Need help picking out notebook for college

[reidms]

Entering my last semester of HS, I need to find a notebook for college. I really have no notebook use experience and want to make sure that I get something that I will be useful for a CS/CE major.

-Majoring in CS/CE
-No notebook experience
-Will have dual boot with Solaris/Ubuntu and win
-Need something to support a moderate amount of gaming and entertainment (academic and leisure programming first)

It boils down to:
Lenovo IdeaPad Y730

Intel® Core™ 2 Extreme X9100 3.06GHz
ATI Mobility Radeon 3650 512MB
4GB ram
5400RPM drive (stuck with it)

vs.

Sony Vaio AW

Intel Core 2 Duo T9600 2.80GHz
NVIDIA 512MB
8GB ram (overkill I know :P)
7200RPM drive

As well as comparing the specs of the systems; how well do they hold up? I have heard stories of Vaios collapsing about a year after purchase and the keyboard being hard to type on. Is there anything I should know about Lenovo? Any other brands I should consider?

And a final question, as this situation arises every time I buy something nice, are their any new notebooks/notebook hardware, that you know of, that is coming out soon that I should wait for?

Thanks for your time,
Reid

[mips]

Go with Thinkpad/Ideapad, you might want to look for a nvidia based model. Excellent Linux support., built like tanks & reliable.

Stay away from Sony. Not so great linux support, bad customer service and the principal of not supporting them due to past actions.

[upapilot]

I say go for the ThinkPad....My father has had one for 3 years now and its still fine......besides the 8 GB memory in Sony is pretty useless and the processor is slower:p

[MikeTheC]

Having worked at Sony's Customer Information Service Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_CISC) for five years, I think I can claim to be just a bit of an expert on this.

The first thing you have to understand is that IBM/Lenovo sell "computers", first and foremost. Sony, on the other hand, sells business and entertainment "solutions". This difference in focus is nevermore evident than in their policies, procedures, and practices.

I would strongly encourage you to "support" the companies which support the causes and OS platforms which you are interested in. Besides, IBM/Lenovo laptop products have a reputation for being a fairly rugged "road-warrior" type portable.

Good luck!

[reidms]

I would strongly encourage you to "support" the companies which support the causes and OS platforms which you are interested in.

First reason I looked at Lenovo because IBM is still kicking with AIX hehe

[bryonak]

In case it hasn't been reiterated often enough: go with Lenovo ;)
They are very robust (carbon fibre with magnesium) and have the best laptop keyboards available.


Another thing... the Y730 is 17'' isn't it?
If you're going to carry it with you in class (which you probably will in CS), this is waaay too big and heavy.

I'm in my second year at university now and I already regret buying a 15''. At the moment, my unmatched favourite is the X301 (13'', extremely light and thin)... if it weren't for the hefty price tag...

[reidms]

Another thing... the Y730 is 17'' isn't it?
If you're going to carry it with you in class (which you probably will in CS), this is waaay too big and heavy.

Yep- But what I am really aiming for is pretty much a mobile desktop :P I do not mind sacrificing lightness and size for power

But good perspective to bring up- Have not though about that

[theApokalypsis]

Definitly go with the Lenovo book. ATI accelerated video support is just around the Corner. I prefer them over Nvidia, although Nvidia does have good support, but shotty 2D performance, ex viewing heavy visual JS web applications.

AMD fan always, but the Extreme will pwn. dont need more than 4GB RAM. HD not a BIG deal, if you ever get into it you could possibly throw a SSD in there as replacement.

Also i do enjoy ATI mopping the floor with Nvidia with their R7xx chips.

[Majorix]

Get the IdeaPad. For a long time, you won't be using all the additional RAM the Vaio offers you.

[bryonak]

Yep- But what I am really aiming for is pretty much a mobile desktop :P I do not mind sacrificing lightness and size for power


Since you say yourself that you don't have much experience with laptops, I hope that you will allow me to educate you a bit... I've been discussing this a lot with my friends and we've given this advice to quite a few new students who look for a new laptop.

For students, the most important things are weight and battery life. I use it during lectures to take notes, so it has to last at least 4 hours (so I can recharge it / swap the battery over lunchtime). You'll be carrying it with you all the time, hence it does make a difference whether it's 3 or 8 pounds.

The second things to look at are size and display properties.
For example a MacbookPro is half as thick as HP's business models and therefore more convenient to store in your backpack.
As for the display, today LED backlight is a must have. It enables you to work in sunshine and awkward lighting configurations and saves you some battery juice. Additionaly, now that's my personal opinion, glossy displays are a big NO NO.
Also the smaller the whole thing, the more convenient is the storage and handling. Then again bigger gives you a bigger display and keyboard. For most people, the sweet middle spot is 14'' - 15''.

Third comes the horsepower and case/MB. Why is the CPU speed third? Because any laptop with a Core2Duo will fulfill your performance needs. Virtually all (sounds bold, but it's true) desktop user don't even need two CPUs (there aren't really that many multithreading applications, and with the Linux kernel scheduler, multitasking performance with two cores increases only marginally). Those who do need it are architecture students and some types of engineers who have got huge amounts of CAD work to do. CS folks don't (I'm living together with a CS student - a MacbookPro is almost overkill for his needs). Except if you're into gaming, but that's another story...
With "case/MB" I mean stability, what it has to offer in terms of ports and interfaces and heat dissipation. The interfaces should obviously be such that they fulfill your needs (say if you have a bluetooth mouse, or need a card reader...). The stability aspect depends on how nicely you handle your laptop, but more robust is usually better (-> Lenovo's stuff).


Another point which varies in importance from one person to another is the price... this one you will have to decide for yourself.


Again about the CPU: honestly a Core2Extreme is a waste of money. Unless your hobby is doing benchmarks or looking at the FPS rating in games, you won't notice much of a difference to a regular Core2Duo. Booting 1.5 seconds faster or compiling that program in 2.25 instead of 2.45 seconds really isn't worth the money, battery life and the heat that this thing produces.

I hope that wasn't too patronizing now ;)

[reidms]

I use it during lectures to take notes, so it has to last at least 4 hours (so I can recharge it / swap the battery over lunchtime).

Excellent write up bryonak (and to all others who have been posting; this is why I love this community)

That is a concern right there; having a really nice notebook but being anxious all the time wondering if it will make it through the class would drive me crazy- especially if I had back to back classes!


Hmm, I am still interested in that IdeaPad but I will check out the power situation with it

[CrazyDesi]

Go with the Thinkpad. I recently got a Sony and hate it with a deep passion. The computer already has had battery problems and I have called Customer support at least 9 times. If I can talk one person out of a Sony, I have done my job.

[MikeTheC]

@ bryonak:

I can't speak for reidms, but I found your post insightful and interesting. Even though I have plenty of experience with laptops myself, you do raise some very valid points.

Now, even though it's a bit beyond the scope of the OP's interests and questions, I would like to add a couple things about the Apple MacBook/MacBook Pro units.


Unibody Construction

This is actually a very good thing, and allows the units to be more mechanically durable, yet lighter-weight. Moreover, these cases are manufactured in an America-based plant in California, something which stands in stark contrast to pretty much everything else being strictly imported from foreign countries. (I know that probably borders on "political discussion" and I don't mean to stir up any controversy. It's just that, especially in these hard economic times, it's nice to know there are new jobs being created in America, somewhere...)


LED-lit Screens

Definitely a boon to any LCD panel user, but especially so to laptop users, for whom (by definition) power is everything. Moreover, you get a brighter, more vibrant, and more consistent illumination of the panel, which is generally good news to most people.


ExpressCard vs. PC/MCIA vs. Nothing At All

This is really a mixed-bag topic at best. On the one hand, ExpressCard is definitely better than PC/MCIA (a.k.a. "PC-Card"), technologically. On the other hand, no card slot interface is present on the MacBook (consumer) line, so you have to spend almost another $1000 to get it. And that's obviously kind of silly, considering most of what card-slot technology was used for has all been superseded with other interfaces since the introduction of FireWire 400 and USB 1.1 on laptops some ten years ago. Ok, so if you do pop for the extra $1000 laptop from Apple, now you're getting a unit with ExpressCard, and if you already have, say, a PowerBook or some other PC-Card-equipped system, you have to give up what (typically) media-reader abilities you already have. Considering that's about all I have seen people use the technology for (excepting for modems or perhaps WiFi adapters), it somehow just seems like a waste.


Speaking of Media Readers

Apple has tried to cultivate a reputation as being multimedia-friendly (a reputation not undeserved, especially "back in the day") yet they refuse, purely on aesthetic grounds (so far as I can tell) to incorporate any media readers in the computer products (laptop, desktop, AIO, etc.) This is certainly not a mission-critical thing, but it is a downside, especially considering their price point.


FireWire today, Gone Tomorrow

Perhaps this might seem silly to PC users who have mostly standardized on USB 1.1 or USB 2.0 devices over the years, but the inclusion of FireWire on an Apple laptop is something which really set it apart from most others, and helped take us down the road of having a decent portable video editing system. Now, Apple is in the slow and steady process of killing FireWire on their platform, yet charging no less for it's absence. Now, mind you, I'm a long-term Mac user (since 1986!) but darn it, if you're going to take something away from me, I shouldn't have to keep paying for it!


Mouse and Keyboard

Perhaps for many "typical" Mac users, a single mouse button (yes, I know there's OS support for multi-buttons, scroll wheel, etc.; and yes, I know the new models support multi-touch on the touchpads, but *how* long did it take them to finally over-engineer their way into accepting this industry-standard concept?) is acceptable, and perhaps the keyboard as well, but the moment you put either Linux or Windows on a MacBook (any of them), it becomes a disadvantage. Programmers kind of hate the keyboard because it lacks what, from their point of view, are standard keys. One programmer I know (my friend from High School who introduced me to Linux in the first place) had bought a 17" MacBook Pro, only to sell it about six months later because he just couldn't deal with the keyboard any longer. He said he bought the thing because, at the time, it met other design specs he was interested in, but that, in hindsight, had he fully understood the keyboard layout issues, that alone would have stopped him from ever buying it in the first place.

[Vadi]

http://system76.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=89

[bryonak]

The Gazelle looks very nice, especially the price point. My only beef would be the glossy display. Also note the integrated graphics, which may not be what reidms is looking for... though it's enough for watching HD DVDs and even playing rather modern games at moderate settings.

@MikeTheC
I own a MacbookPro myself, mainly because at that time it was the only laptop with LED backlight available here... and your friend is right about the keyboard!
My solution is to get used to it, though I sometimes get confused when switching keyboards.
Another thing... are you sure about the Macs being manufactured in California? All my Apple hardware has "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in Taiwan" (or China... or Japan, where they make the power supplies) on it. Well, that still keeps some designer jobs in America. Not that I care too much, I'm not from the US anyway ;).

@reidms
Have you thought about Lenovo's ThinkPad series? (http://shop.lenovo.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/). They are targeted at more "serious" users and are the very reason Lenovo/IBM have such a good reputation, especially in the business and professional IT worlds. The single drawback is the higher "price class", though it's worth it IMO.
I've been installing Linux on a X301 a few weeks ago, and I pretty much fell in love with that little beast. You know, 3 pounds weight, 6 hours battery life, awesome keyboard, SSD drive... if it weren't for the 2600.- (and the fact that I don't need a new laptop right now)...

[daynah]

About the size...

I saw you say that you wanted a mobile desktop and I'm going to implore you to think again. I have two laptops, a 13" and a 7" (eee). This is all after the death of a 15".

I consistantly felt like my 15" was a pain to lug around. It in itself is not a pain, it never was heavy or anything, but there were those pesky text books, too, remember.

Whether it's my 13" (actually fairly powerful, an Asus W7S) or my eee, I am constantly getting told by people, super gamer men and little sorority girls, that they wished they had a smaller computer because they hate lugging it around to class.

I think it's very important to think about what you're going to be doing with your computer most of the time... and really, a good chunk of this time, you've going to be carrying this thing on your shoulder(s). I had to go to the ER just this semester due to hip bursitis from incorrect posture from heavy loads (worst pain of my life).

I really, strongly, suggest you think about it. There are easy ways for you to wirelessly connect the two computers so that having a powerful computer and a less powerful (but still pretty powerful) 13" is enjoyable.

I personally recommend a 13". Anything smaller and the keyboard starts shrinking and some people don't like that. Also, though I love my eee, I'm assuming you're looking to game at least some on your own, and in a 13" you can get power that you can't out of a 12" (at least when I was last shopping). I have no idea why that one inch makes such a difference.

[reidms]

Hmm well now that I have the brand selected (The Gazelle's integrated graphics was a turn off for me :/), it has come down to the size debate upon first hand experience advice.

Depending on if I have a place to put it in the dorm, I might be bringing my Mac(core 2 duo) with me.

So I guess it would not be too bad if I were to choose a smaller and lighter notebook.

However that IdeaPad still catches my eye.

As a off-topic note; how would an eee perform in a classroom?

[daynah]

I like my eee. The only thing I don't like about it is how much attention it garners me (though some people might like that). I appreciate it in the classroom because I look like I'm participating in the class (I don't have that "wall" of a screen separating me from the teacher). Also, in a book bag the eee has a plus of being a solid state drive so when you bash your bag into the door, (or drop it from 4 feet off the ground while playing WoW) you're fine.

On the other hand, though I can still type fairly quickly on the eee (around 80wpm), it's not as fast as I normally can, so when I'm writing a lot of notes in a fast paced class, I would rather have a normal keyboard.

WoW is about as intense of a game you can play on the eee.

Finding your "size" is really personal. I thought 15" was too much, and some guys I know agree with me. Other guys I know feel that having a smaller laptop looks "girlie" and they don't want anything smaller than 15", 15" being the smallest they can get and not look girlie because it's the standard size. I'd go into your local store and piddle around on some of the sizes and see how they feel on you, in your lap, in your book bag (ask first...).

[Changturkey]

Thinkpad..+1

[gn2]

As a off-topic note; how would an eee perform in a classroom?

If it's an Eee 901, it would run silently and all day.
When you get home, connect it to an external monitor, keyboard, mouse and external hard drive and you'll be sorted for a desktop too.

I have an Asus F9E which is a 12" screen Core 2 Duo, I personally wouldn't consider anything bigger for a daily use portable device.

[reidms]

I think I am about to purchase the IdeaPad Y730;

Thanks for all the input, it helped a lot!

It is big and heavy, but if it causes too much of a problem, I might pick up a small eee for a graduation gift to go with it.

I will post back when I get it to do a short review.

Thanks all!