View Full Version : So my uncle is starting an internet cafe...
Mason Whitaker
December 28th, 2008, 06:35 PM
So my uncle is starting an internet cafe, and he wants me to help get it started and work there when completed. We've already decided to use computers running Linux, with the option for users to use Windows XP under a Virtualbox. My uncle has had experience in setting up Linux servers in the past, and at the moment works for a company called Hobsons directing their Oracle Servers.
Anywho, my question to the community is, what would be the ideal Linux to run under these circumstances?
MaxIBoy
December 28th, 2008, 06:39 PM
For a netcafe, I'd suggest either Fedora or Debian with tasteful Compiz effects (but don't go over the top with them.)
Mason Whitaker
December 28th, 2008, 06:39 PM
For a netcafe, I'd suggest either Fedora or Debian with tasteful Compiz effects (but don't go over the top with them.)
Yeah, I was planning on going as far as Wobbly Windows...I don't want to confuse the crap out of people :P
Giant Speck
December 28th, 2008, 06:41 PM
Yeah, I was planning on going as far as Wobbly Windows...I don't want to confuse the crap out of people :P
What the hell was in that coffee?
There was a cube, man.... A CUBE.
perce
December 28th, 2008, 06:56 PM
Yeah, I was planning on going as far as Wobbly Windows...I don't want to confuse the crap out of people :P
Please, no wobbly windows! They are fun to play with, but I find extremely annoying and confusing when I'm working.
MaxIBoy
December 28th, 2008, 06:56 PM
What the hell was in that coffee?
There was a cube, man.... A CUBE.
*Cough* hee, hee, hee...
I think that wobbly windows help me out a little (if they're not TOO wobbly.) If they actually have some weight and physics to them, my brain can see them as physical objects. It actually helps my productivity.
earthpigg
December 28th, 2008, 07:27 PM
Anywho, my question to the community is, what would be the ideal Linux to run under these circumstances?
8.04 LTS, with giant icons for everything on the desktop?
albinootje
December 28th, 2008, 07:39 PM
So my uncle is starting an internet cafe, and he wants me to help get it started and work there when completed. We've already decided to use computers running Linux, with the option for users to use Windows XP under a Virtualbox. My uncle has had experience in setting up Linux servers in the past, and at the moment works for a company called Hobsons directing their Oracle Servers.
Great! :)
Anywho, my question to the community is, what would be the ideal Linux to run under these circumstances?
You can search for "kiosk linux" to find options to create a restricted environment.
http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/src/kiosk/
http://kiosk.mozdev.org/kiosk-links.html
I remember from many years ago hearing from someone that one big Internet Cafe was using VMware for their clients.
After a user would log out, then the machine would reboot, and a fresh image would be written to the disk.
You could employ something like that.
(I don't like VMware myself, but this was just an example).
HermanAB
December 28th, 2008, 08:30 PM
Something like this?
http://cyborg.sourceforge.net/index.html.en
http://zeiberbude.sourceforge.net/
Mason Whitaker
December 28th, 2008, 09:18 PM
Thanks for the references guys, I'll look into them right now.
As for you Giant Speck, you made me lol hard :p
hotweiss
December 28th, 2008, 09:55 PM
Just remember to get the most comfortable chairs that you can get, so that the customer never wants to stand up and walk away from the internet.
Mason Whitaker
December 28th, 2008, 09:57 PM
Just remember to get the most comfortable chairs that you can get, so that the customer never wants to stand up and walk away from the internet.
Well right now he's in the process of waiting to see if his offer on a building that he wants to for the cafe is going to be accepted or not...I'll talk to him about getting some comfy chairs :P
albinootje
December 28th, 2008, 10:06 PM
just remember to get the most comfortable chairs that you can get, so that the customer never wants to stand up and walk away from the internet.
lol :)
Mason Whitaker
December 28th, 2008, 10:08 PM
I just finished talking to my uncle over the phone, and we've agreed that we should hand out free Ubuntu discs to people who ask for them.
Does Canonical ship CD's on bulk? :P
If they don't, we can just burn the CD's ourselves and put the ubuntu logo on them or something.
inxygnuu
December 28th, 2008, 10:11 PM
make sure that Firefox is already opened for them. When i had a cousin over, and he was trying to shut it down, "So Evan, where is the start bar" I laughed. I also had to tell him how to open up Firefox, he was looking for Internet Exploder.
inxygnuu
December 28th, 2008, 10:14 PM
I just finished talking to my uncle over the phone, and we've agreed that we should hand out free Ubuntu discs to people who ask for them.
Does Canonical ship CD's on bulk? :P
If they don't, we can just burn the CD's ourselves and put the ubuntu logo on them or something.
FINALLY! Ubuntu can finally grow more! I would definitely advertise that they are there somewhere, just to get some more users. I hope that we have at least 1% of the market share by the end of 2009.
blazercist
December 28th, 2008, 10:14 PM
If you are going to go as far as having XP in VM's you should probably just go all out and have a dual boot, reason being that you'll spend the same amoutn for the licenses and people can play their new 3d games. A lot of internet cafe users come to play game over the lan with their friends and a VM won't cut it for some newer games.
Mason Whitaker
December 28th, 2008, 10:14 PM
make sure that Firefox is already opened for them. When i had a cousin over, and he was trying to shut it down, "So Evan, where is the start bar" I laughed. I also had to tell him how to open up Firefox, he was looking for Internet Exploder.That was beautiful :P
I was thinking about having stuff like Firefox and Pidgin out on the desktop for them, so they don't have to go to applications and find it themselves.
It would make it easier for the ignorants amongst them :P
If you are going to go as far as having XP in VM's you should probably just go all out and have a dual boot, reason being that you'll spend the same amoutn for the licenses and people can play their new 3d games. A lot of internet cafe users come to play game over the lan with their friends and a VM won't cut it for some newer games.
We thought about that, but then couldn't we just use Crossover Games?
lswest
December 28th, 2008, 10:20 PM
As far as I know you can get bulk shipments of CDs, but they take longer to ship (seeing as you're still setting the shop up, shouldn't be a problem).
Other than that, I agree with going with Ubuntu or Fedora or so.
Good luck with the startup!
Also, about the XP idea. I'd say have a dedicated PC for gaming running XP, and the others for less-intensive usage stuff with VMs on XP? Because if you have dual-boots on all the computers, you'll probably both confuse customers, and have them shy away from using Linux, they'll stick with what they know. (As seen with netbooks).
inxygnuu
December 28th, 2008, 10:28 PM
.....Also, about the XP idea. I'd say have a dedicated PC for gaming running XP, and the others for less-intensive usage stuff with VMs on XP? Because if you have dual-boots on all the computers, you'll probably both confuse customers, and have them shy away from using Linux, they'll stick with what they know. (As seen with netbooks).
he does have a point. You should just take a poll or something, asking about games that they would like to play and see if crossover or wine can run them. or just install flash player, and they can play online.
albinootje
December 28th, 2008, 10:37 PM
he does have a point. You should just take a poll or something, asking about games that they would like to play and see if crossover or wine can run them.
Or Cedega.
or just install flash player, and they can play online.
Good point.
You could also make it Linux only (with game emulation), except for one slower machine running XP :)
Mason Whitaker
December 28th, 2008, 10:43 PM
I'm wondering if I can charge them more to use Windows XP :p
I'm thinking that because the building we want has two stories, we could set up the ground level with casual linux PC's and the actual cafe, and the second floor could be a gaming lounge with Windows XP or Vista.
Money, in this case, is not a problem since my Uncle is already making around $140,000 at his job as an Oracle Server Admin, and his credit is excellent :P
Luckily, we live in a college town, so we can expect alot of college students to be using our facilities.
albinootje
December 28th, 2008, 10:54 PM
I'm wondering if I can charge them more to use Windows XP :p
I'm thinking that because the building we want has two stories, we could set up the ground level with casual linux PC's and the actual cafe, and the second floor could be a gaming lounge with Windows XP or Vista.
Money, in this case, is not a problem since my Uncle is already making around $140,000 at his job as an Oracle Server Admin, and his credit is excellent :P
Luckily, we live in a college town, so we can expect alot of college students to be using our facilities.
Glad to hear this wonderful news. Thanks for sharing! :D
speedwell68
December 29th, 2008, 02:27 AM
Personally I'd go for Mint 6, it has all the proprietary stuff, that your customers are going to want, pre-installed, which is going to save a lot of setup time. I'd revet to the stock GNOME menu as I think the Mint one sucks. I'd also not bother with any of the clever COMPIZ stuff, it will only put users off. I'd design I local homepage for Firefox, with direct links to all the major webmail providers. Include some Google ads to try and make some money back, a google search box on there would earn you some cash.
fedex1993
December 29th, 2008, 03:08 AM
i remember someone here on UF started a internet cafe in brazilla i think or somewhere in south america where they used a server a login in system of some type and some other stuff i have lost the thread but it was pretty cool reading about it i am sure you will be able to find it again on here.
edit: Also seraching i found this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=777093
and this too http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=621320
Giant Speck
December 29th, 2008, 03:31 AM
You may also want to look into getting someone to make you a custom theme and wallpaper for your computers, so that the operating system reflects your company image.
Heck, you can make it a contest here on UF if you want!
Mason Whitaker
December 29th, 2008, 03:33 AM
You may also want to look into getting someone to make you a custom theme and wallpaper for your computers, so that the operating system reflects your company image.
Heck, you can make it a contest here on UF if you want!
That would be nice, but I think we'll only go as far as having our cafe's logo on it. Which we are still yet to come up with yet XD;
jacksaff
December 29th, 2008, 03:51 AM
I would have most machines being thin clients (either cheapie TCs or crap second hand boxes) running off of a server. Then have a few reasonably good boxes for the gamers running winXP and charge more to use them.
You could run a roomful of terminals off of a reasonable dual-core server as long as there is enough RAM and none of your users would be able to tell as long as they weren't trying to run 3D games.
If your crappy old hardware breaks/gets coffee in it/is nicked/etc then you won't really care. Rip all the hard drives and most fans out and you'll have a nice quiet room and lower power bill as well.
albinootje
December 29th, 2008, 04:12 AM
I would have most machines being thin clients (either cheapie TCs or crap second hand boxes) running off of a server. Then have a few reasonably good boxes for the gamers running winXP and charge more to use them.
You could run a roomful of terminals off of a reasonable dual-core server as long as there is enough RAM and none of your users would be able to tell as long as they weren't trying to run 3D games.
If your crappy old hardware breaks/gets coffee in it/is nicked/etc then you won't really care. Rip all the hard drives and most fans out and you'll have a nice quiet room and lower power bill as well.
Yes, and also have less software maintenance.
Or have these running off a usbstick :
http://www.linutop.com/linutop2/index.en.html
And attach them at the back of the flatscreen monitor.
These could be thin clients too.
BatsotO
December 29th, 2008, 05:07 AM
Ubuntu is fine for internet cafe, but you'll come accros some problems( I'm running internet cafe too, for 6 years, 3 on ubuntu).
1. Thin-client is good, for education, not for internet cafe business. What will you do if 10 of your thin client simultaniosly runing tabbed firefoxes, and at the same time editing with openoffices? you can try it on powerfull dual core thing, to see if it is working. I use an IBM xeon, I dont pretty remember the spec, to run about 10 client, yes the performance will drop, as with p4 1.8 gigs for six clients, slow at 3 customers, crash when full. Dont forget the clients will also metacity, gnome-panel, ah the list is long.
2. Most of linux messaging client if not all built for home user not for public. It will not directly give you username box and password box (like in yahoo messanger), instead they told you to creaate a local account before you login. I can have the record of my client ids and their contacts.
3. Kubuntu have kiosk mode, Ubuntu does not. The closest thing to kiosk mode in ubuntu is lockdown editor pessulus but is very limited and your client can open it, so it just like you lock the door but left the key in the keyhole.
Well thats all, if I tell you all my problems you might drop the plan :P
oh one more thing, opera doesn't have spell checker :D
handy
December 29th, 2008, 06:45 AM
There is at least one hardware device, a PCI card that you can install in a PC that will bring a machine back to the configuration that it holds on reboot, it prevents damage to the system from virus, malware & is great for cafe, school situations & kiosk situations.
I don't remember its name but I'm sure it would not take long to find on Scroogle.
kevdog
December 29th, 2008, 06:50 AM
Cant you just run something like a linksys wrt54gl and then activate the Chili Hotspot Module -- specifically designed for this purpose? Seems like the least amount of work to me and it would only cost you roughly the price of the linksys router since the dd-wrt firmware is free!!
MaxIBoy
December 29th, 2008, 07:46 AM
A perfect theme for your netcafé establishment (if you make good on the "café" part) would be this:
http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Coffee+and+Cream?content=92488
JT9161
December 29th, 2008, 08:28 AM
I would run either Debian or Ubuntu, But thats just what I have experience in.
The Debian wiki has a good guide for using Debian as a netboot: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianLive/Howto/Network_Image_Server
and here is a guide for Debian as a web kiosk: http://jadoba.net/kiosks/firefox/
as for hardware, you may have a Freegeek (http://freegeek.org/family.php) in your area that could provide cheap hardware, pre-loaded wit Linux.
yuli
December 29th, 2008, 10:10 AM
a gaming lounge with Windows XP or Vista
How is that a choice?
Of course XP: the hardware can address enough RAM to operate it.
seshomaru samma
December 29th, 2008, 10:36 AM
I would rename "firefox" to "internet" .
I would install aMSN
I would have several icons for popular IM programmes (like yahoo or AIM or whatever) all actually running pidgin
Also probably a good idea to rename Open Office to "Office" and even change the icon to MS Word icon, same with spreadsheet
Mason Whitaker
December 29th, 2008, 02:15 PM
How is that a choice?
Of course XP: the hardware can address enough RAM to operate it.
I know, I know
I was waiting for someone to mention that :P
I would rename "firefox" to "internet" .
I would install aMSN
I would have several icons for popular IM programmes (like yahoo or AIM or whatever) all actually running pidgin
Also probably a good idea to rename Open Office to "Office" and even change the icon to MS Word icon, same with spreadsheet
Well...Doing those things could bring up copyright issues. ( as far as changing the office icons )
I think people who would be willing to pay for the internet would be somewhat knowledgeable as far as programs, at least Firefox is somewhat common knowledge.
albinootje
December 29th, 2008, 04:14 PM
I would rename "firefox" to "internet" .
I would install aMSN
I would have several icons for popular IM programmes (like yahoo or AIM or whatever) all actually running pidgin
Also probably a good idea to rename Open Office to "Office" and even change the icon to MS Word icon, same with spreadsheet
With "solutions" like that, Linux will never be known by the masses ;-)
earthpigg
December 29th, 2008, 04:24 PM
you may have a Freegeek (http://freegeek.org/family.php) in your area that could provide cheap hardware, pre-loaded wit Linux.
thats a cool little organization. is it just in portland?
motang
December 29th, 2008, 04:51 PM
So my uncle is starting an internet cafe, and he wants me to help get it started and work there when completed. We've already decided to use computers running Linux, with the option for users to use Windows XP under a Virtualbox. My uncle has had experience in setting up Linux servers in the past, and at the moment works for a company called Hobsons directing their Oracle Servers.
Anywho, my question to the community is, what would be the ideal Linux to run under these circumstances?
I would have minimal compiz setting (no wobbly windows) but tranparency, zoom in and out, desktop wall, live alt tab preview, etc. I would also go with LTS and change the update to be updated with LTS only in Software Sources under Administrator (for stability).
I would keep the flash and media codecs up-to-date though.
Oh and run Windows 2000 or XP under VirtualBox if people want their "windows" fix. :p
blazercist
December 29th, 2008, 09:44 PM
As for gaming, you won't be able to do much hardcore gaming through a VM or wine/crossover/cedega... newer games wont run well if at all. Sure I play HL2: Source based games fine on wine in DX8 with no mic, but thats a set of limitations not everyone will be willing to deal with.
As far as thin clients, its a good thought but not very practical. You can't do 3d games and they will eat up the server RAM very quickly, firefox with a few tabs = 40-80MB in RAM, a pretty default install of Ubuntu eats about 200MB of RAM on start you can do the math and see very quickly you will need a very powerful machine to make this feasible. So unless you plan on asking your client's to stick to web browsing on those machines it doesnt make much sense, and even asking your clients to do XYZ will probably offend some customers.
Listen, if you are gonna buy the Windows licenses you should put them to use, you should prolly hack together a nice script on each box. Say a script that switches /boot/grub/menu.lst with a backup that has a different boot order and just turn the grub wait down to 0. Use the webmin GUI and ask your customer if they are gaming, if yes then switch the boot order in grub with a script from web administration and you're golden.
ajcham
December 29th, 2008, 09:53 PM
thats a cool little organization. is it just in portland?
Free Geek Arkansas (Fayetteville, Arkansas)
Free Geek Central Florida (Orlando, Florida)
Free Geek Chicago (Chicago, Illinois)
Free Geek Columbus (Columbus, Ohio)
Free Geek Michiana (Michigan/Indiana)
Free Geek Twin Cities (Minneapolis-Saint Paul, Minnesota)
Born Again Technologies (Tennessee)
Free Geek Vancouver (Vancouver, BC, Canada)
Tri-States Free Geek (Keokuk, IA)
Giant Speck
December 29th, 2008, 10:11 PM
Free Geek Arkansas (Fayetteville, Arkansas)
Free Geek Central Florida (Orlando, Florida)
Free Geek Chicago (Chicago, Illinois)
Free Geek Columbus (Columbus, Ohio)
Free Geek Michiana (Michigan/Indiana)
Free Geek Twin Cities (Minneapolis-Saint Paul, Minnesota)
Born Again Technologies (Tennessee)
Free Geek Vancouver (Vancouver, BC, Canada)
Tri-States Free Geek (Keokuk, IA)
Holy crap. Sweetness! I'm from Keokuk, Iowa!
And if I remember correctly, one of the founders of the Tri-States Free Geek was my eighth grade algebra teacher and my eleventh grade video productions teacher, Eric Brown.
waspbr
December 29th, 2008, 10:23 PM
depending on what kind of internet cafe you are trying so set up, it may be interesting to check out EEE boxes.
Also there are some really interesting option on the team76 website, that seem to be good value for money, you might want to check 'em out (http://system76.com/index.php?cPath=27), of course these are already linux friendly, so changing the distro around should not be too much of a problem.
though if you are looking to build a lan house kinda place, then well, you many need bigger guns.
Warpnow
December 29th, 2008, 10:38 PM
I would not reccomend using just Linux PCs for the reason mentioned above: Gaming. That's why most people I know who use internet cafes use them.
But, anyway, I'd buy some Hardware Recovery Cards, what they do is restore the hard drive to its original state every time you reboot them, which means you don't have to worry about ever messing them up, just reboot.
albinootje
December 29th, 2008, 11:17 PM
I would not reccomend using just Linux PCs for the reason mentioned above: Gaming. That's why most people I know who use internet cafes use them.
What's the problem with having the groundfloor have Linux computers for normal internet usage, and the first floor with MS-Windows computers (Or better : game consoles) for gamers ?
Most people I know need Internet Cafes because they're travelling, and need to check email, and work on some documents.
sharon.gmc
December 30th, 2008, 12:31 AM
I suggest you go with Fedora for your Uncle's internet cafe system. . . Good luck on your work and good luck on your uncle's new business.
seshomaru samma
December 30th, 2008, 12:53 AM
With "solutions" like that, Linux will never be known by the masses ;-)
I thought the idea was to open an internet cafe not to push linux...
Giant Speck
December 30th, 2008, 01:04 AM
I thought the idea was to open an internet cafe not to push linux...
He wants to give out install discs to people on their way out the door. Of course he probably wants to push Linux. Nothing wrong with that.
mamamia88
December 30th, 2008, 01:11 AM
great way to get people to try linux too i wonder how many people will be impressed then install it at home
seshomaru samma
December 30th, 2008, 01:33 AM
My other advice is to make sure Open Office saves all documents in MS office format by default. Again, this advice might not be popular with Linux purists but from a business point of view I think it's essential. Many people will just assume that there is something 'wrong' with the computers in the internet cafe if the documents they sent cannot be opened by their friends.
I have seen offices where people simply assumed some computers don't "have internet" because they couldn't find the blue IE icon, changing the firefox to "internet" and OpenOffice.org (or swriter or whatever) to "Word" (or Word Processor) helped them start using it. I bet that most people would assume that the computer just doesn't have MSN messenger if they can't see the icon. They will not try pidgin and even if they would , I suspect that 80% of non tech savvy people will give up on trying to log in to pidgin if they are used to MSN or Yahoo. They will not realise you can change the "protocol" to MSN , they will not understand the difference between Alias and Screen name and so on...
one more thing- have firefox save all downloads to the desktop , many people will not find their stuff in /home. Same with OO, save everything on desktop (assuming you are using Gnome, on XFCE the /desktop can be a problem for some users cause you cannot copy paste into it)
lswest
December 30th, 2008, 11:03 AM
Also, be sure to have small posters or info cards up with shortcuts (zooming in via compiz, or other possibly important features that have shortcuts) so that the user doesn't have to spend time to figure them out themselves (if they know the option even exists).
Just a thought.
BatsotO
December 30th, 2008, 01:51 PM
An alternative for recovery without any hardware card (reducing cost).
Make a small partition, just enough to put clonezilla or anything that have partimage, set it in your grub menu.
Make another partition just enough to hold backup image of your system.
Make an image of your system, and that's about it, anytime you need you can restore it.
And clonezilla clone harddrives fast enough, you don't plan to install on each of your HD didn't you?
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