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Joey Sarks
February 5th, 2009, 06:48 AM
Sorry if this is the wrong forum i didn't know which to ask in. I'll be learning to build websites soon and i'm wondering which would work best for what I need to do. I suppose down the line ill be trying to make a nice dynamic website like youtube or facebook, no where near that size though obviously. Starting out though I want to make sites along the lines of this one...
www.plastikman.com
I know this uses flash but I dont know if this is easily done on a linux computer, or if its able to be done at all at this time. Can anyone tell me if I should be looking at a dell with windows or a system76 computer with linux? Or if a system76 with linux and a seperate partition with Vista would be a good option? I hear sometimes they conflict with each other and i dont wanna have to deal with a huge new set of problems. Any ideas? Thanks in advance:)

50words
February 5th, 2009, 06:55 AM
It really doesn't matter which operating system you use. All you really need is a good text editor, preferably with syntax highlighting. There are a lot of options for Linux, and quite a few options for Windows and OS X, as well.

For website development, I prefer Bluefish. Everyone will have their own favorite, though. There are at least a dozen in the repos, and dozens more (hundreds, probably) available elsewhere. A few more: Scite, Notepad++, Vim, Emacs, Leafpad, Text Edit, Kate, and Gedit.

ade234uk
February 5th, 2009, 09:02 AM
I have been happily using Dreamweaver 8 and Photoshop CS for the last 4 months in Ubuntu. I don't miss Windows whatsoever. On top of this I now have the chance to learn other things.

Vince4Amy
February 5th, 2009, 09:03 AM
I use Dreamweaver, Fireworks & Flash (Version 8 and CS3)with no problems at all on WINE and the results are always the same as they would be on Windows.

igknighted
February 5th, 2009, 09:42 AM
If you don't have $1000+ to drop on software, you can't afford the Adobe suite. Unless you plan on pirating it, which we can't endorse.

Which leaves you with mostly free tools, which work just as well on linux as windows. I would tend to lean towards linux because you can easily install and run the server applications (apache, mysql, php) on your development computer for testing.

Finally... learn the basics before thinking about flash. Once you know xhtml, css (especially css), and php well (really well), don't worry about flash. Flash makes for some "glitzy" effects, but you really need to learn the more essential elements first. And a world with less flash would be welcomed by all...

ibutho
February 5th, 2009, 10:12 AM
You can use any operating system to develop your websites. I mainly use Linux, but test estensively on Windows. I use Aptana Studio (http://www.aptana.com) as my main web development environment.

mihai.ile
February 5th, 2009, 10:38 AM
First: Of course that you should not use cracked software for this job.
Ok so now instead of telling you do this, install that, use whatever I'll tell you what me and my girlfriend use for what job and you take your conclusions.

First I could say that I can't even think of using pirated software especially when you deal with clients and publish your work on the web.

So I basically use Ubuntu as it's super easy to get going with the apache server, mysql, php and extensions (just a few clicks and you're done).

Then I use one of: Aptana Studio(the free version)/gEdit/blueFish for editing html/xml/css/javascript files. It depends for what do I have to do, for simple things I just open with gEdit and just make the adjustments.

My girlfriend uses heavily Gimp (and now it founds it more easy/intuitive than even Photoshop) to do the design mockups and refine the images that get on the site. I also use Gimp in refining the mockups, and Inkscape for the vectorial images I use in websites, simple svg annimations.

For testing I use Firefox loaded with all the good extensions for web development. Then I have a Virtual Machine just to test the page in IE, Safari, Opera, and yes, Win Firefox(sometimes because of fonts things get different).

After that I use online services for validating the html/css/javascript and ensure that no errors go online with the webpage.

Well that's about it, using this workflow we managed to create several webpages in the last years.

P.S: don't use flash, javascript/svg is enough for the effects I use, and I quite use some, for example ( www.acameira.com or www.apoiar.org ) both don't have any flash annimations.

Tibuda
February 5th, 2009, 10:47 AM
P.S: don't use flash, javascript/svg is enough for the effects I use, and I quite use some, for example ( www.acameira.com or www.apoiar.org ) both don't have any flash annimations.

+1
Flash is obsolete.

Johnsie
February 5th, 2009, 11:00 AM
Windows is best for web design because it allows for better testing in Internet Explorer which is used by a vast majority people on the web. Web development in Linux is blind development because you can't see how most people will be viewing your sites. The only way to test a website properly in Linux is to have a virtual machine running Windows... so you're running windows anyway.

binbash
February 5th, 2009, 11:10 AM
I am using virtual machine for photoshop and flash.Also you have to test the site with internet explorer it is the best to have windows installed somewhere

mihai.ile
February 5th, 2009, 11:15 AM
Windows is best for web design...

I don't think so. Don't generalize.
Web design is not just testing things in IE, is more than that so yes, I use a VM(and couldn't live without it) just for this IE nasty task.

But for me, Linux is way better/easier to actually code, install the necessary server setup, etc.
Oh and by the way you will probably use linux anyway to deploy your site to a webserver(it's just cheaper) and then you could also get in trouble because of file encoding and such (I went when I used Windows for web developing and yes I learned how to deal with it but still)

P.S: I assume that you are going to use php, if you want to use ASP then don't even think twice, go for windows!

Tibuda
February 5th, 2009, 11:21 AM
Windows is best for web design because it allows for better testing in Internet Explorer which is used by a vast majority people on the web. Web development in Linux is blind development because you can't see how most people will be viewing your sites. The only way to test a website properly in Linux is to have a virtual machine running Windows... so you're running windows anyway.

http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page ?



P.S: I assume that you are going to use php, if you want to use ASP then don't even think twice, go for windows!
You can't run classic ASP in Apache, but you can ASP.NET!

mihai.ile
February 5th, 2009, 11:31 AM
http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page ?

Note that this IE is not reliable, don't recommend it. Many things still show different than in windows(fonts, javascript things, etc). I used it before and now don't use it anymore.


You can't run classic ASP in Apache, but you can ASP.NET!

Well yes but I assume that by using ASP you'll deploy to an asp server so what's the point in using all the tweaks just to use Linux and then maybe you still need to tweak and debug those slight differences between windows and Linux asp.net

Linux is not the answer to everything you know...
I use it since about 6 years but if it were to develop an asp page wouldn't even think twice before switching to windows on a separate partition if is not viable in a VM(I don't have the latest and greatest hardware available).

Just use the right tool for the right job ;)

konqueror7
February 5th, 2009, 11:44 AM
well, in my opinion using linux as the dev't environment for you web site is a much better choice, why? free tools and also simulates somehow in a little way maybe on how you going to deploy you web site on a linux server...

i've used quanta plus for my php web app last year, has all the features you need, also the auto-complete in quanta plus is much better than dreamweaver in my opinion...

you may also try setting up you environment using virtualization (using virtualbox - http://www.virtualbox.org)...in the you can also simulate on how each system will render you website, wether it be mozilla or ie...

Tibuda
February 5th, 2009, 12:23 PM
@mihai007
I agree with you. Thank god I don't have to work with ASP anymore.

frrobert
February 5th, 2009, 04:44 PM
I think you are getting ahead of yourself.

The first question is what platform do you want to create your website for? Dynamic websites consist of a client-side scripting language, server-side scripting language, a web server, and a database server.

If you are going to create a website using JavaScript, php, apache, and mysql Linux is a the way to go.

If the website is going be designed with Adobe tools or Dream weaver tools then the answer may be different.

I develop websites using lamp - linux, apache, mysql, php. I believe this set of tools works the best for me. I have made a commitment to open source so I use this tool set. The other advantage to using this platform is that it is very popular, so there is plenty of work.

The other advantage of lamp over other tools especially when you are learning is the cost. Learning using lamp does not require a outlay of cash as would Adobe or Dream weaver.

Hope this helps

Vince4Amy
February 5th, 2009, 04:46 PM
Aptana looks really good, I'm going to try this later.

Joey Sarks
February 6th, 2009, 08:17 AM
Wow, never thought i'd get so many responses so fast. Least I know if I have a problem I can come here and get it answered with the quickness:) I heard the Ubuntu community was a big draw for the OS, i can see why.
Thanks for all the responses, there's a good chance i'm going the linux route now. I've been researching all day and rarely have I found any bad comments about the OS, specifically for web design usage. Still going to dual boot xp though since I doubt a virtual machine can handle running my music production software. Hopefully the freeware for Ubuntu can handle what I need to do with Flash type designs so I dont have to go back to windows for anything else.

Vince4Amy
February 6th, 2009, 09:04 AM
Wow, never thought i'd get so many responses so fast. Least I know if I have a problem I can come here and get it answered with the quickness:) I heard the Ubuntu community was a big draw for the OS, i can see why.
Thanks for all the responses, there's a good chance i'm going the linux route now. I've been researching all day and rarely have I found any bad comments about the OS, specifically for web design usage. Still going to dual boot xp though since I doubt a virtual machine can handle running my music production software. Hopefully the freeware for Ubuntu can handle what I need to do with Flash type designs so I dont have to go back to windows for anything else.

Awesome, just remember though if you do need it, Dreamweaver, Fireworks & Flash 8 - CS3 do work in WINE.

dannytatom
February 6th, 2009, 09:18 AM
If only PS CS3 did. :(

jrusso2
February 6th, 2009, 09:23 AM
If you are just learning website building I would use just a good text editor to learn. Learn the code before you try to learn WYSIWYG Editors like Dreamweaver which don't teach you coding.

igknighted
February 6th, 2009, 09:30 AM
If only PS CS3 did. :(

Not to keep harping on this... but if you've invested thousands of dollars on software for windows, why would you switch to an unsupported OS? And if you are pirating it... do you really have the right to complain?

sharon.gmc
February 6th, 2009, 09:30 AM
I am trying out Linux after trying out Ubuntu. They're both good for web design. I haven't used Windows yet.

Joey Sarks
February 6th, 2009, 10:33 AM
If you are just learning website building I would use just a good text editor to learn. Learn the code before you try to learn WYSIWYG Editors like Dreamweaver which don't teach you coding.

That's my plan. I'm gonna buy books on Ubuntu, html, xhtml, php, sql, and whatever else would seem to work well for what I want. After i've learned a good part about the code i'm goin to use it to fine tune what I do with a WYSIWYG editor, or code to be more efficient in some areas, or if its just plain needed in some parts.

mihai.ile
February 6th, 2009, 10:39 AM
well now after some years I could say that my "WYSIWYG Editor" are the previously made pages, so when I need some sort of table, menu I just take the code from a previous site and customize it in a plain text editor. I think it's faster than actually using a WYSIWYG Editor. But of course I can do this after some web design background... :)