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View Full Version : Police hackers! sneak into windows pc?



sdowney717
January 9th, 2009, 04:52 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7812353.stm

was wondering if Ubuntu by nature prevents police from spying.
Could the government even have a deal with MS to allow them to monitor a users pc?

IP net traffic is always trackable and for a while my brother hid his IP using some service in Europe.

Joeb454
January 9th, 2009, 04:53 PM
I don't know how they'd even manage to do this, I think a lot of it is pure talk and scare tactics, but I can never rule out the possibility that they can do it.

I wrote a blog post actually, I'm massively opposed to this, it's too much of an invasion of privacy...

[/end rant]

Here's the blog post: http://joeb454.co.uk/2009/01/05/privacy-becoming-a-thing-of-the-past/

sydbat
January 9th, 2009, 05:10 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/ZendoDeb/misc/V_for_Vendetta.jpg

sdowney717
January 9th, 2009, 05:15 PM
that bbc article talks of sophisticated tools. Who would know better than MS or former MS programmers how to remotely control a windows PC without the user being aware. And even in undetectable fashion. we keep hearing about the latest security holes in windows, who knows but perhaps they are deliberately placed in the code.

Mason Whitaker
January 9th, 2009, 05:17 PM
Ugh, its very unlikely that it happens in most modern countries, but its already happening in countries like China.

If someone studies how to hack computers themselves, they can also learn how to make their own computers more secure by extension.

that bbc article talks of sophisticated tools. Who would know better than MS or former MS programmers how to remotely control a windows PC without the user being aware. And even in undetectable fashion. we keep hearing about the latest security holes in windows, who knows but perhaps they are deliberately placed in the code.That being said, thank god Micrsoft didn't suceed in taking over Linux <_<

Maheriano
January 9th, 2009, 05:27 PM
It's illegal in North America due to the privacy act. ISP aren't even allowed to store their customer's data unless specifically asked (with warrant) by police.

asgardcurse
January 9th, 2009, 05:36 PM
and in "democratic" countries like UK or Sweden it's legal for the police to spy on us this way, since jan 1st Swedish state check all cable bound traffic passing Swedens borders for "terrorist threats" though they are not allowed to open normal mail, so, if I were a terrorist, it's not like I'd send an email

asgardcurse
January 9th, 2009, 05:37 PM
It's illegal in North America due to the privacy act. ISP aren't even allowed to store their customer's data unless specifically asked (with warrant) by police.

but then you have the patriot act that makes it legal for them to do anything...

sydbat
January 9th, 2009, 05:39 PM
but then you have the patriot act that makes it legal for them to do anything...NOPE. You are confusing Canadians and Americans.

lukjad007
January 9th, 2009, 06:37 PM
Meh. Those who would really be in danger of these attacks are most likely not to be the ones we have to worry about. I think someone could break into my system, but who cares? I have nothing to steal.

Icehuck
January 9th, 2009, 07:07 PM
NOPE. You are confusing Canadians and Americans.

North America refers to the continent that Canada and the United States occupy. If its Canadian law, it should be stated as, "Canadian law dictates..". Of course the same applies when discussing topics concerning the US.

tjwoosta
January 9th, 2009, 07:50 PM
That being said, thank god Micrsoft didn't suceed in taking over Linux <_<

what worries me is the way novel and microsoft are all buddy buddy now



good news is that we can always see the source

jeyaganesh
January 9th, 2009, 08:01 PM
Last year some of the banks/companies in the UK last their customer's data from their storage. Now police are going to store one year of people's data.

Then some day they will definitely going to cry on BBC video about how they lost their disk full of people's data.

They can spend that money for some good things.

Mason Whitaker
January 9th, 2009, 08:18 PM
what worries me is the way novel and microsoft are all buddy buddy now



good news is that we can always see the sourceWell its not like one Linux company can speak for the entire open source movement anyways. Still, I worry too...

Maheriano
January 9th, 2009, 09:26 PM
North America refers to the continent that Canada and the United States occupy. If its Canadian law, it should be stated as, "Canadian law dictates..". Of course the same applies when discussing topics concerning the US.

Sorry, I should have said Canada has this law and the USA used to have it. Not sure about Mexico, guess you can get anything done there with the right bribe.

Twitch6000
January 9th, 2009, 09:58 PM
It's illegal in North America due to the privacy act. ISP aren't even allowed to store their customer's data unless specifically asked (with warrant) by police.

Yet Comcast does this anyways...

Dr Small
January 9th, 2009, 10:01 PM
but then you have the patriot act that makes it legal for them to do anything...
That's what I was going to say.

asgardcurse
January 11th, 2009, 01:24 AM
NOPE. You are confusing Canadians and Americans.

correct, I only read north america, sorry for the offencive behaviour of me.

MaxIBoy
January 11th, 2009, 01:35 AM
I've heard that in the United States, all security software is required by law to have a backdoor for the police. However, I doubt this is true, because what with the number of open-source firewalls in existence, there would've been complaints by now.

Grant A.
January 11th, 2009, 01:53 AM
We don't have to worry about this in the United States, as the Internet Security Act of 1988 prevents it.

MaxIBoy
January 11th, 2009, 01:54 AM
On the other hand, since when has the US government obeyed the law?

Grant A.
January 11th, 2009, 01:57 AM
On the other hand, since when has the US government obeyed the law?

Always... if a government official is caught breaking the law, they are impeached, and possibly imprisoned based upon the nature of their crime. Look at President Richard Nixon, President Bill Clinton (His powers were removed, but they let him stay in office), Governor Blagojevich, etc.

The U.S. government gets too many rumors spread around about power abuse. If you want to see power abuse and corruption, go to Mexico.

diskotek
January 11th, 2009, 02:21 AM
i might take the subject another point but usually state doesn't cares about the laws in order to "save the holy state". for example, you guys talking about usa. well we saw many things against laws like in "seattle demos" or very actual example like "guantanamo bay camp".

we are all in sort of hegelian states.

there are also many consipiracy theories like echelon also (which i think that it's sort of truth)...

for example if you are an (peaceful) political activist, your mails probably controlled by the state (it's agencies). you know state is physical exaple of "control freak". wherever you live... and yeah, many web applications keeps tracks and logs.

if you are using linux or not...


edit: well i'm not comparing any state with others, indeed it's very useless things to do. why you need to compare mexico and usa? hugs from turkey!

Wiebelhaus
January 11th, 2009, 02:25 AM
They try that with me I'll turn everything fuzzy and upside down.

|eafhound
January 11th, 2009, 02:28 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7812353.stm

was wondering if Ubuntu by nature prevents police from spying.
Could the government even have a deal with MS to allow them to monitor a users pc?

IP net traffic is always trackable and for a while my brother hid his IP using some service in Europe.

i guess if the UK hates cybercrime that much, then they will take those steps.

speedwell68
January 11th, 2009, 02:33 AM
Thing is. How are they actually going to get in. I sit behind a router and a firewall, they seem to quite happily protect me angainst all comers. Sow ho are the Police going to suceed where the bad guys fail?

|eafhound
January 11th, 2009, 02:39 AM
Thing is. How are they actually going to get in. I sit behind a router and a firewall, they seem to quite happily protect me angainst all comers. Sow ho are the Police going to suceed where the bad guys fail?

Exactly, those who do cyber crime will hardly be credulous when it comes to defence

Polygon
January 11th, 2009, 03:19 AM
i read somewhere that windows has two keys or something that allows the FBI to gain access to your computer built into the operating system. this was a long time ago and i dont know where to find the source.

but don't do anything (too) illegal and you should be fine =)

wolfen69
January 11th, 2009, 03:26 AM
that bbc article talks of sophisticated tools. Who would know better than MS or former MS programmers how to remotely control a windows PC without the user being aware. And even in undetectable fashion. we keep hearing about the latest security holes in windows, who knows but perhaps they are deliberately placed in the code.

exactly. Bill probably struck a deal with the US government to allow a backdoor in the OS for the purpose of "national security". i'm not saying they are spying on everyone, but i believe the possibilty is there.

Dr Small
January 11th, 2009, 03:26 AM
i read somewhere that windows has two keys or something that allows the FBI to gain access to your computer built into the operating system. this was a long time ago and i dont know where to find the source.

but don't do anything (too) illegal and you should be fine =)
I too recall reading something about that.

Polygon
January 11th, 2009, 03:28 AM
the proper word for what i was talking about is a 'backdoor'. sowwy just remembered that =P

wolfen69
January 11th, 2009, 03:34 AM
Thing is. How are they actually going to get in. I sit behind a router and a firewall, they seem to quite happily protect me angainst all comers. Sow ho are the Police going to suceed where the bad guys fail?

when there's a will, there's a way.

the bad guys don't have the resources available that a government does.

Dr Small
January 11th, 2009, 03:40 AM
when there's a will, there's a way.

the bad guys don't have the resources available that a government does.
As a general rule of thumb, there is always a way. The will is the force behind it that makes it happen :)

And since we don't know what all is going on behind the scenes in Windows, who's really to say that there isn't a backdoor for a government? Plug a USB in, execute a few 'secret backdoor commands', extract data that the OS has marked as suspcious, take to lab, analyze, take user to court, sentance him for illegal use of software.

MikeTheC
January 11th, 2009, 04:47 AM
The problem is who is it that gets to determine what is "suspicious", what are the parameters they have to live within, what do they go on to make the determination, and on who's authority?

If someone gets their life destroyed, it matters little that their case gets dismissed afterword.

jmorsman
January 11th, 2009, 06:03 AM
They wouldn't need to hack in at all. Just like the windows genuine advantage phones home to a third party, they could make a security patch to phone home to the authorities when something questionable was going on. Think about it how many people really look at the security updates for their computer? Most that I have seen just point and click install because windows is a trusted company. It would be quite easy to implement for the general population. Invasion of privacy or security, it does make you wonder.
However if you want something that will make you cringe about your privacy look into a company called acxiom. Here is a link to an article I find of interest.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/02/23/362182/index.htm

samjh
January 11th, 2009, 06:32 AM
Thing is. How are they actually going to get in. I sit behind a router and a firewall, they seem to quite happily protect me angainst all comers. Sow ho are the Police going to suceed where the bad guys fail?

1. Obtain warrant for wire-tap.
2. Sit on the wire and look at your traffic.
3. If illegal material is being downloaded (eg. child porn), record it.
4. Obtain warrant for search and seizure of your computer.
5. Locate illegal material on your computer.

OR

1. Obtain subpoena for your ISP to disclose your usage logs.
2. Look for sites with known illegal content.
3. Determine whether you downloaded such content.
4. Obtain warrant for search and seizure of your computer.
5. Locate illegal material on your computer.

hikaricore
January 11th, 2009, 06:44 PM
I wish them all the best of luck accessing any of my terrorist plots which are encrypted, then placed in encrypted archive files, encryped again, run through pgp, on my encrypted hard drives that I keep in an underground bunker which has walls of 6000ft solid adamantite buried in the middle of the moon.

mips
January 11th, 2009, 07:07 PM
I wish them all the best of luck accessing any of my terrorist plots which are encrypted, then placed in encrypted archive files, encryped again, run through pgp, on my encrypted hard drives that I keep in an underground bunker which has walls of 6000ft solid adamantite buried in the middle of the moon.

Post forwarded to www.dhs.gov (http://www.dhs.gov) & https://tips.fbi.gov/ ;)

hikaricore
January 11th, 2009, 07:14 PM
Post forwarded to www.dhs.gov (http://www.dhs.gov) & https://tips.fbi.gov/ ;)

Good thing I don't recognize their authority. :guitar:

diskotek
January 15th, 2009, 06:40 PM
uh it seem like i missed the point