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Onoskelis
February 19th, 2009, 04:00 AM
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257&from=rss

Apparently Windows 7 will degrade the audio quality of your soundcard if you attempt to record any audio originating from your PC. It also disables any software that might be "pirated" or illegal.

Scary stuff.

gymophett
February 19th, 2009, 04:02 AM
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257&from=rss

Apparently Windows 7 will degrade the audio quality of your soundcard if you attempt to record any audio originating from your PC. It also disables any software that might be "pirated" or illegal.

Scary stuff.

Oh. Scary.
Oh well, I will always have Ubuntu :D

I-75
February 19th, 2009, 04:07 AM
All I can say is, I guess they haven't learned from the Vista debacle. They are only hurting themselves with this DRM nonsense.

Giant Speck
February 19th, 2009, 04:13 AM
I can already imagine what the next ten pages of this thread are going to look like:

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

TBOL3
February 19th, 2009, 04:23 AM
Nope, you forgot a few moans, grumbles, and a few people passing out.

cmat
February 19th, 2009, 04:24 AM
It's kind of a big deal that they are doing things like this. However, DRM in Vista for the most part hasn't been intrusive.

igknighted
February 19th, 2009, 04:34 AM
GASP... you mean if you don't do anything illegal you wont be bothered?

This can only help linux... the more people think of software as a free right because they pirate it with impunity, the less appealing free software is. If microsoft makes them follow the rules, people will start to realize how limiting they really are.

Rokurosv
February 19th, 2009, 04:37 AM
I think people should take a look at this:
http://www.osnews.com/story/21002/Resorting_to_FUD_Hurts_the_Alternatives_to_Microso ft

Dr. C
February 19th, 2009, 04:38 AM
There is really nothing new here. The DRM is Windows 7 is just a continuation of the DRM in Windows Vista, likely worse, and this is as good time as ever to review Peter Gutmann's 2 year old excellent article on the evils of DRM in Windows Vista since it all also applies to Windows 7.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Gramps
February 19th, 2009, 04:44 AM
What's Windows 7? :-)

TBOL3
February 19th, 2009, 04:46 AM
Umm.. @ignited, I don't care about DRM preventing me from doing illegal stuff, but this DRM prevents me from doing legal stuff. I like to podcast (yes I suck at it), but I want to do interviews over skype. This would make it very difficult to do it in windows, as I won't be able to catch audio streams.

And yes, I know they had it in vista, but I was hoping that they were going to take it out, I guess not.

Dr. C
February 19th, 2009, 04:47 AM
What's Windows 7? :-)

The successor to Windows Vista now in beta

igknighted
February 19th, 2009, 04:47 AM
If you really want to be frightened by the future of computing, read this:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9497

Onoskelis
February 19th, 2009, 04:56 AM
If you really want to be frightened by the future of computing, read this:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9497


That article made me laugh due to the sheer absurdity of it.

Take off the tinfoil hats, kids.

wolfen69
February 19th, 2009, 05:02 AM
I think people should take a look at this:
http://www.osnews.com/story/21002/Resorting_to_FUD_Hurts_the_Alternatives_to_Microso ft

it may be FUD somewhat, but it just goes to show how free we are as linux users to go under the hood and do as we please. i will not be told what i can and can't do.

swoll1980
February 19th, 2009, 05:06 AM
That article made me laugh due to the sheer absurdity of it.

Take off the tinfoil hats, kids.

+1 what would be the motivation for hardware companies to stop building standard desktops, and laptops, and even if they did some other company would see the huge potential in building IBM compatible machines, and pick up where the others left off. Software companies would love this because it would virtually eliminate lost revenues from pirating, but that's for the sheep that blindly follow. Us Linux users will be unaffected by such nonsense.

cmat
February 19th, 2009, 07:14 AM
+1 what would be the motivation for hardware companies to stop building standard desktops, and laptops, and even if they did some other company would see the huge potential in building IBM compatible machines, and pick up where the others left off.

Why would they care? The client systems will still need some hardware to run and server side would be a gold mine for them. Online desktop environments don't seem to far off given the current rate of development.

swoll1980
February 19th, 2009, 08:17 AM
Why would they care? The client systems will still need some hardware to run and server side would be a gold mine for them. Online desktop environments don't seem to far off given the current rate of development.

Because it leaves a huge whole in the market. Anyone with half a brain would start selling PCs to fill this hole. It's supply, and demand. As long as there is a demand for PCs someone out their will manufacture them.

Trail
February 19th, 2009, 08:39 AM
Rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble

phrostbyte
February 19th, 2009, 08:40 AM
I think people should take a look at this:
http://www.osnews.com/story/21002/Resorting_to_FUD_Hurts_the_Alternatives_to_Microso ft

It might be FUD, but his title is lame. Anti-Microsoft FUD hurts Microsoft. Just like anti-Linux FUD hurts Linux.

shatteredmindofbob
February 19th, 2009, 08:51 AM
Good Lord! It's a DRIVER ISSUE in a BETA version! It's not even DRM...if you have the correct audio driver, you just need to go to Control Panel and enable the additional input.

Or use Audacity.

Geez, I thought this place was better than this...

graabein
February 19th, 2009, 11:40 AM
On the subject of personal computing there's much going on inside of Vista and Windows 7 that's out of the user's control. If this is "news" or not don't change that fact. With Linux the source is open so you (or more likely your chosen distro) know more of what's going on.

I think it's just stupid downgrading the seriousness of violating people's rights just because it has fallen off the front page of Digg or whatever.

Bachstelze
February 19th, 2009, 11:44 AM
GASP... you mean if you don't do anything illegal you wont be bothered?

You might find this (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565) interesting.

igknighted
February 19th, 2009, 12:07 PM
You might find this (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998565) interesting.

I agree with the sentiment there, sure... but I agree with it in the terms of "I don't have anything to hide, so here google, read all my email". Clearly even if I have done nothing wrong that could be a problem. But a copyrighted music or video stream? I am totally OK with that. I'll vote with my dollars and buy from sources that let me use it how I want to (or just buy CDs, as I don't trust hard drives).

And if Adobe or Microsoft want to force people to actually pay for their software, well I am greatly in favor of that. If you don't pay for it, don't use it. If people realized the cost of the software they pirate and had to buy it, I think they would have a lot more interest in free alternatives (OO.o/GIMP/Linux), which would help those projects improve greatly.

CrazyArcher
February 19th, 2009, 12:38 PM
I don't see anything morally illegitimate in preventing people from playing pirated content. However, if bugs in the system make it affect those who use only legal software/media - there's a problem here.

Bachstelze
February 19th, 2009, 01:48 PM
And if Adobe or Microsoft want to force people to actually pay for their software, well I am greatly in favor of that.

The thing is how they are going to enforce that. So far, all the measures that have been taken to prevent people who didn't pay for software from using it have invaded the privacy of all users alike. For example, you have applications that "phone home" when you install them. Alledgedly, they only send data that is used to check whether it's a genuine copy or not, but nodody knows what they actually do.

geoken
February 19th, 2009, 02:56 PM
And here we see how FUD spreads.

We're on to page three of a thread based on information that was not only completely unfounded, but totally de-bunked on the first page, yet people are still making comments as if the story is true. Inevitably, people will miss that single post which completely debunks this story, and walk away from this thread thinking the first post is completely correct, at which point they'll go forth and further perpetuate the stereotype of preachy Linux users who take great amounts of liberty with their 'facts'.

For the record, Win7 does nothing to stop you from replacing amtlib.dll. The posters inability to do so comes from errors he made.

graabein
February 19th, 2009, 03:36 PM
Maybe the original poster would care to update the first post with that additional information? Might as well I say!

lukjad007
February 19th, 2009, 03:45 PM
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257&from=rss

Apparently Windows 7 will degrade the audio quality of your soundcard if you attempt to record any audio originating from your PC. It also disables any software that might be "pirated" or illegal.

Scary stuff.
Well... I guess I'll just stick to Ubuntu then. :D

Kopachris
February 19th, 2009, 04:22 PM
Okay, Windows 7 is not getting within 20 feet of either of my computers.

TheLions
February 19th, 2009, 04:34 PM
Rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble


:lolflag::lolflag:

yse
February 19th, 2009, 04:38 PM
I am a developer, and all i can say is that any intellectual property copy protection is more that welcome.

shatteredmindofbob
February 19th, 2009, 04:51 PM
And here we see how FUD spreads.

We're on to page three of a thread based on information that was not only completely unfounded, but totally de-bunked on the first page, yet people are still making comments as if the story is true. Inevitably, people will miss that single post which completely debunks this story, and walk away from this thread thinking the first post is completely correct, at which point they'll go forth and further perpetuate the stereotype of preachy Linux users who take great amounts of liberty with their 'facts'.

For the record, Win7 does nothing to stop you from replacing amtlib.dll. The posters inability to do so comes from errors he made.

I am beginning to question why I spend time here. I used to like this place because it didn't have the same level of blind Microsoft bashing as other FOSS discussion boards, but it seems I may have been too hasty in making that conclusion...

Giant Speck
February 19th, 2009, 05:41 PM
And here we see how FUD spreads.

We're on to page three of a thread based on information that was not only completely unfounded, but totally de-bunked on the first page, yet people are still making comments as if the story is true. Inevitably, people will miss that single post which completely debunks this story, and walk away from this thread thinking the first post is completely correct, at which point they'll go forth and further perpetuate the stereotype of preachy Linux users who take great amounts of liberty with their 'facts'.

For the record, Win7 does nothing to stop you from replacing amtlib.dll. The posters inability to do so comes from errors he made.

Well, a lot of people don't take the time to read the actual thread. They read the OP's post and the link they provide (some don't even get as far as the title!) and they post their reaction.

You could say the President is dead, and have it debunked on the very first page, but there will still be people clear into the third and fourth pages reacting to "the President is dead" instead of "the OP is posting nonsense."

karellen
February 19th, 2009, 05:59 PM
Slashdot, yes, that's a reliable source (sarcasm) :lolflag:
I use Windows 7 and I encounter no problems with sound recording

ticopelp
February 19th, 2009, 06:03 PM
I won't be using Windows 7 regardless, so I'm not too worried about it. The specter of broken technologies like this is why I switched to Ubuntu in the first place.

Therion
February 19th, 2009, 06:09 PM
Apparently Windows 7 will degrade the audio quality of your soundcard if you attempt to record any audio originating from your PC.
It also disables any software that might be "pirated" or illegal.

I'm sorry... I can't hear Windows 7 over the deafening roar of my distro-hopping.

lukjad007
February 19th, 2009, 07:00 PM
Heehee

Roberticus
February 19th, 2009, 07:42 PM
Slashdot, yes, that's a reliable source (sarcasm) :lolflag:
I use Windows 7 and I encounter no problems with sound recording
Same here :) dual booting with Vista, and no problems with sound and/or video quality. People should learn to be more 'critique' when they read "sensational" news.

Slashdot article: Pure FUD. End of story.

hask
February 19th, 2009, 07:48 PM
Apparently Windows 7 will degrade the audio quality of your soundcard if you attempt to record any audio originating from your PC.

Holy #@~+ [-X

ELD
February 19th, 2009, 07:49 PM
I think people should take a look at this:
http://www.osnews.com/story/21002/Resorting_to_FUD_Hurts_the_Alternatives_to_Microso ft

QFT, you people shouldn't listen to every peice of crap you hear.

Zenze
February 19th, 2009, 07:56 PM
This can only help linux... the more people think of software as a free right because they pirate it with impunity, the less appealing free software is. If microsoft makes them follow the rules, people will start to realize how limiting they really are.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

jjpcexpert
February 19th, 2009, 08:10 PM
I am a developer, and all i can say is that any intellectual property copy protection is more that welcome.
if i was i would'nt

hask
February 19th, 2009, 08:16 PM
I had discovered that audacity would not record the sound card a long time ago in vista

cmat
February 19th, 2009, 08:22 PM
if i was i would'nt

It protects their assets and secures their jobs. Many developers see FOSS as a threat to their careers.

jenkinbr
February 19th, 2009, 09:01 PM
Here's my opinion on DRM:

DRM stands for
Digital Rights Management, and was created by
Dumb Retarded Monkeys.

In reality, DRM is overly "Manageing", and is very annoying. I see why it was created, but despise it's implimentation.

Pumalite
February 19th, 2009, 10:30 PM
I just don't like Microsoft. I'll never use it's stuff.
Of course; I'm not a gamer and I'm quiet content with Linux

pirate_tux
February 21st, 2009, 04:43 AM
I am beginning to question why I spend time here. I used to like this place because it didn't have the same level of blind Microsoft bashing as other FOSS discussion boards, but it seems I may have been too hasty in making that conclusion...

Please don't try to deny the facts...

Windoze is crap, pure crap... It's bloatware, bugware, nagware and spyware! It's only a big virus you know.

pirate_tux
February 21st, 2009, 04:44 AM
Here's my opinion on DRM:

DRM stands for
Digital Rights Management, and was created by
Dumb Retarded Monkeys.

In reality, DRM is overly "Manageing", and is very annoying. I see why it was created, but despise it's implimentation.

Dumb Retarded Monkeys... lol I agree.
Great post.

Giant Speck
February 21st, 2009, 06:17 AM
Please don't try to deny the facts...

Windoze is crap, pure crap... It's bloatware, bugware, nagware and spyware! It's only a big virus you know.

Wow, if that wasn't a totally unjustified statement, I must not know what one is!

toupeiro
February 21st, 2009, 07:52 AM
It protects their assets and secures their jobs. Many developers see FOSS as a threat to their careers.

Many developers don't get FOSS, otherwise they'd see they can still stand to make a lot of money developing FOSS.

swoll1980
February 21st, 2009, 08:02 AM
Please don't try to deny the facts...

Windoze is crap, pure crap... It's bloatware, bugware, nagware and spyware! It's only a big virus you know.

This is not a fact, this is your opinion, which you are free to have. Windows XP is a great OS. It's fast, stable, and compatible with almost everything. I personally prefer Ubuntu, but XP is a close second.

swoll1980
February 21st, 2009, 08:05 AM
Many developers don't get FOSS, otherwise they'd see they can still stand to make a lot of money developing FOSS.

The problem with FOSS is if you create some great program, and try to sell it, someone will just repackage it, and give it away for free. Of course with pirating, and the way it's going, I guess there's not much of a difference.

Methuselah
February 21st, 2009, 08:18 AM
Right now, this is like hearing about a volcanic eruption on Mars.
Fascinating, but irrelevant since MS lost this one a year or two ago. :)

karellen
February 21st, 2009, 08:18 AM
Wow, if that wasn't a totally unjustified statement, I must not know what one is!

dont't try to argue with pirate_tux. he's cute and charming, in his own way ;)

Golem XIV
February 21st, 2009, 02:41 PM
Heh, this place is looking more like /. every day. Nobody reads TFA any more :p

First, I couldn't find a link to the original story (if there is any) for more information, so I'm limited to what the /. digest says:

- The guy hacked a DLL and it wouldn't work? Now that's strange. What DLL? What changes? Based on what does he assume it was DRM and not just a hacking error the cause of Photoshop not working?

- The soundcard problem could be because of Beta drivers (though 7 is supposed to use Vista drivers with no problem), but we don't know if the drivers behaved the same in Vista, we don't know what kind of sound card it is (there are several mass-produced, built-in sound cards that are simply too weak for full duplex), etc.

- As for the permissions, it has been covered in the replies to TFA. Read all the way down.

Look, I'm far from being a fan of Microsoft, but IMO this article can be taken at best as a starting point for further research, and only when the real Windows 7 Beta (meaning the released version) comes out.

Kopachris
February 21st, 2009, 06:47 PM
- The guy hacked a DLL and it wouldn't work? Now that's strange. What DLL? What changes? Based on what does he assume it was DRM and not just a hacking error the cause of Photoshop not working?
He wasn't allowed to remove the hacked DLL. That's what makes him assume it was DRM. It might be DRM, it might not be.


The problem with FOSS is if you create some great program, and try to sell it, someone will just repackage it, and give it away for free. Of course with pirating, and the way it's going, I guess there's not much of a difference.
Most licenses that are considered "open-source" don't really allow you to sell it. If you're looking to sell a program, don't release the source code! Now, if you're talking about creating a FOSS project, then someone ripping it off to create a new FOSS project, that usually doesn't happen. Generally, open-source developers develop for pleasure, and are usually more honest with each other.


This is not a fact, this is your opinion, which you are free to have. Windows XP is a great OS. It's fast, stable, and compatible with almost everything. I personally prefer Ubuntu, but XP is a close second.
Compatible with almost everything? How many times do you have to go hunt down drivers?

MellonCollie
February 21st, 2009, 07:38 PM
He wasn't allowed to remove the hacked DLL. That's what makes him assume it was DRM. It might be DRM, it might not be.

It has nothing to do with DRM.


The one about the "local settings" folder is also interesting, as it shows a clear lack of knowledge on Windows: Windows Vista and Windows 7 do not have a "local settings" folder. It's in AppDataLocal now - the old "local settings" folder is just an NTFS junction now, and since Explorer can't handle these very well (bad Explorer!), will give you an access denied message.

http://www.osnews.com/story/21002/Resorting_to_FUD_Hurts_the_Alternatives_to_Microso ft

ELD
February 21st, 2009, 07:41 PM
Compatible with almost everything? How many times do you have to go hunt down drivers?

I think what he means is that there ARE drivers for anything that is out where as for Linux there isn't, if there are a lot of them only partially work in Linux. But for windows you can garuntee what you buy will have a driver since it will be designed mainly for it.

Although that situation is always improving, the latest nvidia drivers are proof of that :D

Kopachris
February 21st, 2009, 07:54 PM
I think what he means is that there ARE drivers for anything that is out where as for Linux there isn't, if there are a lot of them only partially work in Linux. But for windows you can garuntee what you buy will have a driver since it will be designed mainly for it.

Although that situation is always improving, the latest nvidia drivers are proof of that :D
I personally count compatibility as out-of-the-box, in which case Linux and OS X win. If you count compatibility as the ability to make it compatible, then Windows only wins because a lot of people use it. Currently, the only compatibility problem I have is ATI's crappy Radeon driver and DRI. Other than the OpenGL window flickering problem, I have no out-of-the-box compatibility problems whatsoever with Ubuntu. My wifi card works, my video card (mostly) works, my audio works, etc. No processor, motherboard, or chipset drivers to download or update manually. The OpenGL flickering is easily ignored since I don't play many games, and since the only 3D games I do play are played in full-screen (Extreme Tux Racer, Alien Arena, etc.). My USB ports keep dying, but that's just because I have an old computer and my mobo is dying...

ELD
February 21st, 2009, 08:14 PM
Your right about the out-of-the-box ubuntu beats the heck out of XP and makes it easier to install drivers for graphics and such.

yse
February 21st, 2009, 08:24 PM
Your right about the out-of-the-box ubuntu beats the heck out of XP and makes it easier to install drivers for graphics and such.

You only seen or hear about XP?

Vista?

Windows 7?

... again, strange how you compare Ubuntu with XP.

billgoldberg
February 21st, 2009, 09:22 PM
I've used "hacked dll's" on Windows 7 and didn't experience anything like that.

murman
February 21st, 2009, 09:35 PM
You only seen or hear about XP?

Vista?

Windows 7?

... again, strange how you compare Ubuntu with XP.


Well some people regard XP and Gnome as "last gen" and Vista/KDE4/Win7 as "next gen" :o

yse
February 21st, 2009, 09:38 PM
Well some people regard XP and Gnome as "last gen" and Vista/KDE4/Win7 as "next gen" :o

amazing...

Kopachris
February 21st, 2009, 10:34 PM
Well some people regard XP and Gnome as "last gen" and Vista/KDE4/Win7 as "next gen" :o
lol, Windows 7 actually looks a lot like GNOME with a semi-transparent task bar...

clear_runway
October 27th, 2009, 12:15 AM
7's drm probably wont be any harder to beat than vistas. and I know how to beat vistas already.

MasterNetra
October 27th, 2009, 12:22 AM
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257&from=rss

Apparently Windows 7 will degrade the audio quality of your soundcard if you attempt to record any audio originating from your PC. It also disables any software that might be "pirated" or illegal.

Scary stuff.

hmm have i win7 for my windows partition and it hasn't done any of this... Well I don't know about the pirated stuff of course...and of course I'm not using a "special" version of it of course. :-\"

BarfBag
October 27th, 2009, 12:25 AM
hmm have i win7 for my windows partition and it hasn't done any of this... Well I don't know about the pirated stuff of course...and of course I'm not using a "special" version of it of course. :-\"

Wow.

MasterNetra
October 27th, 2009, 12:29 AM
What? there were people who got it early that weren't pirates. Besides I had grabbed the RC and Key when it was available.

Groucho Marxist
October 27th, 2009, 12:35 AM
All I can say is, I guess they haven't learned from the Vista debacle. They are only hurting themselves with this DRM nonsense.

Too true; I'll stick with my (in terms of media) DRM CDs and DRM-free Ubuntu, thank you.

earthpigg
October 27th, 2009, 12:39 AM
It's kind of a big deal that they are doing things like this. However, DRM in Vista for the most part hasn't been intrusive.

i strongly disagree - it was intrusive enough to get me to put the Ubuntu LiveCD in my new computer for the first time.

a friend had given it to me a year earlier, and it sat in my junk drawer for all that time... until Vista.

At the time, I was moving to a new country every 12 months. Needless to say, my legally purchased DVD collection was from several different region codes. The Vista workaround, of course, is to use VLC... but i was pissed that something so basic should need a workaround.

JillSwift
October 27th, 2009, 12:55 AM
i strongly disagree - it was intrusive enough to get me to put the Ubuntu LiveCD in my new computer for the first time.

a friend had given it to me a year earlier, and it sat in my junk drawer for all that time... until Vista.

At the time, I was moving to a new country every 12 months. Needless to say, my legally purchased DVD collection was from several different region codes. The Vista workaround, of course, is to use VLC... but i was pissed that something so basic should need a workaround.
Heh. Vista's built in support for DRM was the last straw for me as well.

DRM is a corporation saying "We assume you are a criminal." Any DRM is too much.

kevdog
October 27th, 2009, 12:58 AM
Im curious about recording audio through the audio card? Has anyone actually tried to do this and can confirm that quality is downgraded?

JillSwift
October 27th, 2009, 01:14 AM
Im curious about recording audio through the audio card? Has anyone actually tried to do this and can confirm that quality is downgraded?
I'd bet vital portions of my anatomy that if that was ever true to start with, it is no longer so.

steveneddy
October 27th, 2009, 01:14 AM
Freedom. FREEDOM!

Giant Speck
October 27th, 2009, 01:19 AM
Freedom. FREEDOM!

I can smell the HOPE!

Wait... wrong episode.

mamamia88
October 27th, 2009, 01:32 AM
if this is true it's just bs

kevdog
October 27th, 2009, 01:33 AM
I like this thread, but can someone for christ sakes with vista actually try to confirm the rumors, insinuations, and FUD contained in this thread and quit the juvenile fanboy freedom talk.

KiwiNZ
October 27th, 2009, 01:37 AM
I like this thread, but can someone for christ sakes with vista actually try to confirm the rumors, insinuations, and FUD contained in this thread and quit the juvenile fanboy freedom talk.

on that note a cool off is in order

closed for at least 24 hours