PDA

View Full Version : Desktop managers are all the same



BGFG
December 25th, 2008, 03:41 AM
Aren't they ?

Thanks to another post on the forums, i took a look at some enlightenment based distros and what struck me was the touted revolutionary new interface that is basically the same line across the board.

Nothing against Enlightenment, KDE, Gnome or any other environment but there is nothing revolutionary about any of them. Do they work extremely well ? yes. They all behave differently and look different but all offer the exact same tools in slightly different formats and presentation.

I admit that some are glossier than others and have different items stuck around the desktop, but there are a multitude of tools to achieve the EXACT same look and feel no matter what your WM.

I haven't said all i'd like to say, and honestly i love all our WM's and their devs, but until we achieve a breakthrough in hardware and software that finally takes us away from the key input and selection devices that ALL proprietary and open source window and file managers are based on, then i see no revolution.

I think that will be achieved with AI. when we can simply sit at a screen and dictate spoken commands as our only mode of interface with our machine, then speak of revolution.

namegame
December 25th, 2008, 03:46 AM
I'd encourage you to try a Tiling WM, they break away from the typical normal experience.

Examples:

Xmonad
wmii
dmw
Ratpoison

It's a completely different experience than your typical DE's.

BGFG
December 25th, 2008, 03:48 AM
I'll check them out. thanks..:)

richg
December 25th, 2008, 03:55 AM
Ok, thanks, I guess.

Rich

MaxIBoy
December 25th, 2008, 04:39 AM
I'd never talk at a computer. That idea is very overrated.

Try an experiment: first say "pull up my home folder" aloud. Then, type "cd ~" or click a button on a panel. Which took more time?

smartboyathome
December 25th, 2008, 05:55 AM
Enlightenment isn't meant to be a revolutionary interface. What's revolutionary about it is how it acts more like a desktop shell in Windows than a Window Manager in Linux, as it uses modules to build stuff into it. Also, it gives you a very eye candied desktop that can be customized how you want, without all the bloat that stuff like Compiz provides.

If you want "revolutionary desktop", then check out stuff like 3DWM, even though you probably can't compile it anymore (if you can even find it ;P), it still is very revolutionary even today.

cb951303
December 25th, 2008, 07:15 AM
Enlightenment is the single most optimized piece of code I've ever seen :) The guy is crazy... that's why it takes him so long to release a stable tarball. he's a perfectionist. Maybe that's what revolutionary about it :P

wootah
December 25th, 2008, 07:25 AM
Enlightenment isn't meant to be a revolutionary interface. What's revolutionary about it is how it acts more like a desktop shell in Windows than a Window Manager in Linux, as it uses modules to build stuff into it. Also, it gives you a very eye candied desktop that can be customized how you want, without all the bloat that stuff like Compiz provides.

If you want "revolutionary desktop", then check out stuff like 3DWM, even though you probably can't compile it anymore (if you can even find it ;P), it still is very revolutionary even today.

Renamon ?

jrusso2
December 25th, 2008, 07:29 AM
I would not say its revolutionary but it certainly is different. Try Window Maker or After Step. Its so weird I could not get used to it.

Grant A.
December 25th, 2008, 08:50 AM
I wouldn't recommend a tiling WM for anything other than performance, they are horribly ugly, AFAIK.

I wish someone would port XFCE/KDE to Windows :(

-grubby
December 25th, 2008, 08:55 AM
To the guy that said tiling - I agree with you. I can _not_ go without tiling now.

BGFG
December 26th, 2008, 01:29 AM
I'd never talk at a computer. That idea is very overrated.

Try an experiment: first say "pull up my home folder" aloud. Then, type "cd ~" or click a button on a panel. Which took more time?

Overrated or not. Would still revolutionary, wouldn't you say ?



Originally Posted by smartboyathome
Enlightenment isn't meant to be a revolutionary interface. What's revolutionary about it is how it acts more like a desktop shell in Windows than a Window Manager in Linux, as it uses modules to build stuff into it. Also, it gives you a very eye candied desktop that can be customized how you want, without all the bloat that stuff like Compiz provides.

If you want "revolutionary desktop", then check out stuff like 3DWM, even though you probably can't compile it anymore (if you can even find it ;P), it still is very revolutionary even today.


From what you've said, i'd like to try enlightenment, but i hope you guys see what i'm getting at: They all offer the same thing and we interact with them via keyboard and mouse. No revolution yet :)
Hope i didn't offend, considering you're part of an elightenment distro :popcorn:

kevin11951
December 26th, 2008, 02:38 AM
I wish someone would port XFCE/KDE to Windows :(

http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KDE4+Windows+Port

EDIT: even better: http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KDE_on_Windows/Installation

smartboyathome
December 26th, 2008, 03:00 AM
By the way, for all of you who love tiling:

E17 just got a tiling module, so you can get that tiling goodness with the E17 eye candy you love. :KS


From what you've said, i'd like to try enlightenment, but i hope you guys see what i'm getting at: They all offer the same thing and we interact with them via keyboard and mouse. No revolution yet :)
Hope i didn't offend, considering you're part of an elightenment distro :popcorn:

Yeah, thats because it was a good idea and is more of a refined thing than something revolutionary. Like I said, take a look at 3DWM if you want something that was really revolutionary.

namegame
December 26th, 2008, 03:16 AM
I wouldn't recommend a tiling WM for anything other than performance, they are horribly ugly, AFAIK.

Ugly is HIGHLY subjective. Personally I feel that a well configured *box or tiling WM setup is beautiful in its simplicity (Example: http://tamilinux.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/2008-05-07-184753_1280x1024_scrot.png). For me Tiling WMs maximize my efficiency. I don't have to worry about all the shiny stuff getting in the way. What I need is there, no more, no less.


I don't do it for performance as my computer as 2 GB of RAM, a decent Video Card, Dual-Core processor, etc. I can run full-blown KDE+Compiz if I want, but for me it's pointless. My computer is a tool I use and my tools work best with a Tiling WM.


To the guy that said tiling - I agree with you. I can _not_ go without tiling now.

I'm currently trying to get the hang of AwesomeWM. It's pretty good. Honestly, I'm torn between Xmonad and AwesomeWM. :lolflag:

BGFG
December 26th, 2008, 05:41 AM
Yeah, thats because it was a good idea and is more of a refined thing than something revolutionary. Like I said, take a look at 3DWM if you want something that was really revolutionary.[/QUOTE]

Sad to see a promising project go defunct. 3DWM i mean.

Is E17 complete yet ? or do you still have to tweak it ? Or is the website simply not up to date ? When i visit enlightenment.org it gives the impression that E17 is still a work in progress.

Grant A.
December 26th, 2008, 06:04 AM
http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KDE4+Windows+Port

EDIT: even better: http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KDE_on_Windows/Installation

That only installs KDE apps, not the DE.

inxygnuu
December 26th, 2008, 06:09 AM
I wouldn't recommend a tiling WM for anything other than performance, they are horribly ugly, AFAIK.

I wish someone would port XFCE/KDE to Windows :(

Me too, but that is illegal.

@OP: Try arch, at first, no WM! (you have to put one in)

Grant A.
December 26th, 2008, 06:24 AM
Me too, but that is illegal.

@OP: Try arch, at first, no WM! (you have to put one in)

No it isn't, it is perfectly legal to kill explorer.exe and run another desktop shell over it. Plenty of projects do this, and they are perfectly legal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell_replacement

chucky chuckaluck
December 26th, 2008, 06:26 AM
i agree with the OP. i've used dwm a lot lately and, honestly, i really can't see any difference between it and something like kde4. makes me wonder why people bother coming up with different window managers at all.

Lightstar
December 26th, 2008, 06:45 AM
I wouldn't recommend a tiling WM for anything other than performance, they are horribly ugly, AFAIK.

I wish someone would port XFCE/KDE to Windows :(

+1, to both phrases.