Language proficiency and computer use

[matthew]

I needed a break from working so I thought I would ramble briefly about somthing that I was thinking about earlier today. Please chime in with your thoughts. For my friend aysiu I will add a poll as well. :)

I am a bit of an amateur linguist. I enjoy language, but I especially enjoy learning new ways to communicate. I have also noticed that many people in the science/technology world seem to share this trait, especially research, programming, and power user types.

I am curious to know about the trends in the general Ubuntu population. For the sake of the poll, if you have studied the subject in any real way, whether formally or informally, regardless of your level of confidence in your skills, please feel free to count your experience as valid. Also, if you have a minute I would love to read longer responses, but that's up to you.

Here's the question:
What are the various means of communication you have studied or learned?

You can vote for more than one option!!! Please mark all that apply.

Obviously I know my native language, English.

I have studied Spanish, French, the Moroccan dialect of Arabic, and international standard Arabic. I know a few words/phrases in other languages as well.

I can read music (although my ear is faster and better than trying to sight-read) and sing a little. I play guitar (electric and acoustic), bass and am learning the mandolin. I am fascinated by the differences in Western and Arabic music. I still can't consistently play or sing a scale with 1/4 steps in it. :)

I studied BASIC and LISP years ago. I remember the concepts and could probably write a program in BASIC if I had a reference book handy--all I remember about LISP is that it uses a lot of ()'s. I've messed around with HTML and years ago wrote some DOS scripts. I am currently studying C because it seemed interesting. I am also playing around with Bash scripting and enjoy the cli environment.

Okay, your turn.

[Ampersand]

I speak Russian and am currently learning Japanese (both approximately GCSE level).

I'm having singing lessons as a counter tenor, and play piano, organ and a few brass instruments (trumpet, french horn and tuba mainly).

I studied C as part of my degree, but I'm not particularly proficient in it.

[endersshadow]

I speak some Spanish, not totally fluent, but that's what I'm in college for, right?

Played the violin when I was younger. Can still read music, though I don't play much anymore.

I know PHP, HTML, ASP, and SQL fairly well, I've dabbled in C++, Python, XML, and Bash but only so far as to edit what somebody else had come up with.

[linbetwin]

I studied English, French, Latin and Spanish.

[matthew]

I realized I should have put in an item for visual arts as well. If you paint, draw, create graphics, sculpt, etc., please feel free to comment about that as well...those are certainly forms of communication (especially when done well!).

Sorry it's too late to get it in the poll.

[Ride Jib]

I natively speak English.

I have played instruments (drums, alto saxaphone, guitar) in my younger years, but am now unable to read it anymore. Only thing I can remember is FACE. and Every Good Boy something something something.

I studied French for two years, and Spanish for six.

I've taken courses in communication, as well as language theory.

I know BASIC, SPARC(assembly), gForth, bash, C, C++, C#, Java, PHP, HTML and its variants. I'm sure there are more, but you get the idea.

[mcduck]

In Finland everybody learns at least two additional languages in school. (that makes sense, as there's no hope that anybody else would learn finnish ;)). Swedish for everybody, and then you can choose one or more additional languages. As I'm not good with languages I only chose english.

I play guitar, altough not very well. I've never actually learnt to read notes, but I do make some music with computer and synths and so on..

I have also learnt some C, java, basic and HTML/XHTML and CSS and even some X86-assembly. Now I'm trying to teach myself Python. Then I know some basic Lingo (Macromedia Director's script language) and MaxScript (from 3DS MAX).

Oh, I also do graphical design and 3D, and sometimes I even draw things by hand or paint something. And I like taking photos, and I can do some nice stuff with video cam..

I suppose I really should choose what I want to do and stop trying to do everything ;)

[Dr. Nick]

I speak my native English and limited Spanish that I learned from high school a few years back and also picked up at my job in the food service industry through customer interaction ;)

I played Drum in Junior and High Scool band for about 5yrs and can read some music.

I took a c+ course in High School (Remember the ;'s is my advice :):))
I taught myself batch programming in dos/windows which wasnt that hard.
Now that I am in college I also took a vb.net course which was fairly easy language to pickup, just not of much use outside of windows.

I can do HTML somewhat, I know enough to look at other peoples work and understand whats going on, but still find programs like NVU better for me when building pages.

Used to draw alot and took some art courses in highschool and colege but dont have the time or energy to continue on right now.

[matthew]

I suppose I really should choose what I want to do and stop trying to do everything ;)That wouldn't be as much fun. :)

[ember]

Well, I speak German, my native language, English (it could be better though), forgot most of my French and try to learn Swedish.

I used to play keyboard some years ago - unfortunately I was too lazy to practice regularly, so I abandoned it ;)

When it comes to programming, I mainly use C#, PHP/SQL, HTML/XML/CSS and whatever is needed for a project.

I plan to study Swedish more carefully after my c.s. degree and I guess, I will setup a project with J2ME. And additionally I will try to write the book I plan on for years ;)

[earobinson]

English
C++, C (if you know c you know C++), Java, Python, Perl, Turing, Visual Basic, linux shell (sh, you can write programs)

[Miguel]

Hi guys,

I'm a native spanish speaker. I also speak english (well, I suppose you already found this out ;)) and basque. You can add to it the little latin I learnt at school (one year more and I'd end up speaking it).

I was able to read simple music pentagrams... but because everybody here had to learn somethign about music. Never learnt to play anything appart the so classical soprano flute. Thus, I didn't check the music box.

I learnt to program in FORTRAN during my physics degree, and had to learn some shell scripting for my PhD (still on it). I will learn html (I want to make my personal web), though I hope I won't find it hard, since I've been using LaTeX for the last 5 years.

PS: I will have to learn something GTk or glade to change the UI in gnome-sudoku!!!!

[Felipe_U]

I speak Spanish(my native language), english and I can throw a few phrases in protugeese (most of them insults or bad words). I play the saxophone (Alto, Tenor and Soprano) and can read music fluidly.
At some point I was introduced to pascal, ansi c, c++, now the few times I program I do it in c# and I'm currently learning java.

Regards,
Felipe

[cstudent]

I studied French in high school many years ago, but only remember a couple of things. I would love to be able to speak Spanish and keep saying I'm going to learn someday, only I'd probably sound pretty stupid with my strong hick Appalachian accent. I've played music most of my life. Played cornett in the band in school and learned to play guitar at 14. Went on to study music a few years after high school then met my wife and settled down. That's when I discovered computers. Studied several programming languages in college for an associates degree. I'm now enrolled in college for a bachelors in computer science. Looking forward to next quarter when I'll be studying the C programming language and microprocessor circuits.

[BWF89]

I only speak my native language, Pittsburgh English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_English#Dialectic_terms

[erikpiper]

I speak English, and I am learning Spanish.

I used to play trumpet, and I DO play the Flute, and the Highland Bagpipes. (Talk about broadcasting!)
I can sightread music, and write it (Semi-slowly for writing)

I want to learn to program- I can usderstand BASH scripts

And I am a High School Freshman.

[Lovechild]

I know:
Danish (native - fluent), English (fluent), French (poor). As well as i386 ASM, C, C++ and C#.

3 languages is the minimum requirement for gradeschool here, the required languages would be Danish and English, then at 7th grade you normally get to pick German or French (I picked French to avoid the german teacher because she was a bitch.. little did I know that the french teacher was a psychobitch from hell). After 5 years of taking French, surprisingly little stuck to my brain.

[ember]

@Lovchild:
Maybe your brain is as incompatible with French as was mine ;) ...

And oh - I forgot: Latin ;)

[poptones]

I'm middle age now and struggling to rewire my brain to understand russian and spanish. I learned some french when I was younger - not enough to speak but enough to write coherently given a proper word translation guide. Also took piano and have an aptitude for music and other arts, studied since I was a kid.

I think all kids should be raised in a multilingual environment. Language is the basis of culture and a lack of understanding beyond your native language fosters a lack of understanding and tolerance of other cultures. No reason kids can't learn five languages if they're given the proper environment.

[BWF89]

I think all kids should be raised in a multilingual environment. Language is the basis of culture and a lack of understanding beyond your native language fosters a lack of understanding and tolerance of other cultures. No reason kids can't learn five languages if they're given the proper environment.
I'm against multilinguality on some levels.

On one hand it's great to be able to go somewhere else in the world and be able to speak their language.

On the other you have all these Mexians jumping the boarder without learning English. Now English is slowly being phased out in the southwestern states. Their even trying to pass laws making Spanish an official language down there.

Scary stuff.

[xequence]

I speak english and a little french.

I used to know html, and I sort of know visual basic.

[matthew]

I'm against multilinguality on some levels.

On one hand it's great to be able to go somewhere else in the world and be able to speak their language.

On the other you have all these Mexians jumping the boarder without learning English. Now English is slowly being phased out in the southwestern states. Their even trying to pass laws making Spanish an official language down there.

Scary stuff.I live in one of those southwestern states. Spanish is nowhere near becoming the official language and English is not being phased out. Not only that, but I have known TONS of immigrants over the last 35 years and nearly every one of them either wants to or is in the process of learning English. The thing is, it's a hard language to learn. After spending several years living overseas myself and struggling to learn several languages I now see why immigrants in the first and second generations tend to hang out with people from their native language group and culture. Adapting is hard work, it's tiring, it's emotionally draining. Sometimes you need the familiarity just to cope.

I really don't see why it should be so scary that Spanish is becoming more prominent, anyway. Most of the people in the Western Hemisphere speak Spanish and are worth knowing...and most of the better educated among them already speak at least two languages, often including English.

The real fear is the unknown...the "what if's" that creep in and are magnified by our fear-driven media who need to get you to watch their show so they can sell advertising and try to do so by creating tension and uneasiness where it doesn't need to exist. "Tonight: the six things that can kill you in your sleep. Find out how to prevent them only on channel 6 at ten p.m." The United States is in the unique position of being geographically large with only two other nations directly bordering it...one of which speaks the same language (overall, I haven't forgotten French in Quebec). As a result there is no felt need for most Americans to learn a language unless they want to travel. In past generations immigrants were often from economically and culturally oppressed groups and had an inherent motivations to try to learn English: 1) they didn't want to be oppressed in their new country and 2) they wanted to take advantage of the opportunities available to them. Today's immigrants certainly share #2, but are less willing to let go of their personal identity and native language...and I think #1 is less of a fear today than perhaps it once was...unless you are from certain parts of the world. Try finding a native Arabic speaker to be your language partner in the U.S. right now. It can be tough.

Learning another language opens you up to new ways of thinking because some ideas cannot be translated exactly. You start to see perspectives and consider opinions based on thinking patterns unlike those that are typical in your native tongue. Suddenly "they" become people and you can see why/how the people who speak this other language came to the opinions they hold dear (even when you disagree with them). Learning another language is humanizing and helps us to value others even when they disagree and perhaps we may even begin to consider their perspective and find our own opinions being modified as well. It softens us from being absolute and judgmental and can help us learn to communicate ideas more effectively even in our native tongue.

[Wow. Most of this post and the one I quoted from have potential to open a can of worms...maybe a discussion on this thought would be better served in a different thread. Let's get back to the fun of information gathering.]

[xequence]

Most of the people in the Western Hemisphere speak Spanish

Somehow I doubt that... I have never met anyone in my life that I know speaks spanish.

French is used more then spanish :P

[matthew]

Somehow I doubt that... I have never met anyone in my life that I know speaks spanish.

French is used more then spanish :PStart at the U.S.-Mexico border and go south. The only non-Spanish speaking country you will find is Brazil, which speaks Portuguese.

I meant most overall, not the most in any given area.

[BWF89]

Somehow I doubt that... I have never met anyone in my life that I know speaks spanish.

French is used more then spanish :P
Your a Canadian. So you'd have to travel all the way through Canada, and all the way though the US to get to meet someone who natively speaks spanish. Or go all the way agcross the ocean to Spain.

Edit: Matthew allready covered that while I was posting.

[ember]

I remember some statistics proving that children raised in mulitlingual enviroments were not mastering either of them like someone raised in a monolingual one.
I highly suppose that we learn at least three languages at school/highschool, yet I am very much a friend of a deeper look at everyone's own culture and language, too. It is a pity that e.g. in German schools you never learn very much on the Germanic tribes and the Celts.

[majikstreet]

I acccidentally voted that I only know my native lang... But, I also voted that I have studied 2 or more computer langs, and studied at least one human lang... I know English (native), and am studying French in school, and know PHP and python.

[poptones]

On the other you have all these Mexians jumping the boarder without learning English.

ROTFL. So what "boarder" did you jump?

I remember some statistics proving that children raised in mulitlingual enviroments were not mastering either of them like someone raised in a monolingual one.

Uh huh... sure, ok.

I know damn few people from the US who have even "mastered" English.

[Wolki]

I'm germna, so I know that language quite well. ;) In school, I did Latin, English, Ancient Greek, and Italian, but forgot most of that. Studied some Japanese for my own enjoyment :) I now do English linguistics at the university, and have a great interest in human language processing (ie. by humans, though computer linguistics is also quite interesting).

I played with a lot of different computer languages, but i'm not a proficient coder. I Did/do Ruby, Lisp/Scheme, Pascal, Java, a little python and C too. Oh, and HTML and other markup stuff.


I remember some statistics proving that children raised in mulitlingual enviroments were not mastering either of them like someone raised in a monolingual one.

Do you have sources for that? Children usually have no problem in adapting to different languages, at least if it's started early enough.

[almahtar]

I really enjoy this thread. It's an interesting correlation I've played with in thought myself. As for me:

Languages: Primary is english, I speak French and Japanese conversationally(horrible at writing in Japanese though), and am currently learning Mandarin Chinese and Italian.

Music: Profficient at piano, guitar, vocals, and bass, funcitonal at drums(classical, tribal, or rock), trombone, trumpet, and the recorder.

Programming and scripting: c, c++, QBasic, Visual Basic, Lisp, Scheme, Prolog, LOTS of Ruby, Java, assembler on 2 platforms, lex and yacc, php, actionscript, bash shell scripting, old dos batch scripting, and a very small bit of cobol.

[spincricket]

I speak spanish/english/portuguese.

Play the trombone in marching band//and piano at home.

Learning python.

And i own bwf89.

[Lovechild]

@Lovchild:
Maybe your brain is as incompatible with French as was mine ;) ...

And oh - I forgot: Latin ;)

Well I did get an A on my exam in French. I just never used it outside of school, that's probably why I forgot most of it.

[bored2k]

I have studied at least one other human language.
I have studied one computer language (scripting in a shell, writing macros, actual "language").

[unkemptwolf]

I am fluent in both (American) English, my native language, and ASL (American Sign Language), which clearly isn't all that useful on the internet, but it quite handy in real life.

To head off the usual objections to this, ASL has a seperate grammer structure from English (its was based on French) , and so learning ASL is much more than a matter of simply learning the signs for all the English words. There is a sign language like that though, called ESL (English Sign Language, seperate from British Sign Language, as I understand it). Interesting stuff, but I'm getting long winded.

I also play guitar. Cliche I know, but I enjoy it, and it keeps my hands nimble when I'm not signing.

[hashimoto]

Another Finn here:
Human languages:
- Mother tongue Finnish
- Swedish and English good. I work in a company with a lot of Swedish speaking colleagues and I use English a lot (the official language in the company)
- German... well, I did study it for eight years in school, but that's more than 20 years ago. I still understand most of what I read but since I haven't used it in a long while, I can't produce much verbal output.
- Japanese basics (spoken). I worked one year in Japan (15 years ago) and still remeber the basics. I can read kana and remember some kanji also.
- French basics. Worked two years in France so I had to learn some of it. I can understand much of what I read, but speaking is more pain.

Music:
Started palying piano at around age eight and later chaged to clarinet which ai played several years. I naturally had to learn notes and music theory. And I have sung several years in choir.

Computer languages:
I remember writing some simple programs to the first Apple's in 1980 or something, I guess it was in some sort of Basic, but I can't remember anymore (dementia already?)
Studied some Pascal and Basic in the university. I guess I could still write someting if needed and had a reference at hand.

[jeremy]

I speak fluent english, catalan and spanish, and was a professional (read starving) jazz saxophonist for a decade or so.
Am good on html and css, plus can tinker with php, but can't call myself a programmer; see http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=572746#post572746

[Brunellus]

Fluently, I speak:

English (British & American)
Spanish
Tagalog
Latin

(By "fluently", I mean that I'm comfortable enough in those languages to dream in them, and that I have dreamt in them and remembered those dreams)

In addition, I can read, with varying degrees of success:

French (reading, very poor speaking)
Italian (likewise)
Portuguese


I play the piano (badly), and I'm a rather keen photographer.

next up on the hit parade is a bit of bash shell scripting and python.

[matthew]

I am fluent in both (American) English, my native language, and ASL (American Sign Language), which clearly isn't all that useful on the internet, but it quite handy in real life.

To head off the usual objections to this, ASLASL is most definitely another language. As the originator of this thread I hearby declare that you get to count it. I haven't heard any objections yet anyway. :)

[kaamos]

And another Finn here!

Spoken ones:
- Finnish
- Swedish
- English
- German
- Japanese (the VERY basics..)
Computer:
- Java
- Html

[Kimm]

I speak swedish, english some german and some spanish, I understand norwegian and danish (which is pretty much the same as swedish), I know some words in dutch and I want to learn Japanese.

I play the trumpet.

I know C, C++, C#, Pascal and dreadfully enough I know Visual Basic (trying to forget about that...)