GTK+ and QT need to learn from Windows 7's Superbar

[wersdaluv]

I tried Windows 7 about two months ago. Superbar is one of the best things I saw in Windows 7. GTK+ and Qt should learn from its animations. When you hover your mouse on a particular point on the window list, the shape of the button changes as it follows the particular point where the tip of the mouse is on. It's hard to describe. I hope, I can add a screenshot.

There's a lot of discussion about the future of gtk. To be honest, I want GNOME 3 to use Qt so there would be better integration between KDE and GNOME, there's one particular toolkit that's getting most of the attention, and to save developing effort so GNOME people could focus on other things. Devs are working on the future of gtk+ 3.0 now. They already have nice animations (http://aruiz.typepad.com/siliconisland/2009/02/gtk-30-themin-1.html). I still think that the one in Windows 7 looks better than any widget animation I have ever seen, though.

I hope, our toolkits will have this eyecandy. :)

EDIT:
Take it easy and read first. It's just about the mouse hover animation. Some are too fanboyish that the word "Windows" freaks them out so much. Just the type of people who say Micro$ux.

Lookie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLZcGDyacHo&NR=1

[Grant A.]

NO!

This is the last thing I hope happens! The more Windows ideas we steal, the less innovative we become! What ever happened to innovation and coming up with your own ideas?! Seriously! The last things we need are more claims that Linux's ideas are stolen from Windows. Let's come up with something so much better that Microsoft has to steal from us!

[OutOfReach]

no!

this is the last thing i hope happens! The more windows ideas we steal, the less innovative we become! What ever happened to innovation and coming up with your own ideas?! Seriously! The last things we need are more claims that linux's ideas are stolen from windows. Let's come up with something so much better that microsoft has to steal from us!

+1
Oh wow, I could NOT put it in better wording. =D>

Come one guys, where's our creativity?

[Stan_1936]

+2

I don't want my linux system to look anything like Windows.

[Rokurosv]

I think Windows 7 looks a lot like KDE 4. I don't think we need the bar, nor whe should copy stuff from other OSes.

The toolkit thing has been discussed before, and I think that GNOME should stick to GTK and KDE to Qt. Qt 4.5 is awesome, testing it on KDE 4.2, and I hope GTK 3 improves too.

I'm not that into copying stuff from other OSes, like the Mac menu bar someone on OSNews suggested, maybe the looks but that's it.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Really its all just more junk, why copy?

[init1]

Eh, I wasnt too impressed by the "superbar".

[Polygon]

I really like the new taskbar (superbar?)

it makes it less cluttered, instead of having 3 taskbar entries for the GIMP for example, you just have the gimp icon, click it, and then you can select the window you want. I think its genius personally, and would love a gnome port of it. Just because microsoft made it doesn't mean its automatically a bad idea.

[Onoskelis]

NO!
What ever happened to innovation and coming up with your own ideas?!

Open source is about taking other people's idea and improving them. Why even make the source code available to people if they aren't going to use it?

[TravisNewman]

The superbar is kinda like the osx dock ya know? I do like it, but it's hardly original. For as long as there have been OS wars, Windows has been copying a lot of Mac OS. This is no different.

That said, I'm not saying that OSX is the be-all end-all OS, in fact I don't really care for it. But we have to realize that all operating systems, and Linux WM's and DE's, have good ideas. They borrow from each other sometimes, and innovate when appropriate. The idea of having a single bar that launches programs AND shows you all the running programs is a fantastic one. I've been wanting a really good implementation of this in Linux for years, even before OSX honestly. When I told some friends the idea everyone thought I was crazy, then OSX does it and now Windows is following along. It takes up less screen real estate, and it makes more sense. Where you put the icon for the program is where it "lives" in the displayed desktop. I prefer the way Windows 7 handles it to the way OSX handles it personally, and yeah, I think either Gnome or KDE or someone else entirely should try to incorporate that. It's not a matter of stealing ideas, it's about keeping up with the times.

I DO NOT think that we should copy the OSX or Win7 implementation, I think we should come up with something unique that pulls off the same kind of organization. That said, I do not have the talent to pull of such a feat, so all I can do is hope that someone does.

[Skripka]

Eh, I wasnt too impressed by the "superbar".

It gets a "2" on my Meh-o-meter.

[Giant Speck]

It gets a "2" on my Meh-o-meter.

On a scale of what to what, with which what being the most meh?

[SunnyRabbiera]

I really like the new taskbar (superbar?)

it makes it less cluttered, instead of having 3 taskbar entries for the GIMP for example, you just have the gimp icon, click it, and then you can select the window you want. I think its genius personally, and would love a gnome port of it. Just because microsoft made it doesn't mean its automatically a bad idea.

Me I prefer an old fashioned taskbar, the OSX like taskbar of windows 7 does not impress.

[wersdaluv]

Just the superbar's mouse hover animation. take it easy

[swoll1980]

doesn't awn group duplicate apps under the same icon, or no?

[Giant Speck]

Just the superbar's mouse hover animation. take it easy

Your basically talking about the glow effect that the superbar buttons make when you move the cursor over them, right?

[wersdaluv]

Yeppp. That's why I'm talking about animations of toolkits.

[geoken]

Yeppp. That's why I'm talking about animations of toolkits.

I think he's also referring to the way the box that holds the thumbnails shifts and resizes (if a entry has more/less windows than the last) with a smooth animation.

[Vince4Amy]

I hated the Super Bar and was quite annoyed that there's no "Classic" option.

[mangar]

The problem with fancy animations is that they only impress for the first 30 minutes, and than it fades to the background.

That's one of the reasons Compiz doesn't really impress anyone - there are only few truly useful plugins (imho: scale, expose, shadows). The rest of them are just toys.

As for "stealing" ideas - everything is evolutionary, if you learn from others, you won't advance very far. (how an idea can be "stolen" anyway? Even patents are time limited). (Cairo-dock, docky, awn, kool-dock, kxdocker, spanel, and CDE shows that there's ample interest in docks, btw).

The superbar is great, btw. gnome+kde are pretty stale.

[Netsu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLZcGDyacHo&NR=1 Guess that this is what he's talking about. Quite pretty if you're into all those glossy, transparent desktop bling-bling, I'm not.

[wersdaluv]

I think he's also referring to the way the box that holds the thumbnails shifts and resizes (if a entry has more/less windows than the last) with a smooth animation.
Nope but that's a good thing too. I think, it's more of a compiz thing than a toolkit thing.

[wersdaluv]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLZcGDyacHo&NR=1 Guess that this is what he's talking about. Quite pretty if you're into all those glossy, transparent desktop bling-bling, I'm not.
Yep. That's what I'm talking about. Thanks for the link :)

[antiloop]

Fine with me.

Taking others ideas and improve on them. Instead of starting from scratch every time.

[Sand & Mercury]

I'm all for it, it would be a nice feature to have.

[abhilashm86]

apart from windows 7 superbar, its not too awesome.........
the cube effect of compiz rocks in ubuntu,donno when microsoft would implement cube in future versions of MS, all windows os just have one change,the GUI plus same old REGISTRY(group policy editor) :)

[SunnyRabbiera]

I'm all for it, it would be a nice feature to have.

Looks utterly useless to me, just pretty colors for something so simplistic.
I am sure compiz or KDE4 can easily replicate this given time

[mcduck]

Very pretty effect, but it has absolutely zero value when thinking about usability (or actually anything else than pure eyecandy). So I wouldn't stress about having or not having that effect.

Anyway, I agree that having a combined application launcher/window selector, preferably as applet for existing panels, would be nice. Mainly because current Window List applet in gnome fails miserably to work on vertical panels. But I definitely wouldn't go as far as replacing existing panel applets with it, just add one as extra option.

edit: what comes to Gnome using Qt that would be the day when I move to XFCE instead. Qt is just so cheap and ugly looking that it hurts my eyes. :D

[SunnyRabbiera]

Anyway, I agree that having a combined application launcher/window selector, preferably as applet for existing panels, would be nice. Mainly because current Window List applet in gnome fails miserably to work on vertical panels. But I definitely wouldn't go as far as replacing existing panel applets with it, just add one as extra option.


Well the XP toolbar isnt much better, or the one in vista

[mcduck]

Well the XP toolbar isnt much better, or the one in vista

Can they even be used as vertical toolbars? I didn't know that, it's been so long since I've used Windows.. :D

Gnome's toolbars work great with vertical configurations, it's just the Window List-applet that doesn't, and there's no proper alternative for it either.

[Sand & Mercury]

Looks utterly useless to me, just pretty colors for something so simplistic.
I am sure compiz or KDE4 can easily replicate this given time
KDE 4 is just about there already.

[Skripka]

On a scale of what to what, with which what being the most meh?

Meh is measured with a Standard Housecat. The scale ranging from:

10=Said cat looking at monitor then back at the human saying "Enough BS human, scratch my ears now"

to

0=Total and complete Feline Inertia, whereby one would have to call Confuse-A-Cat to get it out of the rut its' surroundings have put it into.

[TravisNewman]

Meh is measured with a Standard Housecat. The scale ranging from:

10=Said cat looking at monitor then back at the human saying "Enough BS human, scratch my ears now"

to

0=Total and complete Feline Inertia, whereby one would have to call Confuse-A-Cat to get it out of the rut its' surroundings have put it into.
Ooh, nice Monty Python reference. One of the more subtle ones that most people won't get.

[mcduck]

By the way, I still think E17 has the best mouseover effects (and lots of other cool stuff nobody else has).. And it doesn't even need a modern computer or graphics acceleration to do that.. ;)

[Skripka]

By the way, I still think E17 has the best mouseover effects (and lots of other cool stuff nobody else has).. And it doesn't even need a modern computer or graphics acceleration to do that.. ;)


It does...if only the number of folks actively developing and bugfixing were greater than the number of folks who could sit on my couch.

[zakany]

I think it would be a fine thing to copy. User feedback to cursor position isn't a waste nor useless. How many times a day do you find yourself spinning your mouse hoping to find your pointer?

[mcduck]

It does...if only the number of folks actively developing and bugfixing were greater than the number of folks who could sit on my couch.

So true. It's sad that the greatest of desktop environments has so few developers that it's unlikely to ever become ready. If I had any useful programming skills that's definitely the project I'd help.

Perhaps a couple of Gnome/KDE/Compiz developers should help them out a bit, they'd get a good chance to learn how to make lightweight and absolutely beautiful things while doing that.. ;)

[cmat]

NO!

This is the last thing I hope happens! The more Windows ideas we steal, the less innovative we become! What ever happened to innovation and coming up with your own ideas?! Seriously! The last things we need are more claims that Linux's ideas are stolen from Windows. Let's come up with something so much better that Microsoft has to steal from us!

I think we hit a point that our ideas are beginning to converge. Seriously, we haven't really come up with anything revolutionary in terms of interface. We all use scroll bars, command buttons, windows, toolbars, status bars, menus (GTK has tear away menus which is innovative).

Also many people seemed pretty upset with the changes in the mock-ups of GNOME 3.0. Innovation stagnates when people refuse to try something new.

[amitabhishek]

I think Windows 7 looks a lot like KDE 4.

+1.

I always thought that it was only me (thinking like that).

[clustermonkey]

We all use scroll bars, command buttons, windows, toolbars, status bars, menus (GTK has tear away menus which is innovative).


Actually, Motif 1.2 had tear-off menus in X11R4 at least as early as 1993.

[smartboyathome]

I am liking more and more the idea of Window grouping (which is basically what the superbar does). If someone could combine this with the Compiz window group plugin, I think it could become even better than Windows 7's superbar. :D

[Giant Speck]

I am liking more and more the idea of Window grouping (which is basically what the superbar does). If someone could combine this with the Compiz window group plugin, I think it could become even better than Windows 7's superbar. :D

I personally like the increase in control I have over window previews. I really love the Peek feature. I love how I can close windows from right inside the thumbnail and even control programs like WMP. I also love how I can view minimized window previews.

While I would love it more if Windows had multiple workspaces like Linux does, the Superbar window previews capability almost makes up for this lack in features.

[stevejesus]

GTK+ and QT need to learn from Windows 7's Superbar
Why do you think that 2 toolkits should learn from the Superbar. That's like saying a spatula and a rolling pin need to learn from Rachel Ray...

[Frak]

+1
Oh wow, I could NOT put it in better wording. =D>

Come one guys, where's our creativity?
You took it from Windows or OS X. Linux is barely innovative on the UI front.

[Aflack]

havent seen much innovation from the gnome side.

[Vadi]

You took it from Windows or OS X. Linux is barely innovative on the UI front.

Yeah, Compiz isn't innovative. Always on top or on visible workspace isn't innovative. Organized Apps menu isn't innovative.

Keep on trollin.

[Frak]

Yeah, Compiz isn't innovative. Always on top or on visible workspace isn't innovative. Organized Apps menu isn't innovative.

Keep on trollin.
Windows had what Compiz had way before Compiz existed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0idaN0MY1U

Always on top is a Win.Forms feature, that again, Windows had before it happened in Linux. Microsoft recognizes that the developers should make that decision because they decide the flow of the application.

Organized apps menu... hmm.. search feature. Way more innovative because it cuts down clutter. Instead of going "Well, I think it's x", I go "I want x"

Linux has a lot to learn from Microsoft. Linux dev's will rip off Microsoft more by the next Ubuntu release, you watch.

[Vadi]

"Windows had what Compiz had way before Compiz existed." -> Never ever seen it, as has nobody else, except that video... so who cares if it had it if nobody has access to it. I certainly don't.

"Always on top is a Win.Forms feature, that again, Windows had before it happened in Linux" I dunno, you say no date.

"Organized apps menu... hmm.. search feature. Way more innovative because it cuts down clutter" Worst feature ever. I should be able to use my mouse to navigate, not be forced into a combination. The search feature is a poor solution to a cluttered menu. A workaround.

You don't sound like you know what you are talking about anyway, because what matters is who makes most of the feature - not who gets it first. If app A gets feature A and app B implements it, tells to the whole world, and the whole world is using app B, then app B won.

Unfortunately, that's what keeps happening with Linux! It's not great at marketing it's features.

[Frak]

You don't sound like you know what you are talking about anyway, because what matters is who makes most of the feature - not who gets it first. If app A gets feature A and app B implements it, tells to the whole world, and the whole world is using app B, then app B won.

Unfortunately, that's what keeps happening with Linux! It's not great at marketing it's features.

lol u mad?

[ElSlunko]

Linux has a lot to learn from Microsoft. Linux dev's will rip off Microsoft more by the next Ubuntu release, you watch.

I hope so! Since everyone is so happy with windows 7 like it's the messiah. Cool thing is I won't have to pay for those features! Yay.

[Frak]

I hope so! Since everyone is so happy with windows 7 like it's the messiah. Cool thing is I won't have to pay for those features! Yay.
That's the spirit. Kinda working imitations of popular implementations.

[ElSlunko]

That's the spirit. Kinda working imitations of popular implementations.

Woo! For free! So I can troll on ubu forums all day too.

[Frak]

Woo! For free! So I can troll on ubu forums all day too.
Is it trolling if it's true?

[Kdar]

Don't we have several different docks for this already? and wide variety to pick from.

Plus, I think that superbar really looks very very close to what Apple have.

[ElSlunko]

Is it trolling if it's true?

Yeah. Trolling doesn't require or is dismissed either by truth. Trolling is in the nature of a post.

[ElSlunko]

Don't we have several different docks for this already? and wide variety to pick from.

Plus, I think that superbar really looks very very close to what Apple have.

It is mostly. Superbar has cherry picked various ideas that already existed and expanded it into a panel.

That said, it's a very very good implementation of it.

[Frak]

Plus, I think that superbar really looks very very close to what Apple have.

Looks like what Windows had way back when.

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/win7/win7_preview_2_02.jpg
http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/system/managers/running/win31.png

[Skripka]

Looks like what Windows had way back when.

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/win7/win7_preview_2_02.jpg
http://www.guidebookgallery.org/pics/gui/system/managers/running/win31.png

Win7 should at least come with Ye Olde Windows Entertainment Pack. Shipping Windows without at least FreeCell and Minesweeper, and SkiFree/Chip's Challenge is a crime against humanity.

[Frak]

Win7 should at least come with Ye Olde Windows Entertainment Pack. Shipping Windows without at least FreeCell and Minesweeper, and SkiFree/Chip's Challenge is a crime against humanity.
True that. I LOVED Chips Challenge.

[ElSlunko]

True that. I LOVED Chips Challenge.

Ski Free is the only reason I got into computers at all!

[Mr. Picklesworth]

The thing I'm jealous of lately is the way they've added kinetic touch scrolling to (almost) everything with a scroll widget. Not a hack within each piece of software; it is actually a UI toolkit thing. Basically you can put your finger anywhere within the scrollable area and flick. For some reason it doesn't work with their own photo gallery software, but everything else I looked at does it, from Notepad to Chromium's Options dialogue.

It's really sad that they got that feature before GTK+, since GTK has been used on touch screen devices (eg: Maemo, OpenMoko, and some actual systems that people use) for years now and the toolkit has (for a VERY long time) had an intelligent system where a scroll area is a container that holds other widgets and implements everything magically.

[LowSky]

Windows 7 should keep to itself

playing skifree right now

[Zoot7]

I LOVED Chips Challenge.
Ditto, I remember getting up to level 100 or so in it. :)

[RiceMonster]

I still play Ski Free and Chips challenge. Classic games. They both work fantastically in wine as well.