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View Full Version : Poll: Other OS Talk, Good Decision or Bad ?



Raffles10
February 17th, 2009, 11:08 PM
A forum is a place to bring people together to exchange ideas & opinions for the benefit of all. Does the closure of the Other OS Talk sub-forum benefit all ?

sports fan Matt
February 17th, 2009, 11:09 PM
the poll is missing.

kelvin spratt
February 17th, 2009, 11:16 PM
I think other os talk is part and parcel of the forum and keeps people that have moved on in touch with Ubuntu Many won't bother with this forum or contribute anymore,

smartboyathome
February 17th, 2009, 11:22 PM
This poll won't change anything, you know, and will likely be closed.

era86
February 17th, 2009, 11:36 PM
Just to comment, removing it will not benefit the forum, but it doesn't hurt the forum either.

ghindo
February 17th, 2009, 11:36 PM
This poll won't change anything, you know, and will likely be closed..

Raffles10
February 17th, 2009, 11:37 PM
This poll won't change anything, you know, and will likely be closed.

Maybe so, but it might indicate how many people are affected by this decision. Ubuntu was my first introduction to Linux and since then I've tried many other distributions, it's a natural progression that I expect most Ubuntu users have followed. So now we talk about Ubuntu but not the others ? Doesn't that close off a large part of our experiences with Linux ?

By trying other OS's we learn more about Linux and sharing that increased knowledge here is surely a benefit to all Ubuntu users.

RiceMonster
February 17th, 2009, 11:42 PM
Give it up already. It's not coming back, and it's not the end of the world either.

67GTA
February 17th, 2009, 11:45 PM
I just noticed this today. I was going to ask a question in the Debian sub forums. I don't use Ubuntu anymore, and now have no reason to come back to the forums. I only used the forums from time to time to discuss stuff in the Other OS forum.

binbash
February 17th, 2009, 11:47 PM
this poll won't change anything, you know, and will likely be closed.

+1

BGFG
February 17th, 2009, 11:52 PM
To echo Smartboy and Ricemonster. Please let this end. Admin did what they thought was best to keep the ONE server we have up. Unless someone has a cutting edge server lying around to donate or wants to stay up ungodly hours fixing a database for free, please... Lets act like big boys and girls and move on.

Consider the irony of losing sleep to fix a database and preserve posts taking pot-shots at your hard work. All so we can log in at our leisure an chat about an OS that has it own forum ?

Seriously People ?

Vince4Amy
February 17th, 2009, 11:53 PM
I chose yes by mistake, I thought it said Does Other OS Talk benefit the forum as a whole ? so don't count mine as a Yes and count it as a No.

I'm also not happy with the way both threads were closed regarding it.

As I've said before database isn't really an excuse because it will just get the threads posted in other areas, I did suggest however the sub categories in Other OS Talk were closed but the main one stay open, it really wouldn't be much of a problem. Perhaps Community Café or Games should have been considered to close before Other OS Talk.

aaaantoine
February 17th, 2009, 11:53 PM
I choose to vote "present". This move has its merits and flaws, and I am in no position to determine the net effect.

lukjad007
February 17th, 2009, 11:54 PM
Is there a "I don't really care because I never used it" option?

crimesaucer
February 17th, 2009, 11:55 PM
I haven't used an Ubuntu distro since August 2007..... The Community Cafe, Other OS, and Art & Design are the only sub-forums that I'm still active in.


I was most active in the Arch sub-forum.


All I know is that this sort of ruin's the Ubuntu Forum for me...... and even though I have been on Arch since August 2007..... I know I have answered posts and contributed to the forums in many ways since then. I have helped people with questions about both Arch and Ubuntu.....


But I can understand them not wanting to be a tech site for others..... I'll just spend more time in Arch now..... or I'll find somewhere else.

Simian Man
February 17th, 2009, 11:58 PM
I haven't used Ubuntu in a long time either. I think it's time to find a good general Linux forum.

crimesaucer
February 18th, 2009, 12:03 AM
I haven't used Ubuntu in a long time either. I think it's time to find a good general Linux forum.

I just don't want to lose my bean count..... look! I'm almost 1337!

(I actually had been 1337 and a few past it until the Arch posts got removed)

Vince4Amy
February 18th, 2009, 12:12 AM
I always used to the Other OS Talk forum mainly because Ubuntu got really crappy for me after 6.06. It was also good for new users to try different distros and the ATI Guide I made for OpenSuSE 11.1 got a lot of good attention.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1019712 - ATI on OpenSuSE

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1031208 - Slackware Custom Kernel Guide

Can no longer be updated which A lot of Ubuntu > SuSE users could have made good use of, thanks a lot.

samwyse
February 18th, 2009, 12:29 AM
This is the Ubuntu Forums for the benefit of Ubuntu. Enough said.

Sorivenul
February 18th, 2009, 12:39 AM
I put my two cents into the main "Sadly, OS Talk is Closed" thread started by handy. This poll will probably not change much. The administrators have said they are willing to include the subject of server load and Other OS Talk in the next Forum Council meeting. Technoviking has even been kind enough to put it on the official Agenda (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda). So, "Thank You" to the administrators for listening to us.

In general, I understand that our server, yes singular, is stressed. Other OS Talk was quite an active forum, which, while it is a testament to the users who frequented it, does add to the stress of the server. I personally think it was a mistake as far as the community is concerned, especially in regard to interaction, socialization, and true helpfulness. If they would be willing to restore Other OS Talk in the event of a server upgrade, I would be satisfied with that, but I do not expect them to restore it prior to that.

If you are looking for an alternative, the links posted in Other OS Talk are available, as is the Other Other OS Talk (see my signature).

super breadfish
February 18th, 2009, 12:46 AM
Terrible decision. It's a useful and important part of the forum.

Dr Small
February 18th, 2009, 12:47 AM
I cast my vote for No.

gn2
February 18th, 2009, 01:13 AM
The clue is in the url: ubuntuforums.org

The discussion of other operating systems can easily be done elsewhere on the interweb.

Removal of Other OS Talk is no loss.

init1
February 18th, 2009, 01:17 AM
First the Backyard, now this...

handy
February 18th, 2009, 04:34 AM
This poll won't change anything, you know, and will likely be closed.

I have a tiny candle of hope, that when the day comes when canonical? cough up & there is a strong server for the UF's that maybe the Other OS Talk sub-forum will return.

The problem is, that if it takes too long, it may be too late for the community to re-establish itself here.

Though if it continues to grow over at the new Other OS Talk forum, who knows what will happen?

handy
February 18th, 2009, 04:40 AM
Removal of Other OS Talk is no loss.

Not true, there are very knowledgeable people who have left the UF's because of the closure of the this sub-forum. These people had very high post counts, & helped out throughout the forum.

So there IS a loss, whether you notice it or not.



First the Backyard, now this...

Yes, for the regulars that participated in those two areas of the UF's it feels like the community heart keeps getting smaller.

& now today I find we have lost Mike - KiwiNZ.

What is going to happen to the UF's tomorrow?

swoll1980
February 18th, 2009, 04:44 AM
Is there a "I don't really care because I never used it" option?

I've never had to use a cath lab, but it's nice to now they're there for those that do use them. I think it's terrible, if a part of the forums had to go it should have been games.

swoll1980
February 18th, 2009, 04:47 AM
I have a tiny candle of hope, that when the day comes when canonical? cough up & there is a strong server for the UF's that maybe the Other OS Talk sub-forum will return.

The problem is, that if it takes too long, it may be too late for the community to re-establish itself here.

Though if it continues to grow over at the new Other OS Talk forum, who knows what will happen?

I think the Ubuntu project earned Mark like 35 million last year. You would think he could help out with this.

igknighted
February 18th, 2009, 05:38 AM
Just to comment, removing it will not benefit the forum, but it doesn't hurt the forum either.

I disagree... I know many here stick around to talk distros, and while they are here, provide valuable ubuntu support in the support areas. I think the support from those who have moved on to other distros but still lend a hand here will be greatly missed.

kagashe
February 18th, 2009, 05:45 AM
I learned to try other distributions on these forums and still learning and discover that there is nothing like Ubuntu and it is always the preferred choice on my machines.

However, I consider the decision as Bad.

kagashe

MikeTheC
February 18th, 2009, 06:01 AM
I think the plurality of OS discussions was a very good thing, simply because it allowed UF to be the cross-roads of many different groups of people who have always stood to gain from being meshed together. It was nice to know I could go and check things out about other OSs, or to help others who were coming in from different OSs. However, now it's gone, and I suppose I won't really lose any sleep over it.

Yet, to be honest, I really don't understand what this board's functional problems are. I mean, I've read and can understand how they've been dealing with issues of the database that back-ends this board, but then again, it doesn't really seem to wash with the experiences I've had at other high-traffic boards, namely MacRumors.com, Slashdot, Digg, SciFi.com, or even GalacticaBS.com.

It doesn't set well with me that a board ostensibly run and maintained by members of the "open source community" and lately now owned by one of the brightest-shining stars of the distro world can't seem to keep it's stuffing together. I've *never* been on a board with as much downtime as this one. For that matter, I've never been on a board which had as much sustained sluggishness as this board seems to develop on a regular basis.

I know the board software itself is actually commercial and proprietary. However, as mentioned above, none of the other boards I've used has had the sort of problems that this one does, and I doubt any of them use open-source message board software, if such a thing even exists. To my eyes, this is a really poor representation of what an open source community is or can be all about to people who are or may soon be at the point of switching from some other proprietary OS to an open-source one.

I really don't want to hear the howls of derision from the techno-rati of this board who'll try and make the case that this message board and Ubuntu have technologically nothing to do with another. It's like saying "My company has the best products and services, but pay no attention to my a-hole associates who will treat you rudely." This message board's functionality and durability directly reflect on Ubuntu, now especially since Canonical owns the board. They own it, they own the good and the bad of it, and it's about time they woke up to this fact.

Anyhow, this might seem like an unrelated rant, but it simply points to the fact that, evidently, they have to keep cutting back on what this board is about -- clipping it's wings, in effect -- just to keep it up and running at all. That not only doesn't impress me, it really does concern me. What's next? And, if one wants to make the argument that something like UF shouldn't be taken to represent a company like Canonical, then at what point should one's outward appurtenances start to reflect on oneself, or one's leadership? If Mark was willing to allow UF to be acquired, then he needs to be willing to put up and make it the ultimate board. If he and Canonical can't do that, then maybe they should have taken that into consideration before taking it over, and simply left it to be a "fan-run" board.

Keep cutting, guys, and soon there won't be a board for any of us to call home.

More than my 2˘.

ugm6hr
February 18th, 2009, 06:07 AM
I just noticed this today. I was going to ask a question in the Debian sub forums. I don't use Ubuntu anymore, and now have no reason to come back to the forums. I only used the forums from time to time to discuss stuff in the Other OS forum.

An alternative view of this is to consider that we (as an Ubuntu community) are depriving some of the other Linux communities from potentially experienced and helpful members by keeping non-Ubuntu users here with us.

So, perhaps you might like to consider this a potential gain for the Debian forum community rather than a personal loss?

Everyone realises that this change in forum structure will probably impact on our user base in a negative fashion, but the requirement to maintain a 24/7 community support forum for Ubuntu users is the primary concern.

I have little doubt there are plenty of newer, less vocal users who will have been feeling abandoned by the unexpected downtime of this forum over the past few weeks, and potentially left the Ubuntu community indefinitely as result. When the most important factor encouraging taking a step into the Linux world is community support (which it is for many first time Ubuntu dabblers), the potential lack of support for even an hour when you are struggling to get things to work can be hugely disappointing.

Hence, the question of whether this decision is good or bad is mute. It is necessary.

PS: I don't want to get into another recurring discussion about funding for new servers etc, since that is essentially pointless (I don't have any influence over anyone of significance).

bgs100
February 18th, 2009, 06:12 AM
Bad decision. Like others have said, we will lose the support of those who came for that part of the forums. And the forums just keep getting smaller and smaller. :(

MikeTheC
February 18th, 2009, 06:26 AM
In looking through some of the other, earlier posts -- and in re-reading my own -- I was suddenly struck by the appropriateness of a certain Babylon 5 quote. With apologies to JMS...



http://www.sf-radio.net/babylon5/charaktere/bilder/mollari.jpg

Keep it up, G'Kar, and soon you won't have a message board to chat on.


B5 FANS: Yes, I'm well aware the original version of the above-cited quote was actually spoken in Council Chambers aboard Babylon 5 and not in the gardens (and further, this still image was actually from a conversation Mollari had with Mr. Morden) but this photo was the best one I could find. Sorry.

sujoy
February 18th, 2009, 07:44 AM
An alternative view of this is to consider that we (as an Ubuntu community) are depriving some of the other Linux communities from potentially experienced and helpful members by keeping non-Ubuntu users here with us.

So, perhaps you might like to consider this a potential gain for the Debian forum community rather than a personal loss?
... [trimmed]


wow, great so only ubuntu users are welcome here henceforth. i could have understood that if the staff didnt took the pain to keep up with the different otherOS subforums for so long. now you made us believe that this was a linux forum where other distro users were welcome too, only to notify us later that we are no longer needed.

handy
February 18th, 2009, 09:48 AM
An alternative view of this is to consider that we (as an Ubuntu community) are depriving some of the other Linux communities from potentially experienced and helpful members by keeping non-Ubuntu users here with us.


It is possible to be using more than one forum simultaneously, whether it be sub-forums of the same forum or other completely separate forums. I do this often.

I don't think that the above argument is totally valid. Though It may have some merits, in that there will be the odd OOST regular who will spend more time in another forum than they would have previously.

From what I'm seeing over at the new OOST forum, there is a community of once regular users here, congregating, & that we obviously like each other, & like communicating with each other on the subjects that an Other OS Talk forum exists on.

The venue that has allowed this community feeling & participation to grow & exist; now having been suddenly removed from the Ubuntu forums (without warning), is what we, the members & participants of this sub-forum(community) are in the process of adapting to.

Hopefully the new OOST forum will garner enough new members to allow this once Ubuntu based community to survive & grow?

As usual, time will tell. ;)

super breadfish
February 18th, 2009, 11:11 AM
An alternative view of this is to consider that we (as an Ubuntu community) are depriving some of the other Linux communities from potentially experienced and helpful members by keeping non-Ubuntu users here with us.

Why stop there? Let's ban all non-Ubuntu members! After all, they aren't allowed a place to talk any more, and it help reduce load...


the requirement to maintain a 24/7 community support forum for Ubuntu users is the primary concern.

So how is giving the finger to a good number of users with general Linux knowledge going to help that goal? Most of the problems posted here are hardly that Ubuntu-specific.

samjh
February 18th, 2009, 11:23 AM
I voted Yes by mistake, as I liked the Other OS Talk forum and have used it occasionally to get advice when trying other distros.

It's unfortunate that it has been closed, but I also think that Ubuntuforums.org needs to trim down on the number of forums it has. It's very complex with all its numerous forums and sub-forums. Ultimately, I think the decision was necessary for the better maintenance of the discussion board at large.

init1
February 18th, 2009, 01:03 PM
Yes, for the regulars that participated in those two areas of the UF's it feels like the community heart keeps getting smaller.

& now today I find we have lost Mike - KiwiNZ.

What is going to happen to the UF's tomorrow?
It appears that KiwiNZ has chosen to stay for now


Following discussion with fellow staff members and changes that occurred after I posted this thread. ( I will not elaborate on that as it is confidential and involves others) I have for the time being withdrawn my resignation.

Still, I am a bit worried about the future of UF.

handy
February 18th, 2009, 01:51 PM
It appears that KiwiNZ has chosen to stay for now

That is excellent news for us & the forum. Hopefully Mike will remain happy with that decision.



Still, I am a bit worried about the future of UF.

There has certainly been plenty of regular community members voicing their disapproval lately.

Hopefully there will be a variation in the business plan for the UF's conceived in the next council meeting, as it is my understanding that the Other OS Talk decision is apparently on the agenda of that meeting.

I appreciate it is a difficult job to try to keep everyone happy. In the end it is an impossible task, it is just so unfortunate when camaraderie is the casualty.

rickyjones
February 18th, 2009, 02:08 PM
I feel it was a bad decision.

Thanks,
Richard

Antman
February 18th, 2009, 02:12 PM
Give it up already. It's not coming back, and it's not the end of the world either.
+1
Just deal with it and move on.

Vorian Grey
February 18th, 2009, 02:33 PM
Personally, I think it's one of the dumbest things they've ever done.

konqueror7
February 18th, 2009, 02:39 PM
i think its a bad decision...its better if they put it back but impose a new policy on promoting other *nix distros...i think they just wanted a certain degree of respect, since we are in the ubuntu forums, they expect us to talk about ubuntu also...

Sand & Mercury
February 18th, 2009, 02:41 PM
I have no opinion. While I enjoyed browsing that forum, I can respect the council's decision and let it be.

notwen
February 18th, 2009, 02:45 PM
Voted No. I can see both sides of the story and while understanding the need to lessen the load on the server, I also believe this was a very active and useful sub-forum for users who may have used other distros solely and perhaps even more importantly dual-booted multiple distros. I personally get annoyed having numerous forum accounts everywhere and this was a place where I could get information on different distros all in one place. Regardless of the outcome, we'll all survive. =]

SupaSonic
February 18th, 2009, 02:57 PM
Where's the "I don't care" option?

fwojciec
February 18th, 2009, 03:09 PM
It's a bad decision. It's a classic example of sacrificing an ideal and a noble disposition of generosity that used to go along with it for the sake of a short term, practical concern -- for a convenience.

"UBUNTU: Humanity for others (but if you are not talking about our product then go somewhere else, please.)"
It doesn't sound quite as good anymore...

kellemes
February 18th, 2009, 03:18 PM
A little sad but I think it's justified.
This forum is setup for Ubuntu, not other OS's.
Look at most forums of major distributions and you won't find any Ubuntu Talk subforum. Not that I know of anyway.

It's a good decision.

andras artois
February 18th, 2009, 03:56 PM
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/3937/tonyoj2.jpg
.....

diwas
February 18th, 2009, 03:59 PM
Does closing Other OS Talk benefit the forum as a whole ?


For the forum - yes. Coz they won't take such a huge step if there was no benefit for them (directly or indirectly). However for the forum members (us) it is not good.