Firefox exec: we don't want to be bundled with Windows

[newbie2]

Firefox architect Mike Connor says he doesn't want the browser bundled with Windows, whilst launching a scathing attack on rival Opera's tactics.
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246913/firefox-exec-we-dont-want-to-be-bundled-with-windows.html
:P

[kaldor]

Microsoft could be forced to bundle rival browsers with Windows, after the EU ruled the company had abused its monopoly by bundling Internet Explorer with Windows. A charge brought before the watchdog by browser minnow Opera.

I don't like Microsoft a whole lot, but this does seem really stupid to me. It reminds me of a jealous whining child who can't get their own way.

[billgoldberg]

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246913/firefox-exec-we-dont-want-to-be-bundled-with-windows.html
:P

If a OEM or MS wants to include Firefox, I believe they can do so.

[smartboyathome]

If Opera does become bundled with Windows instead of IE, I still won't use it. Firefox works just fine for me. I don't think Firefox COULD be bundled with Windows, anyway, due to incompatible licenses.

[Simian Man]

I don't think Firefox COULD be bundled with Windows, anyway, due to incompatible licenses.

Of course it could be bundeled. You can distribute software with parts licensed differently.

I personally think that Firefox saying that they don't want to be bundled is a jibe at Opera. Basically Opera is arguing that the reason nobody uses their browser is that it isn't bundled. So Firefox says, "No we're doing just fine thanks".

Opera kind of fails to meet any demographic. Non-power-users who use what their computer came with will use IE or Safari while power users tend to go with OSS and customizable Firefox.

[eragon100]

I use opera. Why? Because it's fast, stable, has bittorrent support integrated, has an email program integrated, has a very easy theme manager with which you can install lots and lots of themes made by the community. I love it.

The fact that it is closed source isn't even on my list of things to look at. I don't want to change the source anyway.

[Vince4Amy]

I use opera. Why? Because it's fast, stable, has bittorrent support integrated, has an email program integrated, has a very easy theme manager with which you can install lots and lots of themes made by the community. I love it.

The fact that it is closed source isn't even on my list of things to look at. I don't want to change the source anyway.

+1, Opera is Awesome.

[chucky chuckaluck]

Opera's problem is that it works, but it doesn't stay out of the way. There's a little too much to distract you from the content.

i kind of agree with that. the toolbars are thicker than my friend joey and editing themes is a little over my head. it's speed really doesn't make up for its shortcomings, for me.

[ranch hand]

You have to be perceptibly better [than Internet Explorer]," Connor added.

I have never used Opera but would bee surprised if it is not better than IE.

[rootie]

the toolbars are thicker than my friend joey

oh you did not just.

[p_quarles]

I guess this guy wasn't speaking on behalf of his employer:
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/firefox-thrown-eu-s-fight-against-microsoft-48875

[blueshiftoverwatch]

I use opera. Why? Because it's fast, stable, has bittorrent support integrated, has an email program integrated...
I prefer the Unix philosophy of having one program that does one thing and does it well. Email and bittorrent support in a web browser? What's next, microwave ovens with built in toasters?

[Faolan84]

From an OEM standpoint if I were in charge of deciding what software would go on a Windows computer I would bundle Firefox on all computers -OR- even better. Ship the computers with a standard Windows install and then supply a disc with bundled software. The user could then choose to install from the disc a choice of:

OSS programs like Pidgin, Infra-Recorder, OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, CDex, 7zip, ClamWin, Gimp, Foobar2000, Inkscape, the Gimp, Sumatra PDF, and TrueCrypt.

Non-OSS programs: Spybot S&D, Ad-Aware, µTorrent, Adobe Flash & Shockwave, MS Silverlight, Sun Java, iTunes, DeliPlayer 2, WinAMP, plus some custom OEM provided tools that actually help with system maintenance.

I would make available trough a website things suck as MS Office and other safe know proprietary software along with a free software (OSS) repo. The idea would be to give the consumer a choice. The reason I would provide mostly FOSS by default is because it does everything most people need it to do, it's stable, and it would not cost the company a dime in royalty fees -- although, some money would be given back to the various projects to help further their development.

Maybe I should apply for the position of company president or CEO at Gateway or HP since they seem to be going under.

[Grant A.]

From an OEM standpoint if I were in charge of deciding what software would go on a Windows computer I would bundle Firefox on all computers -OR- even better. Ship the computers with a standard Windows install and then supply a disc with bundled software. The user could then choose to install from the disc a choice of:

OSS programs like Pidgin, Infra-Recorder, OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, CDex, 7zip, ClamWin, Gimp, Foobar2000, Inkscape, the Gimp, Sumatra PDF, and TrueCrypt.

Non-OSS programs: Spybot S&D, Ad-Aware, µTorrent, Adobe Flash & Shockwave, MS Silverlight, Sun Java, iTunes, DeliPlayer 2, WinAMP, plus some custom OEM provided tools that actually help with system maintenance.

I would make available trough a website things suck as MS Office and other safe know proprietary software along with a free software (OSS) repo. The idea would be to give the consumer a choice. The reason I would provide mostly FOSS by default is because it does everything most people need it to do, it's stable, and it would not cost the company a dime in royalty fees -- although, some money would be given back to the various projects to help further their development.

Maybe I should apply for the position of company president or CEO at Gateway or HP since they seem to be going under.

OEMs don't usually bundle proprietary programs because they want to, it's because bloatware makers (like AOL), pay them to do it. Same reason why some CDs can contain spyware/adware. :/

[cardinals_fan]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1826

An interview with the Opera CTO on this topic...

[Faolan84]

OEMs don't usually bundle proprietary programs because they want to, it's because bloatware makers (like AOL), pay them to do it. Same reason why some CDs can contain spyware/adware. :/

I did realize that, but I believe that by conducting business in an honest manner my theoretical company would a attract customers who are tired of all the bull that other companies are slinging around. A lot can be said about the mertis of being honest and treating your customers with respect, dignity, and a sense of duty.

It's like being the only honest car repairman in a large town. Everyone soon finds out the other guys have been screwing them so they go elsewhere. People will eventally find your business because word-of-mouth passes pretty fast. If someone does a great job on your car you're likely to recommend that place to friends when they need their care repaired.

It's the same with computer companies, if I buy an HP and it comes loaded with junk, then six months later that junk slows my computer to a crawl and something breaks because of it them guess who I am not recommending.

The fact is that hard work, good customer service, and good craftsmanship (for lack of a better term) does one well for any industry.

[Grant A.]

I did realize that, but I believe that by conducting business in an honest manner my theoretical company would a attract customers who are tired of all the bull that other companies are slinging around. A lot can be said about the mertis of being honest and treating your customers with respect, dignity, and a sense of duty.

It's like being the only honest car repairman in a large town. Everyone soon finds out the other guys have been screwing them so they go elsewhere. People will eventally find your business because word-of-mouth passes pretty fast. If someone does a great job on your car you're likely to recommend that place to friends when they need their care repaired.

It's the same with computer companies, if I buy an HP and it comes loaded with junk, then six months later that junk slows my computer to a crawl and something breaks because of it them guess who I am not recommending.

The fact is that hard work, good customer service, and good craftsmanship (for lack of a better term) does one well for any industry.

I believe that this is exactly why RedHat's stocks have been doing so well in contrast to other OS makers. The only problem is that due to the dirty world of business, it is nearly impossible to get the word out about your company because the sneakier companies will go to lengths like paying vendors not to stock your products. It's a dog eat dog world.

[cardinals_fan]

I believe that this is exactly why RedHat's stocks have been doing so well in contrast to other OS makers. The only problem is that due to the dirty world of business, it is nearly impossible to get the word out about your company because the sneakier companies will go to lengths like paying vendors not to stock your products. It's a dog eat dog world.
Red Hat is doing well because it targets enterprise clients who have big pocketbooks. They sell their excellent reputation as a support company (usually ranked #1 in lists of tech firms to work with).

[stopie]

I prefer the Unix philosophy of having one program that does one thing and does it well. Email and bittorrent support in a web browser? What's next, microwave ovens with built in toasters?

Actually, my wife and I fliped the house we live in now, and the house is from the 50's, and came with a relic: The stove that came with the house was actually a massive metal brick that was: stove/oven/4 power outlets on the front of the cook top/convection oven on the cooktop/2 clocks/ugly *** burnt orange paint.

Opera, like the stove-thing: it has too much going on...to the point that it made me go "eww"...just like the stove.

Whats great about FF is that it can do all that opera can do - addons - but it doesnt come with all that crap out of the box.

[chucky chuckaluck]

oh you did not just.

typical conversation with my friend joey...


joey: hey, chuck, think this jacket makes me look fat?

me: no, dude, it just makes you look navy blue.

joey: whoa! this is navy blue?!?

[amitabhishek]

I use opera. Why? Because it's fast, stable, has bittorrent support integrated, has an email program integrated, has a very easy theme manager with which you can install lots and lots of themes made by the community. I love it.

The fact that it is closed source isn't even on my list of things to look at. I don't want to change the source anyway.

These benefits of Opera has in fact become its Achilles Heel'. Too much of everything!!! Its interface can be very imposing to a beginner.

As an individual, I like Opera and use it side by side FF and Safari (WINE).

[jjpcexpert]

spybot sd is GPL and this is a flamewar

[Johnsie]

What about all the software that Ubuntu bundles with their software? Why is application x the default when application y is available? And why do the repositories only have version a when version b is available?

[blueshiftoverwatch]

Actually, my wife and I fliped the house we live in now, and the house is from the 50's, and came with a relic: The stove that came with the house was actually a massive metal brick that was: stove/oven/4 power outlets on the front of the cook top/convection oven on the cooktop/2 clocks/ugly *** burnt orange paint.
Interesting.

[Faolan84]

That's one awesome stove.

[Grant A.]

stove/oven/4 power outlets on the front of the cook top/convection oven on the cooktop/2 clocks/ugly A**-burnt orange paint.

Taking a lesson from XKCD. :)

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/hyphen.jpg

[MikeTheC]

Who's bright idea was this?

Sounds like someone's "playing a long hand" with perhaps the ultimate goal being something devious. I don't trust this.

It's not that I don't trust Mozilla, and I can appreciate their distaste over having one of their products practically usurped by Microsoft. Were I in their situation, doubtless I would feel similarly.

[tuxsheadache]

I don't understand the monopoly rule. I mean, we all know that IE is a bit *special*, but if I was Microsoft and I made my own OS, surely I am allowed to put my own browser with it?

[TheLions]

I don't understand the monopoly rule. I mean, we all know that IE is a bit *special*, but if I was Microsoft and I made my own OS, surely I am allowed to put my own browser with it?

they put their own browser in their own OS, the problem is that you can't remove their browser from their OS!

[Danny Dubya]

spybot sd is GPL and this is a flamewar
Spybot is freeware, and this isn't anything close to a flamewar.


These benefits of Opera has in fact become its Achilles Heel'. Too much of everything!!! Its interface can be very imposing to a beginner.
Really? It's that confusing? And I just thought its interface was... well, ugly.

[trivialpackets]

I prefer the Unix philosophy of having one program that does one thing and does it well. Email and bittorrent support in a web browser? What's next, microwave ovens with built in toasters?

I would totally buy one of those. I use opera on an old system, but firefox on anything modern.

[tuxsheadache]

they put their own browser in their own OS, the problem is that you can't remove their browser from their OS!
I managed to remove it, I cleansed my PC :)

[Grant A.]

I managed to remove it, I cleansed my PC :)

By doing that, you also bricked your system restore and file manager. Try running system restore, it won't work anymore.

[TravisNewman]

I prefer the Unix philosophy of having one program that does one thing and does it well. Email and bittorrent support in a web browser? What's next, microwave ovens with built in toasters?

Here you go, a microwave and toaster in one:
http://products.howstuffworks.com/sharp-warm-toasty-microwave-toaster-oven-r-55-review.htm

[Faolan84]

Old news i had one of those microwave toaster ovens when i lived in Eugune. I thought he was being sarcastic :P

[emshains]

The fact that it is closed source isn't even on my list of things to look at. I don't want to change the source anyway.


The fact that it is closed source means they can make you pay,at some point in time, for a newer version.

[Faolan84]

Yup the low cost of FOSS software is definitely one of the driving factors of it's attractiveness. You can't just be better, but you also have to ensure that you product is affordable and that you customers won't ever be forced into pay ridiculous amounts of cash in the future just to upgrade because of a change in customer and sales policy.

[tuxsheadache]

By doing that, you also bricked your system restore and file manager. Try running system restore, it won't work anymore.

I think Window's greatest threat is the fact it faced a full on format in replace for an Ubuntu.

[Faolan84]

I removed Windows from a friend's old computer with dynamite one time. Now that was fun!

[bruce89]

joey: hey, chuck, think this jacket makes me look fat?

I didn't know you were Allan Jacobsen.

You'd have to know of the Edinburgh and Scotland Loosehead prop to understand that one.


The fact that it is closed source means they can make you pay,at some point in time, for a newer version.

There is no reason why FOSS can't be sold.

Anyway, the whole thing seems odd to me, perhaps there should be a choice of text editors too? (I wish there was, Notepad's useless)