Terminal client : Time wasting vestige of the geek era

[flashSnap]

First off - I realize the title is slightly inflammatory. The point is to hopefully kick off an open discussion and not to start a thread full of insults, although please feel free to point out what I am missing.

I got involved in computing fairly late (after university) and have always been averse to command line interfaces. Over the years I've had numerous co-workers and friends who are quite adept, but I've just never managed to be comfortable. My experience with command line has always been to bumble my way through some tutorial making lots of syntax errors and to become throughly frustrated. Once I manage to complete my objective I put it out of my mind hoping I never have to do anything like that again, but amazingly the problem keeps coming back! Why won't this thing go away!

It's been over 40 years since Douglas Engelbart invented the mouse and around 20 years since it's been mass produced and readily available. When I started programming about 10 years ago I thought the command line was sure to go away soon. Aside from the exact same functionality offered by the GUI file browser what else is there aside from commands and switches? Couldn't a simple wizard or form GUI launched from the context menu achieve the exact same thing in a more user-friendly fashion?

I have heard counter arguments from command line power users who cite the speed advantages and say that it's just as easy to learn. But a majority of typical users don't have this experience. If I were to be objective I would argue that the ease of use of the two approaches was dependent on the user. The way that people think and learn varies. But truly I don't find this argument tenable. By any measure of Human Computer Interaction the command line is not an intuitive experience. The commands are not discoverable, the margin for error is high and the time investment to become proficient is much greater than the GUI approach. Either way users should at least have the choice to use which style they choose.

I must therefore conclude that the command line only remains popular for sociological reasons. When I've observed proponents of the command line interface I must say there has been an element of ego involved. I see the petty empowerment and superiority they feel from esoteric knowledge. Yes I could take the time to memorize all the commands of the applications I use, but why? Why waste my time on some temporary knowledge acquired by rote that will eventually be outmoded?

So why is this tool still such an integral part of the "easy to use" ubuntu operating system? I've recently installed this OS as an alternative to Windows and MAC and man am I hopeful about dumping those greedy, proprietary companies. ( I just hope ubuntu stays true when/if they are acquired by google ;) This is a total speculation, but imagine that! Operating systems revenue driving entirely by search - hmm...) Anyways, this OS feels very intuitive and has some really nice GUI features. I'm loving the multiple desks. At the same time why is configuration so driven by the terminal? Anecdotally, about half the web pages I find mentioning ubuntu have people fumbling around with the terminal.

I'm not suggesting to get rid of it. I realize that many of the enthusiasts who are kick starting the whole effort feel comfortable with it. Instead can we non command line users have a tool to make this OS more accessible? Is there something like this out there already? If so, where can I find it? Thanks.

Peter B.

[BGFG]

That title is a little overboard if you are just trying to start conversation guy ;)

Anyways, with Distributions like Ubuntu, Opensuse and especially Fedora, everything you need to do to administrate your machine can be done through the gui. That is a fact i promise. In some cases though, the tool is not by default available in the main OS but can be easily downloaded through the Add Remove GUI or synaptic.
Before coming to linux I avoided the command line at all costs, i found it quite awkward to use in Windows, and honestly quite unnecessary unless you are true sysadmin.

After a few days in Ubuntu though, I found the terminal a simple, fast and very powerful tool to administrate the machine. In my opinion, linux terminal commands, (at least the core of the ones i use), are too simple for synthax to be an issue. I am a self admitted GUI guy, but rather than navigating to 7 different areas in a system, even though I find Ubuntu's default menu layout to be very efficient, i can open one terminal window and type a string of short simple commands. It's like a one stop shop.

Yes, i would like to see the Ubuntu GUI become more robust, but not at the expense of the command line. I find that the terminal heavily compliments an already robust sysyem.

And trust me, Linux, Apple or Windows, when GUI's fail, and they do :) the command line is all you have. It's saved me before and i expect that it will again.

So I poitely disagree ;)

[airtonix]

flashSnap (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=765575)
Spend some time trying to provide help on irc. You'll find that the succinct input & output of the terminal leaves very little for vague interpreatations.

A process that takes 10 maybe 15 steps to describe in a gui enviroment can be simplified to about 3 or 4 in the terminal.

If you remember that the keyboard combination to open a terminal from desktop is bascially
1. alt + f2
2. type 'gnome-terminal'
3. insert command here for succinct reply.

Where as the effort and extra time involved with making sure the information you are provided with by the client is much larger when relying on the gui.

Where is that dialog box? how to get to it? maybe they are not using same version as you and/or don't care to tell you properly because they can't be bothered finding out(ergo too many clicks required)

It's so much faster to retrieve information about a machine through the terminal and there is far less room for mis-interpretation.

[simtaalo]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=898328 <---link to show you how to do everything in the gui.

personally i don't think the gui is there for sociological reasons (and i am a sociologist) it's there because it IS quick and powerful.

if i want to install something, i can bring up my terminal with my keyboard shortcut (ctrl + `) and then type one line in the terminal and it will be installed. most of the time it will be installed in the same amount of time it would have taken to open up synaptic.

earlier on today i wanted to delete all the html files in a certain directory, i was already using the mouse so i carried on with that, halfway through using the mouse i thought "it would have been so much quicker to do this in the terminal" it would have been one line to type.

your title is ridiculously inflammatory, is there a particular reason you want to poke at people who know how to use the terminal better than you?

[adamlau]

Ever notice how turtle slow Synaptic is compared to the apt suite? Enough said.