The world has gone mad!

[mcmuffy]

I called into my local PC World today as I wanted to try out a few laptops for compatability with Breezy. This should not be too hard with the shiney new live disc that was sent to me in the post by Ubuntu. Wrong.
The guy that worked the laptop section would not let me use the disc as I was not allowed to install anything on the pc's. Fair enough but I explained how live discs work and nothing would be installed. No joy.
I asked him why I could not use the disc since nothing was installed to which I was told it was to avoid and copywrite issues! At this point I think he took offence at my burst of laughter.
The outcome was that I could test a machine to see if it worked to my liking as long as I bought it first BUT since no cd's come with the machine (a restore image is on a partition of the HDD) if I removed windows and repartitioned the machines warranty would be voided. Since when did the warranty of a piece of hardware have anything to do with what OS was installed on the HDD or did I miss a memo?
In the end I left without a laptop but I did leave several Ubuntu discs around the store :D

[sapo]

Isnt the world that has gone mad.. is just you that have gone to a n00b store

[mcmuffy]

LOL. I know I should have known better but its the only place I know where you can actually use (via windows) a piece of hardware before you buy it.

[towsonu2003]

The outcome was that I could test a machine to see if it worked to my liking as long as I bought it first BUT since no cd's come with the machine (a restore image is on a partition of the HDD) if I removed windows and repartitioned the machines warranty would be voided. Since when did the warranty of a piece of hardware have anything to do with what OS was installed on the HDD or did I miss a memo?

This is interesting... Suppose you bought the laptop with the promise that you WILL use Windows inside. But when you booted your laptop, and read the EULA, you decided it was too restrictive and you clicked "decline". What do you do now? Do you return the laptop to Microsoft for OS refund??? Interesting stuff...

[xequence]

What do you do now? Do you return the laptop to Microsoft for OS refund??? Interesting stuff...


Dude, I have to try that when I get my computer =D

[Arktis]

Yes, the world has gone mad. This is but one of the many symptoms. I congratulate you for not falling victim to the infectious mental dissorder crippling the world's population. I call it "rampant ignorance".

[Orporg]

Good God, it really hoses your warranty if you just decide to repartition the hard drive? Even if you don't want to use Linux, you may want to do a clean install of Windows or something else. And that locks off a portion of hard drive space you could use for other stuff?

I've read that IBM laptops were doing this but I didn't think it was this widespread.... thank Christ my laptop (for now) is a Mac.

[prizrak]

Good God, it really hoses your warranty if you just decide to repartition the hard drive? Even if you don't want to use Linux, you may want to do a clean install of Windows or something else. And that locks off a portion of hard drive space you could use for other stuff?

I've read that IBM laptops were doing this but I didn't think it was this widespread.... thank Christ my laptop (for now) is a Mac.
Dell does it as well, I think IBM offers no OS laptops now.

OP when surfing round the net I found this company www.emperorlinux.com they sell laptops with Ubuntu preinstalled :)

[welsh_spud]

I don't think you can ask for a refund on Windows if it's installed on your computer when you buy it.

I tried that last year in the electronic store called 'Currys' (I dont know if you guys in the US have that branch of stores...). They said they couldn't offer a refund on Windows as it was included for free.

Sure....whatever you say!

[Wolki]

I don't think you can ask for a refund on Windows if it's installed on your computer when you buy it.


This guy did it:

http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html

Fun read. :)

[sapo]

This guy did it:

http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html

Fun read. :)
Nice, at least here in brazil is the oposite, its easier to buy a computer without any OS, they dont install linux on it, but they ALL now that 99% are gonna install windows by themselves, so they just sell it without anything to make it cheaper :)

[MetalMusicAddict]

I have 2 Dells with Ubuntu on them and Dell was fine with it. I get hardware support just fine but a software problem they dont do.

[MetalMusicAddict]

This guy did it:

http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html

Fun read. :)
I wonder if this could be applied today in the US? If I had seen this when I bought my Dells I would have done the same thing.

Anyone know where there is a current MS EULA?

[kairu0]

They said they couldn't offer a refund on Windows as it was included for free.

BREAKING NEWS! Microsoft is now supplying Windows to OEMs as part of a worldwide CHARITY effort!

[Stormy Eyes]

Since when did the warranty of a piece of hardware have anything to do with what OS was installed on the HDD or did I miss a memo?

It's simple: if you alter the machine from its stock settings, they won't give you any support. Unless you settle for the default config, you're on your own.

[prizrak]

I didn't say Dell wouldn't offer support, I was saying that Dell has a restore partition on the HDD (it doesn't actually have the restore stuff on it, I think it just identifies the machine as Dell for the restore CD)

[Orporg]

Ugh. Before I started putting my own desktops together I used to have to do all sorts of trimming with ready made machines. The computer maker would always supply a shitload of useless software that ate up memory, CPU time, and video power. And its usually for crappy multimedia stuff I don't want. Half the time I found it easier to just install a fresh copy of DOS or Windows and download what drivers I needed myself.

The idea that I couldn't do that with a laptop just burns me.

[prizrak]

Ugh. Before I started putting my own desktops together I used to have to do all sorts of trimming with ready made machines. The computer maker would always supply a shitload of useless software that ate up memory, CPU time, and video power. And its usually for crappy multimedia stuff I don't want. Half the time I found it easier to just install a fresh copy of DOS or Windows and download what drivers I needed myself.

The idea that I couldn't do that with a laptop just burns me.
You can still do it with a laptop I did it, you will have to get another Windows install disk though, I got lucked out with mine my father's company gives him a site license for up to five machines.

[jeremy]

They said they couldn't offer a refund on Windows as it was included for free.
I think you should write to M$ and tell them that Currys are giving windows away, they don't like being pirated!

[kairu0]

The computer maker would always supply a shitload of useless software that ate up memory, CPU time, and video power. And its usually for crappy multimedia stuff I don't want.

When I bought my Sony Vaio this August, I couldn't have used it as is even if I were content with Windows! There was so much **** on there that it took 4 or 5 minutes and 15 clicks through "Register x" dialog boxes on evey reboot that I did us both a favor and installed Ubuntu.

[mcmuffy]

I did myself a favour and bought a nice Dell widescreen monitor instead :D

[M3ta7h3ad]

I called into my local PC World today as I wanted to try out a few laptops for compatability with Breezy. This should not be too hard with the shiney new live disc that was sent to me in the post by Ubuntu. Wrong.
The guy that worked the laptop section would not let me use the disc as I was not allowed to install anything on the pc's. Fair enough but I explained how live discs work and nothing would be installed. No joy.
I asked him why I could not use the disc since nothing was installed to which I was told it was to avoid and copywrite issues! At this point I think he took offence at my burst of laughter.
The outcome was that I could test a machine to see if it worked to my liking as long as I bought it first BUT since no cd's come with the machine (a restore image is on a partition of the HDD) if I removed windows and repartitioned the machines warranty would be voided. Since when did the warranty of a piece of hardware have anything to do with what OS was installed on the HDD or did I miss a memo?
In the end I left without a laptop but I did leave several Ubuntu discs around the store :D

Regarding the warranty.

I got told the same when I called packard bell support regarding a problem. I mentioned that I had changed the partitions on my system and BANG.. instant "im sorry sir, but you have voided your warranty by doing that."

Naturally it led to a heated discussion.

Finally the supervisor on the end of the line (I had to ask to speak to them as the one I was speaking to was a complete idiot), said that...

"By installing software and modifying the installation of your computer system you've voided any warranty you have with us"

"So.. if I saved a text file using notepad, which is part of what you provided... I've voided my warranty"

resulted in a long silence and a "nooooooooo, obviously not"

had them back pedalling their crap faster than ever then once I had them on the retreat it was easy to see that they were talking rubbish!.

Your warranty is on the software provided, and the hardware provided. If you are not using that software then obviously you cant be helped.. but if a problem occurs due to their software then you are covered. It doesnt void your warranty.. it just means you cant call them up saying "I need to use super user access on my computer"

As for the "not being able to test" pc's... Its doubtful the laptop would be set up for cd-rom booting, the local curry's by me learnt that to their demise back when I was a 16yr old trouble maker. Quick run in with a floppy containing dos, and quick basic.

Had all the machines in the building beeping and printing expletives on the screens repetatively. :D Rather humourous for me :D

[Malphas]

This guy did it:

http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html

Fun read. :)
If more people do this next time they buy a computer, retailers may actually seriously consider offering systems without Windows pre-installed to avoid the hassle and cost.

[endersshadow]

I wonder if this could be applied today in the US? If I had seen this when I bought my Dells I would have done the same thing.

Anyone know where there is a current MS EULA?

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/eula.mspx

First paragraph of the EULA--the clause still exists :-D

[krusbjorn]

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/eula.mspx

First paragraph of the EULA--the clause still exists :-D

But they added a , "IF APPLICABLE." in the WinXp Home EULA.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/eula.mspx

That sucks :P

[prizrak]

If more people do this next time they buy a computer, retailers may actually seriously consider offering systems without Windows pre-installed to avoid the hassle and cost.
There was a really big thing about it some time ago, alot of Linux users were trying to exercize the right given by the EULA clause and were generally given the run around. So it didn't really do anything. One good way to escape the OEM installs is getting machines from smaller retailers. I found an online store based out of New York State that sells ASUS laptops with a no-OS option. I think the reason they can do that is ASUS offers barebone systems so they just build them right there and they don't have an OEM agreement with MS cine a license for XP was in the retail range (OEM Windows is usually pretty cheap).

[windowsrefund]

http://windowsrefund.info

I am looking for people to get involved with the OEM/Microsoft Tax Survey. Please let me know if you are interested.

Best,

Adam Kosmin

[YourSurrogateGod]

I called into my local PC World today as I wanted to try out a few laptops for compatability with Breezy. This should not be too hard with the shiney new live disc that was sent to me in the post by Ubuntu. Wrong.
The guy that worked the laptop section would not let me use the disc as I was not allowed to install anything on the pc's. Fair enough but I explained how live discs work and nothing would be installed. No joy.
I asked him why I could not use the disc since nothing was installed to which I was told it was to avoid and copywrite issues! At this point I think he took offence at my burst of laughter.
The outcome was that I could test a machine to see if it worked to my liking as long as I bought it first BUT since no cd's come with the machine (a restore image is on a partition of the HDD) if I removed windows and repartitioned the machines warranty would be voided. Since when did the warranty of a piece of hardware have anything to do with what OS was installed on the HDD or did I miss a memo?
In the end I left without a laptop but I did leave several Ubuntu discs around the store :D
That's when you need to tell them that you'll buy a machine from one of their competitors unless you get a chance to mess with it. If they're smart, they'll buckle and let you play around...

[aysiu]

I wouldn't ask permission.
I know a live CD doesn't damage the computer.
If I wanted to know how well it worked on a PC for sale, I'd just waltz in the store, pop my live CD in and reboot.

[ubuntu27]

If more people do this next time they buy a computer, retailers may actually seriously consider offering systems without Windows pre-installed to avoid the hassle and cost.

Yeah we should all do that :D

[YourSurrogateGod]

I wouldn't ask permission.
I know a live CD doesn't damage the computer.
If I wanted to know how well it worked on a PC for sale, I'd just waltz in the store, pop my live CD in and reboot.
Something tells me that you'll get banned from the store ;) .

[kairu0]

Anyone else ever had one of those "a lot of talking but not a lot of listening" conversations about add-ons at the time of purchase?

For example, you say that you will buy the damn thing and they tell you that you absolutely need to buy Norton Antivirus, too! You say, "I'm going to run linux," and then the next profound sales pitch: You're going to need an extra warranty service package for those times when you can't figure Windows out! You say again, "I'm gonna run Windows." The salesman goes on to the next question...

For me, it's appalling that I have to buy Windows in the first place, let alone pay extra for software that won't work after I delete it.

Give me a "HELL YES!" (stern preacher face)

[YourSurrogateGod]

Anyone else ever had one of those "a lot of talking but not a lot of listening" conversations about add-ons at the time of purchase?

For example, you say that you will buy the damn thing and they tell you that you absolutely need to buy Norton Antivirus, too! You say, "I'm going to run linux," and then the next profound sales pitch: You're going to need an extra warranty service package for those times when you can't figure Windows out! You say again, "I'm gonna run Linux". The salesman goes on to the next question...
Fixed it for you.

For me, it's appalling that I have to buy Windows in the first place, let alone pay extra for software that won't work after I delete it.
I know that some companies offer machines without an OS, I guess you could try to custom order it or something...

[Zimmer]

I think you will all enjoy reading this. I know I did..:D
This guy got his money from the company that sold him the computer..(XP in 2003)
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040

These guys tried to get it out of MS (W98 in 1999)

http://www.svlug.org/events/refund/

and for those who can't sleep...
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9901/25/winrefund.idg/

Zzzzzzzzimmer :D

[YourSurrogateGod]

I think you will all enjoy reading this. I know I did..:D
This guy got his money from the company that sold him the computer..(XP in 2003)
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040

These guys tried to get it out of MS (W98 in 1999)

http://www.svlug.org/events/refund/

and for those who can't sleep...
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9901/25/winrefund.idg/

Zzzzzzzzimmer :D
This is excellent, good catch :) .

[YourSurrogateGod]

This is excellent, good catch :) .
I wonder if I can do the same thing to a mac.

[Zimmer]

I wonder if I can do the same thing to a mac.

No, you take that back to Burton's and ask for an Anorak ;)

Zimmer (ROFL at own joke......sad...)


****NOTE******
For our transatlantic cousins..who do not have an up to date comedy translation chip....
.mac - a raincoat, abbreviated form of Mackintosh.

Anorak - a kind of heavy jacket, and also a perjorative term for geeks of all types, usually train spotters in the UK, who, guess what, are usually found wearing ANORAKs...

Have a good day Y'all...

[YourSurrogateGod]

No, you take that back to Burton's and ask for an Anorak ;)

Zimmer (ROFL at own joke......sad...)
Heh?

[mcmuffy]

I think that lost something in the English to American translation :D

[Goddess_of_Linux]

Hay or they say that you need to buy this warranty that will last for 6-8 years and don't tell you that if you open the case for any reason and install a newer graphics card or a new hard drive or even spring cleaning. You will void your warranty with the store and the manufacturer. The only store that actually told me all that was CircuitCity and they specifically said that as long as you take those parts that you installed off (namely the second hard drive and the PCI and AGP cards) you will still have a warranty. So I shop CircuitCity for almost any hardware I need. But I don't always get there warranty.

[BLTicklemonster]

So, ah, what's up with if you buy a machine with windows on it, and they don't give you a disc with windows on it? I heard once that since you were purchasing windows, you had the right to ask for a disc, not a restore disc, but an honest to God windows disc. Of course I've tried this a time or two, but the sales people all look at me like I'm daft. Having been married twice, I'm used to it, of course...

[aysiu]

I prefer the restore disks.

God forbid I should have to reinstall Windows from scratch and have to hunt down all the drivers and utilities (that happened when I tried to reinstall Windows on my Dell laptop and had lost the drivers CD and the InterVideo WinDVD CD).

[mstlyevil]

I prefer the restore disks.

God forbid I should have to reinstall Windows from scratch and have to hunt down all the drivers and utilities (that happened when I tried to reinstall Windows on my Dell laptop and had lost the drivers CD and the InterVideo WinDVD CD).

There is a way to turn that restore partition into a restore disk. If I am not mistaken, they have an how to on it at pcstats.com.

EDIT

I found a link to a web site that tells you how to make a reinstall disk from a restore partition.
http://www.easydesksoftware.com/recovery.htm

[kleeman]

Why not exercise freedom of choice here? There are plenty of excellent small businesses selling linux preinstalled laptops at reasonable prices. It makes sense to support them. I just bought one from here:

http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html

and it's a little ripper (Warning: Australian slang).

[Lord Illidan]

At school, I am not allowed to install Kubuntu on one of our newer pcs because installing a new os will invalidate Dell's warranty...hah!
Just a simple partitioning.....what the hell is wrong with these people!

[irv]

I got around this problem this past year. I bought a no-name laptop with no OS. It had all the specs I was looking for and I could load anything I wanted on it without voiding the warrnity on it. (Of course I bought it from my son who runs the local computer store in town who got the store from me). This helped.