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MikeTheC
February 20th, 2009, 08:24 AM
The other day, a thread had been started up regarding the locking down of the "Other OS Talk" area of the UbuntuForums message board. The administration, to the extent they have discussed this, have said that they couldn't deal with the amount of posts being made there as opposed to those things which are either Ubuntu-centric or UF-centric. And that's fine, no problem.

However, I decided this evening (well, morning in *my* time zone) to take a look over at another particular section of UbuntuForums which is known to have notoriously-heavy traffic, just to see what's going on there. After all, if this message board's back-end database is being so overwhelmed with entries and tables and columns (oh my!) and so forth, then surely it would be practical to try and keep all areas reasonably and equally maintained. Right? Well...

So, as I started to say, I headed over to the Community Cafe Games sub-section of the Forum Community area, and with no shut-downs, or lock-outs, or disabling in sight, here's what I found:


Word association (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=86033) - 40653 Posts
The BUMP Thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=520091) - 34800 Posts
The Banning Game (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=863374) - 6274 Posts
You know you're a geek when (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=86237) - 5146 Posts
The person below you game (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=662663) - 4338 Posts
Chain word association (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=543163) - 3353 Posts
The 10000 Game! (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=565461) - 3292 Posts
The NO you cant post here thread! (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=991222) - 1311 Posts
One word story (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=985671) - 1111 Posts

To save anyone having to do the math, the post counts listed above total 100,278. So then, I thought, "Well, if this board's administration locked down the "Other OS Talk" section, then surely it has to be worse than this. Right? Well...

It's not even close. I couldn't find enough threads to total more than a thousand or so posts. Now, mind you, I suppose if you were to dig back through the Other OS Talk area all the way back to the beginning of time, it might total a few thousand posts. However, that's a far cry (both in terms of totals and in terms of contribution rates) from what's going on in Community Games.

Clearly, based on the out-pouring of support in a prior discussion thread on this topic, quite a number of people (myself included) found the Other OS Talk area useful. But it does beg the question, if it had be shut down due to traffic and posts, then by what rationale is the Community Games section kept open? Moreover, what kind of load is it placing on the board? After all, surely 100,000+ posts, no matter how long any one of them is, has gotta start totaling more than what we saw in an area with less than 1000-2000 posts.

So my thinking is, how about we get rid of the community games section (I mean, do we *honestly* need a thread dedicated to post "bumping"? And a 40,000+ strong thread on "word association"? C'mon...), which should help to substantially throttle down the board usage, and then maybe we can get back those things taken away from us which we find either desirable (post counts and user thanks ratings) or useful (Other OS Talk, etc.)


Any opinions from the rest of you folks?

Mr. Picklesworth
February 20th, 2009, 08:27 AM
I think all such threads should be terminated immediately with a link to the #ubuntu-forums IRC channel in the lock message.

quazi
February 20th, 2009, 08:29 AM
I think the administrators probably felt that, if there were discussions being had about other operating systems, those discussions could be better conducted at the forum pertaining specifically to that OS.

PrimoTurbo
February 20th, 2009, 08:32 AM
I think it is clear that they DO NOT want you to talk about other operating systems because they don't want you to switch from Ubuntu. Anyone who claims a different reason is not telling the truth.

KiwiNZ
February 20th, 2009, 08:33 AM
The rational was that we had a serious issue with server and database loading. It was felt that some pruning was needed and this could be done in conjunction with returning to our roots , that is Ubuntu.

You do however make a good point regarding the Community Games Section.

KiwiNZ
February 20th, 2009, 08:34 AM
With respect that is FUD.

This is not helpful


I think it is clear that they DO NOT want you to talk about other operating systems because they don't want you to switch from Ubuntu. Anyone who claims a different reason is not telling the truth.

MikeTheC
February 20th, 2009, 08:35 AM
Hey KiwiNZ! Glad to hear from you.

Do you know if there was a rationale in not dealing with the Community Games section? Seems like a far more appropriate target. Anyhow... Made my point earlier, no need to pound it any further on my part.


Mike

KiwiNZ
February 20th, 2009, 08:39 AM
yes there was .The games section keeps that errr stuff out of the mainstream forums

Bachstelze
February 20th, 2009, 08:40 AM
With respect that is FUD.

This is not helpful

And infraction-worthy, IMHO.

KiwiNZ
February 20th, 2009, 08:42 AM
Agreed ,I thought about it but decided not to inflame this thread.

Friendly logical discussion is far better , and more enjoyable


And infraction-worthy, IMHO.

PrimoTurbo
February 20th, 2009, 08:50 AM
So you actually considered punishing me for speaking an opinion? It's not like I did anything wrong, I pointed out the obvious in a single comment with out attacking or insulting anyone. So much for freedom of discussion.

FuturePilot
February 20th, 2009, 08:50 AM
Close the Other OS Talk forum and you get a lot of shouting from the people that frequent that forum. Close the Community Games forum and you'll get a lot of out cry from the people that frequent that forum. I don't see an easy solution to this. Either way someone is going to be unhappy.

KiwiNZ
February 20th, 2009, 08:53 AM
This is not the place for this . Stay on topic


So you actually considered punishing me for speaking an opinion? It's not like I did anything wrong, I pointed out the obvious in a single comment with out attacking or insulting anyone. So much for freedom of discussion.

PrimoTurbo
February 20th, 2009, 08:53 AM
Close the Other OS Talk forum and you get a lot of shouting from the people that frequent that forum. Close the Community Games forum and you'll get a lot of out cry from the people that frequent that forum. I don't see an easy solution to this. Either way someone is going to be unhappy.

Other OS Talk was very useful and did not use a lot of resources compared to Community Games forum.

Community Games forum is mostly spam that allows people to increase post count.

KiwiNZ
February 20th, 2009, 08:54 AM
Only support forums add to post count


Other OS Talk was very useful and did not use a lot of resources compared to Community Games forum.

Community Games forum is mostly spam that allows people to increase post count.

swoll1980
February 20th, 2009, 08:55 AM
Close the Other OS Talk forum and you get a lot of shouting from the people that frequent that forum. Close the Community Games forum and you'll get a lot of out cry from the people that frequent that forum. I don't see an easy solution to this. Either way someone is going to be unhappy.

Yeah, but at least other OS provided support. Which is why this forum is here in the first place.

FuturePilot
February 20th, 2009, 08:55 AM
Other OS Talk was very useful and did not use a lot of resources compared to Community Games forum.

Community Games forum is mostly spam that allows people to increase post count.

Posts don't count in there.

What is spam to one may be fun to another.


Yeah, but at least other OS provided support. Which is why this forum is here in the first place.

In that case the Cafe should go too.

PrimoTurbo
February 20th, 2009, 08:55 AM
Only support forums add to post count

Really??!? Did not notice that. That explains why my post count is so low after 4 years.

NintendoTogepi
February 20th, 2009, 09:01 AM
Please get rid of Games and bring back Other OS Talk.

Games is useless, Other OS Talk was great.

swoll1980
February 20th, 2009, 09:04 AM
Posts don't count in there.

What is spam to one may be fun to another.



In that case the Cafe should go too.

A place to have general discussion can make a community stronger, posting bump 40,000 times doesn't create the same intimacy.

Sorivenul
February 20th, 2009, 09:13 AM
Folks, it's been a few days. I understand we're sad or upset over the Other OS Talk subforum closing, but there is no need to linger on the topic. Technoviking put in a point on the topic for the Forum Council, if it helps anybody feel better.

The server, singular, is overloaded as it is, and if the administrators viewed removing Other OS Talk as a necessary step in easing that load, so be it. With the release of Jaunty just around the corner, you can count on a massive influx of new members and new posts, which means new problems for the servers and administrators. The administrators are not superheroes or MacGyver, and cannot manufacture a new server from toothpicks and bubble-gum wrappers. I trust them to do their jobs, nothing more nothing less.

Many Other OS Talk regulars have moved "Other OS" discussion to nOOST (see my signature), and in the event Other OS Talk would return, our Other OS discussions would as well. We still post here in other forums because, more than anything, Ubuntu is about the community, which we still support.

Peace.

mips
February 20th, 2009, 09:24 AM
I think it is clear that they DO NOT want you to talk about other operating systems because they don't want you to switch from Ubuntu.


The rational was that we had a serious issue with server and database loading. It was felt that some pruning was needed and this could be done in conjunction with returning to our roots , that is Ubuntu.


The highlighted parts kinda say the same thing to me although for different reasons.

The impression I get is that this forum is to be Ubuntu only. Kinda like a MS/Apple forum where they only allow MS related stuff and anything non MS/Apple will be deleted.

What's already happened is there are threads about other OS' that popped up in the Cafe because they could not go where they used to go. This is fine according to the forum rules as they are still FOSS related but will this change in the future to banning these types of threads?

I also agree that the Cafe Games takes up way more space and is not even support related in any form.

By all means, this is an Ubuntu forum and the owners staff have every right to remove what they want but it kinda looks less like a community forum and more like a straight support forum.

bapoumba
February 20th, 2009, 09:45 AM
An [other_os] prefix has been added. If you feel there are important threads in the closed OST subforum you would like to see in the general support area, please report them, we'll move and add the prefix.

Regarding the Cafe Games area, it helps keep the relaxed happy banter that happens on _every_ forum to a place where it does not clutter any other area, I mean the Cafe. It is virtually impossible to prevent people to have fun and laughs. It is human.
However, it is possible to decide, given the hardware and other circumstances, to refocus the forums on Ubuntu.

keithweddell
February 20th, 2009, 10:08 AM
Forum games are not my thing but each to his own. What about lifing games threads - a maximum time to live? It would give you the ability to weed the older threads while still allowing space for the fun.

Keith

dmizer
February 20th, 2009, 10:13 AM
I also agree that the Cafe Games takes up way more space and is not even support related in any form.

To this point: "Space" and "server drain" are relative. One of the biggest drains on the server is searches. Since Cafe Games is not indexed, it doesn't cause any drain on the server, while other OS talk did.

mips
February 20th, 2009, 12:09 PM
Ok, looks like a done deal.

What happens with support request for non-Ubuntu related distros seeing they don't fit in the normal support areas? Can we start reporting them for jailing/deletion?

PrimoTurbo
February 20th, 2009, 12:21 PM
Improve the hosting and forums than, this forum has less then a million users and it's already failing? There are forums like gaiaonline.com that have over 16 million registered users.

Tews
February 20th, 2009, 01:13 PM
Improve the hosting and forums than, this forum has less then a million users and it's already failing? There are forums like gaiaonline.com that have over 16 million registered users.

And I'm sure that you will be the first in line to donate the $$ needed to accomplish this??? ... I didn't think so..

Rocket2DMn
February 20th, 2009, 01:24 PM
Folks, it's been a few days. I understand we're sad or upset over the Other OS Talk subforum closing, but there is no need to linger on the topic. Technoviking put in a point on the topic for the Forum Council, if it helps anybody feel better.

The server, singular, is overloaded as it is, and if the administrators viewed removing Other OS Talk as a necessary step in easing that load, so be it. With the release of Jaunty just around the corner, you can count on a massive influx of new members and new posts, which means new problems for the servers and administrators. The administrators are not superheroes or MacGyver, and cannot manufacture a new server from toothpicks and bubble-gum wrappers. I trust them to do their jobs, nothing more nothing less.

Many Other OS Talk regulars have moved "Other OS" discussion to nOOST (see my signature), and in the event Other OS Talk would return, our Other OS discussions would as well. We still post here in other forums because, more than anything, Ubuntu is about the community, which we still support.

Peace.

Well said, see below for more info...


An [other_os] prefix has been added. If you feel there are important threads in the closed OST subforum you would like to see in the general support area, please report them, we'll move and add the prefix.

Regarding the Cafe Games area, it helps keep the relaxed happy banter that happens on _every_ forum to a place where it does not clutter any other area, I mean the Cafe. It is virtually impossible to prevent people to have fun and laughs. It is human.
However, it is possible to decide, given the hardware and other circumstances, to refocus the forums on Ubuntu.

+1 on using the other_os tag in support forums and reporting important posts to be moved (just please don't start going down the page and reporting everything). Also +1 on the Cafe areas being there for fun - while I understand the logic behind closing them, at this point is believed that they help bring about a sense of community, and the Games section keeps that junk out of the main Cafe area. In the end, they contribute to the Ubuntu Community whereas the Other OS Talk did not as much.


Forum games are not my thing but each to his own. What about lifing games threads - a maximum time to live? It would give you the ability to weed the older threads while still allowing space for the fun.

Keith

The ideas has been thrown out there for closing down old games that aren't used anymore, but closing active ones would cause a fuss, and they would just be re-created.


To this point: "Space" and "server drain" are relative. One of the biggest drains on the server is searches. Since Cafe Games is not indexed, it doesn't cause any drain on the server, while other OS talk did.

+1 on searching. It has been explained to us that search queries being performed are one of the main causes of Database Error pages we sometimes get.


Ok, looks like a done deal.

What happens with support request for non-Ubuntu related distros seeing they don't fit in the normal support areas? Can we start reporting them for jailing/deletion?

Nope, they are now welcome in the main support categories with the new [other_os] prefix!

handy
February 20th, 2009, 02:22 PM
Folks, it's been a few days. I understand we're sad or upset over the Other OS Talk subforum closing, but there is no need to linger on the topic. Technoviking put in a point on the topic for the Forum Council, if it helps anybody feel better.

The server, singular, is overloaded as it is, and if the administrators viewed removing Other OS Talk as a necessary step in easing that load, so be it. With the release of Jaunty just around the corner, you can count on a massive influx of new members and new posts, which means new problems for the servers and administrators. The administrators are not superheroes or MacGyver, and cannot manufacture a new server from toothpicks and bubble-gum wrappers. I trust them to do their jobs, nothing more nothing less.

Many Other OS Talk regulars have moved "Other OS" discussion to nOOST (see my signature), and in the event Other OS Talk would return, our Other OS discussions would as well. We still post here in other forums because, more than anything, Ubuntu is about the community, which we still support.

Peace.

+1

The new [other_os] prefix is reasonable compromise under the circumstances I think.

Though the UF's have now lost the ease of browsing threads by specific OS or distro/BSD titled sub-forum. Which is quite a loss.

Perhaps the OOST sub-forum will return one day in the future when the big new server (that's eta is as yet unknown, at least by the forum users) is put into service?

In the meantime we have a the nOOST (http://grubbn.org/otheros/index.php) forum which is filling the hole for many of the old regular OOST sub-forum users, so it is working out.

The UF's will have lost some experienced Linux user help by closing the OOST sub-forum, & will, I think, have made the Ubuntu community somewhat more isolated in the overall Linux community; just how much is probably impossible to say.

I don't think making any more of a fuss about the closure of the OOST sub-forum will do anyone any good, we have all expressed our views at least once, it has been taken note of & has been & will be discussed by the administration at the next council meeting. That's it. We wait on the outcome of that meeting.

MikeTheC
February 20th, 2009, 03:41 PM
My my my, look at the responses to this.

I guess there really isn't any point in continuing this, since one cannot effectively argue with another when neither party shares any (or at least a sufficient amount of) either common reference or common ground. I'm sorry, but I find myself unable to accept the circumstances of this board as they are presented. I kindly thank those who have thus far participated, user and admin alike, for their contributions.

ArtF10
February 20th, 2009, 04:56 PM
I think it is clear that they DO NOT want you to talk about other operating systems because they don't want you to switch from Ubuntu..

What's wrong with that???

Recently the Arch thread(Why is Arch so Good) contains several references to how good the Arch documentation is and that there is an Arch Forum for help. Well, if you're using Arch, with all due respect, you should be on the Arch Forum. With the countdown to the end of XP having commenced this week, this is an opportunity for Ubuntu to step up and pry away some of those users....and keep them!

aysiu
February 20th, 2009, 06:24 PM
[I'm speaking here only for myself and not on behalf of the staff]

I wasn't privy to any of the discussions regarding the closing of Other OS Talk, but I agree that the Community Cafe Games section is pretty useless and should be pruned as well.

As for the suggestion that we're trying to discourage people from leaving Ubuntu, I don't see how you can possibly defend that position, seeing as how many of the staff and admin use other Linux distros (or even *gasp* Mac OS X or Windows).

As a matter of fact, if our main goal were to keep you here, it would be in our best interests to keep the Other OS Talk here instead of encouraging users of other distros to go to other distros' forums.

PrimoTurbo, I don't think your conspiracy theories should be given any credence, and it's actually personally insulting that you would call people liars who do not agree with you.

On a personal note, I'm a bit sad the Other OS Talk section has been closed (though if it's sucking up resources, I understand why). One of the things I love about our forums is the friendliness here, and the fact that even Windows users would sometimes get better support for Windows problems on the Ubuntu Forums than on some Windows forums. That, to me, represents the true spirit of Ubuntu.

ticopelp
February 20th, 2009, 06:46 PM
If the Games section were a significant drain on the Ubuntu forums, I wouldn't miss it. I don't post there and think that thread-bumping "games" are a waste of time. But I don't pretend to know better than the admins how this site runs -- if it isn't causing a problem, and it's something people enjoy, then there isn't a good reason for Games to be cut.

santaslittlehelper
February 20th, 2009, 06:57 PM
[I'm speaking here only for myself and not on behalf of the staff]

I wasn't privy to any of the discussions regarding the closing of Other OS Talk, but I agree that the Community Cafe Games section is pretty useless and should be pruned as well.

As for the suggestion that we're trying to discourage people from leaving Ubuntu, I don't see how you can possibly defend that position, seeing as how many of the staff and admin use other Linux distros (or even *gasp* Mac OS X or Windows).

As a matter of fact, if our main goal were to keep you here, it would be in our best interests to keep the Other OS Talk here instead of encouraging users of other distros to go to other distros' forums.

PrimoTurbo, I don't think your conspiracy theories should be given any credence, and it's actually personally insulting that you would call people liars who do not agree with you.

On a personal note, I'm a bit sad the Other OS Talk section has been closed (though if it's sucking up resources, I understand why). One of the things I love about our forums is the friendliness here, and the fact that even Windows users would sometimes get better support for Windows problems on the Ubuntu Forums than on some Windows forums. That, to me, represents the true spirit of Ubuntu.

I just just have to say I agree with this.

cmay
February 20th, 2009, 07:29 PM
i never used the games but have used the other OS talk. i will miss it. i have very big trouble getting accounts because of those captchas and registration formalities so i cant get an account at debian forums. even that i tried many times i still not have gotten the passwords and the captchas right at the same time so to me it was a loss of the opportunity to have a debian forum at hand to ask when i needed.

i have however asked my brother to help get those accounts at other linux distributions forums i use and will use those and as long as i use ubuntu for my laptop and asus eeepc i will stick around the forums.

Erik Trybom
February 20th, 2009, 09:21 PM
I regularly visit forums were forum games are not allowed and they work just fine. You simply close threads with low discussion value or lots of spam.

I liked the other OS talk, but while I don't agree with the decision to close it I definitely support the administrators' right to decide. Their forum, their rules. What I don't understand is why Canonical cannot provide some servers for the forum staff - the forums are an official support channel for Ubuntu after all.

The reason for the closure is what bugs me the most. This is 2009, and hardware is dirt cheap. It is my belief that no web site should ever have to cut an active part of the site due to hardware issues.

bapoumba
February 20th, 2009, 09:35 PM
@ Erik Trybom: admins have been working hard, very hard, on the databases issues for a long time, along with Canonical sysadmins. Choices have been made, choices that included many parameters. I do not know all the details, but one important thing is I trust them. They are very good at what they do.

NintendoTogepi
February 20th, 2009, 09:40 PM
I heard large threads are a drain on the server. A different, very active V bulletin board that I go to discovered this, apparently. They deleted all threads over 15 pages and now it's much faster and the server has much less strain.

Consider the same here.

bapoumba
February 20th, 2009, 09:47 PM
I heard large threads are a drain on the server. A different, very active V bulletin board that I go to discovered this, apparently. They deleted all threads over 15 pages and now it's much faster and the server has much less strain.

Consider the same here.

As far as I understand it, here the query pulls only the number of posts per page that you have setup in your user CP. Long threads are not more of a drain than a 2 pages one.

Erik Trybom
February 20th, 2009, 09:59 PM
@bapoumba: OK, thanks for the info. As I said, I have the deepest respect for the forum staff and I'm sure everyone's working for the best of the Ubuntu community.

bapoumba
February 20th, 2009, 10:01 PM
Thanks Erik, I am sure they will appreciate :)

jimi_hendrix
February 20th, 2009, 11:00 PM
so your saying that you want our section of the forum closed down because your section was closed down...

i just read first post...so i probably missed a lot

handy
February 21st, 2009, 12:52 AM
My my my, look at the responses to this.

I guess there really isn't any point in continuing this, since one cannot effectively argue with another when neither party shares any (or at least a sufficient amount of) either common reference or common ground. I'm sorry, but I find myself unable to accept the circumstances of this board as they are presented. I kindly thank those who have thus far participated, user and admin alike, for their contributions.

I don't know whether you have read it before, or if it has been posted again in here or not?

But the games section is actually a part of the Community Cafe, it has just been separated to keep the Cafe tidier, & exists because it has apparently been found that they will keep popping up anyway.

They don't place a search strain on the server, so they are not a problem, no matter how many posts exist in the games section, as storage is not the issue here.

handy
February 21st, 2009, 12:57 AM
On a personal note, I'm a bit sad the Other OS Talk section has been closed (though if it's sucking up resources, I understand why). One of the things I love about our forums is the friendliness here, and the fact that even Windows users would sometimes get better support for Windows problems on the Ubuntu Forums than on some Windows forums. That, to me, represents the true spirit of Ubuntu.

We who regularly used the OOST sub-forum had formed a kind of mini-community. We have over an extended period grown to like each other & communicating on the common interest topics that fit within that forum.

Community is such a valuable quality & unfortunately there is far too little of it these days in so many people's lives.

Mazza558
February 21st, 2009, 01:09 AM
The most logical and practical solution IMO:

- Cut out the bulk of community games threads. Cut out all but the first post so that they can start again. Create a script that auto-clears this section once a week.
- Bring back Other OS talk to support those who know multiple OSs. However, I think the tech support aspect of OS talk should be dropped. Turn it into a "cafe" of sorts where people can talk in general about other OSs.

maybeway36
February 21st, 2009, 02:46 AM
The thing I liked about Other OS Talk was it was a nice place to show everyone some new light distro you found and say "Have you tried this yet?"

Raffles10
February 21st, 2009, 02:53 AM
Having read many of the discussions about the closure of OOST I still can't help feeling that UF admin had ulterior motives for removing it. Reading between the lines of some of the admin posts it seems that they were not happy that so many people wanted to discuss OOS.

If it is purely a question of bandwidth, leaving cafe games open and closing OOST is illogical. The result of course is that many knowledgeable people, exactly the sort of people who could assist others who are new to Ubuntu & Linux will leave and go elsewhere, hardly the best way to build a community.

This is of course better for places like LinuxQuestions & Linuxforums.org, which is very generous of UF, maybe they should close UF completely and these other forums will benefit even more.;-)

click4851
February 21st, 2009, 03:20 AM
I curiuous to see how many violations come from this thread alone.....thinks to himself "(I know theres the mythical CoC but it seems so random, so arbitrary.....is it the mention of a particular distro that triggers it, or the mention of an ulterior motive? Maybe its the tone? It could be the not helpful part? but how helpful is word association? are opinions supposed to be helpful? who decides whats helpful? Can I judge it it to be not helpful, what if someone feels it is helpful? Was Pink Ponies helpful, I suppose that depends on who you are and what your motives are? are having motives a violation, what about hurt feelings? can the lack of community be a violation? is that a failure of due diligence?)" .....oh boy my head hurts....:).

BuffaloX
February 21st, 2009, 03:56 AM
I didn't use other OS talk much myself, but I figure it had some function that also benefit Ubuntu.
If suddenly 100 people write some other OS is extremely great because it has this cool feature or way of doing something, it will have a greater chance of getting many suggestions for inclusion in the next version of Ubuntu.

I see from admin answers that many considerations were taken into account before removing Other OS talk, and that there will be almost zero benefit from removing Cafe Games. and I really don't see any valid reason not to trust those responses.

What is the lifetime of threads? Should old threads be deleted?
Personally I don't see old threads as very useful.
They will often recommend obsolete methods, programs and packages, and sometimes cause as much problems as help.

Admins have probably already considered this, just want to make sure. :p

Skripka
February 21st, 2009, 04:01 AM
I didn't use other OS talk much myself, but I figure it had some function that also benefit Ubuntu.
If suddenly 100 people write some other OS is extremely great because it has this cool feature or way of doing something, it will have a greater chance of getting many suggestions for inclusion in the next version of Ubuntu.

I see from admin answers that many considerations were taken into account before removing Other OS talk, and that there will be almost zero benefit from removing Cafe Games. and I really don't see any valid reason not to trust those responses.

What is the lifetime of threads? Should old threads be deleted?
Personally I don't see old threads as very useful.
They will often recommend obsolete methods, programs and packages, and sometimes cause as much problems as help.

Admins have probably already considered this, just want to make sure. :p

Well, the problem isn't the storage of threads, but the indexing and searching of them. Of course, I don;t honestly know how many beyond-out-of-date tutorials there are here.

That being said, OOST woulda been nice for me personally in the last few days moving over from *Buntu based system, and not having to jump off to other forums for enlightenment, or pollute threads in the cafe for support-when someone who might know posts regularly here-and might miss it in the labyrinth of other sub-forums.

Sorivenul
February 21st, 2009, 05:54 AM
If it is purely a question of bandwidth, leaving cafe games open and closing OOST is illogical. The result of course is that many knowledgeable people, exactly the sort of people who could assist others who are new to Ubuntu & Linux will leave and go elsewhere, hardly the best way to build a community.
Read back in this thread and some of the others related to the closing of OOST.

To summarize the information again:
The forums are currently running on a single server, OOST was an indexed forum, Cafe Games is not. In general terms, the difference is that the indexed forums put more strain on the server, which explains the part of the reasoning behind removing OOST and not Cafe Games. Also, remember that the the release of Jaunty is coming soon and that means more new members, more posts (in indexed forums), and thus more server strain, and more problems for the administrators/moderators. In this sense, it was also a sort of preemptive protection action.

As far as the closing of OOST sending knowledgeable folks off to the far reaches of the universe, I don't believe this is the case. Most of us are over in nOOST (see my signature). Myself included, many of us OOST regulars still post here on UF. I just posted a new testimonial last night, and am still browsing and assisting in ABT, GH, and Programming Talk.

kevdog
February 21st, 2009, 09:07 AM
Although I understand the hardware limitations, in my opinion its total BS that Canonical can't supply you with adequate servers. The forums put the face to Ubuntu and reciprocally divert business back to Canonical. Its total garbage that Shuttleworth can't donate servers for this enterprise! If he can pay for a moon flight, he can certainly afford to pay for decent and redundant servers and full time staff under the direction of UG of course!!

Luke has no name
February 21st, 2009, 09:10 AM
I still can't understand the closing.

--Extreme reductions could have been made in the length of time a post remains on the board before being purged.

--Games could have been trimmed.

--Pre-hardy archives, if they still exist, could be dropped. Forums are primarily a place for current issues; pre-hardy releases are outdated for those discussions.

For a community that prides itself on openness, the discussion leading to "Other OS Talk" closing was incredibly close-minded. It IS (not was) a terrible decision. This hampers the ability for users to help each other with non-ubuntu distros, no matter what less effective hotfixes (the [other_os] tag) you have in store.

Administrators could have let users in on the decision before the day it was executed, rather than spring it on us, then acting as if the decision is irreversible. (Protip: It isn't).

Luke has no name
February 21st, 2009, 09:12 AM
A little off topic: I know this doesn't affect the database, but trim the whitespace out of the source, and you might save a bundle on server bandwidth.

Luke has no name
February 21st, 2009, 09:14 AM
Although I understand the hardware limitations, in my opinion its total BS that Canonical can't supply you with adequate servers. The forums put the face to Ubuntu and reciprocally divert business back to Canonical. Its total garbage that Shuttleworth can't donate servers for this enterprise! If he can pay for a moon flight, he can certainly afford to pay for decent and redundant servers and full time staff under the direction of UG of course!!

I promise I'm not trying to be a post *****.

I don't think it's his personal obligation to supply us with servers. However, I don't believe that CANONICAL can't toss another server or two UF's way, especially since this is essentially the official public Ubuntu forum. I wouldn't have thought it that hard to find some resources to help this site out.