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View Full Version : *certifications, whats hot, whats not*



kruz
December 21st, 2005, 07:31 AM
starting in the IT world, based ur your guys' knowledge
what do you think are the most sought after, butmaybe not obtained
computer certifications, the ones that are in most demand

any thoughts?
thanx `KruZ~OUT

darth_vector
December 21st, 2005, 08:40 AM
CCIE. im led to believe that those that have one - there may be some in this forum - can basically write their own paycheck.

agger
December 21st, 2005, 09:07 AM
CCIE. im led to believe that those that have one - there may be some in this forum - can basically write their own paycheck.

What kind of certifications are you thinking of here?
I don't have any, and I never saw that as a problem - finding jobs as a developer has always been easy enough anyway ... :-)

darth_vector
December 21st, 2005, 09:11 AM
absolutely. most people that work in IT have no formal qualifications at all. they do help someone without any experience to get at interview though.

if you have any of the higher level cisco certs, the MCSE's or the linux certs then you should have no trouble finding a job, but there is no substitute for experience. having said that, there is no way you could get something like a CCIE without heaps of experience.

briancurtin
December 21st, 2005, 09:23 AM
a degree, that is all.

im about to graduate in may, and of all of the contacts i have made over the last bunch of years (from entry level, to a former CIO), plus my father who is a development hiring manager at a top (unnamed) investment bank, every single person has said basically "f*** certifications," and even in those words sometimes. if you have a certification and you make a mistake, see you later. that is their take on the situation for the most part. this is what i know of IT in the bigger finance groups, but there could be places within finance that want certifications and certainly there are areas that like to see them but i dont plan on ever getting one.

kruz
December 21st, 2005, 03:28 PM
so you guys think that its not necessary?
because im only 15
and im getting my a+ cert tomorrow
basic hardware/software

i cant really go to college yet, i thought i would jumpstart
my carreer, if certifications arent the way to go
wut do u guys suggest is? for someone my age

but yes im interested in alot of things
just computers in general, i would love working with any aspect of it


i really just want to know what field is in the highest demand right now

felixdzerzhinsky
December 21st, 2005, 03:41 PM
Certifications don't hurt. They do help you get past recruiters. I would say continue to study for them as long as it does not get in the way of your High School. Then go to College. If you can get any type of work experience even with a volunteer organisation get it.

For information security recruiters tend to like the CISSP. But you can't get that without work experience now. My boss who worked for GCHQ rates www.sans.org training quite highly. I did the GSEC training and found it pretty good. Still studying for the exam. Most of the material is similar to the CISSP so I hope to have both by the end of next year.

As you are a high school student you might not have a lot of money. You might be interested in the free Linux Professional Institute www.lpi.org tutorials put out by IBM:

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/lpi/index.html

Sometimes at Linuxworld and some of the Hacker meetings you can take the exams for free or cheap.

curuxz
December 21st, 2005, 04:08 PM
Certifications by deffinition are bad bad bad bad news, now many people will probs disagree but as both a small business owner and degree student (not doing computers because of my view of computer degrees) I think the hallmark of a bad computer user is certficiation esp the Microsoft ones (nothing against MS just the fact that they are so basic and so unrealisitc).

Computer degrees and certficiates mean this to me :

1) I'm to stupid to learn my self
2) I'm limited to one feild or only the areas covered by my peice of paper
3) I'm totaly impractical in the real world (there are some exepetions for a few qualifications)
4) Computers are just a job, I lernt at uni/college and im here to earn a pay check then go home, no passion means no good work.

Just my view, treat your computer work like your an artist make a porfolio that can be printed out as a c.v style booklet with samples of what you can do and have done, give that in EVEN if a job advert says it wants a certain peice of paper because it shows your dynamic, self confiedent and have true skill not just learning through repetition (LTR effect, worse type of employee)

:)

M3ta7h3ad
December 21st, 2005, 05:09 PM
the ISO certs are more worthwhile if your thinking of becoming a contractor.

While things like the MCSE, CISSP, CCNA and other whatsits are good for general jobs. ISO certs dealing with network security and so on are highly regarded. However due to the elitist nature of the certification, most people who have one are complete arses (like gentoo users :D "I R 1337").

M3ta7h3ad
December 21st, 2005, 05:18 PM
Certifications by deffinition are bad bad bad bad news, now many people will probs disagree but as both a small business owner and degree student (not doing computers because of my view of computer degrees) I think the hallmark of a bad computer user is certficiation esp the Microsoft ones (nothing against MS just the fact that they are so basic and so unrealisitc).

Computer degrees and certficiates mean this to me :

1) I'm to stupid to learn my self
2) I'm limited to one feild or only the areas covered by my peice of paper
3) I'm totaly impractical in the real world (there are some exepetions for a few qualifications)
4) Computers are just a job, I lernt at uni/college and im here to earn a pay check then go home, no passion means no good work.

Just my view, treat your computer work like your an artist make a porfolio that can be printed out as a c.v style booklet with samples of what you can do and have done, give that in EVEN if a job advert says it wants a certain peice of paper because it shows your dynamic, self confiedent and have true skill not just learning through repetition (LTR effect, worse type of employee)

:)

ROFLMAO! So you employ artists to secure your network?

learning through repetition? you do realise this is about the ONLY way to learn? Unless you count "googling for your needs" a way of learning? Personally I prefer people who know what they are doing on their computers because they are familiar with them to the extent that they have passed degrees, and/or certification tests telling me so.

Your also forgetting that certifications CERTIFY a person in a field, they dont teach a person anything, or rather you shouldnt do them unless you know the information previous to doing the exams.


give that in EVEN if a job advert says it wants a certain peice of paper because it shows your dynamic, self confiedent and have true skill not just learning through repetition (LTR effect, worse type of employee)


No.. it shows that you cant read instructions (e.g. the request for the "bit of paper" in the job advert), and that you are clutching at straws because you didnt actually put any effort in when you were younger.

kruz
December 21st, 2005, 07:04 PM
i got my masters in counter strike ;p

lol jk

i live in huntsville alabama, and i think a+ is a good start, people around me recommend getting my network+/security+ right after this one
think it is a good idea? and also thanx for all the help guys i truely appreciate it

just trying to find where the most money is, because i love all aspects of computers

and i do have a job now as a network admin/hardware tech at a small(less than 30 pc's) realastate school/appraisal office
so that will be good for the resume

any other advice on what i should do right now im thinking
a+,
then MSCE, CCNA, LPI
for my next 3 in any random order
think i should start looking for a job?

thanx again guys, htis means alot
`KruZ~out

alsa wana pick up on programming but dont know where ot start
u think knowing c++, or java or anything will help?or should i focus on the certs more
and what prog lang is the best to start with in ur opinion
thanx again
kruz

ps 1, ccie there are only 10,000 people in the world that have it as of december 2k5
and its 1250 dollars to take the exam
i wana get that one day

ps2, to the person that said certifications are worthless focus on learning a pc, ur a moron

because certifications show u that, you have learned your stuff, and you know, its proving that u know things

auburn
December 21st, 2005, 07:26 PM
I like what curuxz says about banking on certifications too much. My own experience is that studying for the certifications (and maybe not taking the exams) will teach you a lot. I went to linux cert studygroup meeting here in new york and thoroughly enjoyed myself and learned a lot.

How about a compromise between what curuxz says and the corporate world? Study only for the exams that are challenging and fun for you. Use it as a learning tool.

felixdzerzhinsky
December 22nd, 2005, 11:21 AM
Kruz,

You sound pretty switched on. Nothing wrong with doing Certifications. But also get the education. Plus you are lucky. Sounds like you are already getting some experience.

You might also like this article on Slashdot from Fyodor:

Look for:

4) Stepping into a network security career
by Anonymous Coward

http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/30/1148235

and:

A certifiable path to Linux Jobs

http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8086042393.html

"the people hiring Linux-workers are more likely to be in human resources than in IT. That, in turn, means you're more likely to be judged by your degrees and certifications than by your experience and skills." Sad but true.

M3ta7h3ad
December 22nd, 2005, 11:40 AM
If your interested in getting programming certs, I advise going with .net :) C#.net seems the most popular of the lot, and my employer actually supplies MCSE/MCSA/MCSD/MCDBA/MCAD/MOS/CIW courses for distance learning in the UK :)

That said however we supply the VB.net only route (for no special reason that I can find).

I think if your really interested in persuing certifications, then go for it, however treat them as certifications. Only certify what you already know, dont learn the exam prep and then say your a network engineer because you recited from memory the revision books.

Better forum to ask Cert related questions on: Http://www.certforums.co.uk :)

greenway
December 22nd, 2005, 11:58 AM
If your interested in getting programming certs, I advise going with .net :) C#.net seems the most popular of the lot, and my employer actually supplies MCSE/MCSA/MCSD/MCDBA/MCAD/MOS/CIW courses for distance learning in the UK :)

That said however we supply the VB.net only route (for no special reason that I can find).

I think if your really interested in persuing certifications, then go for it, however treat them as certifications. Only certify what you already know, dont learn the exam prep and then say your a network engineer because you recited from memory the revision books.

Better forum to ask Cert related questions on: Http://www.certforums.co.uk :)

Argh!! Please don't get this youngster hooked on MS crap, the damage might be irreversible!!

Back to topic; I strongly agree on what has been said about there being no substitute for experience. You can get all the certifications you want, but without the right working exeperience to go with it, it still doesn't mean all that much...

About the programming, I would start by learning Python. It's a fun, easy yet powerfull language and great for learning the basics on programming.

... I just wish I would have been as enthousiastic at my 15th as you are...

kruz
December 22nd, 2005, 08:58 PM
Argh!! Please don't get this youngster hooked on MS crap, the damage might be irreversible!!

Back to topic; I strongly agree on what has been said about there being no substitute for experience. You can get all the certifications you want, but without the right working exeperience to go with it, it still doesn't mean all that much...

About the programming, I would start by learning Python. It's a fun, easy yet powerfull language and great for learning the basics on programming.

... I just wish I would have been as enthousiastic at my 15th as you are...
\


ha thanx, i hope this enthusiam stays with me for now on the list
ill be working as a junior level network admin at my dads office complex
and the best buy geek squad, the pc tech, not the nubs up front

so those to jobs to juggle
while learning, my goals

1. learning python
2. getting my LPI
i started reading that lpi in a nutshell., but someone got me hooked on a+, thats been my life that last 6 months, ima just go pass the exam, and back to the real life of LPI

my friend, mark, that wrote gaim, and my friend matt that is a developer for astrisk(the pbx company that makes VOIP phone systems off linux) are based here in huntsville and he said if i got even my junior level 1 LPI cert that he could get me a job

that sound good for now? any more suggestions?
and thanx for all the advice and suggestions and push/encore
helps me alot