NEWS: Obama Wants Open Source IT Solutions for US [Archive]

ubuntu27

March 1st, 2009, 07:23 AM

Obama Wants Open Source IT Solutions for US (http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/01/22/obama-wants-open-source-it-solutions-for-us/id=1733/)

One of the first things the Obama Administration is interested in doing is exploring how the United States government can use open source software rather than rely on proprietary software that is viewed as costing to much money. So at a time when corporations are cutting jobs left and right and our economy is in jeopardy, one of the first priorities of President Obama is to determine whether it is feasible to stop relying on proprietary software bought from companies like Microsoft, Oracle and IBM.

Read the rest at: http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/01/22/obama-wants-open-source-it-solutions-for-us/id=1733/

NOTE: I don't agree in many points about what the author is stating. He seems to be not familiar enough with Open Source and Free Software.
I just wanted to post this article so people could be aware that president Barack Hussein Obama is interested in Open Source.

I have spotted several grammatical and orthographic mistakes in his article while reading. :lolflag:

thegreatone

March 1st, 2009, 07:27 AM

Obama Wants Open Source IT Solutions for US (http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/01/22/obama-wants-open-source-it-solutions-for-us/id=1733/)

Read the rest at: http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/01/22/obama-wants-open-source-it-solutions-for-us/id=1733/

NOTE: I don't agree in many points about what the author is stating. He seems to be not familiar enough with Open Source and Free Software.
I just wanted to post this article so people could be aware that president Barack Hussein Obama is interested in Open Source.

I have spotted several grammatical and orthographic mistakes in his article while reading. :lolflag:Well I admit I didn't read the article but I am all for open source. It can be made secure and there is a lot of community support.

Swermed

March 1st, 2009, 07:28 AM

It sounds great.But i am chinese,
Open source, there is still a long way to go,in china

NintendoTogepi

March 1st, 2009, 08:44 AM

If Obama really does switch to a form of Linux (Govbuntu?), that would mean he is truly wonderful :D

Onoskelis

March 1st, 2009, 09:39 AM

svbh07

March 1st, 2009, 09:49 AM

davidryder

March 1st, 2009, 09:55 AM

You intentional use of Obama's middle name is laughable. In 8 years of Bush's administration I have never heard anyone refer to him using his middle name. No need to explain, I have enough hard-right friends to understand the implication ;)

On the point of the article, why is anyone arguing that open-source software is a bad thing on an open-source community forum? I thought we wanted open-source to move forward :confused:

Onoskelis

March 1st, 2009, 10:09 AM

Non-American. Huh. Last I checked, Dell and just about every other Linux PC seller was from America. Then, there's the support they would most likely buy, be it from Canonical, Novell, or Red Hat. I'm not entirely sure if the post I'm referencing is serious or not.

I think it's a good idea. Think about how much less information about residents would be stolen if Windows weren't found anywhere.

Canonical is a foreign company.

Obama should be showing support for America's economy by using American hardware and software.

He should not be purposefully sabotaging American IT jobs just to save a few "bucks".

k2t0f12d

March 1st, 2009, 10:17 AM

America has at least equal claim to the free software heritage as any other country. UNIX was developed by AT&T and The University of California at Berkeley. Stallman started GNU here. Red Hat, the world's largest free software based corporation started here. Washington state has no right to cry poor and expect everyone's tax dollars to support their industry when a perfectly acceptable and superior alternative exists.

I have to come from Missouri on this one, though.

mips

March 1st, 2009, 10:46 AM

Canonical is a foreign company.

Obama should be showing support for America's economy by using American hardware and software.

He should not be purposefully sabotaging American IT jobs just to save a few "bucks".

I though you guys were against giving anyone "a free ride"? Except corporations, they seem to be getting free rides all the time. The very reason your economy is up the creek without a panel is because of your big corporations lobbying your politicians to scrap regulations which in turn means they can do as they wish in the quest to enrich themselves at the expense of the general populous etc. But this probaly sounds like communist/socialist drivel to you, just like oss.

I don't see oss doing your economy any harm or stifling innovations by means of patenting any meaningless crap little software button. USA is one of the very few countries where software patents exists.

You are doing this harm to yourselfs, stop blaming it on other things.

As for Canonical being a foreign company, how about all countries outside the USA blacklist US based corporations as a secondary choice to local companies. Do you have any frigging idea what this will do to your economy? You don't really produce stuff anymore, you have a trade/budget deficits and national debt to the moon and back, I say bring it on as there will be a backlash towards US industries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

What is "American" hardware & software anyway? There is no such thing, you live in a global village. The company might be american but it does not mean the product is manufactured in america or by people from the US.

thegreatone

March 1st, 2009, 11:00 AM

If Obama really does switch to a form of Linux (Govbuntu?), that would mean he is truly wonderful :D"govbuntu" hahahaha

davidryder

March 1st, 2009, 11:00 AM

http://www.redhat.com/about/contact/ww/americas/raleigh.html

thegreatone

March 1st, 2009, 11:02 AM

This is absolutely terrible news.

He would use non-American software instead of supporting domestic companies like Microsoft that bring income to thousands of American families.

This is a huge slap in the face for Washington state, and the rest of the country.All those "American" companies you refer to like "Microshaft" outsource most everything now to India and China. On the contrary many, many people like me use open source and work with it right here in American data centers.

mintochris

March 1st, 2009, 01:18 PM

The money saved by not buying microsoft/closed-source would no doubt be used/spent with some other american company. If they don't spend it on one thing they'll always find something else!

cdekter

March 1st, 2009, 01:40 PM

*snip*

Awesome post! +10000000

Ms_Angel_D

March 1st, 2009, 02:00 PM

Washington state has no right to cry poor and expect everyone's tax dollars to support their industry when a perfectly acceptable and superior alternative exists.

I have to come from Missouri on this one, though.

First off I'm from Washington and up until me I don't see anybody saying they are from here and I definitly don't see anyone from here whining about MS losing money. MS losing jobs is in no way going to hurt this states economy, They aren't the only company in this state.

Besides Microsoft We have:

Boeing
Amazon.com
Nintendo of America
Valve Corporation
Starbucks (of course)
Weyerhaeuser
Costco
Nordstrom
American Seafoods Group
Alaskan Airlines
Just to name a few

Not to mention this state has the most millionaires per capita then any other state in the country, as well as Washington being one of the leading agricultural states.

Microsoft isn't even our top employer in this state. I mean hell do you people think we're surrounded by Big MS windows logo's out here, and stamp windows logo's on our kids when they are born?

So before you go saying that Washington is whining about anything please get the facts first, and make sure that there is actually somebody whining.

swoll1980

March 1st, 2009, 02:14 PM

He should not be purposefully sabotaging American IT jobs just to save a few "bucks".

There would still be IT jobs they just wouldn't be microsoft ones. Since when has a Government been forced to use over priced inferior product when a cheaper superior one is readily available. Microsoft can't complain about the government not buying their product, anymore than my brother can complain about the government not using his roofing company.Wouldn't some sort of tie to MS be essentially a no bid contract?

Northsider

March 1st, 2009, 03:03 PM

Skripka

March 1st, 2009, 03:06 PM

You intentional use of Obama's middle name is laughable.

Yea. Whenever I see that, I don't take whomever said it seriously.

Polygon

March 1st, 2009, 03:07 PM

This is absolutely terrible news.

He would use non-American software instead of supporting domestic companies like Microsoft that bring income to thousands of American families.

This is a huge slap in the face for Washington state, and the rest of the country.

so the goverment should use more expensive, inferior products just so we keep business in the us? That logic is flawed. The whole point is that you don't have to pay for operating system licenses......saving as the article said about $400 billion. thats a TON of money! And not to mention that linux and most open software is a collaborative effort from people around the world, including the US.

also, there actually has to be a computer to PUT the os on.....its not like dell/gateway/hp has magically disappeared.

zekopeko

March 1st, 2009, 03:32 PM

This is absolutely terrible news.

He would use non-American software instead of supporting domestic companies like Microsoft that bring income to thousands of American families.

This is a huge slap in the face for Washington state, and the rest of the country.

hahahahahaha!!!! this made me laugh so hard. do you even understand that the "bucks" he's gonna save with this means either less taxes (less likely) or more funding for other vital project (gov. sponsored).
Government money comes from your pocket so it would be in your interest that government uses less costly solutions.
You Americans always proclaim how everything should be free market based and then when the free market decides that a "foreign" product is better then the "American" you yell from the top of your lungs how this it's not US based.
That's called protectionism and is generally frowned upon since it's the opposite of free market.
The only time countries (should) use protectionism is when you have a developing domestic economy branch that needs protection from foreign products since it can't compete with them on equal footing. Once they can compete you lift the taxes on those foreign products and let free market do it's thing.

terry_gardener

March 1st, 2009, 04:14 PM

i have just read that uk government are doing the same looking into opensource software.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7910110.stm

miegiel

March 1st, 2009, 04:18 PM

FOSS will only save money if the total costs (hardware, OS, applications, development of in house applications, support, maintenance, etc.) are less than is being spent in total on what ever IT solution is used right now.

FOSS is not free beer :rolleyes:

That said, an article from ipwatchdog.com shouldn't be taken to seriously (you know what the IP stands for right?). I'm guessing microsoft is more open minded to FOSS then they are.

Since it's not appropriate to comment on someones appearance, I won't say that it looks like the author ... (I really can't, it's deleted :twisted:).

edit:
I found something more intresting in "Yes, We Can Make the Stimulus More Stimulating" by Dean Baker (http://www.truthout.org/011209R)

6) Funding for the Development of Open Software

In the same vein, the government can spend $2 billion a year to develop open source software. This money can be used to further develop and simplify open source operating systems such as Linux, as well other forms of free software. The payoffs from this spending would be enormous. Imagine that every computer buyer in the world would be able to get a computer for which the operating system was free, as was almost all the software that they would ever use.

This would surely save consumers an average of at least $200 per computer. With sales at close to 20 million a year, the savings in the United States alone could easily exceed the cost of supporting software development. Adding in the benefits (and presumably some contributions) from the rest of the world, we will be way ahead by going the route of publicly funded open software open software. The cost would be $2 billion a year.

In case you're wondering who he is (from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Baker)):

Basing himself on house-price data-sets produced by the US government and Yale economist Robert Shiller, Baker was the first economist to point out the bubble in the US housing market back in 2002, and indeed one of the only economists to spot it.

Pogeymanz

March 1st, 2009, 05:00 PM

I do understand the financial concern.

"If Obama chooses OSS (probably not free as in beer as they will surely buy Red Hat support) then Microsoft will make less money, thus America makes less money."

But this is just the government. Why would D.C. giving Microsoft money make the country richer? And just because the government will use OSS, does not mean the whole country/world will. Microsoft will be fine (unfortunately).

And frankly, that's besides the point, IMO. If Microsoft made a better, more cost-effective product, then it would be the better choice.

The only reason I'm even unhappy with Microsoft is because they're a monopoly which doesn't allow the better product to have a chance in the market. But that's another story...

Pogeymanz

March 1st, 2009, 05:05 PM

Yea. Whenever I see that, I don't take whomever said it seriously.

I don't think that's really safe to do... It is his actual middle name and it's totally possible that the person saying it doesn't mean any implication.

On a related note, before the election, on The Daily Show they had a clip of some old woman saying "I don't want anymore of this "Hussein" stuff around!"

Skripka

March 1st, 2009, 05:19 PM

I don't think that's really safe to do... It is his actual middle name and it's totally possible that the person saying it doesn't mean any implication.

On a related note, before the election, on The Daily Show they had a clip of some old woman saying "I don't want anymore of this "Hussein" stuff around!"

IME, anyone on an internet forum who refers to Obama in such a manner is looking to troll, there's no reason to type out his full name on a bulletin board when everyone knows who he is-unless one is looking to troll. I have yet to see a serious poster worth taking seriously who uses "Barack Hussein Obama" in a normal post

wolfen69

March 1st, 2009, 05:40 PM

Canonical is a foreign company.

Obama should be showing support for America's economy by using American hardware and software.

He should not be purposefully sabotaging American IT jobs just to save a few "bucks".

you obviously know nothing about IT. those jobs will still be there regardless of what software is being used. there is still a need for support and technical know-how.

svbh07

March 1st, 2009, 05:42 PM

But this is just the government. Why would D.C. giving Microsoft money make the country richer?

Hey, they've done it before. The auto makers of my country make a clearly inferior product but were bailed out by the government. The banking system is inferior to certain others. They've been bailed out, too. Why not give everyone else a shot at free government money?

There should be a sarcasm tag. Someone might think the last sentence was serious.

perlluver

March 1st, 2009, 05:45 PM

I would be extremely happy to see the President using more open source. His website was released under the creative commons, this would be great news. If Microsoft goes down from all this all the better. Sick and tired of Microsoft and there stupid patents. Good riddance.

tubezninja

March 1st, 2009, 06:08 PM

This is absolutely terrible news.

He would use non-American software instead of supporting domestic companies like Microsoft that bring income to thousands of American families.

You're assuming that the government has actually paid much of anything significant to Microsoft since Windows XP. One of the biggest tech articles that came out of the White House shortly after Obama was sworn in was how antiquated the IT infrastructure is, and how frustrated his administration and aides were with what was available.

I don't think Microsoft is going to notice very much if parts of the government switch to FOSS.

Personally, I'd like to see some Macs in the White House, but that's just me. And if you're really that worried about American Jobs and patriotism, where were you when Obama was fighting hard to keep his Blackberry, a Canadian product? Why not a Palm, or Windows Media Device, or iPhone?

This is a huge slap in the face for Washington state, and the rest of the country.

Oh I get it, FOSS is UnAmerican. :-({|=

You intentional use of Obama's middle name is laughable. In 8 years of Bush's administration I have never heard anyone refer to him using his middle name. No need to explain, I have enough hard-right friends to understand the implication ;)

What implication? it's his name. And I referred to our previous president by his middle name all the time: "Dubyah." :D

I'm proud to have Barack Hussein Obama as my president. His middle name doesn't bother me, regardless of who says it. Does it bother you?

ubuntu27

March 1st, 2009, 06:38 PM

You intentional use of Obama's middle name is laughable. In 8 years of Bush's administration I have never heard anyone refer to him using his middle name. No need to explain, I have enough hard-right friends to understand the implication ;)

Yea. Whenever I see that, I don't take whomever said it seriously.

Interesting reaction to my post.
I always use everyone full name when talking about them.
I say Geroge W. Bush or George Walker Bush.

I have a problem with Obama's name however; Whenever I read the news or anything about him, his middle name is always censored. I don't like any kind of censorships. There is no need to hide that he is "Hussein"

And you know, from talking to different people I have come to a sad realization. Many people doesn't know that Obama's middle name or second name is Hussein!

If people does not want to pronounce or write his complete name, at least they should abbreviate like in the case of Bush (George W. Bush). Why not write Barack H. Obama?

When I talk about Bill Gates, I refer to him as William Henry Gates III, for that is his real name.

I don't think that's really safe to do... It is his actual middle name and it's totally possible that the person saying it doesn't mean any implication.

Thank you.

On a related note, before the election, on The Daily Show they had a clip of some old woman saying "I don't want anymore of this "Hussein" stuff around!"

That must be the reason why they hide our president's middle name.
People should already getting used to his name.

What implication? it's his name. And I referred to our previous president by his middle name all the time: "Dubyah." :D

I'm proud to have Barack Hussein Obama as my president. His middle name doesn't bother me, regardless of who says it. Does it bother you?

Looks like I am not the only one who says the complete name of an individual.
As for your question. The name Hussein does not bother me. It is part of US President identity, it is his name.

IME, anyone on an internet forum who refers to Obama in such a manner is looking to troll, there's no reason to type out his full name on a bulletin board when everyone knows who he is-unless one is looking to troll. I have yet to see a serious poster worth taking seriously who uses "Barack Hussein Obama" in a normal post

I have been participating in this forum for 4 years. And I have never "trolled".
I just want people to remember or learn if they were not aware of, that he has a middle name.
Like I said above, there is actually people who never knew that he is Barack Hussein Obama. Every where you look, it is just "Barack Obama".

And besides, I am used to write individuals complete name. It is my preference to do that.

savantelite

March 1st, 2009, 07:09 PM

Spending money on opensource means more jobs for us. Your going to need plenty of eyeballs to take care of all that goverment code. So that means more jobs at the ground level, where we are. And less money at the top level, where the bailout billionairs are:)

mips

March 1st, 2009, 07:42 PM

mips

March 1st, 2009, 07:45 PM

Awesome post! +10000000

Thanks, I'm nevously checking my inbox for infractions :biggrin:

Edit: Could we please leave the issue of Baracks second name out of this as it involves political propaganda which is not related to the FOSS issues at hand and will probaly end up getting a good thread locked.

miegiel

March 1st, 2009, 11:17 PM

Edit: Could we please leave the issue of Baracks second name out of this as it involves political propaganda which is not related to the FOSS issues at hand and will probaly end up getting a good thread locked.

I'm stingy :shrug: +1

Onoskelis

March 1st, 2009, 11:27 PM

It's funny how the left wingers here are getting upset about Obama's middle name.

Why should he be ashamed of it? Deniers are the true racists.

MikeTheC

March 2nd, 2009, 12:04 AM

Onoskelis

March 2nd, 2009, 12:30 AM

Without regard to the individual currently serving as President of the United States, I am glad to hear of the initiative to green-light F/OSS for government use. Amongst other things, it gets the Federal Government some independence and maneuvering room vis a vis a convicted position-abusing monopoly (as opposed to a monopoly which is non-abusive of its status). I like that. I like that a lot.

As for it "taking food out of Americans' mouths"... There are days I'm actually ashamed to be a fellow member of UbuntuForums. Of all the short-sighted, closed-minded stupidity.

There may still be American support to manage and administor all the open source software and equipment, but what about all the hard working American software programmers and designers?

This is the equivalent of a president suddenly saying that he wants to build 200 new bridges, but he's going to buy all the material from China. It's self damaging.

MikeTheC

March 2nd, 2009, 12:40 AM

There may still be American support to manage and administor all the open source software and equipment, but what about all the hard working American software programmers and designers?

This is the equivalent of a president suddenly saying that he wants to build 200 new bridges, but he's going to buy all the material from China. It's self damaging.

Alright, I said this kind of view is short-sighted, and now I'm going to prove it.

There is nothing to stop someone from writing a commercial (and therefore, ostensibly "closed-source") application for Linux. If the U.S. Government gets behind turning F/OSS into a serious, competitive OS platform standard, then this should act as a means of clearing the decks and creating a lot of incentive for programmers to write for the Linux environment instead of (or perhaps in addition to) the Win32 and Aqua/Cocoa environments.

I mean, you don't honestly think there is no money to be made from apps written to work in Linux, do you?

Besides, the classic model for F/OSS is the app is free, but you pay for support. Look at Canonical, or RedHat, or any of a number of other business entities who's primary business is open-source. Also, take a look at all the development and investment being made right now by major corporations all over the world. Look at all that and tell me you don't think individual human beings who write software aren't making money being employed or sub-contracted by these companies to do that work.

kikoman

March 2nd, 2009, 02:01 AM

Its the licensing cost that hurts, not the jobs or software.

ivaarsen

March 2nd, 2009, 02:06 AM

If people does not want to pronounce or write his complete name, at least they should abbreviate like in the case of Bush (George W. Bush). Why not write Barack H. Obama?

Bad example. You forget that our previous president wasn't the first 'George Bush.'

Grant A.

March 2nd, 2009, 02:29 AM

Its the licensing cost that hurts, not the jobs or software.

Not just that, but it's imperative that the computer system of any government is secure and safe. Windows has so many security holes that it's a wonder that the U.S. government's servers are still here.

izizzle

March 2nd, 2009, 02:36 AM

This is absolutely terrible news.

He would use non-American software instead of supporting domestic companies like Microsoft that bring income to thousands of American families.

This is a huge slap in the face for Washington state, and the rest of the country.

Let's pardon Onoskelis for his lack of undertsanding of Open-Source software. You need to understand that Americans pay WAYYY more money to BUY Micosoft products that the guys who WORK for Microsoft actually get paid - keeping a ratio of course. In other words, it's just not worth it.

Transien

March 2nd, 2009, 02:44 AM

You Americans always proclaim how everything should be free market based and then when the free market decides that a "foreign" product is better then the "American" you yell from the top of your lungs how this it's not US based.

I understand and appreciate your argument, and it is logically sound, but please do not lump all of us together as "You Americans." Despite what you see on television about us, we are not all bigots and xenophobes.

This is absolutely terrible news.

He would use non-American software instead of supporting domestic companies like Microsoft that bring income to thousands of American families.

This is a huge slap in the face for Washington state, and the rest of the country.

Onoskelis, if you are so against the use of OSS, then why in the world are you using Linux? Why don't you support the U.S. Economy and buy Microsoft?

It is because Linux is a superior product, of course.

Point.

Set.

Match.

Onoskelis

March 2nd, 2009, 02:46 AM

I understand and appreciate your argument, and it is logically sound, but please do not lump all of us together as "You Americans." Despite what you see on television about us, we are not all bigots and xenophobes.

Onoskelis, if you are so against the use of OSS, then why in the world are you using Linux? Why don't you support the U.S. Economy and buy Microsoft?

It is because Linux is a superior product, of course.

Point.

Set.

Match.

I use both actually, and I stand by my statement that open source software should belong to American businesses only, and not the government.

Using Canonical (a South African company) is a security risk.

Grant A.

March 2nd, 2009, 02:52 AM

I use both actually, and I stand by my statement that open source software should belong to American businesses only, and not the government.

Using Canonical (a South African company) is a security risk.

Ubuntu originated on the Isle of Man in the United Kingdom, the United States' second most important ally.

blastus

March 2nd, 2009, 03:11 AM

The issue is paying an arm and a leg for software that is considered a COMMODITY. Companies that market commodity-like software as innovative and sell it at ridiculous prices do not have a tenable business--and certainly not one that a government should support.

This is where open source wins because it provides the building blocks that companies can use to provide software solutions (proprietary and open source) that are truly innovative and what customers need/want. OPEN SOURCE IS THE GREEN SOFTWARE INDUSTRY. :P

LookTJ

March 2nd, 2009, 03:18 AM

I use both actually, and I stand by my statement that open source software should belong to American businesses only, and not the government.

Using Canonical (a South African company) is a security risk.

"Founded in late 2004, Canonical Ltd is a company headquartered in Europe with over 200 employees working in 23 countries (and counting). Canonical is the commercial sponsor of Ubuntu project."

http://www.canonical.com/aboutus

:)

Redache

March 2nd, 2009, 03:31 AM

Using Canonical (a South African company) is a security risk.

How is it a Security Risk?. Is it due to it being from a country that isn't America?, I'm sorry to burst your bubble but that's one of the most rediculous things I've ever heard. Do you think that Mark Shuttleworth is going to wake up one day and think, "I know I'll get the Ubuntu Dev's to load a worm into Ubuntu that'll bring down the US Government's IT Infrastructure, because I'm from a different Country!"

No.

The ignorance you've displayed is honestly astounding, especially given the context of the Ubuntu Forums. Everyone here will tell you that they promote Peace, Understanding and a Community Driven model.

If the idea of other Countries selling products to your government frightens you, it might be time for you to build a time machine and go back to an age where the idea of the global village is still a long way away.

Why are you using Open Source Software if it's a security risk?
I might already have your Bank Details because I'm a bad person from a different country that wants to HURT America.

I normally wouldn't bother with this but I am honestly shocked by what you've said. An Open Mind is far superior to a closed one, I can't imagine how small and terrifying your world is.

Onoskelis

March 2nd, 2009, 03:38 AM

How is it a Security Risk?. Is it due to it being from a country that isn't America?, I'm sorry to burst your bubble but that's one of the most rediculous things I've ever heard. Do you think that Mark Shuttleworth is going to wake up one day and think, "I know I'll get the Ubuntu Dev's to load a worm into Ubuntu that'll bring down the US Government's IT Infrastructure, because I'm from a different Country!"

No.

The ignorance you've displayed is honestly astounding, especially given the context of the Ubuntu Forums. Everyone here will tell you that they promote Peace, Understanding and a Community Driven model.

If the idea of other Countries selling products to your government frightens you, it might be time for you to build a time machine and go back to an age where the idea of the global village is still a long way away.

Why are you using Open Source Software if it's a security risk?
I might already have your Bank Details because I'm a bad person from a different country that wants to HURT America.

I normally wouldn't bother with this but I am honestly shocked by what you've said. An Open Mind is far superior to a closed one, I can't imagine how small and terrifying your world is.

Are you telling me that it's okay to give access to America's government IT infrastructure to a foreign company? If terrorists infiltrate Canonical, and they have access to secure systems, they could launch an attack against us.

blastus

March 2nd, 2009, 03:42 AM

Using Canonical (a South African company) is a security risk.

South Africa is a democracy. Charlize Theron is also from South Africa. :P

Grant A.

March 2nd, 2009, 03:42 AM

Are you telling me that it's okay to give access to America's government IT infrastructure to a foreign company? If terrorists infiltrate Canonical, and they have access to secure systems, they could launch an attack against us.

Terrorists could infiltrate ANYTHING, just because it's an American company doesn't mean it can't be infiltrated, and just because it's a foreign company doesn't mean that it will. By the way, the IT infrastructure is not owned by the government, it's owned by private, yes, private companies that could be infiltrated at any moment! Oh noes!

Redache

March 2nd, 2009, 03:48 AM

Are you telling me that it's okay to give access to America's government IT infrastructure to a foreign company? If terrorists infiltrate Canonical, and they have access to secure systems, they could launch an attack against us.

.....................................

The "Hacker" from the UK who is currently appealing extradition to the US broke into American Government Infrastructure that for the most part ran Windows machines and used Blank Passwords to gain access. Windows is created by an American Company, they need to be shut down by your logic, as they don't make systems secure enough to stop 1337 haxors from infiltrating your networks.

It's not the Software or the Companies that are dangerous to your IT infrastructure in such a scenario, it's the idiots who don't follow proper security conventions.

Most Terrorist attacks will come from within anyway, so don't worry, you'll be betrayed by your own government agencies before Canonical is infiltrated by crazy terrorists looking to send a virus that will set off all of America's Nuclear Arsenal.

Isolationism is so boring.

Transien

March 2nd, 2009, 04:09 AM

Are you telling me that it's okay to give access to America's government IT infrastructure to a foreign company? If terrorists infiltrate Canonical, and they have access to secure systems, they could launch an attack against us.

So you are saying that "Terrorists" somehow can't infiltrate Microsoft?

Again, you are demonstrating the worst qualities of Americans. Please stop and think of what you are saying before your next post.

73ckn797

March 2nd, 2009, 04:28 AM

One good thing that I have heard from the president that I did not vote for. The money will get wasted somewhere else, so what does it matter?

oobuntoo

March 2nd, 2009, 04:36 AM

There may still be American support to manage and administor all the open source software and equipment, but what about all the hard working American software programmers and designers?

This is the equivalent of a president suddenly saying that he wants to build 200 new bridges, but he's going to buy all the material from China. It's self damaging.

You definitely don't know open source. Open source software is not owned or controlled by anyone or any particular country. Everyone has access to open source software codes, even you. If you don't want to use open source solution from foreign-based companies, you can go with U.S. companies like Redhat, IBM, SUN Microsystems, and many others.

As far as your concern with people in the proprietary sector losing jobs, all I can say is that everyone competes on the ground of merit. If the proprietary companies think they can provide better solutions at competitive prices than the ones from open source, then they have nothing to fear. The U.S. government is like any other entities when it comes to spending or saving. It has the right to choose products and services that it thinks is best for itself.

mips

March 2nd, 2009, 11:03 AM

Again, you are demonstrating the worst qualities of Americans.

Please stop and think of what you are saying before your next post.

+1

Edit: Comment removed.

mips

March 2nd, 2009, 12:06 PM

Are you telling me that it's okay to give access to America's government IT infrastructure to a foreign company? If terrorists infiltrate Canonical, and they have access to secure systems, they could launch an attack against us.

What foreign company? FOSS is not owned by any company. The source is freely available and open to all to scrutinise for security flaws & malicious code, unlike MS that practices security through obscurity.

Terrorist can infiltrate any company, do you think they have an allergy for us companies? Your own people have commited acts of terror against your country. Your own businesses have harmed your gov/economy. Terrorism is not exclusive to foreigners you know.

Some examples:

CA power outages, caused by Enron instucting power plants to shut down so they could increase demand in order to drive up prices. Ken Lay or whatever was a big buddy of Bush senior and lobbied for deregulation of the power industry which he got. How hard did this affect your country?

9/11 Suicide pilots were trained in US flight schools. Not the flight schools fault though, but demonstrates infiltration.

Then there are your own citizens blowing up government buildings. Or MS being a security risk to government organisations due to their lack of security.If you believe FOSS is such a big security risk to your government then you better draft a letter to them voicing your concerns but I suspect they will just laugh you off.
Why do I say this? Because your government is already using a LOT of oss stuff in the several HIGH security sectors of government like the DoD (Military, NSA etc), NASA, CIA, FBI etc.

I will provide you with some links you can evaluate for yourself:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10154053-16.html
http://www.disa.mil/forge/
http://www.nsa.gov/research/selinux/index.shtml
http://www.acq.osd.mil/jctd/articles/OTDRoadmapFinal.pdf
http://www.terrybollinger.com/dodfoss/dodfoss_html/index.html
http://www.terrybollinger.com/stenbitmemo/stenbitmemo_html.html
http://www.terrybollinger.com/foss/docs/bollinger--foss-security-in-military--ttcp-jsa--2005-04-20.pdf
http://www.terrybollinger.com/osseconsec/ossandeconomicsecurity/index.html
http://www.terrybollinger.com/index.html#dodfoss Many links you can follow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MITRE in case you are wondering who they are.
http://www.forbes.com/2003/06/20/cz_eb_0620linux.html
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7644
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040216213026637

Thousands more links could be provided but I think this should get the point across.

Google search for Linux in the .mil & .gov domains, you can expand on this:
http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=pfQ&q=Linux+site%3A.mil&btnG=Search&meta=
http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=hLl&q=Linux+site%3A.gov&btnG=Search&meta=

Now, do you honestly believe that learned people with many years of expertise in their fields (and pretty patriotic/paranoid, otherwise they would not be there) would simply on a whim decide they are now going to use oss because it's 'cheap' and disregard the security/stability of the USA (economy is part of this)?

Please consider what you are saying, really think about it and analyse it.

bnc9

March 2nd, 2009, 12:33 PM

I don't see how this is going to "kill" the software industry. In my opinion governments turning to open source is a sort of revolution where people are going to shift from writing proprietary code to writing open source code.In other words the people who lost their jobs at Microsoft Oracle etc are going find jobs in companies that deal with open source products Red Hat Sun etc who are going to start recruiting heavily to meet the demand. I believe if this comes through the money saved from switching to open source should be used in other sectors (Banking, education, Manufacturing) but thats just my opinion

PS: FOSS is not the only form of open source software........................

howlingmadhowie

March 2nd, 2009, 12:38 PM

what we have here is a broken window fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_window_fallacy).

miegiel

March 2nd, 2009, 03:11 PM

what we have here is a broken window fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_window_fallacy).

Sorry for nit picking, but can you elaborate a bit further?

What exactly does "here" refer to? Obama's thoughts on open source, this whole thread, or the previous post? I understand the broken window fallacy, but I don't see where it applies it here.

zmjjmz

March 2nd, 2009, 03:47 PM

Guys, I think that the troll has been overfed. IMO we should be contacting companies such as Los Alamos Computing, ZaReason, Dell, system76, eRacks, Google, IBM, Red Hat, Novell, (all American companies) and other open source supporters to write an open letter to Obama giving him a good reason to use open source software.

mips

March 2nd, 2009, 03:49 PM

Sorry for nit picking, but can you elaborate a bit further?

What exactly does "here" refer to? Obama's thoughts on open source, this whole thread, or the previous post? I understand the broken window fallacy, but I don't see where it applies it here.

It applies to the posts of poster Onoskelis (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=744447)

zmjjmz

March 2nd, 2009, 06:42 PM

http://www.ideastorm.com/ideaView?id=087700000000K04AAE

icp

March 2nd, 2009, 06:52 PM

Obama Rulez!!! :lolflag:

djsroknrol

March 2nd, 2009, 07:04 PM

Cutting costs is happening all over the globe right now with the economy the way it is, and it's a brilliant thought from the President's camp...but this statement from the OP's link sums it up:

Killing US high-tech industry in order to pay for stimulus that will have questionable value doesn’t seem like a good trade-off to me.

mips

March 2nd, 2009, 07:18 PM

...but this statement from the OP's link sums it up:

No, it does not.

miegiel

March 2nd, 2009, 08:49 PM

Cutting costs is happening all over the globe right now with the economy the way it is, and it's a brilliant thought from the President's camp
I hope this idea isn't motivated by a desire to cut costs. When people choose open source solely to cut costs they'll be disappointed. It's a good time to run with a deficit for a while when the economy gets bad, to bad there already is such a large deficit from the "good" years. If done right spending money on open source solutions can create more job opportunities, add to that the other benefits open source has and you might be stimulating the economy and improving the IT infrastructure at the same time. And, who knows, in the end you might also save some money too.

but this statement from the OP's link sums it up:
The linked article in the OP is written by an IP prophet, he doesn't scare me. I don't think this could bankrupt microsoft or any other propriety hugging company. And if it would, I'd argue they didn't have any means to exist in the 1st place.

NintendoTogepi

March 2nd, 2009, 09:54 PM

Does it really cost 400 billion a year in Windows licenses for the government? I don't believe that. That's nearly as much as they spend on the military.

HammerOfDoubt

March 2nd, 2009, 10:16 PM

You Americans always proclaim how everything should be free market based and then when the free market decides that a "foreign" product is better then the "American" you yell from the top of your lungs how this it's not US based.

I don't know if anyone has responded to this yet, since I haven't read this whole thread, but it's very ethnocentric and insulting of you to take one guy's whining on an internet forum as representative of the entirety of "Us Americans". If an American did something like this you'd probably get all worked up over it and call him a racist or something. I know that in most of Europe you aren't considered hip or invited to any of the big important parties unless you dislike America, but please keep that s**t off of here.

Yarbles

March 2nd, 2009, 10:56 PM

If an American did something like this you'd probably get all worked up over it and call him a racist or something. I know that in most of Europe you aren't considered hip or invited to any of the big important parties unless you dislike America, but please keep that s**t off of here.

Complaining about stereotyping foreign nations and ending on a note stereotyping foreign nations. Nice.

So have we finally established that Linux is Socialism? :lolflag: I'm waiting for the Limbaugh segment on it...

Redache

March 2nd, 2009, 11:07 PM

mips

March 2nd, 2009, 11:09 PM

bakedbeans4life

March 2nd, 2009, 11:13 PM

I don't know if anyone has responded to this yet, since I haven't read this whole thread, but it's very ethnocentric and insulting of you to take one guy's whining on an internet forum as representative of the entirety of "Us Americans". If an American did something like this you'd probably get all worked up over it and call him a racist or something. I know that in most of Europe you aren't considered hip or invited to any of the big important parties unless you dislike America, but please keep that s**t off of here.

I think what you are dealing with here are lots of people affiliated with different groups expressing what is best for them (a no-brainer I know).

Then you come out with this nugget "I know that in most of Europe you aren't considered hip or invited to any of the big important parties unless you dislike America, but please keep that s**t off of here."

You have your own agenda, so do they. What makes one viewpoint more righteous than the other?

HammerOfDoubt

March 2nd, 2009, 11:16 PM

You just did exactly the same thing.

Jeez guys, that was sort of the point. I guess I should think my think my jokes out more when dealing with text only.

Yarbles

March 2nd, 2009, 11:17 PM

What makes one viewpoint more righteous than the other?

He's an American. Not a European Socialist.:lolflag:

miegiel

March 2nd, 2009, 11:31 PM

Jeez guys, that was sort of the point. I guess I should think my think my jokes out more when dealing with text only.

Please make your sarcasm a bit more obvious next time :) There is already to much ranting, trolling and flaming polluting this thread. Which is a shame, because this could be an interesting discussion giving each one of us more insight on the subject.

yther

March 2nd, 2009, 11:48 PM

Please make your sarcasm a bit more obvious next time :) There is already to much ranting, trolling and flaming polluting this thread. Which is a shame, because this could be an interesting discussion giving each one of us more insight on the subject.

OK, so we've flamed the United States and poked at a couple of presidents... is it time to bring up Hitler yet? ;)

:popcorn:

miegiel

March 3rd, 2009, 12:00 AM

OK, so we've flamed the United States and poked at a couple of presidents... is it time to bring up Hitler yet? ;)

:popcorn:

No please don't, refute some of the ontopic post, preferably mine :biggrin:

cmat

March 3rd, 2009, 12:04 AM

All those "American" companies you refer to like "Microshaft" outsource most everything now to India and China. On the contrary many, many people like me use open source and work with it right here in American data centers.

Very, very true. I'm related to someone who works at a Canadian tech firm, almost everything is outsourced in the north american IT industry. Open source will have a competitive edge in such a market. People can conjure up their own software right here on native soil. Small tech firms will start cropping up and people won't be in fear of IP.

bakedbeans4life

March 3rd, 2009, 12:07 AM

OK, so we've flamed the United States and poked at a couple of presidents... is it time to bring up Hitler yet? ;)

:popcorn:

I know the popcorn card has been played, but let us not forget a certain member of the Bush family directly or indirectly funded Hitler and his regime. Are the Bush family not a God's honest American creation?

I think this would be an appropriate juncture to close this thread...unless someone cares to say otherwise.

cmat

March 3rd, 2009, 12:08 AM

This thread had so much potential *sigh*.

bakedbeans4life

March 3rd, 2009, 12:14 AM

This thread had so much potential *sigh*.

Probably yes, but not in the vein of the poster I responded to. That about Hitler etc. Maybe a new thread should be started from the remnants of the old.

HammerOfDoubt

March 3rd, 2009, 12:18 AM

I know the popcorn card has been played, but let us not forget a certain member of the Bush family directly or indirectly funded Hitler and his regime. Are the Bush family not a God's honest American creation?

I think this would be an appropriate juncture to close this thread...unless someone cares to say otherwise.

Just say it man. You hate America. :lolflag:

------------
ON TOPIC:
I think government funded open source is a great idea. Maybe we'll get our own National Operating System like Russia is doing.

In Soviet Russia, System operates You!

Grant A.

March 3rd, 2009, 12:20 AM

Thus proving Godwin's law yet again. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)

davidryder

March 7th, 2009, 10:03 PM

Are you telling me that it's okay to give access to America's government IT infrastructure to a foreign company? If terrorists infiltrate Canonical, and they have access to secure systems, they could launch an attack against us.

I'm pretty sure the government doesn't currently allow Microsoft access into their infrastructure. This is probably one of the most ludicrous comments in this thread.

what we have here is a broken window fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_window_fallacy).

Indeed.

If the gov't decided to switch to OSS then it will create a real competitor to MS and they will either innovate and triumph, make their software more affordable, downsize, or some combination of the above. I can't imaging anyone arguing that it would be a bad thing to break up the size, power, and control MS has over the IT world.

This also isn't an either/or, all-or-nothing scenario. Opening up OSS alternatives to MS products doesn't imply that the government is going to completely stop doing business with MS. In fact, it is IMO that that implication is silly.