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zerothis
January 9th, 2009, 06:50 AM
Convincing a Windows user to switch to Ubuntu relatively easy. Easier to use, easier to install, less viruses/spyware/malware (practically none), better security, easier for multiple users to get along on the same computer, multiseat computing (buy one computer use it as 2-4 computers), makes old hardware useful again, and of course its all free and more importantly Free (A concept which they do not necessarily understand, but are intrigued by). I have them try it, they see for themselves, they switch.

But, I recently encountered a group that *thinks* they already have all this (except its more expensive). I've found a lot of Mac users that *think* that Apple is Free (Opensource) as far as they understand the concept, easier than Windows and Linux to use and install, has just as many free applications and more applications than Linux, has no viruses/spyware/malware, better security, Macs don't get old, and they don't see the advantage of multiseat computing (they already subjected themselves to the Apple tax, so its not like they care about spending too much money.) I hate to see them spending money to restrict themselves and don't know where to begin helping them. They absolutely refuse to even look at my computer running Ubuntu, let alone allow it to be booted on theirs. Its a very hard sell. Does anybody have any suggestions? Who here switched and what convinced you?

ushimitsudoki
January 9th, 2009, 07:05 AM
Why should you even be trying to "sell" Ubuntu to any user, Windows or Mac?

At most, if the subject comes up, mention Ubuntu and why you use it. Outside of that, leave it alone.

Circus-Killer
January 9th, 2009, 07:08 AM
Why should you even be trying to "sell" Ubuntu to any user, Windows or Mac?

At most, if the subject comes up, mention Ubuntu and why you use it. Outside of that, leave it alone.

+1 to that

at most let them know that there is a choice, but dont choose for them.

Quantum Anomaly
January 9th, 2009, 09:22 AM
Why does it have to be one or the other?

Introduce them to Fusion or Parallels.

They may decide they still like OS X better.
They may switch to Linux.
Or they may use both for different purposes.

To each their own.

stream303
January 9th, 2009, 09:47 AM
Its a very hard sell. Does anybody have any suggestions? Who here switched and what convinced you?

Small rant about the financial situation ahead. :)

The worst way to "sell Ubuntu" is to get into their personal financial situation. Do you go around and introduce yourself to your neighbors and tell them that they have over-spent on their brand new car that may be similar to yours? That's usually not putting the best foot forward. :)

To make matters worse, what if they bought used? Got it as a gift? Found it in the dumpster? Is it any of our business? Where did my G5 iMac come from? Was I an idiot for buying new even though I am running Debian/Ubuntu/OpenSuse/OSX on it? Or did I in fact find it in the dumpster? Nobody should care either way.

Sometimes enthusiasm can do more damage than good. Show them what you do, and let the rest follow naturally - unless you open a storefront. :)

bryonak
January 9th, 2009, 10:35 AM
Every single post in here has a very good point...
Here's one more hint: Linux is not about aggressive marketing. Don't preach, mention! (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=865750)

wizard10000
January 9th, 2009, 10:36 AM
You don't.

You let them be and provide information when asked. You lead by example.

HighCommander540
January 9th, 2009, 01:25 PM
This is what you do as a Mac user my self. You ask them three questions.

1. Do you ever wish you could use Windows programs as though you were running Windows?

If they answer yes, then you simply state that Ubuntu has Wine and they can do that.

If no, we go onto question 2.

2. Do you have a program that currently allows you to do this and that is why you have never wanted to run Windows programs like that?

If they answer yes, tell them Wine is completely free versus CrossOover, Parrelles, or VMWare.

If no, then we go onto question 3.

3. Why are you so still stuck on a system that is completely based on Ubuntu (linux) and yet you have to pay a god aweful amount of money for something that was intended to be free?

If they still say no to all of that...Then well they are so stuborn and are the reason that technology is not allowed to progress in the manner it was intended to and built for and the only logic course of action is to kill them and sell their MAC.

...Now, everything is accurate and is how I got sold, up to the killing them part. Even though you should do that anyway if they still refuse.

franki.macha
January 9th, 2009, 02:03 PM
speaking for myself, osx did all the 'selling' that was necessary, ubuntu just seemed to be the best/easiest alternative.
and my macbook is much happier for it :)

Profiler
January 9th, 2009, 02:05 PM
This is what you do as a Mac user my self. You ask them three questions.

3. Why are you so still stuck on a system that is completely based on Ubuntu (linux) and yet you have to pay a god aweful amount of money for something that was intended to be free?

If they still say no to all of that...Then well they are so stuborn and are the reason that technology is not allowed to progress in the manner it was intended to and built for and the only logic course of action is to kill them and sell their MAC.

...Now, everything is accurate and is how I got sold, up to the killing them part. Even though you should do that anyway if they still refuse.

You are a mac user your self, thus you have paid a lot of money for an operation system you never use....
The reason Mac users paiy a lot is for the hardware / software compatibility, it just works out of the box.
And i personaly think that Ilife is a great software suite.
They dont have to search the whole web for drivers to get some stereo sound or running some bash lines to get the heat stabilized.

ps: i run ubuntu 8,10 on a macbook pro 5,1 myself, but no stereo and a battery live of 2hours and a lots of heat :)

Joshuwa
January 9th, 2009, 02:06 PM
You don't.

You let them be and provide information when asked. You lead by example.
+1.

The whole point of Ubuntu/Linux/Open-source is freedom of choice.

That philosophy still stands when someone else's choice differs from our own.

cyberdork33
January 9th, 2009, 03:14 PM
The reason Mac users paiy a lot is for the hardware / software compatibility, it just works out of the box.You shouldn't tell people what they bought something for. I think they will know why they purchased a Mac without you having to tell them.

In reality, there are a lot of "Linux on a Mac" users here that use *ONLY* Linux... Why? Because they like the hardware. That's it. That is probably the number one answer given by most Ubuntu-only users in this section of the forum.

For myself, I was a Windows user that played with Linux for several years. I got into Macintosh because I was tried of dealing with Windows Day to Day, and Linux does not meet my personal desires in an OS for the desktop (yet). I am a big Linux Advocate, but I use OS X primarily.

Profiler
January 9th, 2009, 04:35 PM
You shouldn't tell people what they bought something for. I think they will know why they purchased a Mac without you having to tell them.

My mistake, but let me say that the the most pro users in my direct environment buy a mac for this out of the box experience.
They couldt effort to lose some time for system incompatibilities.
They dont care about specs, Operating systems or whatever, it just need to work evey time.

ushimitsudoki
January 9th, 2009, 05:02 PM
3. Why are you so still stuck on a system that is completely based on Ubuntu (linux) and yet you have to pay a god aweful amount of money for something that was intended to be free?


OS X is not based on Linux. It is based on BSD, and this is the kind of "Free" BSD-supporters find perfectly acceptable.

Now, I don't like Apple, and I don't like the BSD philosophy of "Free", but you won't win any arguments coming in with misconceptions.

Also, while I'm here:

The whole point of Ubuntu/Linux/Open-source is freedom of choice.
This comes up all the time, but it's not true. Sounds good, but not true.

There is no "whole point" of Ubuntu/Linux/Open-source. None of these things have a single point, and what points they do have are sometimes in harmony, and sometimes in opposition.

y6FgBn)~v
January 9th, 2009, 05:07 PM
Try to imagine how you would feel if a Windows or Mac zealot tried to "sell" to you.

eddietours
January 9th, 2009, 05:40 PM
l did not the the point of mac don't get old ? l believe mac osx will force people to buy new hardware like from power pc / to intel

richg
January 9th, 2009, 06:41 PM
You are pushing on a rope.

MAC is better than Linux. I have used my grand daughter's new MAC. Yes more expensive but it works for her and I was very comfortable using it.

She went into a nearby MAC store in a local mall and had all kinds of support to start off.
Ok, she had a great advantage, she is cute and all the geeks in the store are male. She smiled and NO problems. She knows how to be a cute female. It is part of their species. Jealous?

In high school she used the family XP PC which had loads of issues.

I do all I want with Linux so this is not an issue for me.
Not everyone wants to mess with the Operating System which real Linux techies want to do.

Rich

2cute4u
January 9th, 2009, 06:55 PM
I'm a mac zealot, and I can tell you that compared to mac OS X, linux sucks in many ways. KDE is completely uinsulable to me, gnome is a workable but still lacks any sense of elegance. theree absolutly no reason that I can think of to prefer linux and it's crappuy desktop envirnments over Mac OS X.

So then why do I use linux? Because it's FREE. I don't have EULA's to deal with, I don't have to pay for software to be able to use it legally, theres no DRM vendor lock in. Macs Rock, but Apple Inc SUCKS

Joshuwa
January 9th, 2009, 07:46 PM
This comes up all the time, but it's not true. Sounds good, but not true.

There is no "whole point" of Ubuntu/Linux/Open-source. None of these things have a single point, and what points they do have are sometimes in harmony, and sometimes in opposition.

Was purchasing the computer you're using now a choice for you?

Was using a Linux-based OS a choice for you?

Was installing Ubuntu, of the many distros available, a choice for you?

If you've answered 'yes' to any of those questions, then you have exercised your right to choose Ubuntu because you're free to do so.

No one is "free" to use OS X. You have to buy it, not simply choose it. You have to use their hardware, not simply purchase you're own.

Each of us installed a Linux distro because we chose to. While Linux may not have been created simply to give computer users something to choose for choice alone, the free philosophy does indeed exist for that very reason.

Linux is not about market share. It is not about revenue or fouth-quarter profits. Linux is about freedom; sometimes it is in regards to money, other times it is in philosophy - but often times it is both.

Vadi
January 9th, 2009, 07:47 PM
Zealots are a waste of time. Sell it to normal consumers who want stuff to work and be cheap on their budget.

hanzomon4
January 9th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Hahaha!!!

This thread is hilarious :popcorn:

Mason Whitaker
January 9th, 2009, 08:15 PM
As a Mac user as well as a Linux user, I can tell you this.
It is very unlikely that you're going to convert any Mac user to Linux. One, Mac OS X in itself is a great operating system that rivals with Linux is stability and security. Two, Mac and Linux serve different purposes for users, so really can't say that one is better than the other. Macs are undeniably better at handling graphics and audio files than other operating systems. While Linux makes leaps and bounds when it comes to stability and security. Three, Macs and Linux are second cousins when it comes down to it, so why try to convert someone when they already have a great OS?

lykwydchykyn
January 9th, 2009, 08:43 PM
Tell them that Steve Jobs actually wrote Linux for use on NeXT equipment, but Microsoft forced him to sell it to Linus because they wanted him to use OSX which runs IE and office.

It's a load of horse-hockey, but if it made the rounds as info leaked from Apple we'd see Linux usage skyrocket.

:-P

.arean
January 9th, 2009, 08:51 PM
Down with censorship! :x
Up with mini-skirts! :p

RiceMonster
January 9th, 2009, 09:19 PM
You don't.

You let them be and provide information when asked. You lead by example.

+1

That's what I do. If someone wants to know about Linux, I'll tell them about it. If they want to switch, I'll help them out. If they don't ask about it, or aren't interested, I let them continue using whatever they're happy using without bothering them. That's the way it should be.

LowSky
January 9th, 2009, 09:21 PM
Just setup a version of ubuntu, and make it look like mac. Set up AWN, compiz settings set the close/max/min buttons to the left from gnome-config, use the GTK mac-style theme, and then ask them to use it.

if they actually like it, and rhink its OS/X then tell them its not and its free. Only issue is you need ot build it yourself, which will send most of them away laughing you.

Most people just want things to work. Thats why you have people asking questions on this site that have nothing to do with Ubuntu and more to do with the application running on the OS

tubezninja
January 9th, 2009, 10:13 PM
l did not the the point of mac don't get old ? l believe mac osx will force people to buy new hardware like from power pc / to intel

Actually, the PowerPC Macs have had some pretty amazing longevity. I have an old Dual G4 Mac from 2002 that is running the current version of OS X quite nicely. 7 years is the longest I've ever had any one single computer. I'd say that despite the amount of money paid for that computer, I definitely got my money's worth and then some.

Granted, the next version of OS X will not support this same computer. But then, Apple has officially supported PPC longer than even Ubuntu has. I find it unfortunate that I'll have to resort to OpenSuSE when the time comes to put this G4 out to pasture, and not install Ubuntu like I had hoped I would be able to. Oh well.

So to me "forcing you to buy new stuff" is not valid. Apple doesn't force anybody to buy anything. People who feel they must have the latest and greatest do that themselves.


As a Mac user as well as a Linux user, I can tell you this.
It is very unlikely that you're going to convert any Mac user to Linux. One, Mac OS X in itself is a great operating system that rivals with Linux is stability and security. Two, Mac and Linux serve different purposes for users, so really can't say that one is better than the other.

This hits the nail on the head. I too am a Mac/Linux user. I like Macs for their elegance, the features they afford me, the hardware design, and overall polished look and feel. I like Linux because it does some pretty wonderful things of its own, and works great in environments where the elegance of a Mac is overkill.

I will continue to buy Mac as long as I can afford to, and knock-on-wood, I'll be able to afford buying Macs for the foreseeable future. I also like Linux and will continue to use it for as long as it's available, as well.

I think the real question that needs to be asked is: why does the OP feel the need to go out of their way to proselytize? The Mac user has made their choice, and they've bought the equipment. Having someone come up to me and tell me why they think I wasted my money only detracts from linux, and would dissuade me from adopting linux had I not done so already.

A lot of linux "evangelists" out there fail to realize that their zeal to point out the negatives of a user's current setup does a real disservice in the end. People don't like being told they're dumb for using OS X or Windows, particularly when it just isn't true.

.arean
January 9th, 2009, 10:27 PM
I think the real question that needs to be asked is: why does the OP feel the need to go out of their way to proselytize? The Mac user has made their choice, and they've bought the equipment. Having someone come up to me and tell me why they think I wasted my money only detracts from linux, and would dissuade me from adopting linux had I not done so already.

A lot of linux "evangelists" out there fail to realize that their zeal to point out the negatives of a user's current setup does a real disservice in the end. People don't like being told they're dumb for using OS X or Windows, particularly when it just isn't true.

That's what I was getting at with my post that got deleted. A lot of people on these forums have this aura of smugness that rivals even the biggest of mac fanboys. I mean people talk about windows like it killed their father and raped their mother and praise linux as if it's jesus himself. I'm glad you're proud of ubuntu but it's just an operating system. You're not above windows and mac users so get over yourself.

It's like I half expect to stumble upon a thread about going door to door asking people if they've "heard the good news?"

Mason Whitaker
January 9th, 2009, 10:30 PM
You're not above windows and mac users so get over yourself.I've received similar responses from people on Linux Chatrooms. Just because I'm not a pure Linux user, and I like the ease of use that Macs offer, I'm somehow inferior to them.

Eh, that comes with every "OS Fanatic"

Vadi
January 10th, 2009, 01:42 AM
Why do they feel? Because they think it is a better solution, so letting others know - so that those can decide for themselves - is good.

smartboyathome
January 10th, 2009, 01:50 AM
Why do they feel? Because they think it is a better solution, so letting others know - so that those can decide for themselves - is good.

Letting them know is fine, but "preaching" it (which the OP is clearly intending to do) is not. My motto, "Use what works for you, not what someone else wants you to use" applies here.

Giant Speck
January 10th, 2009, 01:53 AM
Please don't be a Shuttleworth's Witness. If they are happy with their operating system, then there is no reason to interfere with that.

cardinals_fan
January 10th, 2009, 02:23 AM
This is what you do as a Mac user my self. You ask them three questions.

1. Do you ever wish you could use Windows programs as though you were running Windows?

If they answer yes, then you simply state that Ubuntu has Wine and they can do that.
WINE isn't perfect and I would never recommend it as anything more than a backup plan.


If no, we go onto question 2.

2. Do you have a program that currently allows you to do this and that is why you have never wanted to run Windows programs like that?

If they answer yes, tell them Wine is completely free versus CrossOover, Parrelles, or VMWare.
VMWare has a good free version. If you're also discussing open source freedom, VirtualBox and Qemu are both open source.


If no, then we go onto question 3.

3. Why are you so still stuck on a system that is completely based on Ubuntu (linux) and yet you have to pay a god aweful amount of money for something that was intended to be free?

Completely and utterly wrong.

You are pushing on a rope.

MAC is better than Linux for me. I have used my grand daughter's new MAC. Yes more expensive but it works for her and I was very comfortable using it.

She went into a nearby MAC store in a local mall and had all kinds of support to start off.
Ok, she had a great advantage, she is cute and all the geeks in the store are male. She smiled and NO problems. She knows how to be a cute female. It is part of their species. Jealous?

In high school she used the family XP PC which had loads of issues.

I do all I want with Linux so this is not an issue for me.
Not everyone wants to mess with the Operating System which real Linux techies want to do.

Rich
Fixed that for you.

I find it deeply ironic that the OP calls these people zealots when (s)he is proposing exactly the same sort of behavior.

MikeTheC
January 10th, 2009, 07:52 AM
While I do have hesitations and reservations in commenting further on this sort of subject, I would like to note my concern over the theme running through this thread which can be best described as "hiding under a bushel basket".

I agree with the "don't preach" notions of this thread, but to remain utterly silent is not really what I would regard as an ideal approach, either.

What I feel works best is to really say nothing and not interfere with others who, let's say in a computer store shopping instance, are just there to grab something real quick and split, but if the situation lends itself (and typically if there's an "OS discussion" of sorts going on) to merely mention something to the effect of "Well, I happen to use Linux." That's all. If it sparks further conversation, then so be it.

But being completely recalcitrant to even mention Linux is just as bad as preaching. If nobody else tries Linux, does it really matter why? (Meaning: in either event, the wrong approach was chosen.)

billgoldberg
January 10th, 2009, 01:15 PM
Convincing a Windows user to switch to Ubuntu relatively easy. Easier to use, easier to install, less viruses/spyware/malware (practically none), better security, easier for multiple users to get along on the same computer, multiseat computing (buy one computer use it as 2-4 computers), makes old hardware useful again, and of course its all free and more importantly Free (A concept which they do not necessarily understand, but are intrigued by). I have them try it, they see for themselves, they switch.

But, I recently encountered a group that *thinks* they already have all this (except its more expensive). I've found a lot of Mac users that *think* that Apple is Free (Opensource) as far as they understand the concept, easier than Windows and Linux to use and install, has just as many free applications and more applications than Linux, has no viruses/spyware/malware, better security, Macs don't get old, and they don't see the advantage of multiseat computing (they already subjected themselves to the Apple tax, so its not like they care about spending too much money.) I hate to see them spending money to restrict themselves and don't know where to begin helping them. They absolutely refuse to even look at my computer running Ubuntu, let alone allow it to be booted on theirs. Its a very hard sell. Does anybody have any suggestions? Who here switched and what convinced you?

You try the old OSX is laced with DRM and mention the vendor-lockin.

sujoy
January 10th, 2009, 01:43 PM
If someone has enough spare time then I would rather have him/her spend it (wherever that may be) helping others, or getting acquainted with the life outside, or doing something interesting, than trying to "sell" ubuntu.

albinootje
January 10th, 2009, 02:21 PM
Does anybody have any suggestions? Who here switched and what convinced you?

If I were you, I would focus on contributing to the Open Source world instead.
Think about organizing Linux install parties, doing translations, filing bug-reports, start up a LUG if there isn't one in your area yet. etc.

A possible problem with trying to convert people to Linux is that you might end up being very busy answering their questions and solving their problems.
Especially on laptops you should realise that Linux is still having serious problems with hardware vendors not suppport Linux enough (Think about powermanagement and wifi card drivers).

Also, the unhappy Windows users could possibly be really interested in switching to Linux, provided that they can spend time, and are willing to learn.
The Apple users however, with the hardware and software they bought from the same company are unlikely to be unhappy.
There's no need to switch for them, really!

Years ago I've used Linux on an apple laptop, and I've seen the problems, there's for example no flashplayer and afaik there still isn't, people are not gonna like that.
Apple users are usually very interested in having their applications running, and are usually not so interested what is under the hood of their machines.

Do your thing, do it passionately, without preaching :)

jimi_hendrix
January 10th, 2009, 02:39 PM
tell them that in ubuntu you can right click and maximize your windows O_0

MisterFlibble84
January 10th, 2009, 03:32 PM
Make a distribution that only runs on a certain kind of PC and then have some balding old guy tell them why it's cool and hip and they should totally pay twice what the PC is worth, just for it.

:)

Mason Whitaker
January 10th, 2009, 03:58 PM
tell them that in ubuntu you can right click and maximize your windows O_0

You don't need to use the one-click mouse...

el Arm
January 10th, 2009, 04:19 PM
It's like I half expect to stumble upon a thread about going door to door asking people if they've "heard the good news?"

Agreed, but sort of in reverse. There is a real similarity with the attitude of evangelicals in most replies to the O.P. - a focus on not 'preaching'.

However, let's drop all the postmodern crap and talk about the respective merits of Linux and MacOS, which is more technically interesting. The O.P. asked how they could 'sell', not for everyone's opinions on whether they should.

Personally I know very little about Macs and only something of Ubuntu, so at least for me it would be enlightening.

Mason Whitaker
January 10th, 2009, 04:40 PM
Well, you can only go as far as telling them that it's free, stable, and secure. Everything beyond that will go beyond most Mac users heads.

chucky chuckaluck
January 10th, 2009, 04:51 PM
It's like I half expect to stumble upon a thread about going door to door asking people if they've "heard the good news?"



http://e.imagehost.org/0239/slam_door.jpg

MisterFlibble84
January 10th, 2009, 04:52 PM
Well, you can only go as far as telling them that it's free, stable, and secure. Everything beyond that will go beyond most Mac users heads.

People associate "free" with worthless. They value the Mac partly because they overpaid so much for it that they have an emotional bond.

"Stable" They've been told that the Mac is the most stable system there is, even though I know it isn't, having a demo machine freeze and crash and fishing for the Force Kill.

"Secure" Compared to Windows, you could say this about anything, I've seen a few viruses that actually damaged OS X, but I haven't seen any for Linux, anyhow.....See "Stable".

And there you have some of the psychology that goes with so-called "Consumer Culture".

Mason Whitaker
January 10th, 2009, 05:31 PM
People associate "free" with worthless. They value the Mac partly because they overpaid so much for it that they have an emotional bond.

"Stable" They've been told that the Mac is the most stable system there is, even though I know it isn't, having a demo machine freeze and crash and fishing for the Force Kill.

"Secure" Compared to Windows, you could say this about anything, I've seen a few viruses that actually damaged OS X, but I haven't seen any for Linux, anyhow.....See "Stable".

And there you have some of the psychology that goes with so-called "Consumer Culture".

1. I haven't had my Mac crash on me yet, and I haven't had any need to contact Apple about any problems with it. :S
2. There are no true viruses for the OSX, its just that the virus applications take advantage of security holes in programs. There not true viruses in the sense of Windows Viruses. Still, they can't take advantage over the system itself.
3. OSX is Unix Based, which is stable in it of itself, so why in the hell are you going to such a great lengths to dis it?

Skripka
January 10th, 2009, 05:36 PM
1. I haven't had my Mac crash on me yet, and I haven't had any need to contact Apple about any problems with it. :S
2. There are no true viruses for the OSX, its just that the virus applications take advantage of security holes in programs. There not true viruses in the sense of Windows Viruses. Still, they can't take advantage over the system itself.
3. OSX is Unix Based, which is stable in it of itself, so why in the hell are you going to such a great lengths to dis it?

Would you like to try my UnderPoweredBookG4, that is out of warranty-and will emergency shut-down shortly after boot, believing it is overheated? I'm thankful for that little laptop disaster in a way though-it led me to using Linux.

All machines can have their problems.

Frak
January 10th, 2009, 06:32 PM
2. There are no true viruses for the OSX, its just that the virus applications take advantage of security holes in programs. There not true viruses in the sense of Windows Viruses. Still, they can't take advantage over the system itself.

I would completely agree with you, but I've seemed to get an influx of OS X users with Viruses all of a sudden within the past 4 months. It's the AppleScript.THT Trojan horse (http://www.securemac.com/applescript-tht-trojan-horse.php). It affects both Intel and PPC lines. I have advised all of my customers, those of which use Limewire a lot as you can guess, to use an Anti-Virus now.

Mason Whitaker
January 10th, 2009, 06:35 PM
Would you like to try my UnderPoweredBookG4, that is out of warranty-and will emergency shut-down shortly after boot, believing it is overheated? I'm thankful for that little laptop disaster in a way though-it led me to using Linux.

All machines can have their problems.Powerbooks are comparably archaic to the newer Mac models, and I can agree with you that powerbook line had some major problems.

jimi_hendrix
January 10th, 2009, 06:37 PM
at my school its aboutt 50/50 mac/pc uses (judging by what laptops they use)

they all think macs are "fast" and stable...

there is one kid though who i am convinced is hacking something in vim during science class...if only i sat close enough to read it!

andrewabc
January 10th, 2009, 06:38 PM
Charge $100 to update to the newest version of ubuntu every 6 months.

jimi_hendrix
January 10th, 2009, 06:42 PM
"technological literacy" levels also have something to do with it...

imo if you want everything in your face all the time so you cant possibly mess up use a mac...if you want slight more complexity use windows....if you dont mind using google every now and then and opening up terminal use linux

cardinals_fan
January 10th, 2009, 07:03 PM
Well, you can only go as far as telling them that it's free, stable, and secure. Everything beyond that will go beyond most Mac users heads.
Stable: stability depends more on the software you use than the actual OS. Just about all of the major operating systems on the market right now have pretty stable kernels. Stability is mostly up to the user's choice of apps.

Secure: security depends mostly on user competence.

I would completely agree with you, but I've seemed to get an influx of OS X users with Viruses all of a sudden within the past 4 months. It's the AppleScript.THT Trojan horse (http://www.securemac.com/applescript-tht-trojan-horse.php). It affects both Intel and PPC lines. I have advised all of my customers, those of which use Limewire a lot as you can guess, to use an Anti-Virus now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_virus

A computer virus is a computer program that can copy itself and infect a computer without permission or knowledge of the user. The term "virus" is also commonly but erroneously used to refer to other types of malware, adware and spyware programs that do not have the reproductive ability.
Your link says:

The user must download and open the Trojan horse in order to become infected
Therefore, the problem is uninformed users who run an administrative account and don't take basic precautions. A firewall might be helpful, but signature-based antivirus apps will probably do as much good as a sacrifice to the Mac gods below the full moon.

Frak
January 10th, 2009, 07:08 PM
You have to download a virus to become infected. A trojan is a virus. A trojan, very simply looks like a helpful program, but in all actuality facilitates a Virus installation. Most virus infections are caused by Trojan Horses. The Wikipedia entry is erraneous. Any program that compromises a system on purpose, whether user facilitated or not, is a Virus. Spyware is an illegal form of adware (i.e. not informing the user of installation) and adware is the legal form of spyware, one that the user is informed of (usually in the fine print).

cardinals_fan
January 10th, 2009, 07:20 PM
You have to download a virus to become infected. A trojan is a virus. A trojan, very simply looks like a helpful program, but in all actuality facilitates a Virus installation. Most virus infections are caused by Trojan Horses. The Wikipedia entry is erraneous. Any program that compromises a system on purpose, whether user facilitated or not, is a Virus. Spyware is an illegal form of adware (i.e. not informing the user of installation) and adware is the legal form of spyware, one that the user is informed of (usually in the fine print).
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=slitaz%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=AxN&q=define%3Acomputer+virus&btnG=Search

virus: a software program capable of reproducing itself and usually capable of causing great harm to files or other programs on the same computer ...

A dangerous computer program with the characteristic feature of being able to generate copies of itself, and thereby spread throughout the ...

is a self-replicating computer program that spreads by inserting copies of itself into other executable code or documents. ...
These are three quotes that basically define "virus" to me. There are also some on that page that support your definition. These reproducing viruses that spread on their own are rather rare now, thanks to filtering by routers, ISPs, and email providers. Either way, the point is that the user must provide confirmation for the system to be infected with the malware you mentioned. A limited user account and basic security precautions are the best method to avoid infection. Signature-based AVs are useful for removing the malware once it takes hold, but do almost nothing in terms of prevention.

Frak
January 10th, 2009, 07:26 PM
These are three quotes that basically define "virus" to me. There are also some on that page that support your definition. These reproducing viruses that spread on their own are rather rare now, thanks to filtering by routers, ISPs, and email providers. Either way, the point is that the user must provide confirmation for the system to be infected with the malware you mentioned. A limited user account and basic security precautions are the best method to avoid infection. Signature-based AVs are useful for removing the malware once it takes hold, but do almost nothing in terms of prevention.

My definition comes from the CompTIA definition of a Virus, along with Microsoft's. Malware is everything rolled up together, but a Virus is anything that compromises a system intentionally.

And yes, the user must give confirmation, but remember: How did the Trojan horse get through the gates?...

cardinals_fan
January 10th, 2009, 07:29 PM
And yes, the user must give confirmation, but remember: How did the Trojan horse get through the gates?...
Again, user arrogance, incompetence, or ignorance are the three main issues. Using an admin account for day-to-day use is a good example of any of the three, and any kind of AV (especially one based on signatures) will do very little to help.

Frak
January 10th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Again, user arrogance, incompetence, or ignorance are the three main issues. Using an admin account for day-to-day use is a good example of any of the three, and any kind of AV (especially one based on signatures) will do very little to help.
Well, I see Mac users blindly enter their password for anything. "This program needs elevated privileges to use iTunes, please enter your password to continue...".

I use Threatfire for Windows, which scans for Zero-Day exploits. I only wish they had a Mac version.

cardinals_fan
January 10th, 2009, 07:42 PM
Well, I see Mac users blindly enter their password for anything. "This program needs elevated privileges to use iTunes, please enter your password to continue...".
That would be a classic example of arrogance, incompetence, and ignorance.


I use Threatfire for Windows, which scans for Zero-Day exploits. I only wish they had a Mac version.
Yes! I've been waiting to see another ThreatFire fan around here. I've used it in my XP virtual machine for the past few weeks, and I posted a brief review in Windows Discussions a little while back. Behavior-based scanning is the way to go for the 0.1% of security that isn't handled by common sense.

handy
January 11th, 2009, 02:26 AM
Perhaps you could drug them?

Hypnotise or brainwash them?

Threaten them with violence?

Bribe them in some fashion?

You could try educating them, but when all of the knowledge is weighed up you would still get a very unpredictable result...

This thread's title is obviously meant to inspire humour...

napalm brain
January 11th, 2009, 02:45 AM
Macs are sexy. Whenever I've used one, much to my chagrin, it's been user-friendly, loaded with eye-candy and a very pleasant experience.

Whenever people ask what I use, I smile, say Ubuntu/Debian Linux, and they normally stare. They then ask the difference. I just say, "There's some structural differences, but there really aren't a great deal." Depending on the person, they usually ask if I can get viruses/trojans/worms, what have you, and I say yes, as you can, but the chances aren't very high. Then, depending on the individual, they ask whether I can use Vista. I say yes, I too have an emulator. They aren't anything special.

My favorite argument is how it's free and open-source, and extremely customizable. Which certainly sets any Linux distribution away from the pack.

I usually conclude with, "Well, you've paid...over a grand (in most circumstances), I've paid nothing. That's a big difference between your OS and mine."

There's no need to sell it. When it comes down to it, Linux can be an extension of your personality, much more so than OSX or Windows 7. Show them it, if they're interested, they'll say, "Where can I get that?" If not, then so be it. You must take into consideration that they're probably very happy with their OS and change probably is not necessary in that situation. I doubt many people will be convinced with the the philosophical notions of GNU, or any such Unix-like operating system.

handy
January 11th, 2009, 03:51 AM
@napalm brain: I don't hold out much hope for your strategy working on a genuine Mac zealot though. ;-)

Zealots are tunnel visioned fanatics, they are individual's who will not tolerate the existence of anything that opposes the focus of their zealotry.

Taidgh
January 11th, 2009, 04:01 AM
Who here switched and what convinced you?
I used to be purely a mac user, and switched (my new main computer runs only ubuntu 8.10) pretty much because of the price of hardware. At least, at first. Of course I also saw the advantage of open source and being able to be 't3h unix haxxorz'. But I could only afford a x86 pc, and as a mac user, wouldn't touch windows with a bargepole. Linux seemed the only plausible option. Switching from macs can be hard, as despite the evil corporation-ness of Apple, their computers do work incredibly well. I now use solely Linux, but I do get many more bugs/random crashes then I did with my old G3 mac running 10.3. Also, while the mac os/software is expensive, I always just used cracked versions. I like to think Linux has made me into a more ethical computer user.

Frak
January 11th, 2009, 10:05 AM
@napalm brain: I don't hold out much hope for your strategy working on a genuine Mac zealot though. ;-)

Zealots are tunnel visioned fanatics, they are individual's who will not tolerate the existence of anything that opposes the focus of their zealotry.
Amen.

AFarris01
January 11th, 2009, 10:07 AM
1 simple answer: Ubuntu sells itself if theres an interest. if theres no interest, don't bother.

when i work on computers, i always like to use ubuntu live-cds to do a lot of the work, because theres actually methods in place where i can troubleshoot hardware easily, i can do simple file browsing/moving a lot faster and more comfortably than i ever could on windows, and it gives the opportunity to generate interest.

sometimes people get curious as to what i'm doing, I explain and they either get interested and want to know more (or they want a copy, which i freely give), or they're satisfied and thats the end of it. thats as far as i go introducing ubuntu/linux to people most times.

as for some of the other comments in this thread, particularly the ones making claims that so-and-so OS is better than so-and-so OS etc etc... thats you're opinion... be more humble about it, because just because you believe it does not make it fact. someone agreeing with you doesn't make it fact either: 100 people that agree with each other on wrong data are still 100 wrong people, no matter which side of the fence they pick.

Me personally, I'm a linux/ubuntu user... as a lot of people have mentioned before... by my choice, and mine alone. its a choice that I've made, and that I'm happy with. Linux may not work for some people, or it may not be what they're looking for. Certainly, if they've already got something they're happy with, or proud of, theres no need at all to try and force them into something else. all you'll end up with is a bunch of pissed off people, and somebody else that will be even MORE closed-minded the next time the subject is broached. As hard as it may be sometimes, just remember to teach, not preach... it's the best advice you can get from anybody.

Not that i expect anybody to care, but from my own personal perspective:
I've used Macs, I've used windows, and to be quite honest after dealing with the mac's "spiffy" interface and "interesting" design, and trudging through all sorts of issues with viruses, and system instability with windows, I switched to using FreeDOS as my main OS for a while because i just flat-**** liked it better. the only problem was i wanted to do more with my computer than i could through DOS, so i went back to windows, then finally to linux, where i've stayed firmly put.

Let people choose their own path... things are so much more rewarding that way, for all involved.

HighCommander540
January 15th, 2009, 10:49 PM
I agree that BSD, Unix, and Linux are technically not the same thing; but you all know as well as I do that they are blended and derived from the same basic starting point.

Now that fact that they have evolved seprately and in different directions, doesn't get rid of the fact that they are are built around the same concept and have pretty much the same standards comapred to Windows.

I am not saying that you have to be the most honest person in the wordl, because who really ever is. For the most part 95% of people who buy a MAC are not going to know the difference when you tell them that MAC and Ubuntu are based on Linux.

WINE is not perfect, obviously, but it is a great alternative especially the new versions.

Frak
January 16th, 2009, 01:07 AM
Mac is based on BSD Unix, not Linux. They're not built around the same concepts, and they only follow they standards because the standards were in place before they arrived.

jimi_hendrix
January 16th, 2009, 01:52 AM
why are we still fighting about this...

Giant Speck
January 16th, 2009, 01:54 AM
Damn, I thought this thread died already. I guess I was wrong.

jimi_hendrix
January 16th, 2009, 01:58 AM
fact is simple:

linux is better because you can maximize windows fully (i mean fully...not take up all of the screen except for the launcher) even when linux uses a launcher

deepclutch
January 16th, 2009, 11:54 AM
those using mac/os x are hard coded into praising its founder and more into feeling a fake superiority complex.I remember Ayush Arya(search!) of a digit india forum very much.he remembers me the same.It is like a diode - One way only.rants and rants.even windows users are sane.

HighCommander540
January 16th, 2009, 01:22 PM
Mac is based on BSD Unix, not Linux. They're not built around the same concepts, and they only follow they standards because the standards were in place before they arrived.

Ok, I am sorry you are right. They are not the exactly same thing, but for all intensive purposes they are. I mean hell they are even in the same category. If you look it up on most internet sites, they have BSD Unix and Linux side-by-side as same technology.

I am sorry for all of the people that have a stick up there a** for one side or the other, but you all need to get over it. Its one of the reasons that none of the *nixs ever get truly popular, because everyone tries to separate everything too much or make their own.

Communities are supposed to be united under one cause for the betterment of all. If you aren't willing to do that. Well the I personally don't want to be apart of your alleged community.

solitaire
January 16th, 2009, 04:55 PM
How do I 'sell' ubuntu to Mac zealots?


Stick Ubuntu in a shiny white case, with a ridiculously high price tag on it, say their will only be a limited supply, an they will que round the block 24h in advance to get a copy.... :D
(joke!)

forrestcupp
January 16th, 2009, 05:10 PM
You have to buy a ridiculously expensive computer that already has MacOS installed on it to even be able to use MacOS. If they didn't want to use MacOS, they would have payed a lot less money for a cheaper PC. So, why in the world would you try to talk someone into taking their expensive Mac that they bought just for the OS and erasing MacOS just to install a free OS that they could have installed on a cheap PC?

Besides, Mac users use MacOS because it's a simple, fool proof OS. That is the main selling point over Windows, it's extremely easy to use and you don't have to do any tinkering. So that type of person doesn't seem like a great candidate to force an OS on where you have to do a lot of tinkering.

If you want to sell Ubuntu, sell it to the proper candidates.

cardinals_fan
January 16th, 2009, 06:22 PM
fact is simple:

linux is better because you can maximize windows fully (i mean fully...not take up all of the screen except for the launcher) even when linux uses a launcher
Ratpoison is better because all windows are maximized.

Giant Speck
January 16th, 2009, 11:00 PM
for all intensive purposes

For all intents and purposes. ;)

deepclutch
January 17th, 2009, 07:35 AM
what if el jobso proclaimed GNU/Linux is better?will they hear?and followed by keynotes :P

forrestcupp
January 17th, 2009, 01:15 PM
For all intents and purposes. ;)

Some purposes are intensive. :)

PartisanEntity
January 17th, 2009, 01:42 PM
Why should you even be trying to "sell" Ubuntu to any user, Windows or Mac?

At most, if the subject comes up, mention Ubuntu and why you use it. Outside of that, leave it alone.

+1

There is nothing more annoying than someone trying to 'impose', even if in good will, their preferences on others.

Operating systems are tools, lines of code. Not lifestyles, religions or ideologies. Operating systems, software and computers should not govern our lives.

Use the most appropriate tool for the job, period. It's just like using a fork or knife when eating.

I use both Ubuntu and Mac on a daily basis. I need the Mac for my graphic design and web development work, and I like to use Ubuntu for many other things.

But don't get me wrong, in all honesty I too, when I was new to the community, went through such a phase where I was ranting and raving about Ubuntu to friends and family.

It gets you nowhere.

jimi_hendrix
January 17th, 2009, 02:24 PM
Ratpoison is better because all windows are maximized.

and you can get that on linux and 99% of mac users have never heard of ratpoison

jimi_hendrix
January 17th, 2009, 02:26 PM
But don't get me wrong, in all honesty I too, when I was new to the community, went through such a phase where I was ranting and raving about Ubuntu to friends and family.


doesnt everyone?

zerothis
February 3rd, 2009, 11:06 PM
Well, thank you for the responses. Some people contacted me privately with some very good ideas and a few of the responses here were also helpful.

The most important thing I've learned from this is that many of you haven't actually switched.

Foster Grant
February 4th, 2009, 06:23 AM
Does anybody have any suggestions?

You're going about it the wrong way. Try smartboyathome's advice, for starters: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=865750

apple+
July 20th, 2009, 12:54 AM
I've been sold on using Ubuntu.And i'm a "Mac Zealot".I still think OS X is great.

AllRadioisDead
July 20th, 2009, 01:21 AM
Why do people feel the need to aggressively promote Linux? I came to linux by choice, not because someone shoved it in my face, and I believe others should too.
I have nothing against mentioning or showing it to your friends, but I don't think it makes sense to pressure people when they're clearly happy with what they have.

Arup
July 20th, 2009, 02:46 AM
No need to sell Linux, just make them aware and most likely, many are already aware. Problem is that unlike Windows users who are willing to listen to the reasoning, Mac users are convinced about the aura of invincibility and exclusivity of their OS of the Gods. So its just like talking to a wall and even there you would be better off. Even if they are present with some glaring security issues on Mac exposed recently, they just make themselves selectively deaf.

Regenweald
July 20th, 2009, 04:06 AM
In my case Ubuntu sold itself. I'm using karmic, my sis home for the holidays used it a couple of times and told me she wants it for her machine. can't get over the speed :) All they need to do is use it, and they will come......

hanzomon4
July 20th, 2009, 04:38 AM
No need to sell Linux, just make them aware and most likely, many are already aware. Problem is that unlike Windows users who are willing to listen to the reasoning, Mac users are convinced about the aura of invincibility and exclusivity of their OS of the Gods. So its just like talking to a wall and even there you would be better off. Even if they are present with some glaring security issues on Mac exposed recently, they just make themselves selectively deaf.

As if linux doesn't have any vulnerabilities... Why can't some of you get it, that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's worthless.

.Maleficus.
July 20th, 2009, 04:58 AM
Problem is that unlike Windows users who are willing to listen to the reasoning, Linux users are convinced about the aura of invincibility and exclusivity of their OS of the Gods. So its just like talking to a wall and even there you would be better off. Even if they are present with some glaring security issues on Linux exposed recently, they just make themselves selectively deaf.
Discuss.

AllRadioisDead
July 20th, 2009, 05:21 AM
Discuss.
I agree.

MikeTheC
July 20th, 2009, 05:49 AM
Shouldn't this be moved to the Recurring Discussions area so it can be debated back and forth ad nauseum?

HappinessNow
July 20th, 2009, 05:56 AM
How do I 'sell' ubuntu to Mac zealots?

You don't.

Don't even mention it.

frup
July 20th, 2009, 06:00 AM
My 2 cents:

If you want to get anyone to try Linux why not ask if they have an old computer lying around that they want to have fun/experiment with/get new use out of. Find out its specs and recommend a good distro.

Getting someone to try Linux and like it is never going to work if you force it on them, they will blame any problems on you or Linux.

If you let them try it and play with it and choose what they want to do with it they will look at Linux much the same way you probably do.

With a Mac user get them fired up as an ally in anti-windows fighting, if that's your thing, get rid of that windows, use something similar to your awesome Mac... Try Ubuntu on that old PC. (explain how they can theme it like their cool Mac too). You never know they might like it, if they don't they were never going to.

Arup
July 20th, 2009, 06:03 AM
As if linux doesn't have any vulnerabilities... Why can't some of you get it, that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's worthless.

Well, all the so called vulnerabilities have not yet bought Linux down, otherwise all the critical enterprise systems running Linux would bring the world to a halt. Why can't you get out of Windows and Mac hype mentality? What happens in those two don't happen in Linux.In a recent pwn2own event, the much hyped Mac fell first followed by Vista and guess what, at the end of the day, a older Gutsy was still left standing, enough said.

Dimitriid
July 20th, 2009, 06:11 AM
Each user deserves the OS that they use and the problems that come with it: the last thing I want is pretentious mac users flooding Ubuntu forums.

Pogeymanz
July 20th, 2009, 06:37 AM
The things that appeal to me in Linux over Mac are these:

1. Freedom, but this isn't important to most people, so forget it.
2. Cost. But if they already have a Mac, this point in moot.
3. Modularity. I can use whatever WM with whatever filemanager, with whatever panel, etc.
4. Customization. This goes with number 2 kind of.

I don't think you'll be able to convince a Mac person to convert to Linux as their main OS. Though, my room mate for the summer (he has a Mac) is totally excited about free software after I sent him a link to a youtube video of Richard Stallman talking about copyright laws. He proceeded to watch every english youtube video of RMS and loves the guy.

So maybe try that!

handy
July 20th, 2009, 10:36 AM
We have some Macs in our household.

I predominantly use Arch on my iMac, as it allows me to configure virtually everything to suit myself, it is faster in every way & I can update the entire system by typing a few characters & hitting enter.

When Arch has trouble (usually because of ATi's miserable Linux support) I boot into Leopard & carry on. Leopard is reliable, superficially simple to use & I can do everything I need to on it. I can't adjust the size of every font on the system (which is particularly irritating on a 24" high res' screen) & it has far more than I need (even after I've deleted heaps of it), but it always works.

The always works & ease of use/maintenance & the vastly superior security compared to the MS products is what would attract so many users to the Mac.

It may cost a bit more to buy (depending on which part of the world you live in as to how much more), though for most windows converts, the extra they pay initially is saved in down time, frustration, & having to pay someone to fix their windows system again.

Most computer users don't want to know about how the thing works, they just want to get the job done as quickly & easily as possible. For those people, there is still no competition for the Mac OS.

For those of us that like to know how it works & configure things to suit ourselves then Linux & BSD are great, & we have so many choices, we also have problems, depending on the hardware & to some degree the distro' or if we are using a BSD.

Linux & the other BSD's are still no competition for the average Joe(sephine) user out there, the Mac's admittedly for a price, just make it (nearly) all too easy.

[Edit:] To answer the OP, why convert people?

Just let them do what they choose?

If they like you can show them something, if they are interested they will pursue it, if not they won't.

Freedom of choice is most important, being coerced is an invasion.

t0p
July 20th, 2009, 12:09 PM
All this "don't preach" crap really irritates me. There's nothing wrong with a little preaching, as long as it's done sensitively and in the right kind of environment.

I'm no God-squadder. But you've gotta admire the Christian church for its ability to get into every nook and cranny it can find. And how did it become so pervasive? Clue: their spokespeople didn't go round just "mentioning" it to the infidels.

Sure, the fanatical idiots who bang on about the evils of Micro$oft and the wonderful blessed saint rms are not so cool. But a little preaching can be okay. As long as the FSF don't establish a new Spanish Inquisition. ("Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" :p)


the last thing I want is pretentious mac users flooding Ubuntu forums.


Heh heh. Sweeet. :D

Mazza558
July 20th, 2009, 12:56 PM
Speaking from personal experience, Ubuntu is pretty difficult to get working on a Mac, so for a novice user it would be hell. Until Ubuntu supports Macs (or vice-versa), it'd be better to showcase Ubuntu on hardware which fully supports it and therefore shows it off the best.

Bear in mind that it's all about the applications - many of the best Linux apps have OS X ports and therefore the Mac users will feel no need at all to switch.

hanzomon4
July 20th, 2009, 06:48 PM
Well, all the so called vulnerabilities have not yet bought Linux down, otherwise all the critical enterprise systems running Linux would bring the world to a halt. Why can't you get out of Windows and Mac hype mentality? What happens in those two don't happen in Linux.In a recent pwn2own event, the much hyped Mac fell first followed by Vista and guess what, at the end of the day, a older Gutsy was still left standing, enough said.

New Linux Flaw Enables Null Pointer Exploits (http://threatpost.com/blogs/researcher-uses-new-linux-kernel-flaw-bypass-selinux-other-protections)

Get off my lawn...

mynameinc
July 20th, 2009, 07:37 PM
You don't... you sell "OS X" to them.
See this link: http://maketecheasier.com/turn-your-ubuntu-intrepid-into-mac-osx-leopard/2009/01/08 It's about making Ubuntu look like OS X. If you can show them it can look like OS X, you could get them to try it, and the rest should be easy.

hanzomon4
July 20th, 2009, 07:39 PM
You don't... you sell "OS X" to them.
See this link: http://maketecheasier.com/turn-your-ubuntu-intrepid-into-mac-osx-leopard/2009/01/08 It's about making Ubuntu look like OS X. If you can show them it can look like OS X, you could get them to try it, and the rest should be easy.

No... because contrary to popular opinion around here, it's not about the look.

mynameinc
July 20th, 2009, 07:44 PM
No... because contrary to popular opinion around here, it's not about the look.

What's it about? The software?

Skripka
July 20th, 2009, 08:00 PM
What's it about? The software?

Get back to me when an OSX-look-a-like Ubuntu install can run Aperture.

handy
July 21st, 2009, 04:25 AM
The subject of trying to sell anything that opposes a subject's zealotry seems to me to be a waste of time, unless you are looking to (im)prove your sales prowess. :confused:

Or like to start discussions that will draw zealots with various obsessions into a common arena in a forum for personal entertainment... :popcorn:

starcannon
July 21st, 2009, 04:32 AM
Why should you even be trying to "sell" Ubuntu to any user, Windows or Mac?

At most, if the subject comes up, mention Ubuntu and why you use it. Outside of that, leave it alone.

Promoting something you find useful is generally considered a good thing; I am wondering why it has all of a sudden been considered bad to continue word of mouth promotion of Linux. Indeed, it seemed quite acceptable, even to a degree encouraged, to word of mouth promote Linux, that is, right up until sometime shortly after the linsux.org raids.

I for one will continue promoting, and I won't worry about being P.C. about it (enjoy the pun, I did); I'll continue on, even if its not cool to do so.

Enjoy your fresh Ubuntu.

edit:
Is it just me or is there now a zealous anti-zealot group running amok?

chucky chuckaluck
July 21st, 2009, 04:37 AM
You don't... you sell "OS X" to them.
See this link: http://maketecheasier.com/turn-your-ubuntu-intrepid-into-mac-osx-leopard/2009/01/08 It's about making Ubuntu look like OS X. If you can show them it can look like OS X, you could get them to try it, and the rest should be easy.

even if you put a blond wig on a donkey, most drunk guys would still be able to tell the difference.

yabbadabbadont
July 21st, 2009, 04:46 AM
even if you put a blond wig on a donkey, most drunk guys would still be able to tell the difference.

Thank you very much! I haven't laughed that hard in quite a while.

(I think I woke my neighbor... :lol:)