground so hard that caves fall-in, and bombs detonate.. but it probably wouldn't detonate the average land-mine, which has a simple compression/decompression trigger...

Microwaves would need to be lethal for hundreds of meters around, to even begin to be effective.. so that's out...

The huge forks would be only useful in sand and gravel...

The one I likes is the huge wheel made of spring steel rods, with knurly metal balls on the ends of rubberized spring steel rods... It is self-propelled with an internal gas engine... It zooms along the ground, bashing the ground with its steel balls, setting off mines, and clearing the immediate blast field by its speed... I suppose above a certain fast-enough velocity, mine detonations wouldn't effect the mine clearing device... A "Mine-Mower"... If only I had a lab and machine-shop...

I can't build things in my backyard, just on the lawn, with these crappy garage-sale tools I have... In this neighborhood, leave even a shiny new vise-grip plier out over night, and it's gone in the morning...

A couple years ago, I was tidying up my junk items shed, when I noticed in the little pile of undetermined odds, three interesting fat little RV wheels, and tiny marine outboard motor, a couple of bent steel tubes, some wood, and a small partial boat-hull...
I assembled them all-together, by just setting them against each other, and by propping items against and on each other, to make it look like "a three-wheeled land and water capable, mini RV, with two engines, steering, snowmobile windshield, and a fisherman's swivel-boat-seat... That night the crack-house dudes a few doors down the street, assembled a crew of eight fellows, all dressed in black, to steal this exciting new RV toy for themselves, not realizing that it wasn't real, but only a few bits of junk just piled together to look like a fun toy... Upon seeing the group of eight mulling around the neighbor's yard, I immediately dismantled the illusion into its base components, and the thieves all went home, with "a burst-bubble"... Thing is, I just can't build things here in this area...

Who on earth is working on land-mine clearing equipment..? Maybe I can help... Clearing those land-mines should be humanity's number-One priority... Just do it.. and then it's done and over with.. and no more kids feet and legs getting blown off... The manufacturers and sellers of those land-mines should be held responsible for the removal of all their people killer land-mines from the planet... Someone should do a TV interviews with all those manufacturer's execs and their families, to show humanity just how they think, and what they think of Life on this planet... Humanity needs to see the faces, and hear the words, and know the attitudes, of those who are making this a hell on earth... Put the evil ones in the spotlight, and expose them to the world, and to themselves... Show humanity (us) just who it is who it is who is carelessly destroying humanity and the planet for money, Money, MONEY......


"Land-Mines have killed or maimed over 1-million people since 1975"
That's a Lot... It has to stop... Those are good People, just like us... They are our brothers and sisters, even if they aren't blood related... They are part of humanity.. part of the brotherhood of mankind... They need our help... Lets make this a global priority-one... Lets do something good for humanity... Not fun having your feet blown off from some bit of dangerous junk that was left over from some crazy-war a long time ago... I have an idea how it feels to have something blown off.. I lost fingertips in an explosion, and nearly lost my hand... The detonation sent me flying backwards through tree-tops 30-feet up, and I lost nearly two-quarts of blood in just minutes... Not fun!..


http://www.icbl.org/lm/2006/maps/index.html

http://www.cpi.org/index.php

http://www.pulseplanet.com/dailyprogram/dailies.php?POP=2228

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:h0GvzvfQJX8J:www.clearlandmines.com/The%2520Hindu%2520re%2520April%25204%252007.pdf+ma ps+of+landmines+on+the+planet&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=landmines&btnG=Search&meta=

[Eisenwinter]

@DonaldJ; yeah well man, lets hope the Israeli government visits this forum, reads your post, and takes your advice.

For some reason, I'm pretty sure they have an interest in not removing the mines.

<personal opinion>

Last thing regarding politics, I hate all governments in general, especially the Israeli and US one.

</personal opinion>

<back to thread>

[mikewhatever]

Land mines are a real problem in the after war years with no practical solution for removing them. The difficulty is not only in detecting a mine, but also with extracting it from the ground and handling afterwards. I liked DonaldJ's solutions thou, especially the imaginative one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_mine#Demining_.28Detecting_and_removing.29

Whereas the placing and arming of landmines is relatively inexpensive and simple, the process of detecting and removing them is typically expensive, slow, and dangerous. This is especially true of irregular warfare where mines were used on an ad hoc basis in unmarked areas. Anti-personnel mines are most difficult to find, due to their small size and the fact that many are made almost entirely of non-metallic materials specifically to escape detection.

Manual clearing remains the most effective technique for clearing mine fields, although hybrid techniques involving the use of animals and robots are being developed. Animals are desirable due to their strong sense of smell, which is more than capable of detecting a land mine [16]. Animals like rats and dogs can also differentiate between other metal objects and land mines because they can be trained to detect the explosive agent itself.[17]

Other techniques involve the use of geo-location technologies. A joint team of researchers at the University of New South Wales and Ohio State University is working to develop a system based on multi-sensor integration[1].

[DonaldJ]

Generally I send these high-powered posts to all the authorities.. but this time I'll leave that for others to copy and send it to the majors...

Something has to be done to re-establish humanity's respect in humanity, or pretty soon there won't be a humanity...

Humans have just got to stop hurting humans... How are we ever gonna have "peace on earth" if there's always this people-killing going on..?

The thing is that it's all about religion and money... Maybe if we deleted both, then we might stand a chance of surviving our extreme hate for ourselves... It's all about "gold-fever" gone wild...

We gave Barter to Money.. and when we did that we gave the reigns of humanity and Life to Money... Money needs be extincted, and replaced with something else.. something that the criminal element can't exploit.. whatever that be..?

"Peace on Earth" is a nice word phrase.. but we won't get it just by saying it...

"Owie!" My hand stings in many places from focusing upon the old damages... It took 87 sutures to reassemble it... It looks and works pretty good.. That world renowned plastic-surgeon was the best in north America... He just happened to be finishing-up an eight-hour operation in that hospital...

When you are in an explosion, you don't feel it in the slightest, but for a a gentle warm puff of wind.. then the blast ball seems to suddenly grow thousands of blades, and the multiple stings last only a couple seconds, and then there are a lot of strange pressures.. But a few minutes later is whole other story.. That's when different types of pain and shock hit you Hard!.. One type of shock can make you tense-up and straighten right out in a Flash.. Another can drop you to your knees unconscious for a moment.. That's the Worst one.. Another makes your head feel like it's spinning inside... And the Pain.. WhooH! You just can't escape the Pain... It feels like it wants to Eat you up...
And you can't cry... All you can do is Squirm and Writhe, and try to remember to breathe, and hope you don't run out of blood...
The best thing that can happen to you then, is for someone to tickle you on the soft part of your inner elbow.. It puts you to sleep no matter how big the trauma is... Hospitals should have "arm-ticklers" on staff...

Next time you are caring for an accident victim, roll up their shirt-sleeve, and softly tickle the inside of the elbow, and they will close their eyes in peaceful sleep... Take great caution to not get their blood on your skin... These days that can be a death sentence... I use this tickling trick when ever I come upon serious traffic accidents...
The emergency crews come on the scene to see me sitting in the victim's vehicle, tickling their arm, with the damaged victim sleeping comfortable.. all cut-up, and bleeding, but asleep, and with a relaxed smile.. and they always ask, "What Are You Doing?!".. But they never listen to the explanation.. They don't have time to listen to a story.. They do their job...

[bapoumba]

The thread is drifting again. Closing for Staff evaluation, thanks.

[matthew]

I was pretty skeptical that the discussion could be kept away from politics, but we gave it a shot.

Sorry, political discussion is outside the scope of this forum.