PDA

View Full Version : Sadly, Other OS Talk has been dumped from the Ubunty forum.



handy
February 17th, 2009, 02:39 AM
This is part of the message from administration:

We regret that we have had to discontinue our Other OS Talk category. Our database had become quite large and required great amounts of time to maintain. To ease the burden, many categories have been weeded in the forums at large, and this was one that had to go. Here is a list of the official websites for the operating systems that used to have individual forums here. We hope you are able to find further assistance from there.


Bad news indeed. :-(

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 02:40 AM
This is part of the message from administration:

We regret that we have had to discontinue our Other OS Talk category. Our database had become quite large and required great amounts of time to maintain. To ease the burden, many categories have been weeded in the forums at large, and this was one that had to go. Here is a list of the official websites for the operating systems that used to have individual forums here. We hope you are able to find further assistance from there.

oh no! I liked that forum!

handy
February 17th, 2009, 02:49 AM
I've had a flick through a lot of the other categories, but no others have been notified of their imminent closure?

Grant A.
February 17th, 2009, 02:50 AM
It was quite the popular set of forums, and it really is a shame to see it go, but perhaps we could brainstorm an idea to save this huge chunk of the forums before it goes away forever.

I myself thought about since they have had database issues, maybe they could open a new database on a different server for that category.

Personally, I don't find this very good publicity for Ubuntu as a viable server, even if it is the databases fault. Perhaps the best idea is to just start from scratch with a new DB?

Any ideas?

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 02:51 AM
can we talk about other OS's here?

Grant A.
February 17th, 2009, 02:55 AM
How about they open another database in MySQL? I'm not sure if vB can handle forums on different databases, but I'm sure that since the software is libre, but not gratis, someone could come up with a quick mod.

I honestly think we have hit the point of no return, and should start back over from scratch, I mean, we don't really have much to lose but a bunch of posts that could easily be copy and pasted or rewritten if they are important enough.

Either way, this is bad, bad publicity for Ubuntu as a viable server distribution, even if it is the databases fault, because pretty much every error a database spits out looks like it's the server's problem from the user's point of view.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 02:58 AM
can we talk about other OS's here?

Who knows?

There will likely be a new revision of the CoC that specifies what we are & aren't allowed to talk about on the Ubuntu forums.

Hopefully we won't see an extension of the impediments to communication that came with the removal of the Backyard forum.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 03:00 AM
I've already gone through & copied out the few pages that I want for future reference.

Cybie257
February 17th, 2009, 03:00 AM
Personally, I don't find this very good publicity for Ubuntu as a viable server, even if it is the databases fault. Perhaps the best idea is to just start from scratch with a new DB?

Any ideas?

From this that I pulled from another discussion as I haven't seen the official yet......... :

We regret that we have had to discontinue our Other OS Talk category. Our database had become quite large and required great amounts of time to maintain. To ease the burden, many categories have been weeded in the forums at large, and this was one that had to go. Here is a list of the official websites for the operating systems that used to have individual forums here. We hope you are able to find further assistance from there.


I would have to say that your comment about the viability of Ubuntu has nothing to do with it. Space, time, maintenance for something that is free to people, is the reason. It takes money to purchase new equipment and lots of time from admins to keep things up. So, in order to keep things free and open, sometimes sacrifices have to be made to keep others going and growing. :(

-Cybie

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 03:01 AM
I don't know if this would be consisted advertising, but i just made an alternative Other Os talk forum on my website. You guys can use it if you want, but i want to know if this is advertising first before i post the link.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 03:03 AM
I don't know if this would be consisted advertising, but i just made an alternative Other Os talk forum on my website. You guys can use it if you want, but i want to know if this is advertising first before i post the link.

I don't think you will get penalised.

Post your link?

mamamia88
February 17th, 2009, 03:05 AM
it's still up as of now

Giant Speck
February 17th, 2009, 03:07 AM
It's a shame that they are closing a support subforum just to avoid closing their precious Forum Games subforum. :roll:

Dr Small
February 17th, 2009, 03:09 AM
The games should be the ones to go, and the Other OS talk should remain.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 03:17 AM
The games should be the ones to go, and the Other OS talk should remain.

I agree.

But there certainly would be those who don't.

jpeddicord
February 17th, 2009, 03:21 AM
You can read the official announcement here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=147

Yes, this means that discussions about other distributions themselves should go onto other forums. If you have a topic related to Ubuntu or it is more of a general Linux question, then it's probably fine to continue posting. For example, if you use SUSE and ask a question on how to change themes in GNOME we probably won't notice. Just don't go and post a blatantly obvious thread titled "Arch installation issues" or similar, or we'll probably tell you to look elsewhere.

cardinals_fan
February 17th, 2009, 03:21 AM
No! That was my favorite forum. The Cafe isn't as interesting... :(

SunnyRabbiera
February 17th, 2009, 03:24 AM
well that sucks, especially when some of the subforums were more helpful then the real ones (especially the mandriva subforum)

handy
February 17th, 2009, 03:26 AM
Perhaps too many Ubuntu users have been seen to be migrating to Arch & others. :lolflag:

Surely the motivation isn't really as small minded as that.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 03:28 AM
well that sucks, especially when some of the subforums were more helpful then the real ones (especially the mandriva subforum)

I agree; you would usually get an answer to an Arch problem quicker here than on the Arch forums, due to the larger population of users here.

NintendoTogepi
February 17th, 2009, 03:29 AM
Bring it back. Take away another forum, it was my second most used forum. :(

The Ubuntu forums aren't just about Ubuntu, they're also very useful for other distros.

DeadRobot
February 17th, 2009, 03:32 AM
Yeah I'll miss it as well. It was in my top 3 favorite subforums. I read it everyday. :(

crimesaucer
February 17th, 2009, 03:32 AM
No! That was my favorite forum. The Cafe isn't as interesting... :(

That was also my favorite sub-forum. I learned a lot about Linux reading through it.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 03:36 AM
Bring it back. Take away another forum, it was my second most used forum. :(

The Ubuntu forums aren't just about Ubuntu, they're also very useful for other distros.

I think that that is the problem.

The forum was so good, & got so much use, that it is not seen as being worth the cost & effort to maintain, when in reality it has nothing to do with Ubuntu, apart from that trivial thing the community.

tubezninja
February 17th, 2009, 03:40 AM
I honestly think we have hit the point of no return, and should start back over from scratch, I mean, we don't really have much to lose but a bunch of posts that could easily be copy and pasted or rewritten if they are important enough.

That would be a hasty, un-thought-out decision that would have serious ramifications for support. There are a LOT of good answers and a vast knowledgeable in these forums that helps out Ubuntu and new linux users often through a simple google search. To simply dump the database and start over would be to lose all of that. A simple "re-writing" isn't so simple.


Either way, this is bad, bad publicity for Ubuntu as a viable server distribution,

Uhm, no. Sorry, but no.

tubezninja
February 17th, 2009, 03:45 AM
I don't see why this warrants another thread on the issue.

I-75
February 17th, 2009, 03:49 AM
Other OS talk is one of the main reasons for being here. Seriously, please re-consider.

If anything, get rid of the games forum. What does the games forum have ANYTHING to with operating systems or Linux for that matter?

Sorivenul
February 17th, 2009, 03:51 AM
What a depressing announcement.

Other OS Talk was one of my favorite sub-forums. It, and the knowledge of those who frequented it will be missed.

jpeddicord
February 17th, 2009, 03:54 AM
I don't see why this warrants another thread on the issue.

+1. Merged.

crimesaucer
February 17th, 2009, 03:55 AM
The Other OS sub-forum was an easy place to go for questions about distros such as Arch or Gentoo..... it seems that all of those previous help topics and future questions will be scattered throughout the forum now.

I guess I can stay active in the Community Cafe, but I spent most of my time in the Arch sub-forum.

kk0sse54
February 17th, 2009, 03:55 AM
It's really a shame that they had to close it. Other OS Talk was one of the only reasons why I still use Ubuntu Forums.

DeadRobot
February 17th, 2009, 03:59 AM
We should make a petition.

SunnyRabbiera
February 17th, 2009, 04:00 AM
And what aboutg those who have windows issues, a linux forum is often more friendly then a lame tech from microsoft...

sertse
February 17th, 2009, 04:01 AM
:(

Other OS Talk is one of the few forums I semi-regularly post in

kk0sse54
February 17th, 2009, 04:04 AM
And what aboutg those who have windows issues, a linux forum is often more friendly then a lame tech from microsoft...

I agree but also in regards to other operating systems in general. It's like Ubuntu is closing it's doors to the other various linux distros available. I understand something has to be done about these servers but there must have been something else they could have taken away. And there are great support forums for a lot of those distros but at least keep the general discussion from the Other OS since it was a great way of discovering and discussing new OSs. How about instead they delete Social Groups? Or perhaps delete the Community Cafe Games :p (/me runs and hides)

handy
February 17th, 2009, 04:09 AM
This is truly a move that will have an effect of isolating the Ubuntu community somewhat from the other distro's.

There will certainly be very knowledgeable Linux users that won't come here & help out in the future because they don't have the attraction of the superb Other OS Talk sub-forum.

Ubuntu forums will loose due to this closure.

Sorivenul
February 17th, 2009, 04:13 AM
And there are great support forums for a lot of those distros but at least keep the general discussion from the Other OS since it was a great way of discovering and discussing new OSs. How about instead they delete Social Groups? Or perhaps delete the Community Cafe Games :p (/me runs and hides)
I agree the Cafe Games could easily have gone. What is more useful to the community: time-sucks like the Cafe Games or truly informative information like that available in Other OS Talk? What is more important: educating and helping users with problems in OSs outside Ubuntu, or "The Banning Game" and "The BUMP Thread"? The longer I think on this, the more I find this move to be out of sync with Ubuntu's image and mantra. At least keeping the general discussion, as you mentioned would be somewhat satisfactory. I have my doubts about the chances of even that, though...

matthew
February 17th, 2009, 04:29 AM
Just so people know a little of the thought behind the move...

The Cafe is a vital part of the forums and was not considered for removal, although we may prune threads older than a year or so at some point.

The games bit is actually a part of the Cafe. It only has its own section to remove clutter from the Cafe. They really take very little resources. We will likely prune this area as well.

Ubuntuforums.org has two main purposes: to provide tech support for Ubuntu Linux, and to give an outlet for people in the Ubuntu community to interact on a more social level. Anything that does not serve either of those two purposes is being questioned.

We have made other changes and are working on a few more to help us meet our main objectives and fulfill our two main purposes.

ubuntu-geek
February 17th, 2009, 04:30 AM
Just so people know a little of the thought behind the move...

The Cafe is a vital part of the forums and was not considered for removal, although we may prune threads older than a year or so at some point.

The games bit is actually a part of the Cafe. It only has its own section to remove clutter from the Cafe. They really take very little resources. We will likely prune this area as well.

Ubuntuforums.org has two main purposes: to provide tech support for Ubuntu Linux, and to give an outlet for people in the Ubuntu community to interact on a more social level. Anything that does not serve either of those two purposes is being questioned.

We have made other changes and are working on a few more to help us meet our main objectives and fulfill our two main purposes.
+1 nicely worded..

T2manner
February 17th, 2009, 04:31 AM
Maybe this will help other OS Forums to grow.
Which is needed.

matthew
February 17th, 2009, 04:33 AM
Maybe this will help other OS Forums to grow.
Which is needed.
That would be great. We have never wanted to compete with them or consider them rivals. Our goal has always been to be really good at what we do, and we truly wish the other OS forums well.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 04:33 AM
There will likely be a new revision of the CoC that specifies what we are & aren't allowed to talk about on the Ubuntu forums.



i think it would be ridiculous for them to not allow us to talk about other operating systems, seeing how alot of people here don't use ubuntu or use multiple OS's.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 04:34 AM
I think that UbuntuGeek is tired of the ongoing trouble that he has been having with the Ubuntu forum's servers & this may have motivated the ruthless pruning of a very useful & well liked part of the Ubuntu community from the Ubuntu forums.

Grant A.
February 17th, 2009, 04:35 AM
Just so people know a little of the thought behind the move...

The Cafe is a vital part of the forums and was not considered for removal, although we may prune threads older than a year or so at some point.

The games bit is actually a part of the Cafe. It only has its own section to remove clutter from the Cafe. They really take very little resources. We will likely prune this area as well.

Ubuntuforums.org has two main purposes: to provide tech support for Ubuntu Linux, and to give an outlet for people in the Ubuntu community to interact on a more social level. Anything that does not serve either of those two purposes is being questioned.

We have made other changes and are working on a few more to help us meet our main objectives and fulfill our two main purposes.

Why didn't you just prune the other OS talk?

BTW- This forum is already pruned at one month from the last posting date

T2manner
February 17th, 2009, 04:36 AM
i think it would be ridiculous for them to not allow us to talk about other operating systems, seeing how alot of people here don't use ubuntu or use multiple OS's.

This is an Ubuntu Forum.
Not a Linux forum..

handy
February 17th, 2009, 04:37 AM
i think it would be ridiculous for them to not allow us to talk about other operating systems, seeing how alot of people here don't use ubuntu or use multiple OS's.

Me too.

I think it is ridiculous to remove the Other OS Talk sub-forum.

So there you go.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 04:37 AM
That would be great. We have never wanted to compete with them or consider them rivals. Our goal has always been to be really good at what we do, and we truly wish the other OS forums well.

they don't need our help. those that are serious about getting help for a particular distro, will go where the best help is. having a general OS forum wasn't meant to replace the other forums, but rather give people another avenue to discuss other views and ways of doing things. i disagree with this decision.

matthew
February 17th, 2009, 04:38 AM
Why didn't you just prune the other OS talk?
We aren't planning on removing or deleting those posts. We will likely move them into the General Help category, with a new prefix or tag. The details are still being worked on.

It isn't our goal to eliminate discussion of other OS stuff, but we need to streamline things a bit and make things work a little more smoothly (plus, Ubuntu really is the focus around here :) ).

handy
February 17th, 2009, 04:38 AM
This is an Ubuntu Forum.
Not a Linux forum..

& there the line has been drawn.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 04:39 AM
Me too.

I think it is ridiculous to remove the Other OS Talk sub-forum.

So there you go.

i respectfully disagree with you on some things, but i'm with you 100% on this. uncalled for. ubuntuforums was voted best net resource for a reason.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 04:42 AM
I'm still in shock, I really would never have anticipated this move by the administration.

I would pay a yearly subscription to keep the Other OS Talk sub-forums open.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 04:43 AM
(plus, Ubuntu really is the focus around here :) ).

i agree that ubuntu should be the focus, no doubt. but, many linux users use or try more than one distro. and the fact that everyone, no matter what OS they use, is welcome here. i hope we can work something out.

ubuntu-geek
February 17th, 2009, 04:43 AM
I think that UbuntuGeek is tired of the ongoing trouble that he has been having with the Ubuntu forum's servers & this may have motivated the ruthless pruning of a very useful & well liked part of the Ubuntu community from the Ubuntu forums.
This actually makes me LOL! You are so wrong. This section has been destined to be closed for over a year and it finally happened. Removing any of the categories here are not going to automagically make this forum faster :) or improve it's slowness.

However, the forums have grown and we do not need unnecessary forums to continue the growth of this forum as it has an established user base.

ubuntu-geek
February 17th, 2009, 04:45 AM
I'm still in shock, I really would never have anticipated this move by the administration.

I would pay a yearly subscription to keep the Other OS Talk sub-forums open.
But we cannot find any posts by you there? Strange...

handy
February 17th, 2009, 04:46 AM
This actually makes me LOL! You are so wrong. This section has been destined to be closed for over a year and it finally happened. Removing any of the categories here are not going to automagically make this forum faster :) or improve it's slowness.

However, the forums have grown and we do not need unnecessary forums to continue the growth of this forum as it has an established user base.

So there are absolutely no circumstances that will enable the Other OS Talk to exist?

handy
February 17th, 2009, 04:47 AM
But we cannot find any posts by you there? Strange...

What does that mean?

Does that mean that if I give you money I can tell you what I want it spent on?

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 04:47 AM
But we cannot find any posts by you there? Strange...

really?

matthew
February 17th, 2009, 04:48 AM
So there are absolutely no circumstances that will enable the Other OS Talk to exist?
No, sorry.

ghindo
February 17th, 2009, 04:48 AM
Man, Other OS Talk was one of my favorite forums. I've learned a lot about other Linux distributions and other OSs from browsing that forum. I'll really miss it :(

ubuntu-geek
February 17th, 2009, 04:48 AM
What does that mean?

Does that mean that if I give you money I can tell you what I want it spent on?
We cannot take your money, however I am sure there is another linux project that needs donations.

kk0sse54
February 17th, 2009, 04:49 AM
But we cannot find any posts by you there? Strange...

lol considering that's pretty much the only place I see handy post other than the community cafe of course :p

Sorivenul
February 17th, 2009, 04:49 AM
really?
+1. I've seen plenty of posts by handy in Other OS Talk.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 04:50 AM
i wasn't burning up other os talk or anything, but it was a nice subforum.

am i going to be penalized for taking my "other OS" thoughts to the cafe?

sertse
February 17th, 2009, 04:52 AM
I don't understand,

handy was probably one of the most active posters in other os talk. You can't "not" find a post by him.

Anyways, guys..suggestions on where to go now?

DW Weekly's comments section is the only other place I know that get enough traffic that discusses other os stuff. The other os talk of... ther Distros just isn't very active..

handy
February 17th, 2009, 04:53 AM
i wasn't burning up other os talk or anything, but it was a nice subforum.

am i going to be penalized for taking my "other OS" thoughts to the cafe?

It's certainly going to get messier in the cafe & a lot harder to reference.

Chilli Bob
February 17th, 2009, 04:53 AM
Damn! In many cases the Other OS Talk was a better source of information than the other distro's own forums.

cardinals_fan
February 17th, 2009, 04:54 AM
I'm not going to do the whole "I'm leaving!!!1!" production, but I will bid many of you a fond quasi-farewell. I'll still drop by the Cafe every now and then, but with my favorite forum gone, I'll probably spend my time elsewhere. In case I don't see ya: Good afternoon, good evening, and good night!

Grant A.
February 17th, 2009, 04:54 AM
But we cannot find any posts by you there? Strange...

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6742497&postcount=2
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6731377&postcount=3
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6738447&postcount=18
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6692692&postcount=2

:-k


I didn't even use the search feature to find those.


BTW- I probably won't be around here much anymore, either. Those forums were pretty much the whole reason why I came, besides the cafe.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 04:54 AM
DW Weekly's comments section is the only other place I know that get enough traffic that discusses other os stuff. The other os talk of... ther Distros just isn't very active..

add to the fact that most other distro's boards don't give a rat's *** about other OS's. other OS is what seperated ubuntu from the rest. the ability to welcome everyone. now part of that is gone.

Sorivenul
February 17th, 2009, 04:55 AM
It's certainly going to get messier in the cafe & a lot harder to reference.
Exactly.

For something that was "destined to close for over year" this certainly comes a a surprise, and does not seem like a well thought out action.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 04:55 AM
I'm not going to do the whole "I'm leaving!!!1!" production, but I will bid many of you a fond quasi-farewell. I'll still drop by the Cafe every now and then, but with my favorite forum gone, I'll probably spend my time elsewhere. In case I don't see ya: Good afternoon, good evening, and good night!

If you find or know of any good replacements for our beloved deceased forum, please let us know?

kk0sse54
February 17th, 2009, 04:56 AM
I'm not going to do the whole "I'm leaving!!!1!" production, but I will bid many of you a fond quasi-farewell. I'll still drop by the Cafe every now and then, but with my favorite forum gone, I'll probably spend my time elsewhere. In case I don't see ya: Good afternoon, good evening, and good night!

It will probably be like this for most of us ex-Other Os'ers myself included.

schauerlich
February 17th, 2009, 04:56 AM
A little birdy told me that grubbn.org is pulling another NOMGPP and resurrecting a closed UF forum. Film at 11.

ubuntu-geek
February 17th, 2009, 04:57 AM
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6742497&postcount=2
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6731377&postcount=3
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6738447&postcount=18
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6692692&postcount=2

:-k


I didn't even use the search feature to find those.


BTW- I probably won't be around here much anymore, either. Those forums were pretty much the whole reason why I came, besides the cafe.
Well I stand corrected, goes to show how well our search feature works eh? :) But we still aren't bringing it back and this thread will likely be closed soon.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 04:57 AM
I'm not going to do the whole "I'm leaving!!!1!" production, but I will bid many of you a fond quasi-farewell. I'll still drop by the Cafe every now and then, but with my favorite forum gone, I'll probably spend my time elsewhere. In case I don't see ya: Good afternoon, good evening, and good night!

i may not see eye to eye with cardinals fan, but we are losing a valued member by doing this. possibly many more. seriously reconsider.

ubuntu-geek
February 17th, 2009, 04:57 AM
A little birdy told me that grubbn.org is pulling another NOMGPP and resurrecting a closed UF forum. Film at 11.
I often heard people spamming links get banned :P

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 04:57 AM
Well I stand corrected, goes to show how well our search feature works eh? :) But we still aren't bringing it back and this thread will likely be closed soon.

then you'll likely have to close a bunch of others after this dies.

Izek
February 17th, 2009, 04:58 AM
"Distrowatch" huh? Why not reference to LinuxQuestions instead? I find their interface much more simple and inviting.

I don't want to see prices for free software on the front page.

Though, I don't mind the removal of the Other OS Talk forum, this just means I'll be spending less time posting at these boards.

Chilli Bob
February 17th, 2009, 04:58 AM
this thread will likely be closed soon.

Please don't, people need to vent/mourn. And the mood hasn't turned nasty.

schauerlich
February 17th, 2009, 04:59 AM
I often heard people spamming links get banned :P

It's a good thing I didn't link to it, then, isn't it? :)

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 04:59 AM
this just means I'll be spending less time posting at these boards.

sometimes people don't do what's best. this is a prime example.

Sorivenul
February 17th, 2009, 05:00 AM
I'm not going to do the whole "I'm leaving!!!1!" production, but I will bid many of you a fond quasi-farewell. I'll still drop by the Cafe every now and then, but with my favorite forum gone, I'll probably spend my time elsewhere. In case I don't see ya: Good afternoon, good evening, and good night!
Exactly. Add my +1 to this. My help in ABT, GH, and Programming Talk is limited as is, as I found supporting users and aiding exploration in Other OS Talk more to my liking. I'll be around the FreeBSD forums, and DaemonForums with this type of support more now, I suspect.

You'll still see my occasional post around here though...

matthew
February 17th, 2009, 05:00 AM
"Distrowatch" huh? Why not reference to LinuxQuestions instead? I find their interface much more simple and inviting.
Actually, that's not a bad idea. I didn't think of it. I may go change the announcement.

smartboyathome
February 17th, 2009, 05:00 AM
Looks like I won't be here as much either, since I didn't really use it as much but for Arch's forum. I will be here and on CafeLinux.org (which also has an Other OS talk, as well as LaRoza and RAV :popcorn:).

ubuntu-geek
February 17th, 2009, 05:00 AM
It's a good thing I didn't link to it, then, isn't it? :)
:) I was just kidding with you btw..

Giant Speck
February 17th, 2009, 05:01 AM
I see a large rift in the forums in the near future.

Izek
February 17th, 2009, 05:02 AM
sometimes people don't do what's best. this is a prime example.

I actually post in threads that require support, but hardly since I rarely ever troubleshoot on linux or terminal.

matthew
February 17th, 2009, 05:04 AM
"Distrowatch" huh? Why not reference to LinuxQuestions instead? I find their interface much more simple and inviting.

I don't want to see prices for free software on the front page.

Though, I don't mind the removal of the Other OS Talk forum, this just means I'll be spending less time posting at these boards.

Actually, that's not a bad idea. I didn't think of it. I may go change the announcement.

Okay, I referenced them as well.

cardinals_fan
February 17th, 2009, 05:05 AM
i may not see eye to eye with cardinals fan, but we are losing a valued member by doing this. possibly many more. seriously reconsider.
Thank you for the compliment :)

I'm not trying to threaten or whine here. It's just a simple statement of fact that I'm mostly interested in other systems and there are plenty of people to help on places like LinuxQuestions.org.

Well I stand corrected, goes to show how well our search feature works eh? :) But we still aren't bringing it back and this thread will likely be closed soon.
Just my personal opinion: closing this thread will have no constructive effect. If people want to drown their sorrows (so long as it doesn't turn nasty), it doesn't do any harm.

schauerlich
February 17th, 2009, 05:08 AM
:) I was just kidding with you btw..

'Course. :)

zmjjmz is in charge of this little project, anyways, so ban him instead. :)

zmjjmz
February 17th, 2009, 05:15 AM
'Course. :)

zmjjmz is in charge of this little project, anyways, so ban him instead. :)

nathangrubb told me to do this, so yeah.
http://grubbn.org/otheros

matthew
February 17th, 2009, 05:16 AM
nathangrubb told me to do this, so yeah.
http://grubbn.org/otheros
Hey, that's cool. Best wishes.

PrimoTurbo
February 17th, 2009, 05:16 AM
The reason for closure is very suspicious.

-grubby
February 17th, 2009, 05:17 AM
nathangrubb told me to do this, so yeah.
http://grubbn.org/otheros

I said it was your duty since you decided you wanted to run this forum ;).

kk0sse54
February 17th, 2009, 05:17 AM
nathangrubb told me to do this, so yeah.
http://grubbn.org/otheros

It's just not the same...:cry:

chucky chuckaluck
February 17th, 2009, 05:17 AM
with ubuntu being a 'gateway' distro to other ways of using linux, i see this as unfortunate. one of the things that i've always respected UF for was its lack of jealousy towards distros it would lose users to. i'm sure that intent is still there. please reconsider.

Sunflower1970
February 17th, 2009, 05:18 AM
:(

Other OS Forum is where I learned about Arch, PuppyLinux, DSL, AntiX, Debian...and other distros I've tried.

It was nice to have all these different distro subforums in one place, and everyone so friendly. (The Arch forums scare me...) I lurk mostly in the Other OS forum, but I've learned so much.

I'm saddened that it will be cut.

Twitch6000
February 17th, 2009, 05:28 AM
well that sucks, especially when some of the subforums were more helpful then the real ones (especially the mandriva subforum)

Agreed hell people came here for freaking windows help .... lol

I even got better windows help here then other places =/

Other Os Talk was also a good place to learn about new distros =[...



I'm not going to do the whole "I'm leaving!!!1!" production, but I will bid many of you a fond quasi-farewell. I'll still drop by the Cafe every now and then, but with my favorite forum gone, I'll probably spend my time elsewhere. In case I don't see ya: Good afternoon, good evening, and good night!

+1 to this I will now probably sign up at the PClinuxOS forums and Linux Mint Forums.

Luke has no name
February 17th, 2009, 05:31 AM
I believe that a decision this long thought out by the administration could have been told to the userbase well before TODAY.

Another example of managerial avoidance of user interaction and a lack of care for the opinions of those they say they wish to serve. A heads up would have been courteous.

Something much less drastic could have been done, or a transition process could have taken place where people discuss with each other where else to go (rather than getting just one 'official' link to each distro.

Overall, the decision itself was arguably a very poor and avoidable one, and certainly could have been handled better, for the greater benefit of UF users.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 05:32 AM
Looks like I won't be here as much either, since I didn't really use it as much but for Arch's forum. I will be here and on CafeLinux.org (which also has an Other OS talk, as well as LaRoza and RAV :popcorn:).

i'm also signed up there. i just never spent much time.

i'm not too worried, the dust will settle, and things will get back to business.

i now sell ubuntu installations as part of my pc repair business. it's going pretty good. a couple years ago, i would have never thought this.

:guitar: :guitar:

ArtF10
February 17th, 2009, 05:34 AM
If they had to pick one forum, I'm glad that they decided on that one.

cardinals_fan
February 17th, 2009, 05:39 AM
It's just not the same...:cry:
...or is it? ;)

handy
February 17th, 2009, 05:39 AM
If they had to pick one forum, I'm glad that they decided on that one.

:lolflag:

You're the 1% er.

slinkey1981
February 17th, 2009, 05:42 AM
If they had to pick one forum, I'm glad that they decided on that one.

I'm glad that that is your opinion. It might not mesh well with the thoughts of others involved in this thread, but I do feel that the Other OS forum had a wealth of information.

I think that the Other OS forum saved me from posting a new topic somewhere else at least a hundred times.

I will probably be looking for a new Arch or Debian forum now (Trying to get better with Debian based distros). I would check out the Mint forum, but they pretty much just send people here. (Ha)

Anyways, I just wanted to throw my two cents out there, and let everyone know that I think the forums would be better off (for the community) if the Other OS forum wasn't removed.

sudo apt-get purge OtherOS

Sad.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 05:52 AM
It is unfortunate that a few of the regulars who spend a good deal of time in the Other OS Talk sub-forums had not been approached & asked if they would mind moderating there or helping out in whatever way so that, that particular part of the Ubuntu forums was not the apparent drain on resources that it must some how of been for it to be closed.

It certainly wasn't the kind of drain that the Backyard was.

Sorivenul
February 17th, 2009, 05:58 AM
I'm registered with a few of the other regulars at the New Other OS Talk previously mentioned in this thread. Come on in, the water is fine!

sertse
February 17th, 2009, 05:59 AM
Somewhat on that point, if this decision was planned a long time ago, I'm suprised it came down so suddenly. Personally I'm wondering what Kmandla, probably the (ex) mod most active/contributed in that forum thought of it...

slinkey1981
February 17th, 2009, 06:02 AM
It is unfortunate that a few of the regulars who spend a good deal of time in the Other OS Talk sub-forums had not been approached & asked if they would mind moderating there or helping out in whatever way so that, that particular part of the Ubuntu forums was not the apparent drain on resources that it must some how of been for it to be closed.

It certainly wasn't the kind of drain that the Backyard was.

I know this might sound stupid, but why can't they link to an off site forum like the one listed earlier in this thread, that wouldn't add any strain to the database....

handy
February 17th, 2009, 06:03 AM
I'm registered with a few of the other regulars at the New Other OS Talk previously mentioned in this thread. Come on in, the water is fine!

Is that the one mentioned but not linked to early in this thread, or is it the NOMGPP forum?

matthew
February 17th, 2009, 06:04 AM
I know this might sound stupid, but why can't they link to an off site forum like the one listed earlier in this thread, that wouldn't add any strain to the database....
There are more than a dozen links in the announcement...just saying.

schauerlich
February 17th, 2009, 06:07 AM
Is that the one mentioned but not linked to early in this thread, or is it the NOMGPP forum?


There are more than a dozen links in the announcement...just saying.

To both of you, I believe the respective posters meant the forum hosted on grubbn.org which zmjjmz linked to.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 06:08 AM
There are more than a dozen links in the announcement...just saying.

Interestingly, for whatever reasons, none of those forums have the community that exists or existed here.

& there is the loss.

matthew
February 17th, 2009, 06:09 AM
To both of you, I believe the respective posters meant the forum hosted on grubbn.org which zmjjmz linked to.
Fair enough. Here's that link: http://grubbn.org/otheros/

In the Other OS area, we are linking to more official and established places to find/receive support, but I hope this new one goes over well.

slinkey1981
February 17th, 2009, 06:11 AM
There are more than a dozen links in the announcement...just saying.

No, I know what you mean, and I realize how my post must have been read. That's not exactly what I mean.

Don't give people an option, people think they want choices, and SOME of them do. Most of them don't.

Seriously, just say something like;

"This forum is closed. Use this one(link), you will have to register, but it serves the EXACT same purpose."

I know there are like a bazillion links, but let's face it. We all use this forum because we LIKE this forum, it feels kinda like home. We (sometimes) enjoy hearing others opinions, and we REALLY enjoy the help that the community provides.

This is the ONLY forum that I have been to even when I had nothing to ask about. I come around, read threads, and, more often than not, get help without EVER having to type out a post.

This community made that section of the forums what it was, and if just ONE link was provided, then that is where the people would go. It would still be this community, just linked to a new place to ask questions.

Well, that's just my thoughts on the subject.



Fair enough. Here's that link: http://grubbn.org/otheros/

In the Other OS area, we are linking to more official and established places to find/receive support, but I hope this new one goes over well.


Most people know, or should know the respective forum for the os they have installed.

I'm not even sure if I am using Ubuntu anymore, it's been merged and spliced and Frankensteined with a few other distros that I can only be sure that the copy of 8.10 that I installed bears no semblance to the OS currently lurking in the darkness of my case.

The point is, I can find help for that here! (could)

Say I used PClos, they didn't even want me to ask questions regarding packages that didn't come on the cd... The community sucked there.

This community rocks.

Sorivenul
February 17th, 2009, 06:24 AM
To both of you, I believe the respective posters meant the forum hosted on grubbn.org which zmjjmz linked to.
That would be correct.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 06:26 AM
That would be correct.

I did the register & activated as/per my email instructions, but it won't let me login as yet?

[Edit:] I just went through & checked my blocked cookies list & it was there, so I removed grubbn.org & now I can log in. :-)

cardinals_fan
February 17th, 2009, 06:27 AM
I did the register & activated as/per my email instructions, but it won't let me login as yet?
I could...

darrenn
February 17th, 2009, 06:31 AM
I won't be sad when the arch users go. Especially when I have to read post's from them like this.


I agree as well. I already switched to Arch some time ago so I could esape the nightmare of the last two releases of Ubuntu: New bugs, instability, bloat, slowness, PulseAudio (Who was the idiot who thought PA was a good idea for a stable production system? That person deserves to be fired.), I switched to Arch... which is like the anti-Ubuntu: Fast, small, stable, solid, rolling release, and gives me more control over what's installed, unlike Ubuntu: Bloated, slow, unstable, too short a discrete release cycle, and you're basically a slave to Canonical's (Increasingly frequently bad.) decisions over what is part of the system, like Pulse Audio or this web app debacle with 9.04.

-grubby
February 17th, 2009, 06:33 AM
I did the register & activated as/per my email instructions, but it won't let me login as yet?

Hmm, according to the admin CP, you should be fine. Maybe you should reset your password?

slinkey1981
February 17th, 2009, 06:36 AM
I won't be sad when the arch users go. Especially when I have to read post's from them like this.

I hope you understand that EVERY os will invariably have jerks who use the distro.

How can you label every Arch user like that when I'm positive some if not the majority give back to the forum in a positive and constructive way.

ghindo
February 17th, 2009, 06:45 AM
I won't be sad when the arch users go. Especially when I have to read post's from them like this.That's taking things out of context and really stereotyping, isn't it?

darrenn
February 17th, 2009, 06:52 AM
I hope you understand that EVERY os will invariably have jerks who use the distro.

How can you label every Arch user like that when I'm positive some if not the majority give back to the forum in a positive and constructive way.


Sorry not all arch users are anti-ubuntu. It's just when I read post's like the one I quoted it makes me angry.

RiceMonster
February 17th, 2009, 07:14 AM
I won't be sad when the arch users go. Especially when I have to read post's from them like this.

Well I'm not going anywhere :). If I had some kind of gripe against Ubuntu, I wouldn't post here anyway.

sujoy
February 17th, 2009, 07:50 AM
Looks like I won't be here as much either, since I didn't really use it as much but for Arch's forum. I will be here and on CafeLinux.org (which also has an Other OS talk, as well as LaRoza and RAV :popcorn:).

hey, thanks for mentioning that. see ya there :)

ok fine, the decision has been taken and its irreversible but understandable somewhat. but really, there can be no excuse why it wasnt mentioned before (atleast a month ago) since it was like planned for a year.

cmay
February 17th, 2009, 08:06 AM
this makes me very sad.
i have as i pointed out a few times some trouble wiht my eyes. so it means that even that i tried to get into the debian userforums i cant since they use those capchas or what they are called. i simply cant become a member. i also last night tried 3 times to reset my password login at the forums at 64studio where i want to ask if they think my new laptop could run this distro wiht out any problems and what soundcard to get. i still just cant loging in there. i cant see the passwords and i know i done it right as i can login this once to reset it. i know these forums here and my login by hart.

i have got a account at open-solaris forums and i have one at the crunch bang forums. but being able to ask here has made a lot of difference to me.

i wil still use these forums as i run ubuntu also and i will maybe start using the PT section again. i was just starting to use the debian subforums since i have some debian releated smaller projects now. and wiht lenny coming out i installed a bunch of those so i will maybe need the help from somewhere i guess.
all i can say is that i hope that the subforums will return someday.

Tamlynmac
February 17th, 2009, 08:11 AM
(http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=55341)handy (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=55341)

:lolflag:

You're the 1% er.


Another of the 1%ers here. If the forum had to eliminate a section, why not "Other OS Talk". This is an Ubuntu forum. Granted many dual boot and that section potentially had redeeming qualities. I haven't spent much time in that section, thus cannot speak to it's benefits.

However, when put in perspective, the primary interest of this forum should be Ubuntu. As wolfen69 (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=3744) suggested, alternative OS's could be diuscussed else where in the forum. I personally found the disclosure fundamentally adequate and believe many may find more in depth disscusions on a site specifically targeting their OS of choice.

Just my .02

fwojciec
February 17th, 2009, 08:13 AM
We aren't planning on removing or deleting those posts. We will likely move them into the General Help category, with a new prefix or tag. The details are still being worked on.

It isn't our goal to eliminate discussion of other OS stuff, but we need to streamline things a bit and make things work a little more smoothly (plus, Ubuntu really is the focus around here :) ).

Sorry, but this is kind of dumb from the forum management point of view, IMO. You can't really control what people choose to post, so it makes sense to try and "canalize" the generated discourse, split it into a logical and transparent structure. The best thing about having Other OS forum category was that other OS discussions could be redirected to a specific location, so that they don't interfere with Ubuntu specific discussions. Now you're just going to have Other OS discussions, questions and queries all over the place instead -- unless your plan is to make moderation much more heavy-handed.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 08:23 AM
It's just not the same...:cry:

No, but we can make something of it.

The Ubuntu forums is no longer the same either, it has lost something.

Perhaps it was the users, not the content that they wanted to loose?

It really, doesn't make sense to me, I can't see how those forums were being a drain on the resources here, quite the opposite in fact.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 08:33 AM
I could...


Hmm, according to the admin CP, you should be fine. Maybe you should reset your password?

A somewhat belated reply just to let you know I had edited my initial post a while ago:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6747199&postcount=116

I have been posting away on the forum since I could login: :-P

http://grubbn.org/otheros/index.php

hessiess
February 17th, 2009, 08:51 AM
I won't be sad when the arch users go. Especially when I have to read post's from them like this.

Not all Arch users are bad. Some, like me, use more than one distro, including Ubuntu.

Personally im not terrably bothered about the closing of Outher OS talk, it was always quite quite anyway.

kevdog
February 17th, 2009, 08:54 AM
Handy

I share your sentiments exactly. I dont at this time use another OS such as Arch, however thought this decision was a bad one indeed. I'm still missing OMGPP (or the Cafe), and yet this seems to be another dagger just limiting the overall personality of the forums in general. Maybe its just me, but these forums are a large part why I like Ubuntu. Quick/rapid responses, good discussions, and always something to learn. Limiting choice or indirectly censoring topics of discussion really takes away from the experience. On the one hand I can see the rationale behind the closure of OMGPP, however with other OS Talk, I fail to see similar logic.

Another sad day indeed.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 09:03 AM
Another of the 1%ers here. If the forum had to eliminate a section, why not "Other OS Talk". This is an Ubuntu forum. Granted many dual boot and that section potentially had redeeming qualities. I haven't spent much time in that section, thus cannot speak to it's benefits.


You obviously haven't used Linux long enough to appreciate the similarity of all of the distro's & therefore have a chauvinistic attitude in relation to your favourite brand. Unfortunately this is a very common human failing.



However, when put in perspective, the primary interest of this forum should be Ubuntu. As wolfen69 (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=3744) suggested, alternative OS's could be di[u]scussed else where in the forum.

I agree, that is what the Other OS Talk was established for.



I personally found the disclosure fundamentally adequate

As you would, considering that you have no use for that forum or any understanding of what it was! :lolflag:



and believe many may find more in depth disscusions on a site specifically targeting their OS of choice.

What is your basis for that statement? It most certainly is not experience?

Some major players & maintainers of other distro forums frequented that forum & made valuable contributions.


There is obviously no shortage of highly skilled linux people to answer Ubuntu Linux, user questions here, otherwise the forum administration wouldn't have just alienated a whole swag of users, many of whom were extremely helpful to the Ubuntu community.

Yeh' I know, sour grapes.

I just keep shaking my head on this one.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 09:07 AM
Handy

I share your sentiments exactly. I dont at this time use another OS such as Arch, however thought this decision was a bad one indeed. I'm still missing OMGPP (or the Cafe), and yet this seems to be another dagger just limiting the overall personality of the forums in general. Maybe its just me, but these forums are a large part why I like Ubuntu. Quick/rapid responses, good discussions, and always something to learn. Limiting choice or indirectly censoring topics of discussion really takes away from the experience. On the one hand I can see the rationale behind the closure of OMGPP, however with other OS Talk, I fail to see similar logic.

Another sad day indeed.

In the end I think that it must all come down to money.

This is a business, I don't know who is involved or how it works. But usually when unfathomable decisions are made money is behind it.

binbash
February 17th, 2009, 09:08 AM
WTF? Then purge inactive users,zero msg users.In 3 years all forums will be closed then?

SunnyRabbiera
February 17th, 2009, 09:24 AM
Indeed, I think improper forum management is the main cause of this.
Seriously if the admins would delete old posts that date back to 2006 or delete posts that relate to unsupported versions of ubuntu Like warty) things would be a bit better.

chris4585
February 17th, 2009, 09:25 AM
Well this is very sad, I enjoy the Other OS Talk forum... quite a lot, its one of two forums I do actually look at. All I have to say is wow, just wow (can you imagine the scene from family guy where Peter goes wow over and over?) Anyway this sucks and I'm totally shocked. I don't post so often, but I do read quite a lot, and I'll miss everyone I wont see anymore.

tommcd
February 17th, 2009, 09:26 AM
Wow! Closing the "other OS talk" is unfortunate. I will miss it. Many people (including me!) start their linux journey with Ubuntu. Many Ubuntu users (including me again!!) then become curious about other distros. The Other OS Talk sub-forum was a great place for Ubuntu users to ask questions about other distros, and expand their linux knowledge in the process. I learned a great deal about many other distros here. I may never have discovered some distros (e.g., Zenwalk) if it were not for this forum. Other OS talk was my favorite section of these forums!

For a great alternative to Other OS Talk, I would encourage everyone to join http://www.linuxquestions.org/. It is far and away the best linux forum on the planet!

SunnyRabbiera
February 17th, 2009, 09:30 AM
Yeh but I have yet to find a good windows forum

Tux Aubrey
February 17th, 2009, 11:21 AM
http://penguinpetes.com/images/TuxAvatar_Libertux_avatar.pngGive me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to http://grubbn.org/otheros or http://www.cafelinux.org/forum/ or http://www.linuxquestions.org/ or http://cafelinux.org/xubuntuforums/index.php
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sorry to see the end of UFOOST. I agree that it was the best general Linux help forum around and helped break down barriers and for that Ubuntu-Geek should be thanked. Hopefully one or more of the others will pick up where UF left off.

After Tutorials, it was my favorite sub-forum (even though there were some Arch users there sometimes;) )

der_joachim
February 17th, 2009, 12:11 PM
We will likely move them into the General Help category, with a new prefix or tag.

Sounds like a bad idea. The General Help forum is already huge.



I won't be sad when the arch users go. Especially when I have to read post's from them like this.


Have you actually ever read the arch subforum or are you trolling?



If the forum had to eliminate a section, why not "Other OS Talk". This is an Ubuntu forum.


Suuuuuuuuurrrrreeeee. Let's just dump the cafe as well. [/sarcasm]

handy
February 17th, 2009, 12:58 PM
I have just put the new Other OS Talk (http://grubbn.org/otheros/index.php) forum link in my signature, in the hope that enough regulars come & join to make it work & to fill in the hole.

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 01:04 PM
I don't think you will get penalised.

Post your link?

http://dragos240.000hosted.com/forum/
(http://ubuntuforums.org/Dragos240.000hosted.com/forum/)

handy
February 17th, 2009, 01:11 PM
http://dragos240.000hosted.com/forum/
(http://ubuntuforums.org/Dragos240.000hosted.com/forum/)

You have been busy. :-)

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 01:16 PM
You have been busy. :-)

Why thank you, I just love SMF forums. Feel free to look around.

handy
February 17th, 2009, 01:19 PM
Why thank you, I just love SMF forums. Feel free to look around.

I have, I'm waiting for my activation code email. ;-)

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 01:22 PM
I have, I'm waiting for my activation code email. ;-)

Oh yes, about that, i need to fix that, it doesn't work for some odd reason, i'm going to change it so it activates automaticly, but for now, i'm activating you manually.


EDIT: I just set registration to immediate activation.

kevinmchapman
February 17th, 2009, 01:22 PM
A sad day indeed. I was an infrequent poster, but avid reader. This subforum introduced me to Arch, and I will be forever grateful for that. Fortunately I moved the last of my machines from Xubuntu last November, so there is no reason to hang around here any more (if I was a cynical person I might think that was the point...).

AlexC_
February 17th, 2009, 01:24 PM
Wait, what? Remove the Other OS talk forum - and not the incredibly pointless Forum Games? The Games forum is pretty much just spam that has no context, at least the Other OS was helpful and had a purpose.

tadcan
February 17th, 2009, 01:26 PM
The window link goes to a mircosoft site. I know they officially support there OS but it seems a bit of joke. There was plenty of unbiased help in the forum. Hopefully the replacement forums will do the same job.

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 01:32 PM
The window link goes to a mircosoft site. I know they officially support there OS but it seems a bit of joke. There was plenty of unbiased help in the forum. Hopefully the replacement forums will do the same job.

It most likely is. Although i think they have a forum too..... or not. Anyways, i couldn't really find too many big forums that did all windows related things.

Liviu-Theodor
February 17th, 2009, 02:03 PM
I also regret the decison of the forum's administrators, but nonetheless I understand it. After all, this is the Ubuntu forum, not Other OS forum, isn't it?

cmay
February 17th, 2009, 02:05 PM
:( its still very, very sad :(

Dr Small
February 17th, 2009, 02:59 PM
After reading through about 10 pages of this, it's very depressing. By the way, I'm registering at the GrubbN OS Talk Forum, and recommend others to do so as well.

kevdog
February 17th, 2009, 03:08 PM
I try some other sites.

I guess I don't understand this whole mess. Shuttleworth sometimes reads the forums, so this is my opinion. The ubuntu forums is the main promotional tool for your distribution. It brings together all types. Why would you want to alienate some of your user base, (and some of the most knowledgeable people on the forums) by disposing of the Other OS Talk? Canonical has deep pockets, and I'm sure if it came down to a question of money, they could hire UG full time along with a few others to maintain a healthy collection of servers with unlimited hard drive space. Rather than restricting information being put on the forums, I would think the opposite would be an appropriate strategy. Invite opinion and discussion from all aspects. Again I see the forums as the "face" behind Ubuntu. Without the open discussion on the forums, I believe Ubuntu would quickly blend into the landscape with other Linux distributions.

Sorivenul
February 17th, 2009, 04:17 PM
So, I've slept on it now, and hours later with a good night's sleep under me I still can't comprehend this solution. The few explanations we've had have not satisfied me, sadly.

Let me expound:

The Cafe is a vital part of the forums and was not considered for removal, although we may prune threads older than a year or so at some point.

The games bit is actually a part of the Cafe. It only has its own section to remove clutter from the Cafe. They really take very little resources. We will likely prune this area as well.

Ubuntuforums.org has two main purposes: to provide tech support for Ubuntu Linux, and to give an outlet for people in the Ubuntu community to interact on a more social level. Anything that does not serve either of those two purposes is being questioned.
I understand that the Cafe in general is a vital part of the Forums. It does provide a social outlet for users, and there are frequently stimulating discussions.

However, the Cafe Games, despite having their own subforum, are not that important, in my opinion and probably some other user's opinions. Threads like The BUMP Thread, Word Association, The Banning Game, and Post your CTRL+V's provide no support to users other than a way to kill time while waiting for some thread to update. It does not provide tech support for Ubuntu, and the interactions are reduced to "bumping", posting single words or phrases, and loading posts with ;):p:o:popcorn:.

If the stated are the main two purposes of Ubuntu Forums, Cafe Games does not meet these criteria either. There are probably other examples around the forums as well, but Cafe Games is the most glaringly obvious.

Now, in defense of Other OS Talk:
Other OS Talk has roughly 6 times the amount of threads in the main subforum than Cafe Games. That said, I can understand it may be cumbersome on the database. However, this should be telling as opposed to alarming.

Ubuntu is serving its purpose of being "Linux for Human Beings", and it is allowing many users to experience something they never have before. However, those Ubuntu users looking to test other waters found Other OS Talk invaluable, especially when getting started with another distribution. In that sense, Other OS Talk was providing a collective effort for not only non-Ubuntu users, but also for Ubuntu users themselves. This, to me, meets the criteria of supporting Ubuntu Linux.

In addition, it provided a familiar setting with familiar faces as opposed to forcing users to use forums that are often inactive, hostile, or in some cases non-existent. This, to meets the criteria of allowing users to interact on a social level.

I mean no offense. I just wanted to put in my two cents and point out some behavior that seems inconsistent with issued statements. However, I won't beg anyone to reconsider the action regarding Other OS Talk, as I doubt it will do any good. Just, please, consider the action in general. Peace.

Thelasko
February 17th, 2009, 04:46 PM
and what aboutg those who have windows issues, a linux forum is often more friendly then a lame tech from microsoft...
+1
The Microsoft website is hardly a substitute for that section of the forums. They could at least post a link to a Microsoft forum. I don't know of any good ones. The only thing I'm aware of is that stupid expertsexchange site.

It looks like I'm going to have a few more usernames and passwords to keep track of...

Antman
February 17th, 2009, 04:47 PM
it's really a shame that they had to close it. Other os talk was one of the only reasons why i still use ubuntu forums.
+1

will1911a1
February 17th, 2009, 04:52 PM
This is a disheartening decision. The official Arch forums just don't have the same feel to them as the Arch subforum here does.

BGFG
February 17th, 2009, 05:19 PM
Bring it back. Take away another forum, it was my second most used forum. :(

The Ubuntu forums aren't just about Ubuntu, they're also very useful for other distros.

I think that is exactly the point. The Ubuntu forums ARE just about Ubuntu :) Over the years it seems to have been treated as 'Linux General Forums' but Canonical has a product, and this is it's forum.

this move may well force some needed traffic into the right channels and bring other forums up to par. At least that is my hope.

But I too will sorely miss other OS talk.

snowpine
February 17th, 2009, 05:40 PM
While I question the decision, I wish the Forums the best of luck with the new Ubuntu-only format... I am thankful for all the advice I've received here over the past year. :)

Sand & Mercury
February 17th, 2009, 06:08 PM
A regrettable day indeed, but understandable. :(

Vince4Amy
February 17th, 2009, 06:55 PM
Well that will be less time on here then. Close Other OS and not Community Café not a great decision but oh well, there's always Linuxquestions.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 06:58 PM
Sorry, but this is kind of dumb from the forum management point of view, IMO. You can't really control what people choose to post, so it makes sense to try and "canalize" the generated discourse, split it into a logical and transparent structure. The best thing about having Other OS forum category was that other OS discussions could be redirected to a specific location, so that they don't interfere with Ubuntu specific discussions. Now you're just going to have Other OS discussions, questions and queries all over the place instead -- unless your plan is to make moderation much more heavy-handed.

true. we'll see how they like it when people start asking questions about debian and mint, mixed in all over the place.

it was the wrong decision, plain and simple. i would use more expletives to describe my thoughts on the matter, but....

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 07:01 PM
is closing down 1 forum really going to make that much of a difference to mark shuttleworth's bottom line? i doubt it. something really stinks around here, and it smells like...

no two ways about it, fools and idiots rule this world.

schauerlich
February 17th, 2009, 07:05 PM
is closing down 1 forum really going to make that much of a difference to mark shuttleworth's bottom line? i doubt it. something really stinks around here, and it smells like...

no two ways about it, fools and idiots rule this world.

I think you overestimate SABDFL's influence on the forums. Basically everything is left up to the admins. They've been asking for better servers for a long time, and although they did recently get some better hardware, it still isn't the best.

And anyways, they're trying to trim the database. Whenever there are irregularities and they have to check it, it takes basically a full day out of U-G's life to check all of the millions of lines of the tables. That's why our downtime takes so long, because the database is so huge. Better hardware could make it go faster, but the easiest way to speed it up is to have a smaller database.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 07:06 PM
Wait, what? Remove the Other OS talk forum - and not the incredibly pointless Forum Games? The Games forum is pretty much just spam that has no context, at least the Other OS was helpful and had a purpose.

thank you. i guess the upper management has taken the narrow viewpoint approach to things. way to go and alienate people!

@#%$ *$#! <---take a guess what this says.

TravisNewman
February 17th, 2009, 07:06 PM
is closing down 1 forum really going to make that much of a difference to mark shuttleworth's bottom line? i doubt it. something really stinks around here, and it smells like...

no two ways about it, fools and idiots rule this world.
It has nothing to do with Mark Shuttleworth's bottom line. It's a matter of the database getting hammered on the hardware that the forums are run on. Other OS Talk was not the only forum closed, there were many others, and many older posts were pruned. I have also seen reference to staffing in Other OS Talk, suggesting that the admins should have asked the regulars if they wanted to moderate there. Again, it's not a matter of staffing, it's a matter of the database server.

As for the forum games sub-forum... people are going to play those games, and there's almost no way to stop that. I personally have never been to a forum that didn't have some sort of Word Association or "The person before you" games going. This organization (having it in it's own sub-forum) gets the games out of the Cafe so that it doesn't get in the way of the rest of the discussions.

bapoumba
February 17th, 2009, 07:07 PM
Wolfen, please. The rationale behind the decision was mainly to channel the traffic back to the other OSes communities, which I see as a very positive move for the other communities. There is no real reason to keep here all the help regarding all Linux distributions.

I have to say it took me some time to adapt to the idea :)

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 07:10 PM
but the easiest way to speed it up is to have a smaller database.

so why trim the fat by getting rid of one of the best loved forums? have people gone completely insane? is the community games section needed?

TravisNewman
February 17th, 2009, 07:12 PM
so why trim the fat by getting rid of one of the best loved forums? have people gone completely insane? is the community games section needed?
See my response above. The forum games section necessary in the fact that if it were not there, those threads would still exist in the cafe. The human animal is apparently hardwired to play forum games. ;)

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 07:13 PM
Wolfen, please. The rationale behind the decision was mainly to channel the traffic back to the other OSes communities, which I see as a very positive move for the other communities. There is no real reason to keep here all the help regarding all Linux distributions.

I have to say it took me some time to adapt to the idea :)

do you really think that ubuntu is "stealing" that many people from other distros forums that ubuntu has to release people back to their rightful place?

i'm done. goodbye. of all the idiotic things i've seen, this takes the cake. i guess you can't reason with the mentally challenged.

imlinux
February 17th, 2009, 07:19 PM
in my personal opinion this is not very wise decision.whatever maybe the cause of such decision but its certainly not welcomed.maybe you can remove "games & leisure " forum,but not "other OS".it sends a wrong message to rest of people out there.there is difference between microsoft kind of approach and us that difference should be maintained.

KiwiNZ
February 17th, 2009, 07:20 PM
Please keep faith in the staff , the decision has been made in the best interest of the Forum as a whole

notwen
February 17th, 2009, 07:20 PM
I'll miss it, although as of late I've done less tinkering and just being happy w/ working systems; More reading, less posting. In the past year or two I've began to only check two sub-forums and this was one of them. As a techie person I understand the staff's situation, but at the same time as a uf user I also understand the other user's disbelief/disappointment in the closing of the Other OS sub-forum.

Oh well, we'll all manage some how, whether it be over at a new forum or something else. My regards to both forum admins/staff and the regulars of the Other OS sub-forum. =|

macogw
February 17th, 2009, 07:27 PM
Look guys. We don't have the hardware to support a forum this big. Haven't you noticed how the forums have gone down nearly every day for the last 3 months? It's because the hardware can't deal with it, and we have no idea when we will get hardware that CAN deal with a database of this size and with the load. If we have more than a couple people performing searches at the same time, the database server can crawl to a halt. We just can't take the load, so we had to get rid of something!

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 07:29 PM
Look guys. We don't have the hardware to support a forum this big. Haven't you noticed how the forums have gone down nearly every day for the last 3 months? It's because the hardware can't deal with it, and we have no idea when we will get hardware that CAN deal with a database of this size and with the load. If we have more than a couple people performing searches at the same time, the database server can crawl to a halt. We just can't take the load, so we had to get rid of something!

Hmm.... Couldn't you guys get like 20 servers with debian/ubuntu and make them switch to another when one goes down? That would work wouldn't it?

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 07:30 PM
Please keep faith in the staff , the decision has been made in the best interest of the Forum as a whole

if you were doing things for the best interest of the forums, you would have kept it. other OS talk was one of the things that separated ubuntuforums from the rest. very bad decision. are the decision makers here suffering from other OS phobia?

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Look guys. We don't have the hardware to support a forum this big.

then get rid of the stupid games section if it's a problem.

TravisNewman
February 17th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Hmm.... Couldn't you guys get like 20 servers with debian/ubuntu and make them switch to another when one goes down? That would work wouldn't it?
It would work, if you're planning on donating the other 19 ;)

TravisNewman
February 17th, 2009, 07:32 PM
if you were doing things for the best interest of the forums, you would have kept it. other OS talk was one of the things that separated ubuntuforums from the rest. very bad decision. are the decision makers here suffering from other OS phobia?
Would you rather have a forum with an other OS section that goes down almost every day, or one without it that is more stable?

TravisNewman
February 17th, 2009, 07:33 PM
then get rid of the stupid games section if it's a problem.
I've mentioned at least twice why that is still around.

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 07:35 PM
It would work, if you're planning on donating the other 19 ;)

My school has like 50 white computers that used to run on 98 and their throwing them all away, i'm sure i can get some, in fact i was planning on using some for my own server, and our principal said that i can have some, so sure.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 07:38 PM
Would you rather have a forum with an other OS section that goes down almost every day, or one without it that is more stable?

so you're saying that 1 sub forum caused the servers to crash? please. this has become a joke. it does not surprise me that the people who run this forum are having problems. you can't even fix the "thread solved" or "thanks" issues.

TravisNewman
February 17th, 2009, 07:38 PM
My school has like 50 white computers that used to run on 98 and their throwing them all away, i'm sure i can get some, in fact i was planning on using some for my own server, and our principal said that i can have some, so sure.
Ah, those reaaaally wouldn't handle the forums. A personal server sure, but not what we have here.

TravisNewman
February 17th, 2009, 07:39 PM
so you're saying that 1 sub forum caused the servers to crash? please. this has become a joke. it does not surprise me that the people who run this forum are having problems. you can't even fix the "thread solved" or "thanks" issues.
No, not entirely, which is why others were closed as well. It decreases the database hits. I'm also not saying the forums won't go down anymore, I'm saying that they'll go down less.

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 07:41 PM
Ah, those reaaaally wouldn't handle the forums. A personal server sure, but not what we have here.

Then what specs would you recommend? I really would like to help and i have an xp that i might be able to upgrade.

Vince4Amy
February 17th, 2009, 07:42 PM
No, not entirely, which is why others were closed as well. It decreases the database hits. I'm also not saying the forums won't go down anymore, I'm saying that they'll go down less.

Actually it seemed to me that the forum was coping much better once "Thanks" and "Thread Solved" were taken away, most of the problems with it going down were prior to that.

bapoumba
February 17th, 2009, 07:44 PM
so you're saying that 1 sub forum caused the servers to crash? please. this has become a joke. it does not surprise me that the people who run this forum are having problems. you can't even fix the "thread solved" or "thanks" issues.
Other sub-forums have been removed. It is not only about the Other OS Talk.
"Thread Solved" And "Thanks" were plugins giving issues. This is why the forums software was also upgraded yesterday.

Edit: at some point we were also running on two servers, one was having issues. We are back on one only.

macogw
February 17th, 2009, 07:45 PM
so you're saying that 1 sub forum caused the servers to crash? please. this has become a joke. it does not surprise me that the people who run this forum are having problems. you can't even fix the "thread solved" or "thanks" issues.

Um, multiple forums are being closed on here. And why do you think Thread Solved and Thanks are broken? Because of the database. We're trying to cut out all the fat we can so the forums can stay up for a full 24-hours straight.

I still wish the Spam Decimator hadn't had to go for the sake of the database :(

KiwiNZ
February 17th, 2009, 07:45 PM
Please please keep faith with the staff. they know what they are doing , they know how hard it has been to keep these forums running.

These decisions are not made on a whim , they are carefully considered.

I ask you all to be patient and think of the Forum as a whole.


if you were doing things for the best interest of the forums, you would have kept it. other OS talk was one of the things that separated ubuntuforums from the rest. very bad decision. are the decision makers here suffering from other OS phobia?

TravisNewman
February 17th, 2009, 07:48 PM
Then what specs would you recommend? I really would like to help and i have an xp that i might be able to upgrade.
We're probably talking like $10,000 servers here. I'm not exactly sure of the price tag, but a PC wouldn't cut it. A good web/db server needs far more than a PC can give, even the expensive PCs.

And we're definitely not asking for donations. I said that jokingly :)

SunnyRabbiera
February 17th, 2009, 07:50 PM
Sorry its kind of hard to have faith right now.
I found the other OS talk very useful for those who wanted to learn about other distros and OS's.
At this rate I would not be surprised if the Cafe was next and every other forum that doesnt have to do with Ubuntu.
Seriously if you wanted to cut the fat you could have done it in another way...

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 07:53 PM
Honestly i'm sick of people complaining about how the forum is down and some things are being closed and others don't work. We're a forum for heck sake, let's stick together and put our heads together to think of solutions. Why do we fight, it's really not solving anything at all. I really want to donate my xp, i'm going to format it to linux, and possibly install debian or ubuntu for a server, it has some decent specs also. I really want to help this community here, but nobody can really do that if we keep arguing over broken and disabled things.

EDIT: Also this would be a good time for the forum to give their fair share of the job here. So i'm going to donate soon, probably 15 bucks or something, but hopefully it will help in some way.

EDIT 2: Also there is a button on the ubuntu webpage, but what about here? I'm going to look around.

ghindo
February 17th, 2009, 08:02 PM
I feel like this thread is taking a negative direction; the admins obviously did this because they thought it would be for the benefit of the entire forum. There's no conspiracy to keep other Linux distributions down, and no, Mark Shuttleworth isn't up in space laughing maniacally at our plight.

I want Other OS Talk back as much as the other guy, but for the time being, we gotta accept that the admins are struggling with an enormous database and limited resources.

Vince4Amy
February 17th, 2009, 08:04 PM
I feel like this thread is taking a negative direction; the admins obviously did this because they thought it would be for the benefit of the entire forum. There's no conspiracy to keep other Linux distributions down, and no, Mark Shuttleworth isn't up in space laughing maniacally at our plight.

I want Other OS Talk back as much as the other guy, but for the time being, we gotta accept that the admins are struggling with an enormous database and limited resources.

The stuff will probably just be posted in other forums on here instead, so it really won't make much difference in the long run.

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 08:05 PM
I feel like this thread is taking a negative direction; the admins obviously did this because they thought it would be for the benefit of the entire forum. There's no conspiracy to keep other Linux distributions down, and no, Mark Shuttleworth isn't up in space laughing maniacally at our plight.

I want Other OS Talk back as much as the other guy, but for the time being, we gotta accept that the admins are struggling with an enormous database and limited resources.

Agreed, it really is. Honestly i just want to help if I can.

glotz
February 17th, 2009, 08:06 PM
What a sad day.

wolfen69
February 17th, 2009, 08:09 PM
The stuff will probably just be posted in other forums on here instead, so it really won't make much difference in the long run.

i encourage everyone to post their other OS questions in the cafe. then they will see what a mistake it was.

Vince4Amy
February 17th, 2009, 08:11 PM
i encourage everyone to post their other OS questions in the cafe. then they will see what a mistake it was.

There are already threads being posted here is An Example (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1072581)

dragos240
February 17th, 2009, 08:16 PM
i encourage everyone to post their other OS questions in the cafe. then they will see what a mistake it was.

Will you please stop this wolfen? They have a huge stuffed up database, do you want ubuntuforums to keep crashing 24/7 to keep 1 subforum afloat? The human race needs games to survive, something had to go and already 2 members, including myself have made a duplicate subforum in our forums for an alternative. What did ubuntuforums do to you? They support a huge community for zero dollars and zero cents 24/7 around the clock. How would you like to do that? It's a huge responcibility, have some respect, their trying their best as it is. Seriously, if you don't like it, fine, just stop complaining! They did this so that we the posters of ubuntuforums could thrive. Can you get all of that into your head?

doorknob60
February 17th, 2009, 08:18 PM
Aww, I liked that forum. Oh well.

Vince4Amy
February 17th, 2009, 08:18 PM
do you want ubuntuforums to keep crashing 24/7 to keep 1 subforum afloat?

It actually stopped crashing as much after Thanks and Solved were removed. Well I'll say I never noticed it go down since that went.

Also as said before, it's not going to stop it as the questions will just be asked in a different Sub-Forum.

rickyjones
February 17th, 2009, 08:32 PM
I use both Ubuntu and Windows. In general the Ubuntu Forums has been the greatest community I've ever posted in. I enjoyed helping people in the Windows forum specifically because that is where a lot of my experience is.

To remove the entire Other OS forum in the name of database stability is not a good reason, in my opinion. If it comes down to not enough hardware then it is time to take up donations and volunteers to help out. I'd be willing to donate my time at the minimum to help keep the entire community here. I'm sure others will as well.

I've been a member on many forums and this has been the greatest. The openness and friendliness has been amazing. It is sad to see a great portion of this community be tossed aside - I strongly urge the staff to reconsider what they prune.

What are the specs of our server? Can a second server be added to help with the load? Do we have a second server? There are a lot of possibilities to consider before removing a large portion of this community.

Without the Windows sub-forum I feel my usefulness here will be coming to an end (however useful I was, I felt I was at least somewhat useful in some threads...).

Thanks,
Richard

macogw
February 17th, 2009, 09:02 PM
It actually stopped crashing as much after Thanks and Solved were removed. Well I'll say I never noticed it go down since that went.

Also as said before, it's not going to stop it as the questions will just be asked in a different Sub-Forum.

It was down yesterday :P

Dr Small
February 17th, 2009, 09:03 PM
[...] Good Luck and please consider seeking some form of professional assistance.

Oh please...

macogw
February 17th, 2009, 09:04 PM
i encourage everyone to post their other OS questions in the cafe. then they will see what a mistake it was.

Do you know what happens to spammers?

Dr Small
February 17th, 2009, 09:06 PM
Do you know what happens to spammers?
Posting questions in a forum related to software/foss/linux/os is not considered spam.

macogw
February 17th, 2009, 09:08 PM
Posting questions in a forum related to software/foss/linux/os is not considered spam.

He's encouraging people to flood the not-help part of the forum with help requests for other OSes...which includes Windows and OSX (which are not FOSS)...rather than going to forums about those topics. So, yeah, he's kind of encouraging spam.

Vince4Amy
February 17th, 2009, 09:12 PM
It was down yesterday

Whilst I'm aware of that, I thought it was down for the reason of removing and pruning things. Not because of load.

PythonPower
February 17th, 2009, 09:15 PM
He's encouraging people to flood the not-help part of the forum with help requests for other OSes...

There's nothing in the original post to imply "flood"; nor is there anything about "help requests" (just "questions"). ;)

Vince4Amy
February 17th, 2009, 09:21 PM
How about remove the other subforums in other OS talk but leave it there as it's self in a category like Community Café.

bapoumba
February 17th, 2009, 09:22 PM
Questions regarding other OSes can go to ABT or GH with the [other] tag (I cannot recall if it is set up already, I'll check. Edit: yes, it's there).

macogw
February 17th, 2009, 09:22 PM
There's nothing in the original post to imply "flood"; nor is there anything about "help requests" (just "questions"). ;)

Ah, but given the amount of traffic that was in Other OS before, it would amount to a flood of traffic in the Cafe, where we have rules about pulling up threads from more than a few pages back.

Technoviking
February 17th, 2009, 09:23 PM
This thread has run it course and now people are getting insulting. I'm going to close the thread for review, probably for good.

If people wish, we can discuss this at our next Forum Council meeting, held sometime in March. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda

Thanks for your comments and feedback.

T-V

jdong
February 17th, 2009, 11:30 PM
I've reviewed this thread and agree with the action to close it. We hear you guys and are working on setting up a meeting so we can discuss this.