Think Linux Rules on Netbooks?

[richg]

Reality again. Your version may be different.

http://news.yahoo.com/i/1817;_ylt=AgeAZbl_RCI.cFLUD2HE5MsjtBAF

Rich

[smartboyathome]

Who cares? All I know is that I want one. ;)

[Sealbhach]

Whatever, as someone else said recently, I'm quite happy on the fringe.


.

[easybake]

It says 90% of all netbooks are windows. Inferring that the other 10% is linux, it is a very a large portion compared to linux's current share of the desktop market. It's netbook share is the as Apple's current market share on desktops. Small steps people... small steps.

[kevin11951]

It says 90% of all netbooks are windows. Inferring that the other 10% is linux, it is a very a large portion compared to linux's current share of the desktop market. It's netbook share is the as Apple's current market share on desktops. Small steps people... small steps.

dell recently said 1/3rd, asus sells quite a few linux pcs, this has to be wrong.

[cardinals_fan]

Was I supposed to care?

[richg]

I picked up an Linux Asus a year ago. I love it. Great for traveling.

By the way, I did say your reality version might be different.

Rich

[init1]

90%? That makes sense. Microsoft has 90% of the total desktop share. Most of the remaining 10% is Apple, but of course Apple hasn't released a netbook yet.

[Ozor Mox]

Windows now has more than 90 percent of all netbook sales. The game is over.

You heard the article, folks. Might as well pack this Linux thing in, it's never going to work out.

Directed at the article and not you, richg! :)

[Twitch6000]

I am not getting it....

Am I suppose to give up on Linux or something?

If so then THINK AGAIN YOU WILL HAVE TO PREY IT OUT OF MY Hard Drive....

Okay for real though what is the point of this article? I am not caring as you see I am not caring lol...

[wolfen69]

game over. i give up. windows, i love you!

[JackieChan]

90%? That makes sense. Microsoft has 90% of the total desktop share. Most of the remaining 10% is Apple, but of course Apple hasn't released a netbook yet.
The Linux netbook sales are really going to suffer once they end up releasing a netbook.

[gymophett]

Yeah, a lot of people buy netbooks preloaded with Windows. Then they can put Linux on it, so this is not accurate.

[Tux Aubrey]

I am very suspicious of all "research" about OS "shipments". It depends on whether the figures come from OEMs or retailers or customers as to how a particular machine gets classified. For example, I have purchased two desktop machines in the past 12 months, both of which would "officially" be counted as Windows Vista sales even though both came with XP pre-installed and are now 100% Linux boxes.

And many netbooks don't even have a Linux option outside the US and Europe. I can only buy a Dell or HP netbook with XP pre-installed - so they get a 100% "shipped with Windows" result for Australia.

[gymophett]

game over. i give up. windows, i love you!

Are you for literal?

[DeadSuperHero]

Sheesh, seems like a lot (http://linsux.org/index.php?topic=879.msg6887#msg6887) of these kinds of things are going on right now.

[bakedbeans4life]

With Microsoft paying of every OEM and hardware vendor to limit what they can do with Linux, I'm amazed Linux is where it is today at all.

Microsoft have pulled every dirty trick they can get away with (and a few more) to cripple Linux adoption.

And articles coming from the tech-press seem more like Redmond sanctioned advertisements than anything else.

[Rotaj]

Who cares? All I know is that I want one. ;)

I have seen the Acer Aspire One for as little as $240US. I have one running Linux4One LXDE. Runs great. CrunchEEE is also amazing on it.

[zmjjmz]

Uh, US sales only? Considering that the netbook wouldn't make too much sense to a US Citizen (less use of public transportation, higher GDP = able to afford better computers, etc.) so I imagine that the US wouldn't account for that large of a marketshare in the netbook market.

Honestly, this is why I really don't listen to the big tech pundits these days. There's a reason why they're big tech pundits.

[Dylanby]

Netbooks may offer hackers private data gateway (http://www.canada.com/Technology/Netbooks+offer+hackers+private+data+gateway/1348536/story.html)

The versatility of Linux makes it a more ideal OS for the Netbook market, IMO.

[Flying caveman]

I bought two Ubuntu netbooks in February. So, I'd say it rules.

[thisllub]

10% market share of the fastest growing market segment is a big deal.

When the next big thing comes along it might be 20%.
Don't be surprised if BSD and OpenSolaris grow as Linux grows.

A large Microsoft is a good thing overall as they can afford to develop ideas. Then the Open Source community can give us choice.

Everyone wins.

My bet on the next big thing will be the integration of smartphones, pcs and next gen display technology.
This will eventually mean one computing device you take everywhere that connects wirelessly to input devices and displays.
Say within 5 years.

[Depressed Man]

Heck Windows running on a Netbook is a good thing too... it means Microsoft has to actually design their operating system without to much bloat. So in the case I ever do use Windows it's more resource friendly. :D

[cardinals_fan]

Netbooks may offer hackers private data gateway (http://www.canada.com/Technology/Netbooks+offer+hackers+private+data+gateway/1348536/story.html)

The versatility of Linux makes it a more ideal OS for the Netbook market, IMO.
Tech journalism reaches a new low.
"The Internet is full of dangers, regardless of what computer you are using," said Sam Yen, greater China marketing manager at anti-virus software maker Symantec.

"But keeping in mind that the netbook is primarily used to surf the Internet, those dangers are possibly multiplied many-fold, especially if there is no anti-virus software installed in the machine."

Price tags as low as $300 mean that netbooks often lack such standard gear as firewalls and other anti-virus software typically found in other computers, leaving them highly vulnerable to attacks.
After all, a major antivirus producer is a very reliable source when considering the need for their products, right? And normal laptops are almost never used to surf the web, right?

There are some more juicy quotes:
Low computing power also means savvy netbook users may shut down critical security programs to boost speed.
Some experts say netbooks' inability to run effective security could crimp future growth
I can't believe this. I just can't. Antivirus software is not a well-kept secret. The vastly overwhelming majority of people I know who have security issues are running at least one AV. Effective security should never require excessive resources. The idea that a memory-hogging, CPU-melting scanner is necessary at all times is a sick perversion of all logic and intelligence. This is exactly what is wrong with American culture (and its manifestations across the world) - we want a magic bullet that will solve everything for us, instead of learning or evolving ourselves. I'll stop the political diatribe now, but there's no denying that the media has become a wholly-owned subsidiary of software firms, or that "news" is little more than an advertisement available to the highest bidder. The idea that an underpowered machine is less secure is as nauseating as it is moronic.

*these criticisms are towards the article, not you Dylanby*

[lykwydchykyn]

Can someone explain the psychology of a person who actually roots for Microsoft's continued monopolization of the desktop OS? I mean, i can understand some people like Windows, and some people don't care much about other stuff; but why do you gleefully write things like "it's over for Linux"? Who wants Linux to fail? Why?

I don't get it.

[cardinals_fan]

Can someone explain the psychology of a person who actually roots for Microsoft's continued monopolization of the desktop OS? I mean, i can understand some people like Windows, and some people don't care much about other stuff; but why do you gleefully write things like "it's over for Linux"? Who wants Linux to fail? Why?

I don't get it.
Those who are overly competetive and can't stand the idea of Linux existing but not covering the earth? I don't know...

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Can someone explain the psychology of a person who actually roots for Microsoft's continued monopolization of the desktop OS? I mean, i can understand some people like Windows, and some people don't care much about other stuff; but why do you gleefully write things like "it's over for Linux"? Who wants Linux to fail? Why?

I don't get it.

I've always wondered that, too. But I don't even mind people disliking Linux (for example, in favour of BeOS / Haiku, which is awesome looking). The thing that always baffles me is just that one part: Why Windows?!

I sense some parallels with the weirdos who did this (http://www.storyofstuff.com/blog/?p=23).

[3rdalbum]

If ARM-based netbooks come out at lower price points than Windows netbooks, and become readily available at stores, we'll see the Linux netbook figure go over 10%. Not only does Windows not run on ARM, but no Windows programs do so it's not a case of "Microsoft will just port Windows to them".

But really, as far as I'm concerned, the ability to buy Linux-preloaded machines is a victory in itself. Linux is about choice, and having the choice not to buy Windows is what most users are after anyway. Unfortunately the choice is gone in Australia (the majority of netbooks only come in Windows variety down here) but let's hope some ARM netbooks get released here.

[Dylanby]

*these criticisms are towards the article, not you Dylanby*

Fair enough (and thank you). :) I agree the article has little value outside of entertainment value.

But I still think the versatility of Linux is a better fit for Netbooks. Linux can be locked down tighter without the use of third party applications. And if hardware vendors can increase their profitability by preloading Netbooks with the usual crapware/trialware that comes on most laptops they will.

With preloaded Linux and a customized GUI new users could be introduced to Linux without knowing that they're running Linux. As long as they are informed at the time of sale that the product is not a Windows "appliance", but more of an internet "appliance". The onus will be on the distributions that are supplying the vendors to streamline their distro so that the applications are accessible and the OS transparent.

[mips]

I'm just waiting for Apple to bring out a netbook as I suspect they will make a killing with their looks & marketing ala ipod etc.

[will1911a1]

I know people that bought the Windows version of netbooks and then installed Linux because of hardware differences between the two offerings.

Does the article account for that?

[Mr. Picklesworth]

Fair enough (and thank you). :) I agree the article has little value outside of entertainment value.

But I still think the versatility of Linux is a better fit for Netbooks. Linux can be locked down tighter without the use of third party applications. And if hardware vendors can increase their profitability by preloading Netbooks with the usual crapware/trialware that comes on most laptops they will.

With preloaded Linux and a customized GUI new users could be introduced to Linux without knowing that they're running Linux. As long as they are informed at the time of sale that the product is not a Windows "appliance", but more of an internet "appliance". The onus will be on the distributions that are supplying the vendors to streamline their distro so that the applications are accessible and the OS transparent.Unfortunately, most vendors are just showing their true colours: They suck at software.

For example, look at the abominations that are Sony's system recovery disks. Thanks to the truckload of bloatware that they throw on their computers (completely unconcerned about the outcome, just that it gives them some subsidies), the system recovery disks take way longer than any others since they run the individual installer for each piece of software. It takes forever, and errors appear continually. For example, from a CR210: "Norton 360 cannot be installed because this trial has expired. Date is 999999." (Evidently, the stuff it uses to check the system time was not running). The error happens every single time. It's clear to me they just didn't test the disk, and if they did they didn't care at all about presentation.

Look at how they all have the Office 2007 trial, (which, if I recall correctly, just has to be an installer when it ships) and some actually preinstall the whole suite. That would be okay if it wasn't Office Standard, with Outlook taking over as the default email program from Windows Mail. This puts the customer's personal email at the mercy of a 60 day trial and creates all sorts of issues down the line with regards to integration.

If Windows was a bit more modular, you can count on it: Idiot OEMs would ship out Windows PCs just like they ship out Linux ones. Broken, ugly, and customized for the sake of it. They don't seem to understand that the operating system is tested ahead of time for usability and actually does work better than, for example, HP's gluttonous "HP Advisor Bar."

[wmcbrine]

Can someone explain the psychology of a person who actually roots for Microsoft's continued monopolization of the desktop OS?I can only speculate, but perhaps it goes like this:

1. Buys a computer, with no particular research. Naturally it comes with Windows.
2. Finds out about Linux.
3. Realizes, "I've been a chump."
4. "But I cantz be a chump! I iz smart!"
5. Attempts to rationalize the decision (that they never really made) to choose Windows over Linux by trashing Linux.

Alternately (for a minority) --

1-2. Same as above.
3. Decides to actually try Linux.
4. Fails, because they're too used to the Windows way, and/or can't figure out something as simple as installing a new OS.
5-7. Same as 3-5 above.

Another group of detractors seems to be made up of pious capitalists, who just see Free Software as heretical.

[Fenris_rising]

My EEEPC 904HD was second hand and preloaded with windows XP. Before I inserted the USB stick primed with Ubuntu goodness to cleanse the poor thing I ran it with XP. Within seconds The answer to the cheap sale was clear. Malware, Spyware, and umpteen virus warnings popped up left right and center. It had anti virus on it but we all know thats only as good as the person with admin rights. The netbook was only 2 months old as well :D
So add me to the 10% of Linux netbook users :)

regards

Fenris

[bakedbeans4life]

I can only speculate, but perhaps it goes like this:

1. Buys a computer, with no particular research. Naturally it comes with Windows.
2. Finds out about Linux.
3. Realizes, "I've been a chump."
4. "But I cantz be a chump! I iz smart!"
5. Attempts to rationalize the decision (that they never really made) to choose Windows over Linux by trashing Linux.

Alternately (for a minority) --

1-2. Same as above.
3. Decides to actually try Linux.
4. Fails, because they're too used to the Windows way, and/or can't figure out something as simple as installing a new OS.
5-7. Same as 3-5 above.

Another group of detractors seems to be made up of pious capitalists, who just see Free Software as heretical.

I made a similar observation just after the release of XP, my god the flack I got from that.

I still have the same computer I had back then, I use it for distro-hopping. And many of those that told me I was an idiot for even thinking about something non-Microsoft are still paying for machines that don't run Vista very well. And they still tell me I'm an idiot, would you believe it? ;)

[BoyOfDestiny]

I'm planning on buying a netbook as well, today actually (I'd like to have it within a week from today.)
Preferably Linux pre-loaded (if not, Windows will get wiped out.)

As for the article, honestly, I skipped even reading it.

Many ubuntu users or new Linux users in general, that did not even buy a new machine, had to install over Windows. Just counting sales, is going to be horribly inaccurate. Just as MS likes to prop up Vista sales, it includes the copies on store shelves, that no one has even bought (yet?), as a sale.

So will Linux rule on the netbook? Let's see, Free software that I can tweak or upgrade as I please without having to replace a .dll.
Great memory and power management, better multi-tasking, no DRM.

Hmm... I can't think of anything better to run on a netbook. Now if someone bought a netbook expecting Windows, and found something different... I can imagine they would be dissatisfied. I would feel the same way if I ordered a linux computer, and it came with Windows. I would return the thing too! :D

Anyway, I'm looking at the asus's ones. I'd like to also use SSD rather than a traditional spinning hard drive. Hopefully the wear leveling is good enough. If anyone has recommendations on other models, I mostly care about not needing any proprietary kernel stuff. So this means I favor intel hardware for video and wireless. (So far, on all the other machines I maintain, I was able to remove the linux-restricted modules and not lose functionality.) I'd like to keep it this way :)

[richg]

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=556

Reason 10. Something Linux techies cannot handle.

Rich

[Giant Speck]

I don't like netbooks. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter what operating system is on it.

[aysiu]

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=556

Reason 10. Something Linux techies cannot handle.

Rich
I've noticed any time someone says "Let's face it. Windows is easier to use," they never have any real evidence to back it up. I laughed when the author said you had to compile applications. What is this--1999?

[swoll1980]

I've noticed any time someone says "Let's face it. Windows is easier to use," they never have any real evidence to back it up. I laughed when the author said you had to compile applications. What is this--1999?

I've known a couple of people that took their Linux netbooks back because it wouldn't work with their printer. I offered to set up a virtual post script, but no. Little things like this end being huge problems for people.

[aysiu]

I've known a couple of people that took their Linux netbooks back because it wouldn't work with their printer. I offered to set up a virtual post script, but no. Little things like this end being huge problems for people.
I tried to migrate my in-laws to a Mac Mini and it didn't work with their Canon printer (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/macs-are-just-computers-not-magic/) (which had worked fine in Windows). So are you then saying that Mac OS X isn't easy to use?

This is the part I had a problem with:
Let’s face it: Whatever else you might say about Windows, it is easier to use. We love our Start menu and our Task Manager and our system tray. Some of us are even starting to love our Vista Sidebar and gadgets. Young adults today never had to use MS-DOS, even if they started using computers at an early age, so they aren’t going to be comfortable at a Linux command line.

Don’t get me wrong — Linux has come a long way. But remember how far back it has had to come from — where just managing to install the operating system for a non-expert (and sometimes experts too) was considered a major triumph. There are still too many things in the Linux world that are expected to be done manually, like program installation. A majority of users will say, “I might have to compile something myself? No thanks.” Clearly the author is trying to say the interface isn't easy to use, not talking in that bit about hardware incompatibility.

I happen to know for a fact that most Windows users do not find it easy to use (even though it is more familiar to them):
Please stop pretending Windows “just works” (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/please-stop-pretending-windows-just-works/)

Every day (with few exceptions) I have a co-worker come to me in panic about some thing that isn't working in Windows or some thing they can't figure out how to do in Windows. If Windows were so easy to use, we wouldn't need a tech support department, let alone an unofficial one (which would be me, since my salaried job isn't really supposed to be tech support; I just help out).

[swoll1980]

I tried to migrate my in-laws to a Mac Mini and it didn't work with their Canon printer (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/macs-are-just-computers-not-magic/) (which had worked fine in Windows). So are you then saying that Mac OS X isn't easy to use?



That's another perfect example of straw man argument :D Their choices don't include mac osx. When they buy their netbook they can get Linux, or Windows. When they buy the Linux one, take it home, and the printer doesn't work, they take it back with a bitter taste in their mouth, buy the Windows version, and their printer works. Being Linux geeks we often don't realise how big, small issues like this are to "myspacers" That's my argument.

[aysiu]

That's another perfect example of straw man argument :D Their choices don't include mac osx. When they buy their netbook they can get Linux, or Windows. When they buy the Linux one, take it home, and the printer doesn't work, they take it back with a bitter taste in their mouth, buy the Windows version, and their printer works. Being Linux geeks we often don't realise how big, small issues like this are to "myspacers" That's my argument.
So if someone takes home a Linux computer and it doesn't work with the printer, that makes it Linux's fault?

But if someone takes home a Mac computer and it doesn't work with the printer, that doesn't make it Mac's fault?

It's an exact apples to apples comparison. How is that a straw man argument?

I'm extending the logic of your conclusion.

You are saying if [fill in the operating system] computer doesn't work with a printer, it's not user-friendly, and the blank there happens to be Linux.

So I'm saying if we fill in the blank with Mac OS X, why isn't Mac considered user-unfriendly?

Why do the choices have to be restricted to netbooks? I'm talking about how user-friendliness is judged, not about whether Apple makes netbooks. If you are judging Linux based on its compatibility with printers, then it doesn't matter if it's a netbook, a desktop, a laptop, or a tablet.

[swoll1980]

So if someone takes home a Linux computer and it doesn't work with the printer, that makes it Linux's fault?

But if someone takes home a Mac computer and it doesn't work with the printer, that doesn't make it Mac's fault?

It's an exact apples to apples comparison. How is that a straw man argument?

Because I never made the argument that neither of them weren't ready for anything. I never said it was Linux's fault, or Macs fault that peoples printer doesn't work when they get it home, I'm just stating a fact that I know of 2 people myself that returned Linux netbooks because of printer incompatibility, and that this printer incompatibility seems to be a major issue with people who are not tech minded.

[aysiu]

Because I never made the argument that neither of them weren't ready for anything. I never said it was Linux's fault, or Macs fault that peoples printer doesn't work when they get it home, I'm just stating a fact that I know of 2 people myself that returned Linux netbooks because of printer incompatibility, and that this printer incompatibility seems to be a major issue with people who are not tech minded.
And, yes, in isolation, I think your point stands as is, but you responded to this quoted text
I've noticed any time someone says "Let's face it. Windows is easier to use," they never have any real evidence to back it up. I laughed when the author said you had to compile applications. What is this--1999? So presumably you were responding to what I said (otherwise, why quote it?), and you certainly weren't agreeing with me. It's implied that your response is meant to be evidence that Windows is easier. If that's not what you meant, perhaps you should edit your post to not include a quotation of my post.

[swoll1980]

And, yes, in isolation, I think your point stands as is, but you responded to this quoted text So presumably you were responding to what I said (otherwise, why quote it?), and you certainly weren't agreeing with me. It's implied that your response is meant to be evidence that Windows is easier. If that's not what you meant, perhaps you should edit your post to not include a quotation of my post.

Sorry I forgot your not a mind reader. Not that this is is actual evidence that Windows is easier to use, because I know that that isn't true, but to the state of mind of the users that return these Linux net books. "My printer works with Windows their for it is easier to use" I could have installed a virtual post script printer, and saved them years of aggravation, but the "myspacer" doesn't see it that way. I'm sure I'll repairing it several times in the next couple years.

[saulgoode]

It says 90% of all netbooks are windows. Inferring that the other 10% is linux, it is a very a large portion compared to linux's current share of the desktop market. It's netbook share is the as Apple's current market share on desktops. Small steps people... small steps.dell recently said 1/3rd, asus sells quite a few linux pcs, this has to be wrong.
My guess is that the NPD Group numbers are based upon retail store sales, ignoring online and phone sales -- this is how last year they evaluated Apple as having a 19% share of the computer market (Dell alone sells five times as many computers as Apple).

The e-mail cited in the article also states that the numbers are for the U.S. market only; whereas in Europe netbooks comprise a larger proportion of computer sales (reportedly 70% of all notebook sales).

I'm willing to accept that Linux-based netbook share is lower than 30%, but I would expect more details about the method employed in obtaining the numbers.

[aysiu]

Sorry I forgot your not a mind reader. Not that this is is actual evidence that Windows is easier to use, because I know that that isn't true, but to the state of mind of the users that return these Linux net books. "My printer works with Windows their for it is easier to use" I could have installed a virtual post script printer, and saved them years of aggravation, but the "myspacer" doesn't see it that way. I'm sure I'll repairing it several times in the next couple years.
I see. Bad assumption on my part. I get what you were saying now. Thanks for the clarification.

[twodogsdad]

So here I am, mostly a newbie who likes to do things the hard way. I started getting into this so I can take old, donated, PIIIs, Dells and clones so far, spruce em up and give them away to families around here that can't afford computers. And Ibex goes on those machines just fine.

For my self assigned homework problems I tried installing Ibex on a g3 imac and on an old Tibook. I have enjoyed working through all the bugs, figuring out how to get the recompiled Thunar packages onto a computer without an internet connection etc. Now I'm gonna play with Jaguar on those things just to see what I can learn next.:P

However. My new Toshiba laptop with the Atheros AR5007 wireless still, after many (I'd say more than 20) hours of study and install and uninstall and reinstall of different driver packages, won't work on some wireless networks. I have to switch to my windows boot to work outside of my house. I'm starting to get used to Vista?!?:o

My point is that even though I am really enjoying playing with Linux and learning in the process, I can clearly see why John Q. just wants the laptop he buys to work at the coffee shop. And I'm even frustrated that after reading a dozen forums and other sites offering solutions to this well known problem I still can't get it to work.

So, as my two year old says... "Twinkle, twinkle, little :popcorn:!" Apropos of nothing...

Thanks, Cal

[Arkenzor]

I'm surprised no-one mentioned that the custom Linuxes prinstalled on netbooks (especially the early ones) look like they were made to look like toys to the average computer user (And some do more than look it: if you want to actually install software on a Xandros Eee you'll have to activate a secret expert mode and add the Debian repos to Synaptic by hand, or compile from source. Wtf? Anyway, what the average Joe will see is that you can't even install software on a Linux Eee).

So the impression the first netbooks gave to the general public was probably something along the lines of "There are low-end toy versions for retards, but if you're ready to add 50$ to the price you can get a real computer with Windows".

Also, the same early netbooks avoided mentioning their Linux heritage at all costs. So what did that all actually have to do with Linux? Hardware vendors took some open-source code, customized it, and distributed it as a kind of custom specialized OS. That's it. It's not like the success of these computers would have benefitted Linux in any way, and their failure doesn't say anything about Linux either.

[aysiu]

I'm surprised no-one mentioned that the custom Linuxes prinstalled on netbooks (especially the early ones) look like they were made to look like toys to the average computer user (And some do more than look it: if you want to actually install software on a Xandros Eee you'll have to activate a secret expert mode and add the Debian repos to Synaptic by hand, or compile from source. Wtf? Anyway, what the average Joe will see is that you can't even install software on a Linux Eee). I agree with you there. I love my Eee PC, but it took me only a couple of days to get sick of Xandros and want to replace it with Ubuntu. The Xandros on the Eee PC is no good. (http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/whats-so-bad-about-the-eee-pc-xandros-anyway/)


So the impression the first netbooks gave to the general public was probably something along the lines of "There are low-end toy versions for retards, but if you're ready to add 50$ to the price you can get a real computer with Windows". I don't really like your use of the word retard (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=spread+the+word+to+end+the+word&btnG=Google+Search), but I agree with your assessment.


Also, the same early netbooks avoided mentioning their Linux heritage at all costs. So what did that all actually have to do with Linux? Hardware vendors took some open-source code, customized it, and distributed it as a kind of custom specialized OS. That's it. It's not like the success of these computers would have benefitted Linux in any way, and their failure doesn't say anything about Linux either. This is where we differ. Linux succeeding on netbooks has a lot of benefits for Linux users: If a friend of yours wants to use Linux instead of saying "Yeah, here's a CD, why don't you configure it," you can just say "Buy this netbook instead of that one." More proven Linux sales (as it's difficult to prove how many Linux installations there are if people do it themselves) means more support from hardware vendors and software companies. That means people in general (even the ones who do choose to install it themselves) will get better options for hardware and an overall smoother experience. Exposure to something different opens people up. If they are using more and more interfaces that aren't Windows, even if they don't know it's "Linux," they'll understand that different can still be good, and that may make them more amenable to a "real" Linux installation on a non-netbook.

[Arkenzor]

I don't really like your use of the word retard, but I agree with your assessment.


Seems I'm still not done learning English. Won't use it again.


I agree all your points except the first, and may have been a bit to eager in claiming that Linux netbooks don't benefit Linux at all.

But - keeping in mind the kind of Linux preinstalls I'm ranting about are the "appliance-like" ones such as the Eee's - I'm definitely not going to suggest buying a Linux netbook to someone wanting to see what Linux looks like.

Of course, the OS on those can still be called "Linux", but it's definitely not on par with the quality and usability standards that the Linux community is trying to uphold.

[aysiu]

Seems I'm still not done learning English. Won't use it again.


I agree all your points except the first, and may have been a bit to eager in claiming that Linux netbooks don't benefit Linux at all.

But - keeping in mind the kind of Linux preinstalls I'm ranting about are the "appliance-like" ones such as the Eee's - I'm definitely not going to suggest buying a Linux netbook to someone wanting to see what Linux looks like.

Of course, the OS on those can still be called "Linux", but it's definitely not on par with the quality and usability standards that the Linux community is trying to uphold.
Point taken.

Based on what I've read about the HP Mini with Ubuntu, though, it seems as if vendors may get that cartoon interfaces aren't the way to go.

I do think for the long-term benefits, Linux users should try as often as possible to buy Linux preinstalled, even if they're just going to install another Linux distro. Executives of OEMs actually keep track of that stuff.

[lykwydchykyn]

For two decade, computer makers have been selling systems with 1 company's OS. Only within the last couple do we see major manufacturers offering an alternative. Is it not conceivable that a good percentage of them are going to get it wrong introducing a new product, and that it doesn't necessarily reflect badly on the OS?

I think there's a lot to be said that the percentage of Linux sales and return rates vary widely between manufacturer. If it was all just a question of how good or bad Linux is, why are we not seeing consistent numbers across the board?

[odda]

All the more reason to support the underdog

[aysiu]

For two decade, computer makers have been selling systems with 1 company's OS. Only within the last couple do we see major manufacturers offering an alternative. Is it not conceivable that a good percentage of them are going to get it wrong introducing a new product, and that it doesn't necessarily reflect badly on the OS?

I think there's a lot to be said that the percentage of Linux sales and return rates vary widely between manufacturer. If it was all just a question of how good or bad Linux is, why are we not seeing consistent numbers across the board?
But you're thinking too logically about it.

Not everyone thinks that way.

Once MSI announced Linux netbooks were returned at four times the rate the Windows were being returned, the anti-Linux trolls didn't really care that Asus said their return rates were roughly equal; and they probably don't care now that Dell says the Ubuntu netbooks are 30% of their netbook sales and have the same return rate as the Windows ones.

[BoyOfDestiny]

...
I do think for the long-term benefits, Linux users should try as often as possible to buy Linux preinstalled, even if they're just going to install another Linux distro. Executives of OEMs actually keep track of that stuff.

I just did this very thing. I ordered an asus eeepc 1000 from newegg, with Xandros, I just hooked it up and installed Ununtu netbook remix jaunty 5 alpha (via usb key, I can do a fresh install in no time, with /home on it's own, so it'd safe for me to play with)

A screencap here.