Goth Rock Fans(I just had to do this)

[Twitch6000]

Okay after seeing the metal topic and punk topic I just had to make this topic lol...

So anyone here listen to goth rock?

I know I do and here is my top 5 favorites :).

1.Bauhaus
2.Sisters Of Mercy(early stuff)
3.The Birthday Party
4.Alien Sex Fiend
5.Christian Death(before valor....)

[DigitalDuality]

d

[Twitch6000]

NIN, KMFDM, Genitorturers and manson are really as close as i get. Some London After Midnight.

I do not know if I should laugh or cry....

Manson is not goth rock, and nothing near it lol...

NIN okay I can understand why you would think this,but they are more industrial metal(not to be confused with industrial rock).

The other to bands you put I have not heard of so I cannot really say anything on them.

I think the reason why you even would put NIN and Manson is how kids who are confused think they are goth rock,but are not.

Trent Renzor(singer of NIN) has even said himself his band is not goth rock,does like goth rock and thinks the music is great.

Manson however ... well I am not going into that subject...

[Dragonbite]

I don't know if it counts a "Goth" but I've listened to Inkubus Sukubus, Nightwish, The Unexpected,Lullacry, Unshine and more.

Mostly I listen on Pandora and it comes out with something related to my choices. I listen to the songs, but don't pay much attention to the bands so I'll have to see who I've forgotten (I know there are a few).

[RedSquirrel]

Okay after seeing the metal topic and punk topic I just had to make this topic lol...

So anyone here listen to goth rock?

These days, I don't listen to music as often as I should, but lately I've been listening to Bauhaus and 'Love and Rockets' for some reason. I love the guitar on these songs. Dang, I wish I hadn't sold my stratocaster!

[diablo75]

NIN is most certainly not goth.

How about some Type O Negative?

[Twitch6000]

NIN is most certainly not goth.

How about some Type O Negative?

I think you are getting gothic metal confused with goth rock....

Oh and @dragonbite that is all gothic metal aswell...

Well.. I think my first thought on making this topic was right lol.

[Dragonbite]

Oh and @dragonbite that is all gothic metal aswell...

Not sure what the difference is between GM and GR. For example, Inkubus Sukubus does not come across to me as "Metal", but then again it may be better categorized as "Pagan Rock" rather than Goth.

I think I'm going to have to make a Pandora station on one of your bands and see what it comes up with ;)

[Giant Speck]

Not really a fan of Gothic Rock.

I do like Lacuna Coil, Elis, Leaves' Eyes, and a very limited amount of the music of Theatre of Tragedy. However, those are Gothic Metal bands.

[Twitch6000]

Not sure what the difference is between GM and GR. For example, Inkubus Sukubus does not come across to me as "Metal", but then again it may be better categorized as "Pagan Rock" rather than Goth.

I think I'm going to have to make a Pandora station on one of your bands and see what it comes up with ;)

The biggest difference is the music itself. Gothic Metal gets the name just cause they try to look like goths... When Goth Rock looks,sings and most of the time are true goth.

Another huge difference is the level of bass and sound metal(loud heavy etc...) rock (well the opposite and in goth rock you won't know what to expect epically with bands like Alien Sex Fiend)

[Dixon Bainbridge]

NIN is most certainly not goth.



Labels are arbitrary. If someone see's it as goth then it is. Interpretation is everything. If you create something as one thing, and your audience see's it as something else, then who is right and who is wrong? The answer is, you're both right and wrong.

NIN are certainly listened to by a lot of goths.

Also, a goth in 2009 is different to when I was growing up in the 1980/90's. Goths then used to listened to Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Velvet Underground, Nurse With Wound, Current 93, Psychic TV, Throbbing Gristle, NIN, Coil etc. Proper goths listened to Swans. But then, define goth? Changes depending on when you lived and where.

Labels eh? Mean nothing.

[spupy]

The biggest difference is the music itself. Gothic Metal gets the name just cause they try to look like goths... When Goth Rock looks,sings and most of the time are true goth.

Another huge difference is the level of bass and sound metal(loud heavy etc...) rock (well the opposite and in goth rock you won't know what to expect epically with bands like Alien Sex Fiend)

Watch were you step there. This is flame-war material!
Goth Metal is perhaps what you speak of, but haven't met such an animal. Gothic Metal on the other hand - the name refers to "gothic", more to gothic fiction that to goths. This is an ongoing argument about this and I don't want to (us) get involved.

On-topic:
L'Âme Immortelle - one of my favorite bands, do they count as goth (rock)? They do music from pop to metal, while still staying in their style.
Apart from that listened to some Xymox, and some others, but Xymox stayed as one of the things I liked. When I have time I might check out some other old time goth rock bands.
Can you mention the names of any newer bands in the genre?

[Twitch6000]

Labels are arbitrary. If someone see's it as goth then it is. Interpretation is everything. If you create something as one thing, and your audience see's it as something else, then who is right and who is wrong? The answer is, you're both right and wrong.

NIN are certainly listened to by a lot of goths.

Also, a goth in 2009 is different to when I was growing up in the 1980/90's. Goths then used to listened to Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Velvet Underground, Nurse With Wound, Current 93, Psychic TV, Throbbing Gristle, NIN, Coil etc. Proper goths listened to Swans. But then, define goth? Changes depending on when you lived and where.

Labels eh? Mean nothing.

No sir/or madam you are in correct goth is goth and always will be.

Do not let these new little kids wearing ICP shirts tell you they are goth, THEY ARE NOT.

Goth Rock is and always be like Bauhaus,Christian Death,Alien Sex Fiend,Sisters Of MErcy(early stuff),The Birthday Party, fields of nephilim,etc...

This new stuff that often gets confused with goth rock is not,such as NIN,The Birthday Massacre(great synth rock.industrial band however),H.I.M,etc...

A goth in 2009(a true one) is just like when they started in the 80's. However thanks to the media... there has been many how did my elder goth friend put this... mall goths and babybats appear.

Oh and @ spupy L'Âme Immortelle is more industrial rock which is not goth rock,but alot of goths do like industrial rock.

[Giant Speck]

These new stuff that often gets confused with goth rock is not,such as NIN,The Birthday Massacre(great synth rock.industrial band however),H.I.M,etc...


Who said The Birthday Massacre was goth? They should be shot.

[Twitch6000]

Who said The Birthday Massacre was goth? They should be shot.

Off the top of my head some random kids from a random forum.

I have also seen on some false goth music forums calling TBM goth rock.

Anyways I think you get the point <.<.

However TBM is a great band I enjoy alot of their songs like Happy Birthday and Kill The Lights :).

[spupy]

A goth in 2009(a true one) is just like when they started in the 80's.

Isn't this bad? It means there is no moving forward on the scene.

[Dragonbite]

Boy.. sounds like your Goth version is as flame-bait as which distro you use ;)

I do a little of whatever suits my mood so I don't care about labels of the type of music.

I've gone classical/piano, celtic, country, jazz/swing, blues, classic rock, metal, goth metal (now that that's clarified), dance/techno, ambiance, movie/show tunes (Disney has a few), some hip-hop, very little rap and plenty of unidentifiable!

[Twitch6000]

Isn't this bad? It means there is no moving forward on the scene.

How so?

Goth has had three generations I think that shows moving forward.

Maybe I used wrong words...

What I was meaning is the music... that goths make and listen to is still the same.

However this does make me think about what many band singers have said... how the goth and punk subculture is basicaly dead(or dying) thanks to people acting like they are something they aren't :/.

Also claiming to make such music when it isn't... it is quite sad...

I think a quote from Sean Brennan(singer of london after midnight) is in order here.


Brennan made critical remarks about today's music scene and the current Myspace generation, he said, "All the [music] counter-cultures that existed have been corrupted; especially Goth and Punk, they're gone, they don't exist anymore. The kids [of today] care more about their MySpace pages, their image...and ******** vanity."

[Firestem4]

I haven't listened to much Gothic rock but i listen to alot of Symphonic and Gothic Metal (more symphonic, Most gothic metal is too hardcore, I dont like deathmetal, i just like the gothic part) But the bands I have found and listen to are great. IE: Sirenia, Lacuna Coil, Nightwish, Within Temptation, Evanescence, etc.

[Lachrymarum]

I see alot of people are confused and have no idea about how Gothic Rock sounds like. This misinformation is mainly the media's fault. So, if you want to know real gothic bands and why not darkwave, post punk and death rock too? Then check this out:

1. 1919 - The Complete Collection (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/1919-complete-collection-compilao.html)
2. 2econd Lass - Try To Paint A Fitful Love (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/2econd-lass-try-to-pain-fitful-love.html)
3. 45 Grave - Autopsy (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/45-grave-autopsy.html)
4. 45 Grave - Only The Good Die Young (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/45-grave-only-good-die-young.html)
5. 45 Grave - Sleep In Safety (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/45-grave-sleep-in-safety.html)
6. All Gone Dead - Fallen &amp; Forgotten (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/all-gone-dead-fallen-forgotten.html)
7. Arts of Erebus - Icon In Eyes (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/arts-of-erebus-icon-in-eyes.html)
8. Audra - Audra (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/audra-audra.html)
9. Audra - Going To The Theatre (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/audra-going-to-theatre.html)
10. BATZZ In The Belfry - Sparks Fly Upward (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/batzz-in-belfry-sparks-fly-upward.html)
11. Bauhaus - Crackle [Compilation] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/bauhaus-crackle-compilation.html)
12. Beauty For Ashes - My Secret Sin (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/beauty-for-ashes-my-secret-sin.html)
13. Black Tape For A Blue Girl - Halo Star (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/black-tape-for-blue-girl-halo-star.html)
14. Bloody Dead And Sexy - Paint It Red (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/bloody-dead-and-sexy-paint-it-red.html)
15. Brujeria - Brujerizmo (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/brujeria-brujerizmo.html)
16. Cell Division - Chymeia (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/cell-division-chymeia.html)
17. Cell Division - Tsunami (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/cell-division-tsunami.html)
18. Cinema Strange - Cinema Strange (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinema-strange-cinema-strange.html)
19. Cinema Strange - Quatorze Exemples Authentiques du Triomphe de la Musique Décorative (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinema-strange-quatorze-exemples.html)
20. Cinema Strange - The Astonished Eyes of Evening (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinema-strange-astonished-eyes-of.html)
21. Clan of Xymox - Medusa (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/clan-of-xymox-medusa.html)
22. Clan of Xymox - Twist of Shadows (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/clan-of-xymox-twist-of-shadows.html)
23. Corpus Delicti - A New Saraband of Sylphes (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/corpus-delicti-new-saraband-of-sylphes.html)
24. Corpus Delicti - Twilight (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/corpus-delicti-twilight.html)
25. Diary of Dreams - Alive [Live Album] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-alive-live-album.html)
26. Diary of Dreams - AmoK [Single] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-amok-single.html)
27. Diary of Dreams - Bird Without Wings (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-bird-without-wings.html)
28. Diary of Dreams - Cholymelan (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-cholymelan.html)
29. Diary of Dreams - Dream Collector [Compilation] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-dream-collector.html)
30. Diary of Dreams - End of Flowers (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-end-of-flowers.html)
31. Diary of Dreams - Freak Perfume (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-freak-perfume.html)
32. Diary of Dreams - Giftraum [Single] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-giftraum-single.html)
33. Diary of Dreams - Menschfeind [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-menschfeind-ep.html)
34. Diary of Dreams - Moments of Bloom (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-moments-of-bloom.html)
35. Diary of Dreams - Nekrolog 43 (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-nekrolog-43.html)
36. Diary of Dreams - Nigredo (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-nigredo.html)
37. Diary of Dreams - O'Brother Sleep [Single] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-obrother-sleep-single.html)
38. Diary of Dreams - One of 18 Angels (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-one-of-18-angels.html)
39. Diary of Dreams - PaniK Manifesto [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-panik-manifesto-ep.html)
40. Diary of Dreams - Psychoma? (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-psychoma.html)
41. Diary of Dreams - The Plague [Single] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-plague-single.html)
42. Die Laughing - Glamour And Suicide (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/die-laughing-glamour-and-suicide.html)
43. Die Laughing - Heaven In Decline (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/die-laughing-heaven-in-decline.html)
44. Die Laughing - The Temptress [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/die-laughing-temptress-ep.html)
45. Doppelgänger - Dancing (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/doppelgnger-dancing.html)
46. Doppelgänger - Saturnian Rings (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/doppelgnger-saturnian-rings.html)
47. Eat Your Make Up - First Dinner (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/eat-your-make-up-first-dinner.html)
48. Frank The Baptist - Beggars Would Ride (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/frank-baptist-beggars-would-rise.html)
49. Frank The Baptist - Different Degrees of Empty (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/frank-baptist-different-degrees-of.html)
50. Frank The Baptist - The New Colossus (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/frank-baptist-new-colossus.html)
51. Hatesex - Unwant (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/hatesex-unwant.html)
52. Killing Joke - Night Time (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/killing-joke-night-time.html)
53. London After Midnight - Kiss [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/london-after-midnight-kiss-ep.html)
54. London After Midnight - Oddities (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/london-after-midnight-oddities.html)
55. London After Midnight - Psycho Magnet (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/london-after-midnight-psycho-magnet.html)
56. London After Midnight - Selected Scenes From The End of The World (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/london-after-midnight-selected-scenes.html)
57. London After Midnight - Violent Acts of Beauty (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/london-after-midnight-violent-acts-of.html)
58. Miranda Sex Garden - Carnival of Souls (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/miranda-sex-garden-carnival-of-souls.html)
59. Murder At The Registry - Blessed &amp; Cursed (EP) (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/murder-at-registry-blessed-cursed-ep.html)
60. New Days Delay - Splitterelastisch (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/new-days-delay-splitterelastisch.html)
61. Nosferatu - Lord of The Flies (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/nosferatu-lord-of-flies.html)
62. Nosferatu - Prince of Darkness (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/nosferatu-prince-of-darkness.html)
63. Nosferatu - Rise (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/nosferatu-rise.html)
64. Nosferatu - The Prophecy (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/nosferatu-prophecy.html)
65. Novocaine Mausoleum - Demo (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/novocaine-maosoleum-demo.html)
66. Paralysed Age - Empire of The Vampire (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/paralysed-age-empire-of-vampire.html)
67. Paralysed Age - Into The Ice (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/paralysed-age-into-ice.html)
68. Paralysed Age - Nocturne (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/paralysed-age-nocturne.html)
69. Paralysed Age - Tragedia Nosferata (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/paralysed-age-tragedia-nosferata.html)
70. Plastique Noir - Dead Pop (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/plastique-noir-dead-pop.html)
71. Rasputina - Thanks For The Ether (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/rasputina-thanks-for-ether.html)
72. Redemption (bound) - Home (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/redemption-bound-home.html)
73. Redemption (bound) - The Further We Fall [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/redemption-bound-further-we-fall-ep.html)
74. Release The Bats - Ever Pleasant Smile (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/release-bats-ever-pleasant-smile.html)
75. Rome Burns - Non Specific Ghost Stories (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/rome-burns-non-specific-ghost-stories.html)
76. Rosetta Stone - Adrenaline (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/rosetta-stone-adrenaline.html)
77. Rosetta Stone - UnErotica (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/rosetta-stone-unerotica.html)
78. Scary Bitches - Creepy Crawlies (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/scary-bitches-creepy-crawlies.html)
79. Scary Bitches - Lesbian Vampires From Outer Space (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/scary-bitches-lesbian-vampires-from.html)
80. Sex Gang Children - Blind (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/sex-gang-children-blind.html)
81. Siouxsie &amp; The Banshees - Juju (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/siouxsie-banshees-juju.html)
82. Skeletal Family - Futile Combat (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/skeletal-family-futile-combat.html)
83. Skeletal Family - Sakura (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/skeletal-family-sakura.html)
84. Specimen - Azoic [Compilation] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/specimen-azoic-compilation.html)
85. Subtonix - Tarantism (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/subtonix-tarantism.html)[/url]
86. [url=http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/sunshine-blind-i-carry-you.html]Sunshine Blind - I Carry You (http://http//lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/subtonix-tarantism.html)
87. Sunshine Blind - Liquid (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/sunshine-blind-liquid.html)
88. Sunshine Blind - Love The Sky To Death (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/sunshine-blind-love-sky-to-death.html)
89. Switchblade Symphony - Bread And Jam For Frances (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/switchblade-symphony-bread-and-jam-for.html)
90. Switchblade Symphony - Serpentine Gallery [Deluxe Edition] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/switchblade-symphony-serpentine-gallery.html)
91. Switchblade Symphony - Sinister Nostalgie [The Remixes] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/switchblade-symphony-sinister-nostalgia.html)
92. Switchblade Symphony - The Three Calamities (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/switchblade-symphony-three-calamities.html)
93. The Danse Society - Heaven Is Waiting (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/danse-society-heaven-is-waiting.html)
94. The Ghost of Lemora - Happy End of The World (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/ghost-of-lemora-happy-end-of-world.html)
95. The Ghost of Lemora - Reach For The Ground (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/ghost-of-lemora-reach-for-ground.html)
96. The Ghost of Lemora - The Silhouette Scene [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/ghost-of-lemora-silhouette-scene-ep.html)
97. The Guests - ...In Silence (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/guests-in-silence.html)
98. The Sisters of Mercy - A Slight Case of Overbombing (Compilation) (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/sisters-of-mercy-slight-case-of.html)
99. The Sisters of Mercy - First And Last And Always (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/sisters-of-mercy-first-and-last-and.html)
100. The Sisters of Mercy - Floodland (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/sisters-of-mercy-floodland.html)
101. The Sisters of Mercy - Some Girls Wander By Mistake (Compilation) (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/sisters-of-mercy-some-girls-wander-by.html)
102. The Sisters of Mercy - Vision Thing (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/sisters-of-mercy-vision-thing.html)
103. The Wake - Masked (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/wake-masked.html)
104. The Wake - Nine Ways (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/wake-nine-ways.html)
105. Two Witches - Phaeriemagick (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/two-witches-phaeriemagick.html)
106. Two Witches - The Vampire's Kiss (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/two-witches-vampires-kiss.html)
107. UK Decay - For Madmen Only (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/uk-decay-for-madmen-only.html)
108. Violet Tears - Cold Memories &amp; Remains (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/violet-tears-cold-memories-remains.html)
109. Wolfsheim - Spectators (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/wolfsheim-spectators.html)
110. Xmal Deutschland - Fetisch (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/xmal-deutschland-fetisch.html)
111. Xmal Deutschland - Viva (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/xmal-deutschland-viva.html)

[Twitch6000]

I see alot of people are confused and have no idea about how Gothic Rock sounds like. This misinformation is mainly the media's fault. So, if you want to know real gothic bands and why not darkwave, post punk and death rock too? Then check this out:

1. 1919 - The Complete Collection (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/1919-complete-collection-compilao.html)
2. 2econd Lass - Try To Paint A Fitful Love (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/2econd-lass-try-to-pain-fitful-love.html)
3. 45 Grave - Autopsy (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/45-grave-autopsy.html)
4. 45 Grave - Only The Good Die Young (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/45-grave-only-good-die-young.html)
5. 45 Grave - Sleep In Safety (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/45-grave-sleep-in-safety.html)
6. All Gone Dead - Fallen &amp; Forgotten (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/all-gone-dead-fallen-forgotten.html)
7. Arts of Erebus - Icon In Eyes (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/arts-of-erebus-icon-in-eyes.html)
8. Audra - Audra (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/audra-audra.html)
9. Audra - Going To The Theatre (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/audra-going-to-theatre.html)
10. BATZZ In The Belfry - Sparks Fly Upward (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/batzz-in-belfry-sparks-fly-upward.html)
11. Bauhaus - Crackle [Compilation] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/bauhaus-crackle-compilation.html)
12. Beauty For Ashes - My Secret Sin (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/beauty-for-ashes-my-secret-sin.html)
13. Black Tape For A Blue Girl - Halo Star (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/black-tape-for-blue-girl-halo-star.html)
14. Bloody Dead And Sexy - Paint It Red (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/bloody-dead-and-sexy-paint-it-red.html)
15. Brujeria - Brujerizmo (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/brujeria-brujerizmo.html)
16. Cell Division - Chymeia (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/cell-division-chymeia.html)
17. Cell Division - Tsunami (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/cell-division-tsunami.html)
18. Cinema Strange - Cinema Strange (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinema-strange-cinema-strange.html)
19. Cinema Strange - Quatorze Exemples Authentiques du Triomphe de la Musique Décorative (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinema-strange-quatorze-exemples.html)
20. Cinema Strange - The Astonished Eyes of Evening (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/cinema-strange-astonished-eyes-of.html)
21. Clan of Xymox - Medusa (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/clan-of-xymox-medusa.html)
22. Clan of Xymox - Twist of Shadows (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/clan-of-xymox-twist-of-shadows.html)
23. Corpus Delicti - A New Saraband of Sylphes (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/corpus-delicti-new-saraband-of-sylphes.html)
24. Corpus Delicti - Twilight (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/corpus-delicti-twilight.html)
25. Diary of Dreams - Alive [Live Album] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-alive-live-album.html)
26. Diary of Dreams - AmoK [Single] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-amok-single.html)
27. Diary of Dreams - Bird Without Wings (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-bird-without-wings.html)
28. Diary of Dreams - Cholymelan (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-cholymelan.html)
29. Diary of Dreams - Dream Collector [Compilation] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-dream-collector.html)
30. Diary of Dreams - End of Flowers (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-end-of-flowers.html)
31. Diary of Dreams - Freak Perfume (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-freak-perfume.html)
32. Diary of Dreams - Giftraum [Single] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-giftraum-single.html)
33. Diary of Dreams - Menschfeind [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-menschfeind-ep.html)
34. Diary of Dreams - Moments of Bloom (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-moments-of-bloom.html)
35. Diary of Dreams - Nekrolog 43 (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-nekrolog-43.html)
36. Diary of Dreams - Nigredo (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-nigredo.html)
37. Diary of Dreams - O'Brother Sleep [Single] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-obrother-sleep-single.html)
38. Diary of Dreams - One of 18 Angels (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-one-of-18-angels.html)
39. Diary of Dreams - PaniK Manifesto [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-panik-manifesto-ep.html)
40. Diary of Dreams - Psychoma? (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-psychoma.html)
41. Diary of Dreams - The Plague [Single] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/diary-of-dreams-plague-single.html)
42. Die Laughing - Glamour And Suicide (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/die-laughing-glamour-and-suicide.html)
43. Die Laughing - Heaven In Decline (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/die-laughing-heaven-in-decline.html)
44. Die Laughing - The Temptress [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/die-laughing-temptress-ep.html)
45. Doppelgänger - Dancing (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/doppelgnger-dancing.html)
46. Doppelgänger - Saturnian Rings (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/doppelgnger-saturnian-rings.html)
47. Eat Your Make Up - First Dinner (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/eat-your-make-up-first-dinner.html)
48. Frank The Baptist - Beggars Would Ride (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/frank-baptist-beggars-would-rise.html)
49. Frank The Baptist - Different Degrees of Empty (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/frank-baptist-different-degrees-of.html)
50. Frank The Baptist - The New Colossus (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/frank-baptist-new-colossus.html)
51. Hatesex - Unwant (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/hatesex-unwant.html)
52. Killing Joke - Night Time (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/killing-joke-night-time.html)
53. London After Midnight - Kiss [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/london-after-midnight-kiss-ep.html)
54. London After Midnight - Oddities (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/london-after-midnight-oddities.html)
55. London After Midnight - Psycho Magnet (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/london-after-midnight-psycho-magnet.html)
56. London After Midnight - Selected Scenes From The End of The World (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/london-after-midnight-selected-scenes.html)
57. London After Midnight - Violent Acts of Beauty (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/london-after-midnight-violent-acts-of.html)
58. Miranda Sex Garden - Carnival of Souls (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/miranda-sex-garden-carnival-of-souls.html)
59. Murder At The Registry - Blessed &amp; Cursed (EP) (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/murder-at-registry-blessed-cursed-ep.html)
60. New Days Delay - Splitterelastisch (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/new-days-delay-splitterelastisch.html)
61. Nosferatu - Lord of The Flies (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/nosferatu-lord-of-flies.html)
62. Nosferatu - Prince of Darkness (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/nosferatu-prince-of-darkness.html)
63. Nosferatu - Rise (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/nosferatu-rise.html)
64. Nosferatu - The Prophecy (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/nosferatu-prophecy.html)
65. Novocaine Mausoleum - Demo (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/novocaine-maosoleum-demo.html)
66. Paralysed Age - Empire of The Vampire (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/paralysed-age-empire-of-vampire.html)
67. Paralysed Age - Into The Ice (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/paralysed-age-into-ice.html)
68. Paralysed Age - Nocturne (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/paralysed-age-nocturne.html)
69. Paralysed Age - Tragedia Nosferata (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/paralysed-age-tragedia-nosferata.html)
70. Plastique Noir - Dead Pop (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/plastique-noir-dead-pop.html)
71. Rasputina - Thanks For The Ether (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/rasputina-thanks-for-ether.html)
72. Redemption (bound) - Home (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/redemption-bound-home.html)
73. Redemption (bound) - The Further We Fall [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/redemption-bound-further-we-fall-ep.html)
74. Release The Bats - Ever Pleasant Smile (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/release-bats-ever-pleasant-smile.html)
75. Rome Burns - Non Specific Ghost Stories (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/rome-burns-non-specific-ghost-stories.html)
76. Rosetta Stone - Adrenaline (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/rosetta-stone-adrenaline.html)
77. Rosetta Stone - UnErotica (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/rosetta-stone-unerotica.html)
78. Scary Bitches - Creepy Crawlies (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/scary-bitches-creepy-crawlies.html)
79. Scary Bitches - Lesbian Vampires From Outer Space (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/scary-bitches-lesbian-vampires-from.html)
80. Sex Gang Children - Blind (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/sex-gang-children-blind.html)
81. Siouxsie &amp; The Banshees - Juju (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/siouxsie-banshees-juju.html)
82. Skeletal Family - Futile Combat (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/skeletal-family-futile-combat.html)
83. Skeletal Family - Sakura (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/skeletal-family-sakura.html)
84. Specimen - Azoic [Compilation] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/specimen-azoic-compilation.html)
85. Subtonix - Tarantism (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/subtonix-tarantism.html)[/url]
86. [url=http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/sunshine-blind-i-carry-you.html]Sunshine Blind - I Carry You (http://http//lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/subtonix-tarantism.html)
87. Sunshine Blind - Liquid (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/sunshine-blind-liquid.html)
88. Sunshine Blind - Love The Sky To Death (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/sunshine-blind-love-sky-to-death.html)
89. Switchblade Symphony - Bread And Jam For Frances (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/switchblade-symphony-bread-and-jam-for.html)
90. Switchblade Symphony - Serpentine Gallery [Deluxe Edition] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/switchblade-symphony-serpentine-gallery.html)
91. Switchblade Symphony - Sinister Nostalgie [The Remixes] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/switchblade-symphony-sinister-nostalgia.html)
92. Switchblade Symphony - The Three Calamities (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/switchblade-symphony-three-calamities.html)
93. The Danse Society - Heaven Is Waiting (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/danse-society-heaven-is-waiting.html)
94. The Ghost of Lemora - Happy End of The World (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/ghost-of-lemora-happy-end-of-world.html)
95. The Ghost of Lemora - Reach For The Ground (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/ghost-of-lemora-reach-for-ground.html)
96. The Ghost of Lemora - The Silhouette Scene [EP] (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/ghost-of-lemora-silhouette-scene-ep.html)
97. The Guests - ...In Silence (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/guests-in-silence.html)
98. The Sisters of Mercy - A Slight Case of Overbombing (Compilation) (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/sisters-of-mercy-slight-case-of.html)
99. The Sisters of Mercy - First And Last And Always (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/sisters-of-mercy-first-and-last-and.html)
100. The Sisters of Mercy - Floodland (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/sisters-of-mercy-floodland.html)
101. The Sisters of Mercy - Some Girls Wander By Mistake (Compilation) (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/sisters-of-mercy-some-girls-wander-by.html)
102. The Sisters of Mercy - Vision Thing (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2008/12/sisters-of-mercy-vision-thing.html)
103. The Wake - Masked (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/wake-masked.html)
104. The Wake - Nine Ways (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/wake-nine-ways.html)
105. Two Witches - Phaeriemagick (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/two-witches-phaeriemagick.html)
106. Two Witches - The Vampire's Kiss (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/two-witches-vampires-kiss.html)
107. UK Decay - For Madmen Only (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/uk-decay-for-madmen-only.html)
108. Violet Tears - Cold Memories &amp; Remains (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/violet-tears-cold-memories-remains.html)
109. Wolfsheim - Spectators (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/wolfsheim-spectators.html)
110. Xmal Deutschland - Fetisch (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/xmal-deutschland-fetisch.html)
111. Xmal Deutschland - Viva (http://lachrymarum.blogspot.com/2009/01/xmal-deutschland-viva.html)

Wow... I am amazed ...

It is not often I see another person know this many Goth Rock bands.

[Metallion]

Twitch6000, could you define Goth for me? I'm personally a huge fan of Gothic Metal and have never really cared for the precise definition of goth. I did socialize with a lot of people that could be considered goth and didn't neccisarily find them through music. Most of them didn't exactly care about the definition of the term either though. You seem to hold this definition quite close at hard so I'd like to hear what it is for you.

[Twitch6000]

Twitch6000, could you define Goth for me? I'm personally a huge fan of Gothic Metal and have never really cared for the precise definition of goth. I did socialize with a lot of people that could be considered goth and didn't neccisarily find them through music. Most of them didn't exactly care about the definition of the term either though. You seem to hold this definition quite close at hard so I'd like to hear what it is for you.

Well I will try and put this as forward as possible.

However your best bet to get the true definition is pming me for a site that will tell you more then even I know.

Anyways -

What IS Goth?

Gothic (sometimes called gothic rock or simply Goth) is a genre of rock music that originated during the late 1970s. Originally bands from the genre were referred to as positive-punk by the music press and had strong ties to the English punk rock and emerging post-punk styles.

The genre itself was defined as a separate movement from punk rock during the early 1980s. Some gothic rock bands were more art and introspectively based than punk rock. Gothic dealt with dark themes and intellectual movements such as gothic horror, Romanticism, existential philosophy, and nihilism. Notable gothic rock bands include Bauhaus, The Cure, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Sisters of Mercy and The Mission UK.

Largely separate from other genres of alternative rock of the 1980s, gothic gave rise to a broader Goth subculture that includes Goth clubs, Goth fashions, and Goth-oriented magazines.

What it Means/Takes to be Goth!

Apparently there are MANY MANY MANY of you babybat/newcomers that are failing to see the point of this cult.

Goth is (unfortunately for those of you that think it's "about the way of life") about MUSIC!!! The only "way of life" is being a part of the Goth sub-culture.

These are the Goth genres:
Post-Punk, Goth Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave (There's VERY few Darkwave bands that fall in the "Goth side" because there's an "Electronic side" to it too).

The Sub-culture formed from fans of these Genres!

Fashion:

The Goth fashion is a secondary thing in taking part of the Goth sub-culture. Though it's not a NEED it is extremely popular and usually people aren't considered Goth, by fellow Goths, unless Goth fashion is used in their style.
The Goth fashion is normally taken from DIY(Do It Yourself) fashion and most of the clothes are somehow designed (or put together/torn apart) in order to make a style/outfit. There are only a few places that actually sell clothes fit to just be put on; as stated, they are usually DIY. Most Goths take clothes that are worthless/pre-used and use them to do their DIY work on them.

That's it.

-There's NO "Gothic Metal is Goth!"
-There's NO "Manson is Goth!"
-There's NO "Goth is a way of thinking and way of life (the only "way of life" is if you're a part of the sub-culture)."
-There's NO "but...but...but!"
-There ISN'T ANY arguement about whether this is right or not; it IS right!

GOTH IS THE SUB-CULTURE THAT CAME FROM GOTH MUSIC (MENTIONED ABOVE)!!!
GOTH IS ABOUT BEING A PART OF THE SUB-CULTURE!!!

2. Goth & Gothic: The Difference between Goth & Gothic Imagery

In this section I will try and explain why some bands have been wrongly inserted into the Goth Subculture, despite of the obvious fact that they are not a Goth band. The first thing you will notice is the use of the terms "Goth" and "Gothic". For the sake of this essay, "Goth" will refer to bands and elements which do belong in the subculture, and "Gothic" will apply to those bands and elements which do not belong.

First off, I will try and define the term "Goth." As I said previously, Goth will refer to bands that do belong within the subculture; therefore making them a Goth band. Now your next question is probably going to be; what’s Goth? How do we define it? Easy. Like most musical genres, Goth has its own defining characteristics which separate it from the rest of rock.

I believe Wikipedia managed to sum these characteristics up best, so I will refer you to it here:

"As the genre of gothic rock contains sub-genres whose boundaries overlap, it is difficult to identify musical characteristics that are common to all gothic rock. Nonetheless, certain musical styles from early English gothic have remained common, such as the guitar tone. In gothic rock, the guitar tone is usually processed with electronic effects. A clean or warmly overdriven guitar sound is processed through chorusing, flanging, analog delay, and/or dense reverb, resulting in a timbre that resembles those used by Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and The Cure.

As well, gothic has a characteristic guitar playing style. Gothic rock guitar playing takes its down stroke playing style from punk, and emphasizes angular melodic lines instead of thick chords. Minor keys and minor mode melodies are prevalent, but major keys are also used. The Phrygian mode, with a flattened second scale degree contributes to the gothic sound with its "haunting" and dissonant mood. Gothic songs are typically mixed so that there is a heavy bass sound, which creates a moody and gloomy atmosphere.

Gothic often uses repetitive snare drum snap to propel the beat, either a real drum beat or, later on, usually a drum machine beat. The metronomic snare drum sound can be first heard on Iggy Pop's The Idiot. It continues on in Joy Division's songs, Gary Numan's early music, on early Cure CDs (beginning with Seventeen Seconds) and early Sisters of Mercy recordings. More sophisticated variations of the snare drum snap are used by Kevin Haskins in Bauhaus's music.

In the 1990s, some bands in the gothic genre wrote songs with a more hard rock feel, such as the Sisters of Mercy's Vision Thing album, and Fields of the Nephilim, Rosetta Stone, London After Midnight, and The Wake."

Common Goth Rock themes include gothic horror, Romanticism, existential philosophy, and nihilism (Note how this does not include Gothic literature, which we will talk about later).

Now that we have established what Goth is; let's define Gothic and what separates the two.

Gothic, in terms of music, is often accepted as being an imagery based around the Gothic Literature movement of the late 18th century and early 19th century. Prominent features of Gothic fiction include terror (both psychological and physical), mystery, the supernatural, ghosts, haunted houses and Gothic architecture, castles, darkness, death, decay, doubles, madness, secrets and hereditary curses.

These are all themes portrayed by Gothic bands (and some Goth bands). However, the term has nothing to do with the sound of Goth. Simply the imagery from which the band has drawn their influences both lyrically and maybe even musically.

To put it simply: Goth is a genre of music. Gothic is a theme of music, used by several different genres.

Bands which can be considered Gothic (meaning bands who use Gothic Imagery), but not Goth (meaning the musical genre) may include Cradle of Filth (NOT a goth band!), Lacuna Coil, Nightwish, Moonspell, type O negative (NOT a goth band!!), Paradise Lost, and most other Gothic Metal bands. Though these bands use Gothic themes within their music, their music is not defined as Goth. They do not belong to a singular "Gothic" genre; they're all Gothic bands within wider genres. Remember Gothic is different than Goth!

3. Misconceptions of Goth

3A. Why Gothic Metal isn't Goth

Before stating why Gothic Metal isn’t Goth, I will state the differences between Goth and Gothic, seeming that it is a hard concept for many to grasp. Gothic: An adjective used to describe things of Gothic fiction or of darkly styles (or of a type of architecture but that has nothing to do with anything Gothic Metal or Goth Rock has). Goth: A noun describing a person of an old Germanic tribe or a member of the Goth sub-culture. Also a realization that needs to be re-stated we (as Goths) are NOT a Germanic tribe. Another thing that needs to be stated before we continue is that lyrics do not define music. Gothic imagery placed in music and on the cover of albums and even in the dress of the musicians does not dub them Goth’ier than thou or even as a Goth at all. To be Goth, one must listen to either Deathrock or Goth Rock (though Deathrockers sometimes do not claim Goth as a result of label-hating).

There seems to be a HUGE misconception about Gothic Metal and Goth Rock, in this thread I wish to clear some things up furthermore for the Babybats and n00bs that have joined **********, hoping that you joined to learn more about Goth and understand what it is and NOT to learn about stuff that it is not.

An Easily Comparative Goth Rock Definition for comparasions with other genres

As the genre of Gothic contains sub-genres whose boundaries overlap, it is difficult to identify musical characteristics that are common to all Gothic. Nonetheless, certain musical styles from early English Gothic have remained common, such as the guitar tone. In Gothic rock, the guitar tone is usually processed with electronic effects. A clean or warmly overdriven guitar sound is processed through chorusing, flanging, analog delay, and/or dense reverb, resulting in a timbre that resembles those used by Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and The Cure.

As well, Gothic has a characteristic guitar playing style. Gothic guitar playing takes its down stroke playing style from punk, and emphasizes angular melodic lines instead of thick chords. Minor keys and minor mode melodies are prevalent, but major keys are also used. The Phrygian mode, with a flattened second scale degree contributes to the Gothic sound with its "haunting" and dissonant mood. Gothic rock songs are typically mixed so that there is a heavy bass sound, which creates a moody and gloomy atmosphere.

Gothic often uses repetitive snare drum snap to propel the beat, either a real drum beat or, later on, usually a drum machine beat. The metronomic snare drum sound can be first heard on Iggy Pop's The Idiot. It continues on in Joy Division's songs, Gary Numan's early music, on early Cure CDs (beginning with Seventeen Seconds) and early Sisters of Mercy recordings. More sophisticated variations of the snare drum snap are used by Kevin Haskins in Bauhaus's music.

In the 1990s, some bands in the Gothic genre wrote songs with a more hard rock feel, such as the Sisters of Mercy's Vision Thing album, and Fields of the Nephilim, Rosetta Stone, London After Midnight, and The Wake.

List of (some) important/key bands: Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, All Gone Dead, Cinema Strange, Sisters of Mercy, Christian Death

Reasoning for choices:

Bauhaus - First Goth band ever.
Christian Death/Sisters of Mercy – Adding a harder rock style into Goth Rock.
Siouxsie and the Banshees/The Cure - Setting a style (fashion) into Goth.

All Gone Dead/Cinema Strange - Bringing back old Deathrock/Goth Rock sound in recent times(mainly the 90s) and changing some styles through evolution and still keeping roots.

No I did not mention all the possible key bands in the Goth Rock movement, it would take too long!


Gothic Metal definition:

Gothic Metal is a subgenre of Heavy Metal music. It combines the aggression of Heavy Metal with the dark melancholy of Goth Rock. The genre originated during the early 1990s in Europe as an outgrowth of Death/Doom, a fusion of Death Metal and Doom Metal. The music of Gothic Metal is diverse with bands known to adopt the Gothic approach to different styles of Heavy Metal music. Lyrics are generally melodramatic and mournful with inspiration from Gothic fiction as well as personal experiences.

List of important/key bands: Paradise Lost, type O negative (NOT a goth band!!), Cradle of Filth (NOT a goth band!), Moonspell, Within Temptation, PoisonBlack, My Dying Bride, Anathema.

Reasoning for choices:

Paradise Lost - Original Gothic Metal band, giving Gothic Metal its term from the album Gothic.
Anathema/My Dying Bride – Pioneers in Gothic Metal.
type O negative (NOT a goth band!!) - Reviving Gothic Metal in the 90s and making it larger and more mainstream.

Cradle of Filth/Moonspell - Incorporating newer and heavier styles into Gothic Metal, especially a more Black Metal sound, but both bands are not and were never Black Metal themselves.

Within Temptation - Incorporating a symphonic sound into Gothic Metal.

PoisonBlack - Recently making Gothic Metal more mainstream and being commercially recognized, as also with Cradle of Filth (NOT a goth band!).

To put it simply: Goth is a genre of music. Gothic is a theme of music, used by several different genres.

Gothic Metal is a form of Doom Metal and Heavy Metal incorporating Gothic imagery into Metal, not incorporating Goth Rock into Metal; therefore eliminating the "connection" that many Babybats and Mall-Goths will bring up. Compare the Gothic Metal description to the Goth Rock description to see why Gothic Metal is not Goth. There is no connection seeming that they both have different roots, one of the best arguments ever formed only ended up making one point:

They both have roots in Gothic Fiction.

That's it for that.

If you want the full thing really just PM me for the link to the site.

[spupy]

Well I will try and put this as forward as possible.
<snip>


We need to put this as a sticky on the internet. :)

[Dixon Bainbridge]

Well I will try and put this as forward as possible.

However your best bet to get the true definition is pming me for a site that will tell you more then even I know.

Anyways -

What IS Goth?

Gothic (sometimes called gothic rock or simply Goth) is a genre of rock music that originated during the late 1970s. Originally bands from the genre were referred to as positive-punk by the music press and had strong ties to the English punk rock and emerging post-punk styles.

The genre itself was defined as a separate movement from punk rock during the early 1980s. Some gothic rock bands were more art and introspectively based than punk rock. Gothic dealt with dark themes and intellectual movements such as gothic horror, Romanticism, existential philosophy, and nihilism. Notable gothic rock bands include Bauhaus, The Cure, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Sisters of Mercy and The Mission UK.

Largely separate from other genres of alternative rock of the 1980s, gothic gave rise to a broader Goth subculture that includes Goth clubs, Goth fashions, and Goth-oriented magazines.

What it Means/Takes to be Goth!

Apparently there are MANY MANY MANY of you babybat/newcomers that are failing to see the point of this cult.

Goth is (unfortunately for those of you that think it's "about the way of life") about MUSIC!!! The only "way of life" is being a part of the Goth sub-culture.

These are the Goth genres:
Post-Punk, Goth Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave (There's VERY few Darkwave bands that fall in the "Goth side" because there's an "Electronic side" to it too).

The Sub-culture formed from fans of these Genres!

Fashion:

The Goth fashion is a secondary thing in taking part of the Goth sub-culture. Though it's not a NEED it is extremely popular and usually people aren't considered Goth, by fellow Goths, unless Goth fashion is used in their style.
The Goth fashion is normally taken from DIY(Do It Yourself) fashion and most of the clothes are somehow designed (or put together/torn apart) in order to make a style/outfit. There are only a few places that actually sell clothes fit to just be put on; as stated, they are usually DIY. Most Goths take clothes that are worthless/pre-used and use them to do their DIY work on them.

That's it.

-There's NO "Gothic Metal is Goth!"
-There's NO "Manson is Goth!"
-There's NO "Goth is a way of thinking and way of life (the only "way of life" is if you're a part of the sub-culture)."
-There's NO "but...but...but!"
-There ISN'T ANY arguement about whether this is right or not; it IS right!

GOTH IS THE SUB-CULTURE THAT CAME FROM GOTH MUSIC (MENTIONED ABOVE)!!!
GOTH IS ABOUT BEING A PART OF THE SUB-CULTURE!!!

2. Goth & Gothic: The Difference between Goth & Gothic Imagery

In this section I will try and explain why some bands have been wrongly inserted into the Goth Subculture, despite of the obvious fact that they are not a Goth band. The first thing you will notice is the use of the terms "Goth" and "Gothic". For the sake of this essay, "Goth" will refer to bands and elements which do belong in the subculture, and "Gothic" will apply to those bands and elements which do not belong.

First off, I will try and define the term "Goth." As I said previously, Goth will refer to bands that do belong within the subculture; therefore making them a Goth band. Now your next question is probably going to be; what’s Goth? How do we define it? Easy. Like most musical genres, Goth has its own defining characteristics which separate it from the rest of rock.

I believe Wikipedia managed to sum these characteristics up best, so I will refer you to it here:

"As the genre of gothic rock contains sub-genres whose boundaries overlap, it is difficult to identify musical characteristics that are common to all gothic rock. Nonetheless, certain musical styles from early English gothic have remained common, such as the guitar tone. In gothic rock, the guitar tone is usually processed with electronic effects. A clean or warmly overdriven guitar sound is processed through chorusing, flanging, analog delay, and/or dense reverb, resulting in a timbre that resembles those used by Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and The Cure.

As well, gothic has a characteristic guitar playing style. Gothic rock guitar playing takes its down stroke playing style from punk, and emphasizes angular melodic lines instead of thick chords. Minor keys and minor mode melodies are prevalent, but major keys are also used. The Phrygian mode, with a flattened second scale degree contributes to the gothic sound with its "haunting" and dissonant mood. Gothic songs are typically mixed so that there is a heavy bass sound, which creates a moody and gloomy atmosphere.

Gothic often uses repetitive snare drum snap to propel the beat, either a real drum beat or, later on, usually a drum machine beat. The metronomic snare drum sound can be first heard on Iggy Pop's The Idiot. It continues on in Joy Division's songs, Gary Numan's early music, on early Cure CDs (beginning with Seventeen Seconds) and early Sisters of Mercy recordings. More sophisticated variations of the snare drum snap are used by Kevin Haskins in Bauhaus's music.

In the 1990s, some bands in the gothic genre wrote songs with a more hard rock feel, such as the Sisters of Mercy's Vision Thing album, and Fields of the Nephilim, Rosetta Stone, London After Midnight, and The Wake."

Common Goth Rock themes include gothic horror, Romanticism, existential philosophy, and nihilism (Note how this does not include Gothic literature, which we will talk about later).

Now that we have established what Goth is; let's define Gothic and what separates the two.

Gothic, in terms of music, is often accepted as being an imagery based around the Gothic Literature movement of the late 18th century and early 19th century. Prominent features of Gothic fiction include terror (both psychological and physical), mystery, the supernatural, ghosts, haunted houses and Gothic architecture, castles, darkness, death, decay, doubles, madness, secrets and hereditary curses.

These are all themes portrayed by Gothic bands (and some Goth bands). However, the term has nothing to do with the sound of Goth. Simply the imagery from which the band has drawn their influences both lyrically and maybe even musically.

To put it simply: Goth is a genre of music. Gothic is a theme of music, used by several different genres.

Bands which can be considered Gothic (meaning bands who use Gothic Imagery), but not Goth (meaning the musical genre) may include Cradle of Filth (NOT a goth band!), Lacuna Coil, Nightwish, Moonspell, type O negative (NOT a goth band!!), Paradise Lost, and most other Gothic Metal bands. Though these bands use Gothic themes within their music, their music is not defined as Goth. They do not belong to a singular "Gothic" genre; they're all Gothic bands within wider genres. Remember Gothic is different than Goth!

3. Misconceptions of Goth

3A. Why Gothic Metal isn't Goth

Before stating why Gothic Metal isn’t Goth, I will state the differences between Goth and Gothic, seeming that it is a hard concept for many to grasp. Gothic: An adjective used to describe things of Gothic fiction or of darkly styles (or of a type of architecture but that has nothing to do with anything Gothic Metal or Goth Rock has). Goth: A noun describing a person of an old Germanic tribe or a member of the Goth sub-culture. Also a realization that needs to be re-stated we (as Goths) are NOT a Germanic tribe. Another thing that needs to be stated before we continue is that lyrics do not define music. Gothic imagery placed in music and on the cover of albums and even in the dress of the musicians does not dub them Goth’ier than thou or even as a Goth at all. To be Goth, one must listen to either Deathrock or Goth Rock (though Deathrockers sometimes do not claim Goth as a result of label-hating).

There seems to be a HUGE misconception about Gothic Metal and Goth Rock, in this thread I wish to clear some things up furthermore for the Babybats and n00bs that have joined The Garden of Arcane Delights, hoping that you joined to learn more about Goth and understand what it is and NOT to learn about stuff that it is not.

An Easily Comparative Goth Rock Definition for comparasions with other genres

As the genre of Gothic contains sub-genres whose boundaries overlap, it is difficult to identify musical characteristics that are common to all Gothic. Nonetheless, certain musical styles from early English Gothic have remained common, such as the guitar tone. In Gothic rock, the guitar tone is usually processed with electronic effects. A clean or warmly overdriven guitar sound is processed through chorusing, flanging, analog delay, and/or dense reverb, resulting in a timbre that resembles those used by Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and The Cure.

As well, Gothic has a characteristic guitar playing style. Gothic guitar playing takes its down stroke playing style from punk, and emphasizes angular melodic lines instead of thick chords. Minor keys and minor mode melodies are prevalent, but major keys are also used. The Phrygian mode, with a flattened second scale degree contributes to the Gothic sound with its "haunting" and dissonant mood. Gothic rock songs are typically mixed so that there is a heavy bass sound, which creates a moody and gloomy atmosphere.

Gothic often uses repetitive snare drum snap to propel the beat, either a real drum beat or, later on, usually a drum machine beat. The metronomic snare drum sound can be first heard on Iggy Pop's The Idiot. It continues on in Joy Division's songs, Gary Numan's early music, on early Cure CDs (beginning with Seventeen Seconds) and early Sisters of Mercy recordings. More sophisticated variations of the snare drum snap are used by Kevin Haskins in Bauhaus's music.

In the 1990s, some bands in the Gothic genre wrote songs with a more hard rock feel, such as the Sisters of Mercy's Vision Thing album, and Fields of the Nephilim, Rosetta Stone, London After Midnight, and The Wake.

List of (some) important/key bands: Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, All Gone Dead, Cinema Strange, Sisters of Mercy, Christian Death

Reasoning for choices:

Bauhaus - First Goth band ever.
Christian Death/Sisters of Mercy – Adding a harder rock style into Goth Rock.
Siouxsie and the Banshees/The Cure - Setting a style (fashion) into Goth.

All Gone Dead/Cinema Strange - Bringing back old Deathrock/Goth Rock sound in recent times(mainly the 90s) and changing some styles through evolution and still keeping roots.

No I did not mention all the possible key bands in the Goth Rock movement, it would take too long!


Gothic Metal definition:

Gothic Metal is a subgenre of Heavy Metal music. It combines the aggression of Heavy Metal with the dark melancholy of Goth Rock. The genre originated during the early 1990s in Europe as an outgrowth of Death/Doom, a fusion of Death Metal and Doom Metal. The music of Gothic Metal is diverse with bands known to adopt the Gothic approach to different styles of Heavy Metal music. Lyrics are generally melodramatic and mournful with inspiration from Gothic fiction as well as personal experiences.

List of important/key bands: Paradise Lost, type O negative (NOT a goth band!!), Cradle of Filth (NOT a goth band!), Moonspell, Within Temptation, PoisonBlack, My Dying Bride, Anathema.

Reasoning for choices:

Paradise Lost - Original Gothic Metal band, giving Gothic Metal its term from the album Gothic.
Anathema/My Dying Bride – Pioneers in Gothic Metal.
type O negative (NOT a goth band!!) - Reviving Gothic Metal in the 90s and making it larger and more mainstream.

Cradle of Filth/Moonspell - Incorporating newer and heavier styles into Gothic Metal, especially a more Black Metal sound, but both bands are not and were never Black Metal themselves.

Within Temptation - Incorporating a symphonic sound into Gothic Metal.

PoisonBlack - Recently making Gothic Metal more mainstream and being commercially recognized, as also with Cradle of Filth (NOT a goth band!).

To put it simply: Goth is a genre of music. Gothic is a theme of music, used by several different genres.

Gothic Metal is a form of Doom Metal and Heavy Metal incorporating Gothic imagery into Metal, not incorporating Goth Rock into Metal; therefore eliminating the "connection" that many Babybats and Mall-Goths will bring up. Compare the Gothic Metal description to the Goth Rock description to see why Gothic Metal is not Goth. There is no connection seeming that they both have different roots, one of the best arguments ever formed only ended up making one point:

They both have roots in Gothic Fiction.

That's it for that.

If you want the full thing really just PM me for the link to the site.

Goth, punk, metal has nothing whatsoever to do with musical style. That's what makes this thread so hilarious. All these people arguing a toss over which sub-sub-sub genre a band belongs to, like that matters.

Goth, like punk and metal and any other movement you wish to mention, is all about dress, not music. Its about personal appearance, "the scene" not the music. I have friends that still dress the same way they did in 1980's, in Goth attire of the time. they have the same attitudes and enjoy the scene, the social aspect. What has changed is the music they listen to. But that's the point - the music doesnt matter.

So all you guys banging on about what is goth music and what isnt, are missing the point completely. Subcultures are defined by many things, music is just one part of it, but these are transitory. Many goths I know listen to classical music. It doesnt matter that Stravinsky isn't considered goth music to you, the fact that goths listen to it makes it theirs, it makes it part of their subculture.

You don't seem to understand this. Music labels and genres mean nothing. Its what idiots use to define their poor tastes in constant oneupmanship contests.

There are only two types of music: Music you like, and music you don't.

Edit: Bauhaus - first goth band ever... that is so niaeve its hilarious. Seriously, you know absolutely nothing at all about the goth scene.

[Twitch6000]

Goth, punk, metal has nothing whatsoever to do with musical style. That's what makes this thread so hilarious. All these people arguing a toss over which sub-sub-sub genre a band belongs to, like that matters.

Goth, like punk and metal and any other movement you wish to mention, is all about dress, not music. Its about personal appearance, "the scene" not the music. I have friends that still dress the same way they did in 1980's, in Goth attire of the time. they have the same attitudes and enjoy the scene, the social aspect. What has changed is the music they listen to. But that's the point - the music doesnt matter.

So all you guys banging on about what is goth music and what isnt, are missing the point completely. Subcultures are defined by many things, music is just one part of it, but these are transitory. Many goths I know listen to classical music. It doesnt matter that Stravinsky isn't considered goth music to you, the fact that goths listen to it makes it theirs, it makes it part of their subculture.

You don't seem to understand this. Music labels and genres mean nothing. Its what idiots use to define their poor tastes in constant oneupmanship contests.

There are only two types of music: Music you like, and music you don't.

Edit: Bauhaus - first goth band ever... that is so niaeve its hilarious. Seriously, you know absolutely nothing at all about the goth scene.
WHAT okay sir you are the one who needs to shut up right now.

You are the kind of person who listens to the media,goes to hottpoic,and belives all of their ********.

THAT IS PURE ********!!!

Goth is 80% or more about music the same goes for Punk.

Oh and you say Bauhaus isn't the first Goth Rock band? Well then mister I know everything tell me who is...

[Dragonbite]

Okay after seeing the metal topic and punk topic I just had to make this topic lol...

So anyone here listen to goth rock?

I know I do and here is my top 5 favorites :).

1.Bauhaus
2.Sisters Of Mercy(early stuff)
3.The Birthday Party
4.Alien Sex Fiend
5.Christian Death(before valor....)

Sounds to me that metal and punk are easier to define topics and goth is having an identity crisis! yeesh!

I listen to music. If it's goth or not I really don't care.

I tried Bauhaus and it was alright. Kinda boring overall.

Time to go!

[Twitch6000]

Sounds to me that metal and punk are easier to define topics and goth is having an identity crisis! yeesh!

I listen to music. If it's goth or not I really don't care.

I tried Bauhaus and it was alright. Kinda boring overall.

Time to go!

Due to the media... yes it is... it makes me sick

[Giant Speck]

WHAT okay sir you are the one who needs to shut up right now.

You are the kind of person who listens to the media,goes to hottpoic,and belives all of their ********.

THAT IS PURE ********!!!

Goth is 80% or more about music the same goes for Punk.

Oh and you say Bauhaus isn't the first Goth Rock band? Well then mister I know everything tell me who is...


Dr. Speck is here to fill you out a prescription:

http://www.geocities.com/vibestothemax/chill_pill.jpg

[nothingspecial]

Sisters Of Mercy
The Mission
Bauhaus
Fields Of The Nephilim
Killing Joke

[MarblePanther]

Bauhaus and Joy Division fan here...

Some Siouxsie and the Banshees too

(post-punk, but these are the true originators of goth...)

[Sand & Mercury]

I really like the Sisters Of Mercy a lot, and The Cure's mid-era records (most notably Faith, Pornography and to a lesser extent, Disintegration)

[MarblePanther]

I really like the Sisters Of Mercy a lot, and The Cure's mid-era records (most notably Faith, Pornography and to a lesser extent, Disintegration)

Oh yeah, I love the cure too! You just reminded me.

Pornography and Disintegration are my fav albums by them.

[Bloch]

Deine Lakaien - brilliant stuff. They play at loads of Goth festivals across Europe. Bands like Combichrist and Suicide Commando also play.

I never actually bothered to think about what label to put on each band.

Aggro tech, EBM, synthpop, darkwave, pagan, ... there are just too many labels.

VNV Nation is one of my favourites. Not Goth, but their fans tend to dress in black ...

And what about emo??? I don't even know what it is (it's more a USA thing)

[Twitch6000]

Bauhaus and Joy Division fan here...

Some Siouxsie and the Banshees too

(post-punk, but these are the true originators of goth...)

Well Bauhaus is goth rock along with Siouxsie and the Banshees.

Joy Division is post punk though.

What is your favorite song by Bauhaus?

[MarblePanther]

Well Bauhaus is goth rock along with Siouxsie and the Banshees.

Joy Division is post punk though.

What is your favorite song by Bauhaus?

Joy Division (Ian Curtis' lyrics, presence, and voice, Hannet's production work, etc...) helped start goth musically...I already mentioned they were post-punk and all this in my other post.

My favorite Bauhaus songs (can't just pick one) would have to be Bela Lugosi's Dead (saw that one coming a mile away), Burning from the Inside, She's in Parties, Hollow Hills, Hair of the Dog, Dark Entries, Passion of Lovers, and Mask (much more though).

The label goth like any other label doesn't mean anything at all to me, its the music that counts

[nothingspecial]

Well Bauhaus is goth rock along with Siouxsie and the Banshees.

Joy Division is post punk though.

What is your favorite song by Bauhaus?

If we`re going to do this properly then I`m sorry but Siouxie`s a punk, part of the notorious Bromley contingent. The Banshees` music may have changed over the years, but they definitely started as punks, proper punks not that watered down (but very catchy) New York stuff. Now, what was that 17 minute song by The Damned called......


The Bromley Contingent is a label invented by journalist Caroline Coon[1] about a group of followers and fans of the Sex Pistols. They owed their name to Bromley, a satellite town of London, in the county of Kent, where some of them lived. They helped popularize the fashion of the early UK punk movement.

The group included Siouxsie Sioux, Jordan, Simon 'Boy' Barker, Debbie Juvenile (née Wilson), Linda Ashby, Philip Salon, Simone Thomas, Bertie 'Berlin' Marshall, Tracie O'Keefe, Steve Severin, Billy Idol and Sharon Hayman. Soo Catwoman was also associated with the Bromley Contingent, although she does not consider herself to have been a member[2].

The Bromley Contingent attained a degree of notoriety when Sioux, Severin, Thomas and Barker appeared on ITV with the Sex Pistols to be interviewed by television journalist Bill Grundy in December 1976. Goaded by Grundy, Sex Pistols singer Johnny Rotten used the word "****" on Thames Television's early evening television programme Today, followed by guitarist Steve Jones calling Grundy a "dirty sod", a "dirty old man", a "dirty *******" and a "******* rotter" after the interviewer made a rather inept attempt at "chatting up" Siouxsie. Although the programme was only seen in the Thames Television region, the ensuing furore occupied the tabloid newspapers for days and shortly after the Sex Pistols were dropped by their record label, EMI.

In the following week, Siouxsie appeared on the front page of the Daily Mirror with the legend "Siouxsie a punk shocker"[3]. In February 1977, she stopped attending Pistols concerts and started to tour with her friend Severin under the name of Siouxsie and the Banshees.

The notoriety of the Bromley Contingent in the press continued in June 1977, when Sex Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren rented a boat for the band and fans to sail down the Thames river during Queen Elizabeth II's Silver Jubilee anniversary celebration. When the police forced the boat to dock, several Pistols fans were arrested and injured in the melee. Bromley Contingent members Debbie Juvenile and Tracie O'Keefe (both employees of McLaren in his Kings Road clothing boutique Seditionaries) were charged with obstruction and assaulting a police officer.[4] While Juvenile was acquitted of the charges, O'Keefe was sentenced to one month's imprisonment, although later acquitted on appeal. O'Keefe died unexpectedly in early 1978 of bone marrow cancer at the age of 18.[4]

Many of the Bromley Contingent went on to form bands themselves including The Banshees and Generation X. Arguably they had greater influence than Malcolm McLaren's shops and Vivienne Westwood's designs in shaping the development and look of the early UK punk movement. The fashion statements made by Siouxsie Sioux, in particular, incorporating fetish and bondage clothing, and her innovative style of makeup, continue to live on in punk and goth fashion.

Simon Barker would become a noted photographer, using the nickname 'Six'.[5] Bertie 'Berlin' Marshall would become a writer, publishing a novel, Psychoboys in 1999 and a memoir Berlin Bromley in 2001 which received favorable reviews from The Guardian[6] and Time Out London magazine.[7] Philip Salon would become a fixture of the British New Romantic club scene in the early 1980s alongside the likes of Steve Strange and Boy George.[8]

Sid Vicious, the bassist who replaced Glen Matlock in The Sex Pistols, claimed he despised the Bromley Contingent, despite having played drums for the Banshees' debut live appearance at the 100 Club Punk Festival in 1976. In a 1977 interview for BBC Wales, Vicious claimed to have invented the Pogo as a means to knock them over at the 100 Club. wikipedia

[killing4company]

Well I will try and put this as forward as possible.

However your best bet to get the true definition is pming me for a site that will tell you more then even I know.

Anyways -

What IS Goth?

Gothic (sometimes called gothic rock or simply Goth) is a genre of rock music that originated during the late 1970s. Originally bands from the genre were referred to as positive-punk by the music press and had strong ties to the English punk rock and emerging post-punk styles.

The genre itself was defined as a separate movement from punk rock during the early 1980s. Some gothic rock bands were more art and introspectively based than punk rock. Gothic dealt with dark themes and intellectual movements such as gothic horror, Romanticism, existential philosophy, and nihilism. Notable gothic rock bands include Bauhaus, The Cure, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Sisters of Mercy and The Mission UK.

Largely separate from other genres of alternative rock of the 1980s, gothic gave rise to a broader Goth subculture that includes Goth clubs, Goth fashions, and Goth-oriented magazines.

What it Means/Takes to be Goth!

Apparently there are MANY MANY MANY of you babybat/newcomers that are failing to see the point of this cult.

Goth is (unfortunately for those of you that think it's "about the way of life") about MUSIC!!! The only "way of life" is being a part of the Goth sub-culture.

These are the Goth genres:
Post-Punk, Goth Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave (There's VERY few Darkwave bands that fall in the "Goth side" because there's an "Electronic side" to it too).

The Sub-culture formed from fans of these Genres!

Fashion:

The Goth fashion is a secondary thing in taking part of the Goth sub-culture. Though it's not a NEED it is extremely popular and usually people aren't considered Goth, by fellow Goths, unless Goth fashion is used in their style.
The Goth fashion is normally taken from DIY(Do It Yourself) fashion and most of the clothes are somehow designed (or put together/torn apart) in order to make a style/outfit. There are only a few places that actually sell clothes fit to just be put on; as stated, they are usually DIY. Most Goths take clothes that are worthless/pre-used and use them to do their DIY work on them.

That's it.

-There's NO "Gothic Metal is Goth!"
-There's NO "Manson is Goth!"
-There's NO "Goth is a way of thinking and way of life (the only "way of life" is if you're a part of the sub-culture)."
-There's NO "but...but...but!"
-There ISN'T ANY arguement about whether this is right or not; it IS right!

GOTH IS THE SUB-CULTURE THAT CAME FROM GOTH MUSIC (MENTIONED ABOVE)!!!
GOTH IS ABOUT BEING A PART OF THE SUB-CULTURE!!!

2. Goth & Gothic: The Difference between Goth & Gothic Imagery

In this section I will try and explain why some bands have been wrongly inserted into the Goth Subculture, despite of the obvious fact that they are not a Goth band. The first thing you will notice is the use of the terms "Goth" and "Gothic". For the sake of this essay, "Goth" will refer to bands and elements which do belong in the subculture, and "Gothic" will apply to those bands and elements which do not belong.

First off, I will try and define the term "Goth." As I said previously, Goth will refer to bands that do belong within the subculture; therefore making them a Goth band. Now your next question is probably going to be; what’s Goth? How do we define it? Easy. Like most musical genres, Goth has its own defining characteristics which separate it from the rest of rock.

I believe Wikipedia managed to sum these characteristics up best, so I will refer you to it here:

"As the genre of gothic rock contains sub-genres whose boundaries overlap, it is difficult to identify musical characteristics that are common to all gothic rock. Nonetheless, certain musical styles from early English gothic have remained common, such as the guitar tone. In gothic rock, the guitar tone is usually processed with electronic effects. A clean or warmly overdriven guitar sound is processed through chorusing, flanging, analog delay, and/or dense reverb, resulting in a timbre that resembles those used by Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and The Cure.

As well, gothic has a characteristic guitar playing style. Gothic rock guitar playing takes its down stroke playing style from punk, and emphasizes angular melodic lines instead of thick chords. Minor keys and minor mode melodies are prevalent, but major keys are also used. The Phrygian mode, with a flattened second scale degree contributes to the gothic sound with its "haunting" and dissonant mood. Gothic songs are typically mixed so that there is a heavy bass sound, which creates a moody and gloomy atmosphere.

Gothic often uses repetitive snare drum snap to propel the beat, either a real drum beat or, later on, usually a drum machine beat. The metronomic snare drum sound can be first heard on Iggy Pop's The Idiot. It continues on in Joy Division's songs, Gary Numan's early music, on early Cure CDs (beginning with Seventeen Seconds) and early Sisters of Mercy recordings. More sophisticated variations of the snare drum snap are used by Kevin Haskins in Bauhaus's music.

In the 1990s, some bands in the gothic genre wrote songs with a more hard rock feel, such as the Sisters of Mercy's Vision Thing album, and Fields of the Nephilim, Rosetta Stone, London After Midnight, and The Wake."

Common Goth Rock themes include gothic horror, Romanticism, existential philosophy, and nihilism (Note how this does not include Gothic literature, which we will talk about later).

Now that we have established what Goth is; let's define Gothic and what separates the two.

Gothic, in terms of music, is often accepted as being an imagery based around the Gothic Literature movement of the late 18th century and early 19th century. Prominent features of Gothic fiction include terror (both psychological and physical), mystery, the supernatural, ghosts, haunted houses and Gothic architecture, castles, darkness, death, decay, doubles, madness, secrets and hereditary curses.

These are all themes portrayed by Gothic bands (and some Goth bands). However, the term has nothing to do with the sound of Goth. Simply the imagery from which the band has drawn their influences both lyrically and maybe even musically.

To put it simply: Goth is a genre of music. Gothic is a theme of music, used by several different genres.

Bands which can be considered Gothic (meaning bands who use Gothic Imagery), but not Goth (meaning the musical genre) may include Cradle of Filth (NOT a goth band!), Lacuna Coil, Nightwish, Moonspell, type O negative (NOT a goth band!!), Paradise Lost, and most other Gothic Metal bands. Though these bands use Gothic themes within their music, their music is not defined as Goth. They do not belong to a singular "Gothic" genre; they're all Gothic bands within wider genres. Remember Gothic is different than Goth!

3. Misconceptions of Goth

3A. Why Gothic Metal isn't Goth

Before stating why Gothic Metal isn’t Goth, I will state the differences between Goth and Gothic, seeming that it is a hard concept for many to grasp. Gothic: An adjective used to describe things of Gothic fiction or of darkly styles (or of a type of architecture but that has nothing to do with anything Gothic Metal or Goth Rock has). Goth: A noun describing a person of an old Germanic tribe or a member of the Goth sub-culture. Also a realization that needs to be re-stated we (as Goths) are NOT a Germanic tribe. Another thing that needs to be stated before we continue is that lyrics do not define music. Gothic imagery placed in music and on the cover of albums and even in the dress of the musicians does not dub them Goth’ier than thou or even as a Goth at all. To be Goth, one must listen to either Deathrock or Goth Rock (though Deathrockers sometimes do not claim Goth as a result of label-hating).

There seems to be a HUGE misconception about Gothic Metal and Goth Rock, in this thread I wish to clear some things up furthermore for the Babybats and n00bs that have joined **********, hoping that you joined to learn more about Goth and understand what it is and NOT to learn about stuff that it is not.

An Easily Comparative Goth Rock Definition for comparasions with other genres

As the genre of Gothic contains sub-genres whose boundaries overlap, it is difficult to identify musical characteristics that are common to all Gothic. Nonetheless, certain musical styles from early English Gothic have remained common, such as the guitar tone. In Gothic rock, the guitar tone is usually processed with electronic effects. A clean or warmly overdriven guitar sound is processed through chorusing, flanging, analog delay, and/or dense reverb, resulting in a timbre that resembles those used by Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and The Cure.

As well, Gothic has a characteristic guitar playing style. Gothic guitar playing takes its down stroke playing style from punk, and emphasizes angular melodic lines instead of thick chords. Minor keys and minor mode melodies are prevalent, but major keys are also used. The Phrygian mode, with a flattened second scale degree contributes to the Gothic sound with its "haunting" and dissonant mood. Gothic rock songs are typically mixed so that there is a heavy bass sound, which creates a moody and gloomy atmosphere.

Gothic often uses repetitive snare drum snap to propel the beat, either a real drum beat or, later on, usually a drum machine beat. The metronomic snare drum sound can be first heard on Iggy Pop's The Idiot. It continues on in Joy Division's songs, Gary Numan's early music, on early Cure CDs (beginning with Seventeen Seconds) and early Sisters of Mercy recordings. More sophisticated variations of the snare drum snap are used by Kevin Haskins in Bauhaus's music.

In the 1990s, some bands in the Gothic genre wrote songs with a more hard rock feel, such as the Sisters of Mercy's Vision Thing album, and Fields of the Nephilim, Rosetta Stone, London After Midnight, and The Wake.

List of (some) important/key bands: Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Cure, All Gone Dead, Cinema Strange, Sisters of Mercy, Christian Death

Reasoning for choices:

Bauhaus - First Goth band ever.
Christian Death/Sisters of Mercy – Adding a harder rock style into Goth Rock.
Siouxsie and the Banshees/The Cure - Setting a style (fashion) into Goth.

All Gone Dead/Cinema Strange - Bringing back old Deathrock/Goth Rock sound in recent times(mainly the 90s) and changing some styles through evolution and still keeping roots.

No I did not mention all the possible key bands in the Goth Rock movement, it would take too long!


Gothic Metal definition:

Gothic Metal is a subgenre of Heavy Metal music. It combines the aggression of Heavy Metal with the dark melancholy of Goth Rock. The genre originated during the early 1990s in Europe as an outgrowth of Death/Doom, a fusion of Death Metal and Doom Metal. The music of Gothic Metal is diverse with bands known to adopt the Gothic approach to different styles of Heavy Metal music. Lyrics are generally melodramatic and mournful with inspiration from Gothic fiction as well as personal experiences.

List of important/key bands: Paradise Lost, type O negative (NOT a goth band!!), Cradle of Filth (NOT a goth band!), Moonspell, Within Temptation, PoisonBlack, My Dying Bride, Anathema.

Reasoning for choices:

Paradise Lost - Original Gothic Metal band, giving Gothic Metal its term from the album Gothic.
Anathema/My Dying Bride – Pioneers in Gothic Metal.
type O negative (NOT a goth band!!) - Reviving Gothic Metal in the 90s and making it larger and more mainstream.

Cradle of Filth/Moonspell - Incorporating newer and heavier styles into Gothic Metal, especially a more Black Metal sound, but both bands are not and were never Black Metal themselves.

Within Temptation - Incorporating a symphonic sound into Gothic Metal.

PoisonBlack - Recently making Gothic Metal more mainstream and being commercially recognized, as also with Cradle of Filth (NOT a goth band!).

To put it simply: Goth is a genre of music. Gothic is a theme of music, used by several different genres.

Gothic Metal is a form of Doom Metal and Heavy Metal incorporating Gothic imagery into Metal, not incorporating Goth Rock into Metal; therefore eliminating the "connection" that many Babybats and Mall-Goths will bring up. Compare the Gothic Metal description to the Goth Rock description to see why Gothic Metal is not Goth. There is no connection seeming that they both have different roots, one of the best arguments ever formed only ended up making one point:

They both have roots in Gothic Fiction.

That's it for that.

If you want the full thing really just PM me for the link to the site.

That's a good write up except for citing "gothic Metal" as starting in the nineties and Paradise Lost, being in your words "originals".We're you around in 1985? I'd like to point out that CELTIC FROST had a huge influence and a very big hand in starting up the Goth Metal thing. As a listener since, 1985, I remember them going the Gothic route particularly during the time of Into The Pandemonium album in 1987. Even before that. Martin Ain looked like he was in a Death Rock band with his Gothy getups, citing Dead Can Dance and Christian Death in interviews. One only has to listen to tracks like Rex Irae, or Sorrows Of The Moon or even To Mega Therion's Necromantical Screams with it's operatic vocals provided by female guest vocalist Claudia Maria Mokri and you can cleary see the Frosties were already doing the so called "beauty and the beast" thing before just about ANYBODY in the extreme metal realm. Probably the only ones. Their lyrics were very "gothy" and not the typical hail Satan concepts. Metal became "Gothic" chiefly because of them. They wore corpse paint like make-up and looked very Death Rock-ish. Well, up until the time of Cold Lake, but, that's another story. Paradise Lost were followers, admitted Celtic Frost fans, even covered a tune or two. They would probably have never happened or gone a different route, were it not for FROST. Mainly, because they hardly have an original idea in their heads, along with Nightwish or Within Temptation. Not to be all condescending, but, I get fed up with having some newbie kid who wasn't even around when this stuff was happening, tell me that either VENOM isn't Black Metal or Celtic Frost aren't Goth Metal. True to a point for both, as Celtic Frost liked to cover a lot of ground instead of sticking to one piece of land forging out the same ol' idea. They even covered Wall Of Voodo or slapped on a hip-hop pastiche on their lp's(One In Their Pride) and even did a Dean Martin number. They blazed trails, which many bands have been on since, forging their own trends, whereas Frost refused to be trendy and fall into a scene.