Ubuntu to Debian - what would I miss?

[Huw]

I'm thinking of moving from Ubuntu to Debian. I'm aware that there is a functionality gap between the two distros; Debian will have some things Ubuntu doesn't, but equally Ubuntu will undoubtedly have stuff that Debian doesn't.

Given that I'm just a desktop user, which means I use my PC mainly for email, surfing, music and so on, what do you think I would miss the most if I made the switch?

[Naiki Muliaina]

When i tried Debian, i didnt realy miss much, except the home forum. Debian doesnt have an official forum, but the main Debian forum isnt as friendly as this one. If you even mention you use Ubuntu there you have every limb removed from your body and emailed back to you piece by piece. Aside from that, not much. I found it fun scrapping up Debian to how i wanted it.

[Sealbhach]

It's a pity to hear that. And then people wonder why Linux isn't more popular. That kind of sniffy attitude has done terrible harm to GNU/Linux over the years. You only need to spend a little time on Digg.com to see the pure hatred some people have for "Linux fanboys".

Ubuntu is reaching new people we're nice and not scary. Long may it continue.


.

[mips]

Why not simply try it and see for yourself. I suspect you would end up with a faster more stable system though.

[Fenris_rising]

Yep you would miss the friendly Forum. I Went only once to the Debian Forum..........I think they are Microsofts secret weapon to frighten the curious away from linux and back to windows. I'm still waiting for my appendages to be returned!!!!!

regards

Fenris

[Naiki Muliaina]

Thought about my post and sounds like im putting people off Debian. Im not going to edit the post, cause, well, its true. Debains purists on that forum utterly suck.

BUT! I would like to encourage people to give Debian a go. Distro hoping is a good thing, regardless of forums, everyone has a distro they prefer, and some folk like things others hate. I cant stand Ubuntu with Gnome, but utterly love Xubuntu! So, the Debians main forum sucks, but go give it a go. You never know, you might find your dream distro there.

[sujoy]

you'd miss absolutely nothing, imo

[gjoellee]

Debian require a root user running, and you constantly have to use the root password and your own. Debian is in fact, pure GNOME+DEB package stuff (such as the installer) (not even firefox included default)

[cmay]

i use debian and have since the last month of debian sarge. i missed nothing but gained a lot when compare to ubuntu. when it is up and runnning that is.
first there is no livecd installewr but the textbased install is pretty easy in debian.
next there is no autosetup of much in debian. and if the things does not work out of box it could maybe (i do not know) be a sligthly more difficult to get working.
you have to manually set up sudo for your user account if you want that.

the respotories for restricted is just as easy as in ubuntu to set up but the printers is always on my system not automatic setup and sound is always muted when i boot first time. all other things work straight outy of the box on all my pc and i could even buy a lousy cheap wireless keyboard and mouse of unknown brand x and plug into debian lenny testing (when it was still testing) and it worked kust like that.

debian is faster and way more stable. debian is also for desktop use adn not just servers but still just on the limit where it is not so attractive for some users and so i say use ubuntu for eyecandy and flash sites and all the things a ordinary casual desktop user would use a computer for and it is more easy. but use debian for a system that is higly stable and customizable and simply just works after taaking a lot more time to make into what one desires of the system. its in the end more personal i think. i am biased ,i love debian.:)

[bakedbeans4life]

It's a pity to hear that. And then people wonder why Linux isn't more popular. That kind of sniffy attitude has done terrible harm to GNU/Linux over the years. You only need to spend a little time on Digg.com to see the pure hatred some people have for "Linux fanboys".

Ubuntu is reaching new people we're nice and not scary. Long may it continue.


.

I've noticed this too. Mention Microsoft and they go into sycophancy mode, mention Linux and they either ignore you or make it their collective mission in life to single you out for a friendly re-education session.

As to Debian, I just downloaded the latest Gnome Live CD. What have you got to lose other than your time.

[mips]

Debian require a root user running, and you constantly have to use the root password and your own.

Debian does not require a root user. You can install sudo in Debian just like any other distro.

http://www.debianhelp.co.uk/sudo.htm
http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/33

I do this in Arch as well.

[InfinityCircuit]

I think that the statements about the hostility of the Debian Forums are overblown. While this was once true, I think there is a lot more tolerance there nowadays.

[Simian Man]

[-] Debian has even older packages than Ubuntu
[-] The Debian community is fairly irritating
[+] It supports the most architectures
[+] It is very stable

Basically it is good for servers and machines with slightly esoteric architectures (Mips, Alpha, Sparc etc.). Not so good for much else.

[Bannor]

debian isn't really much of a switch. the whole philosophy is the same and the compatibility is on pare. Debian is rougher around the edges (I like as much gui as possible). In short Debian is ubuntu with a whole lot less work put into it. If you want to try something truly different go suse or fedora.

[kelvin spratt]

Fenris_rising
What a lot of garbage Debian forums are OK but like most forums they expect you to check the forums and Wiki 1st and ask specific question. What is the point of a 1000 entries for the same question and 999 of them totally wrong.

[InfinityCircuit]

debian isn't really much of a switch. the whole philosophy is the same and the compatibility is on pare. Debian is rougher around the edges (I like as much gui as possible). In short Debian is ubuntu with a whole lot less work put into it. If you want to try something truly different go suse or fedora.

s/less/more/

[shadylookin]

I'm using lenny at the moment and I don't notice any significant differences.

Here are the only differences I noticed

has a root account by default
no support for installing proprietary drivers
uses an older kernel version
firefox is called iceweasle

[kelvin spratt]

NV/ATI graghics drivers are in the Multimedia repro I think or from the vender sites and because you have a root account they are simple to install, there is also the smxi scripts that make Debian one of the most user friendly distros on the planet. you can use the latest Kernels, software Debian supports if you are carefull
Bannor
Ubuntu is Debian with as much bloat as possible added that's fact

[boast]

i find the debian forums more useful. ubuntu forums are too big for problems. your thread goes down to the third page in a matter of minutes. I sometimes get help with my ubuntu setup on debian (although i dont say its ubuntu, lol).

[Cope57]

What would you miss?

If you do not know what you are doing, then Ubuntu is the operating system you should choose over Debian.
Some in the Debian community regard the consequent simplifying increase in use by the non-technical public, as resulting in a great dumbing down in these areas, with the following of "proper" standards (technical and netiquette) declining precipitously.

[kk0sse54]

debian isn't really much of a switch. the whole philosophy is the same and the compatibility is on pare. Debian is rougher around the edges (I like as much gui as possible). In short Debian is ubuntu with a whole lot less work put into it. If you want to try something truly different go suse or fedora.
Ubuntu philosophy != Debian philosohpy

[Fenris_rising]

Kelvin

You had to be there. The ill mannered replies I got where to my mentioning that I was currently using Ubuntu. They further compounded their elitist fury by seizing on my admission that I was new to CLI and was finding the 'syntax' sufficiently different, from Ubuntu, to hamper my 'noob' progress ........This was ridiculed. I always search forums and the web to try to help myself before asking for help. This was only 6 months ago to boot. The Ubuntu, Fluxbuntu, Puppy and Easy Peasy forums all seem to show a more reasonable, relaxed and friendly attitude from the off. Tomorrow I get a new part for my pc so that will be up and running again and with all I have learned on my eeepc I plan to have a play with other distros via dual boot. Ubuntu is to my mind great as an OS and a good beginning if you want to then move on and try other flavours. Even..........Debian :D

regards

Fenris

[init1]

[-] Debian has even older packages than Ubuntu
[-] The Debian community is fairly irritating
[+] It supports the most architectures
[+] It is very stable

Basically it is good for servers and machines with slightly esoteric architectures (Mips, Alpha, Sparc etc.). Not so good for much else.
Debian is great for desktops. Yeah, the software is older, but it's nice having a reliable system.

[pirate_tux]

Debian require a root user running, and you constantly have to use the root password and your own. Debian is in fact, pure GNOME+DEB package stuff (such as the installer) (not even firefox included default)

Not true.
You only need to use de user password.
Didn't you ever heard of something called "sudo" ?

[pirate_tux]

cmay:

Yes, Debian has a Live CD installer, just like Ubuntu.

You can donwload it from here:

http://live.debian.net/

Why people insist on telling lies about Debian?

[Twitch6000]

Debian is great for desktops. Yeah, the software is older, but it's nice having a reliable system.

I disagree If you use Debian unstable that is.

[Orlsend]

Whats debian default browser?

[swoll1980]

Whats debian default browser?

firefox with a different name, Stallmans doing i hear

[Yashiro]

I think that the statements about the hostility of the Debian Forums are overblown.Nope. It's bang on. It's a good distro with sensible developers that is totally ruined by an unfriendly forum community that has gravitated towards it.

[kelvin spratt]

FENRIS RISING
I have used Debian forums in the past as Mandog I am on most forums and to be honest apart from comments about comprehension, which I don't bother with as I'm dyslexic I find them all very helpful. So it really takes me back to hear these stories.

[cmay]

cmay:

Yes, Debian has a Live CD installer, just like Ubuntu.

You can donwload it from here:

http://live.debian.net/

Why people insist on telling lies about Debian?

is this a ivecd installer or just a or livecd ? . i have a livecd already with debian lenny and there is no installer on it like ubuntu. i got it from a link on how to get debian on their homepage. there has been for long time a livecd project unofficial when etch was stable and i also have one of those images. no ubiquity on that either.
not that i would actually use a livecd installer with debian as i like the textbased installer very much but i like to know about what goes on in debian as a distribution.

[Huw]

Well, I have to say thank you very much to all who replied! For some reason I didn't get the requested email notification until just now so I thought my post had been ignored! Also, when I first started the thread I expected a whole slew of "why do you even want to switch?" comments, but not one of you has done that and you have all, instead, simply answered my question and given your opinions. So thanks again!

It seems I have little to lose by giving it a try. I've used Debian in the past, years ago, and found it too much work for simple desktop use. But I've heard it's come on in leaps and bounds since then and I'm excited about the possibilities now. :)


firefox with a different name, Stallmans doing i hear

Actually, I'm pretty sure Debian changed their version of Firefox in response to protests from the Mozilla Foundation. Their licensing rules were at odds with Debian's philosophy IIRC. As far as I'm aware RMS has little to no involvement with Debian, although I could be wrong.

Finally, on the subject of the Debian forum, in my experience the Linux community in general tends to be quite elitist in my experience. Of course you encounter the same thing with proponents of any OS, but Linux seems to be the most badly represented. This forum, however, is a pleasant exception. ;)

[WatchingThePain]

I tried Debian, it's kinda like Ubuntu but with no Desktop effects. What's the advantage over Ubuntu?-I don't have a scooby doo.

[blueturtl]

Is it too late to suggest you might miss the funky brown theme? ;)

[Huw]

Is it too late to suggest you might miss the funky brown theme? ;)

Hehe! I don't know why the brown theme gets bashed, I really like it. And let's face it, most other colours are taken by other distros. ;)

One thing I do like about Debian, from trying it in the past, is the vast range of stunning Debian-themed wallpapers there are! :D

[koenn]

firefox with a different name, Stallmans doing i hear
A compromise between Debians's Free Software quidelines & policy and Mozilla's refusal to let them use the firefox name http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/30/173234&from=rss

Stallman has nothing to do with Debian nor Mozilla. You must have misheard.

[WatchingThePain]

Lol..you have Gimp, it's not hard to make your own Wallpaper.

[lykwydchykyn]

It's worth pointing out, that just because you install Debian doesn't mean you have to stop using these forums. There's a huge population of Arch users here, and that's much more removed from ubuntu than Debian is.

The firefox/iceweasel thing got blown way out of proportion by bloggers and tech journos when it happened. It was just a solution to a licensing conflict. If you look closely you might notice that some distros use an unbranded firefox, and even in ubuntu the branding is packaged seperately so you can remove it if you want to.

[WatchingThePain]

It's true, I am an undercover Fedora user lol.

[ArtF10]

...debian is faster and way more stable...

WHAT??? Explain!!

[cmay]

i use ubuntu intrepid ibex on my new laptop just to make sure they wont ban me :icon_frown:
actually i use more than one distro for the reason i have a media-center an office and sound recording studio and i use different computers and distros for that.

i still use debian on my 12 year old computer as its stable and i wont part with some pc if it still works.


i have also a pair of older computers i have for betatesting distributions but when i do not use them for that i use debian in them since debian is a good stable and not so hardware demanding distribution for older pc than ubuntu is. its one good reason for me to use debian .

[Skripka]

It's worth pointing out, that just because you install Debian doesn't mean you have to stop using these forums. There's a huge population of Arch users here, and that's much more removed from ubuntu than Debian is.

Yep. These forums here are far more active and helpful than distro specific forums are, that I have seen. These forums are so active and such a resource that the servers cannot keep up-which is a good sign...although not a good thing.

With OOST goney-some things are best posted on distro specific boards for help and/or notification to devs-but with Debian and Ubuntu being so close-there's no reason to run away just because you're on a *slightly* different OS.

Know that if you DON'T use a flavor of Ubuntu, your user will not show what distro you are using, ie. "Kubuntu Intrepid Ibex" on the left below your avatar. :(

[koenn]

WHAT??? Explain!!

stable:
# resistant to change of position or condition "a stable ladder"; "a stable peace"; "a stable relationship"; "stable prices"
# firm and dependable; subject to little fluctuation "the economy is stable"

Ubuntu changes every 6 months. Debian doesn't. Therefore, Debian is more stable than Ubuntu.

An other measure would be their stand on changes inside a release. In a Debian Stable Release, the only changes are security fixes.
I don't know how Ubuntu does it, but given that the next release is always only 6 months away, I suppose most (non-secutrity fix) updates/upgrades are pushed forward to the next release, so that would be pretty much the same approach as Debian.

[WatchingThePain]

Does anyone know what all this sid and etch business is?

[cmay]

Does anyone know what all this sid and etch business is?
the names are from a movie. i found an explanation somewhere on their pretty big homepage. i cant find it again.

[koenn]

Does anyone know what all this sid and etch business is?


the names are from a movie. i found an explanation somewhere on their pretty big homepage. i cant find it again.

http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives

[WatchingThePain]

TY Koenn,

So etch is the current stable distribution and lenny is the current testing distribution :guitar:.

[lykwydchykyn]

TY Koenn,

So etch is the current stable distribution and lenny is the current testing distribution :guitar:.

Lenny was just released to stable in the last couple weeks. Hence all the sudden interest in Debian.

current testing is squeeze.

[some_random_noob]

Hi guys, I just got Lenny working :D

Took me ages to find out what was wrong with my wireless bridge connection, and then I simply added my ISPs DNS servers to my resolv.conf file and it worked. Luckily I have a basic computer and that was the only problem!

I'm really happy now. I'm using Gnome but it's almost as fast as Xubuntu! Soooooo much less bloat - if I tried the latest Ubuntu on my computer it would die, but not with Debian. But then there's crappy device support and some stuff cut out. Here's some things I've noticed so far:

* Less screen savers.
* Shutdown button is under the system tab.
* No GIMP :(
* Comes with Iceweasel AND Epiphany.

Wow... time for a break I think...

[WatchingThePain]

Does that mean it has a newer Kernel as well or is that irrelevant?.

[InfinityCircuit]

Kelvin

You had to be there. The ill mannered replies I got where to my mentioning that I was currently using Ubuntu. They further compounded their elitist fury by seizing on my admission that I was new to CLI and was finding the 'syntax' sufficiently different, from Ubuntu, to hamper my 'noob' progress ........This was ridiculed. I always search forums and the web to try to help myself before asking for help. This was only 6 months ago to boot. The Ubuntu, Fluxbuntu, Puppy and Easy Peasy forums all seem to show a more reasonable, relaxed and friendly attitude from the off. Tomorrow I get a new part for my pc so that will be up and running again and with all I have learned on my eeepc I plan to have a play with other distros via dual boot. Ubuntu is to my mind great as an OS and a good beginning if you want to then move on and try other flavours. Even..........Debian :D

regards

Fenris

Really, don't spread FUD. I remember this.

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=27582

The forum members were quite helpful. EMD went through the trouble of posting two links to tutorials on using the command line, and others provided their insight. Then, you suddenly posted that you had given up on Debian.

This led to one angry comment in the other thread by EMD, because he had spent so much time pointing you to useful guides, which you responded to with a massive flame, which many other people responded to in kind. You then deleted the flame from your own post by editing it. While it was not the best day for the Debian Forums, it was attributable to your attitude in giving up on Debian for no apparent reason other than you "couldn't be bothered" to learn and your decision to post a big flame that you promptly deleted, removing the evidence.

I have no interest in starting a war over your treatment on the Debian Forums but I find your appraisal of the situation to be one-sided.

[fissionmailed]

I run kubuntu and Debian Lenny on my laptop. I never use kubuntu on it. Of course I did a base install of Debian and went from there. IMO Debian has more packages, it's more stable and it has a TON of how-to sites/pages. Once ext4 becomes the norm for Debian I'm going to reformat my HD on my desktop and install Debian.

[bakedbeans4life]

I look on the whole Debian Ubuntu relationship as an analogy to house building (indulge me, I doubt I am the first to do this).

Debian laid the foundations then built the house. They got their own team of decorators in to add a bit of substance to the initial design. Now an estate agent comes along with others (Ubuntu, this is many other distros too) that like the design buts wish to add their own touches.

All of a sudden you have an extension here and a bay-window there, I'm quite sure we all know where this is leading.

Without Debian, Ubuntu would not exist. Without Ubuntu, Debian would not be as popular as it is. Would you have even known of Debian in the mainstream without Ubuntu? They both need each other, and they both feed each other.

It seems a pity that one group seems at odds with the other.

[Yashiro]

Once ext4 becomes the norm for Debian I'm going to reformat my HD on my desktop and install Debian.
About 2 years time then.

[jml]

Have been using Debian and Ubuntu for many years. Am satified with both. As for the differences.

Debian is a rolling distro. There are four branches. Stable (currently Lenny), Testing, Unstable (always called SID,) and Experimental. Debian has no fixed release schedule. The developers say it will be released when it is ready. A release is tested exhaustively before it is released as stable. Lenny took nearly two years to be released. This means that stable releases often do not have bleeding edge versions of common apps. But it also means that the installation is rock solid, with minimal updates. The only updates allowed in stable are usually security updates and the rare major bug fix.

Debian supports about 11 different computer architectures. The PowerPC along with others are officially supported. This is one of the reasons for the long developement cycles.

Like Ubuntu, Debian does not officially support proprietary/closed source apps or codecs. But just as Ubuntu has the medibuntu repository, Debian has Debian-Multimedia repository for all those proprietary apps and codecs many want/need to use.

I personally find Debian a bit snappier than Ubuntu, but I like them both.

As for the Debian User Forum, I would say that if a person tries to research the question with the forum's search function first, and post a question if unsuccessful in finding an answer, a person will be well recieved.

If a person knows his or her way around Linux, one could run Debian testing or the unstable branch. One will have more cutting edge applications, however, the chance for breakage is higher. I have been using Linux since 1999, I am no expert, but Debian stable has been more than adequate for my needs, and I like the fact that once it is set up, it is relatively low maintenance.

Joe

[fissionmailed]

About 2 years time then.

I never said for stable. I just want ext4 to become more stable before using it myself.

[InfinityCircuit]

I never said for stable. I just want ext4 to become more stable before using it myself.

It won't be in d-i though until the next stable, so you will have to install manually via bootstrapping.

[Twitch6000]

I am wanting to try debian again myself and well I know stable has a old kernel that my laptop wouldn't be supported on,but I know unstable would work fine.

So how would I go about downloading or finding SID?

Or better yet does testing come with a later kernel?

[Yashiro]

You just change your sources.list to point at sid instead of lenny.

Or if it's for a kernel test just install lenny and download/build a newer kernel package.

[em4r1z]

You'll miss the constant re-installations.

In Debian, every package makes a long way from its submission (to the unstable branches) to its acceptance as a part of the system. Because of the development procedures, the packages included in Debian are older than mainstream (but you can use Testing -the unstable branch that's closest to the stable ones- and you'll get an evolving system with the latest features.)
The many requirements that the packages needed to meet before moving from one branch to another ensures that Debian is stable upon release.

Ubuntu (LTS and normal versions) is a customized snapshot of Debian unstable branches without the phasing. The fact that its developers commit to unstable versions of packages for two or five years doesn't make them stable. It might be stable during its lifespan but it's not stable when it's released.

For everyday use, one system will use less resources than the other but you won't notice usability differences, it's in the core things that stability matters. Upgrade both systems and you'll see.

[mips]

So how would I go about downloading or finding SID?


You can't, you have to upgrade to it from stable or testing.

Testing resides here, http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/

http://wooledge.org/~greg/sidfaq.html
http://members.cox.net/tonyt/d830/

[snowpine]

I am wanting to try debian again myself and well I know stable has a old kernel that my laptop wouldn't be supported on,but I know unstable would work fine.

So how would I go about downloading or finding SID?

Or better yet does testing come with a later kernel?

Mips is correct, however, another option is sidux: http://sidux.com/

Sidux is a separate project that attempts to "stabilize" Debian Sid for desktop users. I've found that it has great hardware support for laptops, wireless cards, etc. The "release notes" have very clear instructions for various non-free hardware needs.

[jml]

mips is not entirely correct. One can download a cd image of the weekly build of Debian Testing from this site:

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/

After your test system is installed and configured to your liking, one can then edit the sources.list to point to SID and upgrade to SID.

Joe

[kimda]

I am running Debian exclusively on all my servers and its rock solid. Used to run Debian on my desktop as well, but switched to Ubuntu on the desktop after having lots of problems with running Gnome. Mind you I was running unstable back then and its a long time ago (couple of years). I do not think you would be missing a lot since in a lot of ways Ubuntu is similar to Debian and even based on Debian. Why don't you give it a try in a virtualmachine like virtualbox or vmware?

[mips]

mips is not entirely correct. One can download a cd image of the weekly build of Debian Testing from this site:

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/weekly-builds/

After your test system is installed and configured to your liking, one can then edit the sources.list to point to SID and upgrade to SID.

Joe

Lol, look at my thread again. You said everything I said but I'm not entirely correct, very confusing.

I pointed him to testing (see the first link I provided) and told him he has to upgrade to sid and gave him two other links with info?

[jml]

Sorry about that. I must have misread your post.

[pol666]

I'm thinking of moving from Ubuntu to Debian. I'm aware that there is a functionality gap between the two distros; Debian will have some things Ubuntu doesn't, but equally Ubuntu will undoubtedly have stuff that Debian doesn't.

Given that I'm just a desktop user, which means I use my PC mainly for email, surfing, music and so on, what do you think I would miss the most if I made the switch?

debian It's too faster, and much configurable although the instalation it's slowly.

[mips]

Sorry about that. I must have misread your post.

No problem, just found it funny.