Microsoft to charge money for more than 2 apps open at once on Windows

[Grant A.]

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/09/1348255

Although it only effects netbooks, and Windows Starter Edition, Microsoft has definately lost my business. The next thing I do will be removing Windows Vista from my computer. I want no part in helping them as a company anymore what-so-ever.

Microsoft, you're dead to me.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Stupidity, especially in this economy.
This is why linux is becomming a force in netbooks.

[Kopachris]

"Just over 2 applications open at any given time"? Let's see: Firefox, OOo, Gedit, Thunderbird, and Terminal. 5>>2. I usually have multiple instances of some of them open, too.

[SuperSonic4]

Firefox and about 4 Windows Live Messenger windows

[klange]

It's 3 apps (2 is the supposed statistical average), and that is and has also been how Microsoft works.

(This is a form of legal price discrimination, if you haven't noticed.)

[SunnyRabbiera]

If they do this on the normal windows 7 you will see a big drop in consumers...
Linux's market on the netbook is ensured with this move as many will turn to linux for a cheaper alternative.

[mips]

If this is true then I say "Let them!".

I also wish they would crack down much harder on piracy and go after people like the riaa or whatever they are called.

[cmat]

Isn't this aimed for developing countries? Why bother with the app limit? It's like punishment for not buying the premium version. Also this would probably increase piracy, sure you can buy the starter edition or get premium for free off the black market.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Isn't this aimed for developing countries? Why bother with the app limit? It's like punishment for not buying the premium version. Also this would probably increase piracy, sure you can buy the starter edition or get premium for free off the black market.

arr, indeed matey :p

[Skripka]

If they do this on the normal windows 7 you will see a big drop in consumers...
Linux's market on the netbook is ensured with this move as many will turn to linux for a cheaper alternative.

Who would honestly want to buy Windows Starter Edition anyway-or Keep it? Or buy and use a machine with it? As I recall Starter Edition is only for developing countries where you can get Windows Ultimate for less than the cost of a blank DVD in the US-so it isn't like this really effects the US/EU anyway.


I don't have stats, but odds are most people just bought Vista Ultimate and didn't care for any of the others. Though they have cleared up what the differences are between versions-will consumers honestly bother with the lower versions?

[klange]

If this is true then I say "Let them!".

I also wish they would crack down much harder on piracy and go after people like the riaa or whatever they are called.

To tell you the truth, there are damn good reasons why Microsoft should be forced to put more into its piracy protection - primarily (as I mentioned before), price discrimination. By allowing people to pirate Windows, they get more of other stuff out to consumers at different price levels (ie, a large percentage of people who pirate Windows still pay for Office).

@cmat: No, it isn't (despite what some previous articles had led people to believe), it's aimed for netbooks and people who are "interested in upgrading" but want to test the water first. More importantly, netbooks.

[smartboyathome]

If this is true then I say "Let them!".

I also wish they would crack down much harder on piracy and go after people like the riaa or whatever they are called.

Yeah, let them do what they want. At the rate they're going, they might just kill themselves. ;)

[Firestem4]

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246859/windows-7-a-nonstarter-on-netbooks.html

Full story - Not necessarily about developing countries.

I can't believe Microsoft would stoop to this...

"Microsoft says the restriction is designed to ensure that users get the best possible performance from limited netbook hardware. However, it admits it will encourage netbook manufacturers to install the unrestricted Home Premium in the UK.

"It's up to the OEMs to decide on whether or not they actually pick Starter edition or Home Premium," Windows product manager, Laurence Painell, told PC Pro.

"We would obviously recommend they use Home Premium in the UK because we find the netbooks we have here are of a higher spec, but it's up to them which one they pick."

Whoever mentioned that this is legal price discrimination was very right. They are doing this to force people to buy the more expensive Windows#

Linux: http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/d/2/4/d245777abca64ece2d5d7ca0d19fddb6.png
Windows: 0

[t0p]

From the PC Pro article (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246859/windows-7-a-nonstarter-on-netbooks.html):


Microsoft denies that it's imposing an arbitrary application limit on Starter Edition to force manufacturers to adopt the more expensive Home Premium. "We need to make sure there's a clear differential between Starter Edition and Home Premium and make sure that the choice that the OEMs have got is very clear and allows them to make that decision," Painell claims.

In other words, Microsoft need to justify Home Premium's inflated price. And the only way they can do that is buy crippling the cheaper option. Nice.

This may be the catalyst that drives some more users towards Linux. But I'd imagine the major result will be increased piracy of ******* 7. Unfortunately people love Microsoft, even when it's clear that Microsoft doesn't love them.

[SunnyRabbiera]

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/246859/windows-7-a-nonstarter-on-netbooks.html

Full story - Not necessarily about developing countries.

I can't believe Microsoft would stoop to this...


Whoever mentioned that this is legal price discrimination was very right. They are doing this to force people to buy the more expensive Windows#

Linux: http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/d/2/4/d245777abca64ece2d5d7ca0d19fddb6.png
Windows: 0

actually thats:
Linux: ∞x3
Windows: 0
Manufacturers will not sacrifice cost in a time like this, especially when netbooks are SUPPOSED to be cheap.

[t0p]

Something else about this story that's irritating me all to hell. Slashdotters are saying like "Chill out! This only affects users in developing countries!" Right, so only unimportant people in unimportant countries will get hurt. That's okay then...

[kavon89]

Microsoft told journalists at last year's Professional Developers Conference that 70% of Windows users have between eight and 15 windows open at any one time.".

[Kujen]

This is nothing new. They did this with XP if I remember right. So to everyone saying "bawww I'm done using windows", you should of stopped 9 or so years ago.

[SteveHillier]

normal windows 7
By this I assume that product I am calling Vista SP2.
For the life of me I can't see much advantage to this supposed new product.
The first thing I had to do was get a patch because it would not connect to my domain by virtue of the fact that my domain name (before the dot) was more than 14 characters.
Next it let go of all networking and took several reboots to get going again.
After a while you start to lose heart.

[solitaire]

Microsoft are not all bad!!!
They are not restricting the number of services the OS can run...

So all those Virii, Trojans and Zombie spam network services your OS will get will still be able to run...... :D

[markusf21]

I say let MS do what MS does. They have the biggest chunk of the rope, so let them hang them-selves with it.

[Eclipse.]

Anyone remember the "facts" they spoke about when promoting aero? That we all have son many windows open up at the one time, totally contradicts what they are saying now.

[jrusso2]

They will have to sell Windows 7 very cheap to make it cost effective. Thus the Windows 7 starter edition. It seems they say most of the netbook users only have two apps open at the same time and does not include AV. Still I would not buy it but they seem to feel they can make up the money lost this way.

[tbroderick]

This is nothing new. They did this with XP if I remember right. So to everyone saying "bawww I'm done using windows", you should of stopped 9 or so years ago.

Exactly. They did this with XP and Vista. Makes sense that they would do this with Windows 7. I doubt Windows 7 Starter will be used on many netbooks as the Intel Atom should run Windows 7 Premium just fine. Vista Starter, and I'd assume Windows 7 Starter, was intended for older hardware like the Pentium III or AMD Duron that couldn't run Vista Home Basic.

[Giant Speck]

By this I assume that product I am calling Vista SP2.

Too bad Vista Service Pack 2 is a completely separate project than Windows 7 and is set to release some time this month.

To be completely honest, I don't even understand the existence of Windows 7 Starter.

[cmat]

To be completely honest, I don't even understand the existence of Windows 7 Starter.

That's the thing. It shouldn't exist. They can give out Basic instead of making another SKU. At this point anything Microsoft does is a head scratcher. They should just have a "Light" edition (best seller) + Home (forget-about-accessing-a-domain-@-work version) and Professional. No they have to make a million versions of the same product. I'm really tempted to format my laptop out of spite.

[MarblePanther]

This is plain ridiculous. All this is going to do is cause more people to pirate the higher versions of Windows 7 and/or move to Linux.

[blastus]

This is not big news. Once Microsoft eliminates perpetual licenses for home users that will be big news. They are slowly moving towards a subscription based (a.k.a. rent) model for all their software.

Your future Microsoft bill will look like a bill from your telephone company with itemized charges, administration fees, service delivery fees etc... It might take a while for people to accept the idea, but like WGA, there will be pilots and resistors until the final transition takes place.

[cardinals_fan]

How exactly will this work?

[Kopachris]

To clear things up:
XP Starter Edition - for developing countries
Vista Starter Edition - also only released in emerging markets
Windows 7 Starter Edition - for netbooks and other low-end machines
Windows 7 Home Basic - only released in emerging markets

BOTTOM LINE:
NEVER artificially limit software. It's a stupid, illogical idea. You've got to be absolutely insane to do this.

[jrusso2]

This is not big news. Once Microsoft eliminates perpetual licenses for home users that will be big news. They are slowly moving towards a subscription based (a.k.a. rent) model for all their software.

Your future Microsoft bill will look like a bill from your telephone company with itemized charges, administration fees, service delivery fees etc... It might take a while for people to accept the idea, but like WGA, there will be pilots and resistors until the final transition takes place.

That I think might finally kill them off. People got enough things already to pay by the month to add more, thats why I don't have Tivo or an internet phone.

[quanumphaze]

How exactly will this work?

It won't, hopefully.

[pirate_tux]

Something else about this story that's irritating me all to hell. Slashdotters are saying like "Chill out! This only affects users in developing countries!" Right, so only unimportant people in unimportant countries will get hurt. That's okay then...

Very good point.

The simple fact Micro$oft makes a rectricted version of ******* intended to be used on third-world countrys says everything about the ethics (lack of them) of that company...

[quazi]

One interesting point that I saw on slashdot is that this may be a good brand of windows to get for individuals who are not power users. While none of us could ever concieve of running only 2-3 applications, many individuals only turn on their PC to accomplish one thing.

Provided Microsoft does a good job of implementing an application management system (so users don't get screwed by only being able to run two viruses they downloaded), this might not be the worst thing in the world. Of course that assumes the consumer is well-informed of their purchase beforehand.

[unplugged23]

Isn't this aimed for developing countries? Why bother with the app limit? It's like punishment for not buying the premium version. Also this would probably increase piracy, sure you can buy the starter edition or get premium for free off the black market.

Well they'll get what they deserve. A company like Microsoft shouldn't be worried about money. they should be more worried about customer satisfaction, improving there product, and making more easily available, maybe lightening up the EULA some.

EDIT: and how to the plan on monitoring this? spyware? does Microsoft really plan on loading up thousands of pc's with spyware and viewing others personal information, or am i missing something?

[phrostbyte]

Well they'll get what they deserve. A company like Microsoft shouldn't be worried about money. they should be more worried about customer satisfaction, improving there product, and making more easily available, maybe lightening up the EULA some.

EDIT: and how to the plan on monitoring this? spyware? does Microsoft really plan on loading up thousands of pc's with spyware and viewing others personal information, or am i missing something?

I'm pretty sure that if you try to open more then three apps, the OS physically stops you from doing so (pops up an error window). This is fairly easy to implement for someone with all the source code like MSFT.

I wonder if they'll take this to the next level and have different tiers like Starter Basic which can only run 1 app a time, Starter Deluxe which can run 3 apps, and Starter Premium which can run 5 apps. :) If you want to run 10 apps, you'll have to buy Ultimate, and any more apps after that require additional "PALs" or Process Access Licenses.

:D

(I can already see the marketing types salivate over this!)

[unplugged23]

I'm pretty sure that if you try to open more then three apps, the OS physically stops you from doing so (pops up an error window). This is fairly easy to implement for someone with all the source code like MSFT.

I wonder if they'll take this to the next level and have different tiers like Starter Basic which can only run 1 app a time, Starter Deluxe which can run 3 apps, and Starter Premium which can run 5 apps. :) If you want to run 10 apps, you'll have to buy Ultimate, and any more apps after that require additional "PALs" or Process Access Licenses.

:D

(I can already see the marketing types salivate over this!)

Yes, but honestly we can all see how easy that would be to hack.

EDIT: interesting how i would just automatically assume the worst out of microsoft...

[phrostbyte]

Yes, but honestly we can all see how easy that would be to hack.

EDIT: interesting how i would just automatically assume the worst out of microsoft...

If they were going to add spyware to Windows I think they'd put it in all versions. :)

[unplugged23]

If they were going to add spyware to Windows I think they'd put it in all versions. :)

Well its flawed no matter which direction they take it. Microsoft always seems to be in a lose lose situation. thats why were all on ubuntu right?

[cardinals_fan]

I'm pretty sure that if you try to open more then three apps, the OS physically stops you from doing so (pops up an error window). This is fairly easy to implement for someone with all the source code like MSFT.

What exactly does it consider an app? It obviously doesn't include all processes or executables.

[unplugged23]

What exactly does it consider an app? It obviously doesn't include all processes or executables.

Now that would be a DISASTER!

[unplugged23]

I'm pretty sure that if you try to open more then three apps, the OS physically stops you from doing so (pops up an error window). This is fairly easy to implement for someone with all the source code like MSFT.

I wonder if they'll take this to the next level and have different tiers like Starter Basic which can only run 1 app a time, Starter Deluxe which can run 3 apps, and Starter Premium which can run 5 apps. :) If you want to run 10 apps, you'll have to buy Ultimate, and any more apps after that require additional "PALs" or Process Access Licenses.

:D

(I can already see the marketing types salivate over this!)

Wait a minute! O.K. say im not connected to the net, or I only connect somewhere like starbucks. how the heck are they going to charge me for opening more than 2 apps. im sure the machine wont physicaly stop you from opening 2 apps, some people wont stand for that. but when your not connected to the net or on a public connection how are they going to charge you or trace the connection. this once again leads me to the conclusion: spyware. or was i once again blinded by my hate for microsoft?

[Kopachris]

Huh. A couple of you have brought up an excellent point. Why are we wasting our time talking about this? For one, it'll probably be pretty easy to hack around (knowing M$) (not as easy as it would be in Linux, but it won't be impossible). For two, aren't we all (or at least most of us here on the Ubuntu Forums) running Linux, anyway? :)

[Polygon]

What exactly does it consider an app? It obviously doesn't include all processes or executables.

i dunno how but somehow windows vista on my laptop is able to distinguish which is an application and which is just a background process

[quanumphaze]

Here is a workaround that should work without replacing this Windows 7 Starter. Please share it with any friends who end up with this Windows (non)Starter.


Double click "teh big bloo E"
Go to http://www.virtualbox.org/ and download the latest virsion
Install VirtualBox
download your favourite distro (for example Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntu.com))
Run VirtualBox and load the Ubuntu iso
9 clicks later a Linux user is born

Now Windows can run as many apps as you want. :KS

I'm sure we will see programs that hack around this limitation. Possibly by making more than one program appear as sub-processes of another.

[Sand & Mercury]

They've done this since Windows XP.

[Solicitous]

They've done this since Windows XP.

Charged money for running more than 2 apps? Care to expand on that at all?

I'd be very interested to know how it will be implemented. Would running Google Chrome and having 3 tabs open (as we know each tab runs on it's own thread) so would that constitute 3 running applications or one? In theory you'd be running 1 application but over 3 individual threads.

I personally think they will release it to all markets, especially on the netbook market. The netbooks are limited in hardware specs, so limiting what the operating system can do would make the netbook useable from a speed perspective.

But as always someone will find a "fix".

Edit: I just had a look at what I'm running (and I'm only just surfing) and thats Thunderbird and Firefox. Now if I was having to type a text document at the same time I'd have to shut one application down.

[le singe]

One interesting point that I saw on slashdot is that this may be a good brand of windows to get for individuals who are not power users. While none of us could ever concieve of running only 2-3 applications, many individuals only turn on their PC to accomplish one thing.

Provided Microsoft does a good job of implementing an application management system (so users don't get screwed by only being able to run two viruses they downloaded), this might not be the worst thing in the world. Of course that assumes the consumer is well-informed of their purchase beforehand.

Ok, I see where you're coming from, but in the end this is still imposing restrictions. I often don't use more than one or two applications at a time, either, but I like the fact that if I want or need to I can run as many as my computer will handle, space them out across several workspaces, leave several open while I prepare a meal or walk to the store just for the sake of continuing a download and not losing my place in an ebook/on a website/in a document I'm writing/in an mp3 I'm playing/in a documentary I'm watching...

You see what I mean? It's freedom (in a way) and productivity. Even if I'm most often just browsing the internet and playing an mp3, I'm not about to pay a higher price (or any price at all now being accustomed to linux) for the right to push my computer to what it can handle and quite frankly what it was built for, simply because some company arbitrarily decided that I, the "average user," don't really need to use my computer to its full potential.

[hanzomon4]

I'm no foss zealot.... but they're screwing up the os on purpose? Someone add haha to the tags please

[Giant Speck]

Okay, I've done a little research on the matter.

Microsoft has offered a Starter edition of Windows since Windows XP. The Starter edition is designed for use in emerging markets, such as China, India, Thailand, Indonesia, and Mexico. The operating system is heavily restricted compared to other editions.

Windows XP/Vista Starter Edition limits a user to launch a maximum of three applications with a user interface at one time. Windows Vista Starter Edition is designed for computers that have as low as 328 MB of memory, while Windows XP Starter Edition is designed for computers that have as low as 128 MB of memory. Windows Starter Edition is only supported by a small list of processors. I could imagine that the application restrictions are in place because of the small memory requirement. Running more than three GUI-based applications at one time would be difficult and would produce undesired results.

Basically, Windows Starter Edition is designed for computers that are to be used solely for simple tasks, such as web browsing, e-mail, listening to music, or viewing videos. It is designed specifically as a low-cost option to computer beginners.

The bottom line is that this edition of Windows is only available to developing countries. You cannot buy it in developed countries such as the United States or Great Britian. It is minimal, yet usable, and is a much more affordable option for users than any of the mainstream Windows editions.

The article in the OP's post is somewhat misleading in the fact that it seems to assume that Windows 7 Starter Edition will be available for the general netbook consumer base, which is entirely not true.

I hope this makes sense to people. :(

[faraz_k86]

they dig their own grave.

[haemulon]

Crippleware is any product whose functions have been limited (or "crippled") with the express purpose of requiring the user to pay for those functions (either paying a one-time fee or continually paying a service).

[penguindrive]

This is bull, M$ is just punishing people for being poor, WTF.

[3rdalbum]

Windows Vista Starter Edition also has the 3 applications limit. Windows XP Starter Edition (or whatever it was called) had a 3 window limit.

Why are we all getting hot under the collar about it all of a sudden? Microsoft has been doing it for years. It's a good thing for Linux - I expect the Linux-only netbooks like the upcoming ARM ones will get higher reviews than the crippled Windows 7 Starter netbooks!

[Kopachris]

Okay, I've done a little research on the matter.

Microsoft has offered a Starter edition of Windows since Windows XP. The Starter edition is designed for use in emerging markets, such as China, India, Thailand, Indonesia, and Mexico. The operating system is heavily restricted compared to other editions.

Windows XP/Vista Starter Edition limits a user to launch a maximum of three applications with a user interface at one time. Windows Vista Starter Edition is designed for computers that have as low as 328 MB of memory, while Windows XP Starter Edition is designed for computers that have as low as 128 MB of memory. Windows Starter Edition is only supported by a small list of processors. I could imagine that the application restrictions are in place because of the small memory requirement. Running more than three GUI-based applications at one time would be difficult and would produce undesired results.

Basically, Windows Starter Edition is designed for computers that are to be used solely for simple tasks, such as web browsing, e-mail, listening to music, or viewing videos. It is designed specifically as a low-cost option to computer beginners.

The bottom line is that this edition of Windows is only available to developing countries. You cannot buy it in developed countries such as the United States or Great Britian. It is minimal, yet usable, and is a much more affordable option for users than any of the mainstream Windows editions.

The article in the OP's post is somewhat misleading in the fact that it seems to assume that Windows 7 Starter Edition will be available for the general netbook consumer base, which is entirely not true.

I hope this makes sense to people. :(

To clear things up:
XP Starter Edition - for developing countries
Vista Starter Edition - also only released in emerging markets
Windows 7 Starter Edition - for netbooks and other low-end machines
Windows 7 Home Basic - only released in emerging markets

BOTTOM LINE:
NEVER artificially limit software. It's a stupid, illogical idea. You've got to be absolutely insane to do this.
Been there, done the research. Windows 7 Starter is intended for the general netbook consumber base, 7 Home Basic is intended for emerging markets.

Also: Nobody said anything about Windows 7 Starter Edition charging you for having more than 3 apps open at a time. That rumor was started when someone jokingly mentioned M$ making various tiers of Windows 7 Starter.

[anaconda]

Unbeliavable..
so now they can use only
1. Antivirus-program
and
2. Firewall-program

and Hey no room leftfor
3. Dialing program for 3G-internet

not very useful computer..

[jespdj]

I think Microsoft is very stupid by doing this. It shows that they don't take the netbook market seriously, and they're helping the sales of netbooks with Linux by doing this.

It's a missed opportunity for Microsoft to sell a crippled version of Windows on netbooks. Without such a stupid and arbitrary limitation they would have had a chance to win the netbook market, but it seems that they don't care.

I would never want to use an operating system that limits what I can do with my computer in such a stupid way.

[Kopachris]

Unbeliavable..
so now they can use only
1. Antivirus-program
and
2. Firewall-program

and Hey no room leftfor
3. Dialing program for 3G-internet

not very useful computer..
Three apps at a time, not two.
Application = with GUI
Antivirus doesn't count.
Firewall is presumably background program w/o GUI.

[johnb820]

The whole purpose of computer technology is to multitask! This is why we built processors the way we did! We MULTITASK up until the point when the hardware can't handle the processing power required of it but that was up to the hardware to form limits upon how the user used software, not the software forming limits upon what the user could do. HAHAHA! By limiting the number of apps running on an OS MS is bringing computing back to the stone age! The computer world won't stand for this BS any more. It's not enough that nobody really likes Microsoft anymore unlike back in the days of 95 or 98. Windows is merely the standard that the computer industry adopted but with this serious regression and price discrimination, I can't imagine MS is going to be keeping Windows as the industry standard much longer. Look for major companies to start fully backing open source projects and for more time and investment spent into OSes like Red Hat or OpenSuse that can provide a commercial edge that community distros like Debian or Slackware or Arch or Ubuntu (Excluding tech support) can't provide.

Now I realize this kind of move targets a specific demographic but the very idea of an OS limiting how much processing power one can use is not a very comforting thought after how much progress we have made with computers and what amazing software breakthroughs we have gone through and are going through.

[TWO]

Unbeliavable..
so now they can use only
1. Antivirus-program
and
2. Firewall-program

and Hey no room leftfor
3. Dialing program for 3G-internet

not very useful computer..


The three-app rule includes applications running in the background, meaning that a user running Windows Messenger and Skype, for example, could only use one further application on their machine. Antivirus software is excluded from the app count.Just before anyone starts getting carried away- too late for that I guess.

Anaconda, Anti-virus programs aren't included in the restrictions, as is stated in the article. I presume that firewalls won't be included in that either.

Not one section of that article states that a user will be charged to use more than two applications. It simply implies that a user might need to opt for a more expensive version of the OS, so that renders the title of this discussion invalid.

I don't understand why so many of you are so surprised about this and up in arms! Microsoft makes products to make more money...like any other business does. Should you choose to purchase a netbook, then I'm sure that you will be tech savvy enough to just install an open-source OS.

They are neither "digging their own grave" nor "punishing people for being poor." They're being a business that likes to make a profit.

So many of you out there, with your irrational hatred of Microsoft, and yet you become upset that they're doing something restrictive, that might make people look for alternatives. Why are you getting so upset? :confused: With all that hatred, surely this is the very thing that you want them to do?

I think you might have a soft spot for Microsoft that you are unwilling to admit- though how you think that Microsoft- or Linux, for that matter- care whether they have your support or not, is a mystery to me. There will always be someone else that will use the product.

The rule is simple: if you don't like something, just don't use it. Nobody asks you to. :-x

(Rant over.)

[calrogman]

Microsoft are not all bad!!!
They are not restricting the number of services the OS can run...

So all those Virii, Trojans and Zombie spam network services your OS will get will still be able to run...... :D

NO! You're doing it all wrong! The virii and trojans will take up slots at startup so that
A)Your computer becomes useless and
B)You can't burn a Linux CD (this in turn means people will pay for a even crappier version of this so-called "operating" system to escape from Microsoft!!!)

[littletinman]

oh cmon, for the specs, netbooks are already pretty pricy. Is there somewhere i can get ubuntu loaded Acer Ones?

[MarblePanther]

Just before anyone starts getting carried away- too late for that I guess.

Anaconda, Anti-virus programs aren't included in the restrictions, as is stated in the article. I presume that firewalls won't be included in that either.

Not one section of that article states that a user will be charged to use more than two applications. It simply implies that a user might need to opt for a more expensive version of the OS, so that renders the title of this discussion invalid.

I don't understand why so many of you are so surprised about this and up in arms! Microsoft makes products to make more money...like any other business does. Should you choose to purchase a netbook, then I'm sure that you will be tech savvy enough to just install an open-source OS.

They are neither "digging their own grave" nor "punishing people for being poor." They're being a business that likes to make a profit.

So many of you out there, with your irrational hatred of Microsoft, and yet you become upset that they're doing something restrictive, that might make people look for alternatives. Why are you getting so upset? :confused: With all that hatred, surely this is the very thing that you want them to do?

I think you might have a soft spot for Microsoft that you are unwilling to admit- though how you think that Microsoft- or Linux, for that matter- care whether they have your support or not, is a mystery to me. There will always be someone else that will use the product.

The rule is simple: if you don't like something, just don't use it. Nobody asks you to. :-x

(Rant over.)

That's not why I'm worried/upset at all...

The people that will use this crippled os (third-world) might not ever hear of linux or know how to install it. They will only know how to use this junk microsoft is pushing out. This will limit their abilities and creativity and productivity on their already crippled pc's. This is morally wrong and will only keep people from being able to be as productive as they can with what resources they have. It is M$'s right of course, but they also have a responsibility to be fair, after all this affects people not just a chunk of code.

-end of rant-

[le singe]

That's not why I'm worried/upset at all...

The people that will use this crippled os (third-world) might not ever hear of linux or know how to install it. They will only know how to use this junk microsoft is pushing out. This will limit their abilities and creativity and productivity on their already crippled pc's. This is morally wrong and will only keep people from being able to be as productive as they can with what resources they have. It is M$'s right of course, but they also have a responsibility to be fair, after all this affects people not just a chunk of code.

-end of rant-

Good point. One could definitely call this an attack on these "emerging countries," or perhaps poorer countries. And it's funny, isn't it, that we call these countries 'poor' and we, at least in the United States, have been in debt for years, borrow huge sums of money daily from foreign countries, and have now found ourselves in a recession.

[Giant Speck]

Been there, done the research. Windows 7 Starter is intended for the general netbook consumber base, 7 Home Basic is intended for emerging markets.

That sounds awfully backwards to me. They should be offering Home Basic to netbook users, and starter edition to emerging markets.


Also: Nobody said anything about Windows 7 Starter Edition charging you for having more than 3 apps open at a time. That rumor was started when someone jokingly mentioned M$ making various tiers of Windows 7 Starter.

Exactly, the only extra spending a consumer is going to do is to upgrade to Home Premium if they feel Starter Edition is not right for them.


Good point. One could definitely call this an attack on these "emerging countries," or perhaps poorer countries.

How exactly is offering a lower-priced Windows an attack? By doing this, they haven't eliminated the competition. They aren't forcing the people to use Windows, either. I'm sure Linux is just as readily available in these countries as this version of Windows will be.

[Grant A.]

How exactly is offering a lower-priced Windows an attack? By doing this, they haven't eliminated the competition. They aren't forcing the people to use Windows, either. I'm sure Linux is just as readily available in these countries as this version of Windows will be.

In some low-income African countries legislation has been passed that prohibits the use of anything other than Windows on a computer.

[Giant Speck]

In some low-income African countries legislation has been passed that prohibits the use of anything other than Windows on a computer.

Well, something is very wrong with those governments.

[mamamia88]

this is a joke right?

[MarblePanther]

Well, something is very wrong with those governments.

A lot of people over there have never used a pc before, nevermind know what an os is. It is irresponsible and immoral of Microsoft...whether or not it is legal. Yes it is Capitalism, but personally if I owned majority share in M$ I would help in some way the emerging Industrializing societies, not hamper them. It is disgusting. Ubuntu stands for:

"A person with Ubuntu is open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, for he or she has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed."

-Desmond Tutu

--Now do tell me, what does Microsoft stand for?

[Giant Speck]

A lot of people over there have never used a pc before, nevermind know what an os is. It is irresponsible and immoral of Microsoft...whether or not it is legal. Yes it is Capitalism, but personally if I owned majority share in M$ I would help in some way the emerging Industrializing societies, not hamper them. It is disgusting.

Again, how is it immoral or irresponsible for Microsoft to offer a low-cost edition of their operating system to these countries?

[MarblePanther]

Again, how is it immoral or irresponsible for Microsoft to offer a low-cost edition of their operating system to these countries?

*sigh

It is crippleware, it restricts their full capability, productivity

They deserve fully-working machines, not tablescraps

This was not intended as a flame towards anyone...just greed

[swoll1980]

so if your using Firefox(or an equivalent), pidgin(or an equivalent) and listening to music on wmp (or what ever)which, correct me if I'm wrong here, seems like a reasonable trio of apps that an average user may have open concurrently, you would not be able to say use the calculator, or check your E-mail w/o closing an app first. If ms thinks that this wouldn't effect normal people their insane. Think of a student doing a report using IE to research, word to compose it, and a im program, (which every teen on earth seems to have running at all times). They can't listen to music now? What if you have a soft phone like skype, or magic jack, this would put you even deeper in a hole, this whole thing sounds ridiculous.

[le singe]

How exactly is offering a lower-priced Windows an attack? By doing this, they haven't eliminated the competition. They aren't forcing the people to use Windows, either. I'm sure Linux is just as readily available in these countries as this version of Windows will be.

I'll agree that this in itself doesn't eliminate the competition or force anyone to use the OS. What I was seeing as a sort of attack were the software restrictions themselves.

I cannot claim to know how the distribution of microsoft's OS works in many parts of the world, or what its availability is compared to that of Linux based alternatives.

Though if a community somewhere had access to only microsoft operating systems (perhaps the only local computer shop offered nothing but windows, internet connection was difficult to come by and internet cafes with computers and wifi were unavailable and so downloading and burning your own live CD were not realistic options, maybe linux were unknown... I'm sure I'm overlooking other variables), then the simultaneous running-application limit is in my opinion a dishonest attack on this community and others like it who may be the most likely left with no other OS option. As pointed out, productivity is what computers ought and do provide. If you intentionally limit the productivity and functionality of an OS to be distributed to a certain community, you are trying to limit essentially what this community can do as far as internet and computer use. Information and communication and the exchange of ideas can lead to the creation of projects and arts and movements, all through the use of a computer. Why limit that?

[Giant Speck]

*sigh

It is crippleware, it restricts their full capability, productivity

They deserve fully-working machines, not tablescraps

This was not intended as a flame towards anyone...just greed

Yes, but who said Windows Starter Edition was the only available option to those users? Windows Starter Edition is for low-end computers, that have low amounts of memory (as low as 328 MB for Vista and as low as 128 MB for XP). There isn't much more on Windows you could do with that little of memory than opening more than three GUI-based applications at a time.

From what I've read, it doesn't look like Starter Edition is the only available option. It's just the most affordable option if you want to go for Windows. Unless the nation in which you are buying the computer restricts you from using a non-Microsoft operating system, I don't see what the problem is.

[MarblePanther]

http://laptop.org/en/
^^^^^
Hopefully many people receive this wonderful gift who need it (the OLPC linux computer)



...instead of the crippleware Windows Starter that Microsoft is dealing out

[lisati]

All the machines I regularly use have some kind of restrictions on what they can do that occasionally have me reaching for the power switch to do a forced shutdown when I carelessly over-estimate their capabilities..... even with my newer laptop which has more "grunt" than all the other machines I've had put together....

As computer users who hopefully have at least a little bit of knowledge and intelligence, we do have the ability to make choices about what we install on our machines.....

[cardinals_fan]

In some low-income African countries legislation has been passed that prohibits the use of anything other than Windows on a computer.
The governments in question have likely done far worse, such as building palaces for dictators while the people don't have potable water.

*sigh

It is crippleware, it restricts their full capability, productivity

They deserve fully-working machines, not tablescraps

This was not intended as a flame towards anyone...just greed
I'm a bit more concerned about helping these people get vaccinations, clean water, and a stable source of food. We can worry about "deserving" a computer later.

Microsoft has the right to provide whatever products they want. If they want to provide a junk OS to developing countries, I believe they have the right to do that provided that there is competition. Governments that require the use of Windows are a whole different deal and obviously restrict competition.

[Trail]

I really really really hope Microsoft will enforce this limit. Will be fun. Please do it.

[TWO]

The people that will use this crippled OS (third-world)



...their already crippled PC'sOn what basis do you describe the PC's being provided as part of the "one laptop per child" scheme, or the OS in question as crippled? Furthermore, where is the evidence to suggest that this Windows 7 Starter Edition is to become the standard OS on the laptops as part of this scheme?

As far as I was aware, the laptop was to be provided with a simplified version of a Linux OS, and the Sugar GUI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1#Software)- (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1#Software%29-) Wikipedia isn't the most academically sound source, but it will do for now. It later emerged that a version of Windows XP may also be offered alongside an open-source system, so what exactly is the problem here?

I had hoped that conscientious users of open-source software were open to the concept of freedom of choice and freedom of provision, and yet as soon as a propriety version of anything is offered, people go up in arms...so much for individual freedom of choice.
Each institution in a LEDC (Less economically developed country) will choose their computer software according to their own needs, and those choices need to be respected. As if there is anything immoral about using Windows!

I get the feeling that you think that people in LEDCs who use computers, may somehow be too ignorant to go away and find out about alternatives to propriety software, or may be unable to make their own choices. On what basis do you make that assumption then?

You argue for the moral ground, and yet you speak of people in the developing countries as if they are somehow more ignorant and less able than you.

All this talk of morality and stymied productivity...when the vast majority of the world's productive computer users are using a Windows OS anyway? And then of people who live in MEDCs, why, with all their access to the internet and the flow of information, do the vast majority remain ignorant about FOSS alternatives?

Edit: This isn't question of morality, it is simply a question of choice. And all of this discussion is just fuel for a bunch of Linux zealots to make more illogical assertions.

I wholeheartedly agree with cardinals_fan's post "Microsoft has the right to provide whatever products they want. If they want to provide a junk OS to developing countries, I believe they have the right to do that provided that there is competition." And I couldn't agree more about being more concerned about providing vaccinations, clean water, etc. to these people than being concerned with the software provided on their computers.

PRIORITIES PLEASE, PEOPLE! [-X

Edit (2): How on earth did this discussion deviate so much from the original topic?

[MarblePanther]

On what basis do you describe the PC's being provided as part of the "one laptop per child" scheme, or the OS in question as crippled? Furthermore, where is the evidence to suggest that this Windows 7 Starter Edition is to become the standard OS on the laptops as part of this scheme?

As far as I was aware, the laptop was to be provided with a simplified version of a Linux OS, and the Sugar GUI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1#Software)- (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO-1#Software%29-) Wikipedia isn't the most academically sound source, but it will do for now. It later emerged that a version of Windows XP may also be offered alongside an open-source system, so what exactly is the problem here?

I had hoped that conscientious users of open-source software were open to the concept of freedom of choice and freedom of provision, and yet as soon as a propriety version of anything is offered, people go up in arms...so much for individual freedom of choice.
Each institution in a LEDC (Less economically developed country) will choose their computer software according to their own needs, and those choices need to be respected. As if there is anything immoral about using Windows!

I get the feeling that you think that people in LEDCs who use computers, may somehow be too ignorant to go away and find out about alternatives to propriety software, or may be unable to make their own choices. On what basis do you make that assumption then?

You argue for the moral ground, and yet you speak of people in the developing countries as if they are somehow more ignorant and less able than you.

All this talk of morality and stymied productivity...when the vast majority of the world's productive computer users are using a Windows OS anyway? And then of people who live in MEDCs, why, with all their access to the internet and the flow of information, do the vast majority remain ignorant about FOSS alternatives?

Edit: This isn't question of morality, it is simply a question of choice. And all of this discussion is just fuel for a bunch of Linux zealots to make more illogical assertions.

I wholeheartedly agree with cardinals_fan's post "Microsoft has the right to provide whatever products they want. If they want to provide a junk OS to developing countries, I believe they have the right to do that provided that there is competition." And I couldn't agree more about being more concerned about providing vaccinations, clean water, etc. to these people than being concerned with the software provided on their computers.

PRIORITIES PLEASE, PEOPLE! [-X

Edit (2): How on earth did this discussion deviate so much from the original topic?

What? OLPC has nothing to do with Windows. Period. I simply mentioned it as a contrast to Windows Starter Edition and as the better option for these people. I cannot have an opinion? Excuse me.

I am referring to the people who will receive the crippled Windows on netbooks. I simply state that I hope they instead receive an OLPC pc instead.

That is all. :rolleyes:

--And I have nothing against Windows offering a fully functioning os to these people, my problem is it is not a fully functioning os. That would be true competition. Microsoft is a big organisation full of many nice people and great coders I'm sure. The problem is most likely a few people at the top who want to wring every dime out of people. My opinion--get over it. And I am only referring to this particular version of Windows as an immoral offering--NOT ALL OF Microsoft. Must I keep repeating myself? To the people who have other opinions: wonderful, but remember I have mine too.


I'm done with this thread.

[cmat]

I'm a bit more concerned about helping these people get vaccinations, clean water, and a stable source of food. We can worry about "deserving" a computer later.


That always bothered me about Microsoft and hardware providers. They go out of their way to create a solution to a non-existent problem. Hey Microsoft, that school doesn't need 300 Windows PCs. It needs new textbooks, office supplies and better facilities. Every time they do something it seems to either be a PR stunt or marketing. If they really gave a damn they would donate money with no strings attached that schools can buy what they need. Not what Mircosoft thinks they need. They are just getting everyone hooked on Windows so when the market arises they have the monopoly. These countries have weak governments and no anti-trust laws which is ideal for Microsoft to do business as usual.

[Swagman]

I just asked my daughter how many apps she is running right now on her Eeepc.(701)

"Three" was her reply

Email
IM
Firefox

[tuxsheadache]

Although some people argue it's good that Microsoft are offering a cheaper product to developing countries, surely one which doesn't work effectively is a bit redundant?
I'm no programmer myself, but I thought the whole objective was to make a programme as fast as possible. It's like going to a car dealer and paying extra to not have a clamp on your car, because "you only need 3 wheels to drive"

[Seaco]

when Microsof gives the computers to the countrys that need help to they even see if they got eletricity to boot the machines:???:

[spupy]

There will be new viruses for Windows 7. When it infects you, it opens notepad and calculator, BAM!, you are screwed! :D

[Skripka]

There will be new viruses for Windows 7. When it infects you, it opens notepad and calculator, BAM!, you are screwed! :D

I LOL'd. :)

[jjpcexpert]

and Started using Debian GnuNU/Linux

[renedelagza]

So, a student wont be able to use a Word, Messenger, a Web Browser and a Music Player while doing homework?... Good luck!

[Giant Speck]

So, a student wont be able to use a Word, Messenger, a Web Browser and a Music Player while doing homework?... Good luck!

Last time I checked, an instant messenger and a music player weren't required applications for doing homework. :P

[tuxsheadache]

But you can use a browser and disc burning software at same time, all you need for Ubuntu. Win.

[t0p]

All this "Kids in Africa don't need computers, they need food" garbage is patronizing and ignorant. How the hell do you know what Africans want? When was the last time you spoke with an African?

FYI, there's a site here (http://prodigits.co.uk) where Africans from various countries participate in forums. For them, the main gripes seem to be about the shortage of 3G mobile phone service and broadband. None of them post about how hungry they are!

Do us all a favour - go find a globe and look how large Africa is. When you see reports on TV about African famine, it's usually concerning 1 country or region, not the entire continent. You do realize Africa is a continent don't you?

[phrostbyte]

All this "Kids in Africa don't need computers, they need food" garbage is patronizing and ignorant. How the hell do you know what Africans want? When was the last time you spoke with an African?

FYI, there's a site here (http://prodigits.co.uk) where Africans from various countries participate in forums. For them, the main gripes seem to be about the shortage of 3G mobile phone service and broadband. None of them post about how hungry they are!

Do us all a favour - go find a globe and look how large Africa is. When you see reports on TV about African famine, it's usually concerning 1 country or region, not the entire continent. You do realize Africa is a continent don't you?

++

[MikeTheC]

Microsoft's actions are all so much Barbara Streissand. Now if only they would threaten to leave the country...

[Grant A.]

Microsoft's actions are all so much Barbara Streissand. Now if only they would threaten to leave the country...

They threatened that in the past, infact, it was the reason why Microsoft wasn't split into 2 companies after the United States v. Microsoft Anti-Trust case.

[MarblePanther]

all this "kids in africa don't need computers, they need food" garbage is patronizing and ignorant. How the hell do you know what africans want? When was the last time you spoke with an african?

Fyi, there's a site here (http://prodigits.co.uk) where africans from various countries participate in forums. For them, the main gripes seem to be about the shortage of 3g mobile phone service and broadband. None of them post about how hungry they are!

Do us all a favour - go find a globe and look how large africa is. When you see reports on tv about african famine, it's usually concerning 1 country or region, not the entire continent. You do realize africa is a continent don't you?

+1

[cardinals_fan]

All this "Kids in Africa don't need computers, they need food" garbage is patronizing and ignorant. How the hell do you know what Africans want? When was the last time you spoke with an African?

FYI, there's a site here (http://prodigits.co.uk) where Africans from various countries participate in forums. For them, the main gripes seem to be about the shortage of 3G mobile phone service and broadband. None of them post about how hungry they are!

Do us all a favour - go find a globe and look how large Africa is. When you see reports on TV about African famine, it's usually concerning 1 country or region, not the entire continent. You do realize Africa is a continent don't you?
Africa was an example brought up earlier regarding the OLPC project, and as you point out, it was a poor one. My point is that there are more serious problems (on every continent and in every country) than a limited operating system.

Anyway, I think way too much is being made of this. Microsoft is selling a junky system for a low price. As long as there are competing products available, there's nothing wrong with that.

[doorknob60]

God, right now I have Pidgin (Kopete's br0ke right now), Skype, Konqueror, and Konsole open. I almost always have at least that many things open...lol.

[alzie]

Unfortunately I don't have the link.

The concern that I have read about is that Microsoft will be willing to provide the crippled version of Win7 to the OEMs free of charge in order to try and drive other OSs out of the netbook market.

[bruce89]

Perhaps someone could write a container program which has tabs for everything in it (probably using D-Bus to manage).

[MikeTheC]

The more Microsoft does this, the more trivial the feature we'll be able to name in Ubuntu that's beyond a Windows user's reach.

I just wish some high-powered Microsoft marketing dude would talk them into charging for TCP/IP access and usage (though perhaps that's going for too big a piece of the pie right off). I think we'd all laugh our asses off over that one.

[MarblePanther]

The more Microsoft does this, the more trivial the feature we'll be able to name in Ubuntu that's beyond a Windows user's reach.

I just wish some high-powered Microsoft marketing dude would talk them into charging for TCP/IP access and usage (though perhaps that's going for too big a piece of the pie right off). I think we'd all laugh our asses off over that one.

Heh heh:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10129438-92.html
http://www.shawnkquinn.com/2008/12/microsofts-vision-for-the-future-pay-per-use-windows-office-ie-etc/

[Giant Speck]

Heh heh:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10129438-92.html
http://www.shawnkquinn.com/2008/12/microsofts-vision-for-the-future-pay-per-use-windows-office-ie-etc/

Yes, but those patent requests were denied by the patent office, weren't they?

[MarblePanther]

Yes, but those patent requests were denied by the patent office, weren't they?

Yes, but they wanted them!

Who says they wont find a loophole somewhere/sometime?

I really don't care...it's their product

[Giant Speck]

Yes, but they wanted them!

Who says they wont find a loophole somewhere/sometime?

I really don't care...it's their product

There was a very large heated discussion about it here on the forums about a month or two ago.

Seriously, I don't think it had anything to do with computing as we currently know it. It had something to do with cloud computing or something.

[MarblePanther]

There was a very large heated discussion about it here on the forums about a month or two ago.

Seriously, I don't think it had anything to do with computing as we currently know it. It had something to do with cloud computing or something.

Yeah, that is what I heard too. It had to do with the "Cloud'.

[JackieChan]

Wow... I'm glad I switched to Ubuntu before that happened

[gymophett]

That's the stupidest sh*t I've ever heard.

[MikeTheC]

I sincerely hope Microsoft goes forward with all these things, including opening up a bunch of stores (as discussed in another thread) so we can sit and watch them cut the legs out from under themselves and go away sooner rather than later.

[MasterNetra]

This is plain ridiculous. All this is going to do is cause more people to pirate the higher versions of Windows 7 and/or move to Linux.

Or do both. :p

Side note folks better anti-piracy makes better pirates ;) I'm sure there are pirates/hackers who would love the challenge :p Regardless for me i want to stay with Linux as much as possible for two of the main reasons 1. The price, Ubuntu being free for life means not shelling out 200+ dollars for the next main OS upgrade leaving me to spend it on more important things like porn. 2. I like not having to runup my system resources 2x of norm in order to protect it from armies of viruses,trojans,worms etc.