Does it annoy you beyond belief when people say they cannot use a computer?

[kaldor]

How much does it bother you when people complain about being unable to use a computer? Some people, especially older people I know, are totally illiterate just because they tell themselves that. Whenever my uncle needs help with the computer, I always end up doing it for him.

Him: "I'm too much of an old fart to be at that, I might blow up the computer."
Me: "Alright." *open My Pictures*
Him: Ah! Thank you!


My point being is.. why do people treat computers as such a daunting task? People can fix cars, set up a DVD player, program an alarm clock, but when it comes to a simple click on an icon... that is soooo out of the question!

Best be careful. Your PC might explode when you reply to this topic!

[billgoldberg]

How much does it bother you when people complain about being unable to use a computer? Some people, especially older people I know, are totally illiterate just because they tell themselves that. Whenever my uncle needs help with the computer, I always end up doing it for him.

Him: "I'm too much of an old fart to be at that, I might blow up the computer."
Me: "Alright." *open My Pictures*
Him: Ah! Thank you!


My point being is.. why do people treat computers as such a daunting task? People can fix cars, set up a DVD player, program an alarm clock, but when it comes to a simple click on an icon... that is soooo out of the question!

Best be careful. Your PC might explode when you reply to this topic!

If you didn't grew up in the last 20 years, you most likely never came into contact with computers when you were young.

Now everyone can (sort of) use a computer.

But I'm sure your uncle feels the same when he needs to help you do xxx (fill in a skill he takes for granted).

[kaldor]

It isn't the fact they cannot use them, it is the fact that smart people who can do so much think they can't.

[billgoldberg]

It isn't the fact they cannot use them, it is the fact that smart people who can do so much think they can't.

It's true, it's pretty easy to learn.

After all, it's mostly point-and-click.

Some people aren't open to learn new stuff.

[gn2]

How much does it bother you when people complain about being unable to use a computer?

Doesn't bother me in the least.

Plenty people can't fly a plane, ride a motorbike or drive a car and that doesn't bother me either.

[kaldor]

Doesn't bother me in the least.

Plenty people can't fly a plane, ride a motorbike or drive a car and that doesn't bother me either.

Yes, but you don't often see someone buy a plane and then be too scared to use it =Þ

My uncle recently bought a desktop PC for about 2000 dollars. He always asks me or my dad for help with almost everything. He says it is too technical for him to understand. Half the time he just wants us to come up so we can fix his "virus" or "glitch". It ends up being a Cancel or Allow dialog. We try to tell him it isn't so hard and that he can figure it out, but he seems to think otherwise.

I have had to help him out with such silly things. I have had to open folders for him, open Internet Explorer for him, open Microsoft word for him, etc. He learns, but then soon slips back to his "too technical!" mindset.

[Bear Knuckle]

Sure, it's mostly just point and click, but the result so much depends on the context. A click on a desktop icon has a total different result from a click on a hypertext link, which differs completely from a click on a title in iTunes, and so on.

Using a PC is an absolutely hard task, if you are not trained in it, since you can easily get the feeling, "it is doing something unforseen and what it wants".

To learn how to read "the context" is far from being trivial and it is the trick in how to use a computer.

In my experience using a PC has a lot to do with intuition and creativity and not everybody has the will and energy to "learn" how to use a computer. Their cognitive skills are good enough to repeat actions, but not to abstract from those actions, create a "usage pattern" and use it in future actions to get the intended result.

For someone, who got this idea, it's "easy" (like the original poster), but it's a hard task for someone who is not able to reach this level of abstraction. Don't be so arrogant and try to be a better teacher. Telling them to "click here and there" won't help, because they will just try to remember those steps, and if they forget one, the chain is broken. And teaching them abstraction is a hard task, which you can try.

[kaldor]

..Don't be so arrogant and try to be a better teacher. Telling them to "click here and there" won't help, because they will just try to remember those steps, and if they forget one, the chain is broken. And teaching them abstraction is a hard task, which you can try.

I am not arrogant when dealing with this sort of thing, I am sorry if I sounded this way. I do try to teach him how to use a computer. I tell him what the differences are between things, what things are, compare to realistic circumstances (You are on your desktop, you have a few folders to organize your documents in)

He tries to learn, but he blocks himself from it. Like I have said before, it is not the fact they cannot use one. It is the fact that they tell themselves that they cannot, no matter how simple it is.

[Bear Knuckle]

He tries to learn, but he blocks himself from it. Like I have said before, it is not the fact they cannot use one. It is the fact that they tell themselves that they cannot, no matter how simple it is.

I see your point and I don't wanted to tell you arrogant, sorry. ;-)

But I guess it's the learning curve, which is somehow very disappointing. If you learn to use computers, you get something shown or work something out, you get the feeling, you got the idea, you try the same at another point, and it fails. Therefore you are disappointed. You give it another try, work it out, try it at another point, and it fails. "This bull**** keeps doing, what it wants!" - "Why is it not doing this and that?" - and so on.

Look at us. How much time do we spend to keep our linux up and running and how we want it? I understand, that somebody don't wants to invest that amount of time. They have a problem and want it solved. That's it. Saying "I can't do it" or "I can't learn it" is an excuse. What they really say is "I don't want to learn it, because it takes so much time and energy, but if I would tell you that, you wouldn't do it for me and call me lazy, so I pretend to be stupid, which makes you doing it for me".

Children are pretty nice to see, when they grasp this concept in their growth and try to use it on everything. :) Machos would say, women keep doing this their entire life, but we are no sexists, aren't we.

I am fine with that. I am a "computer affiliated human" and I am willing to help people I like with computers. But in my student years I also had a t-shirt telling "No, i will not fix your computer".

[Paqman]

Remember how intimidating driving a car seemed when you first tried? It's exactly the same thing. After you've been driving for a few years it's hard to relate to someone being afraid of doing something so commonplace.

[MikeTheC]

Does it annoy you beyond belief when people say they cannot use a computer?

No. It annoys me when they won't

[Bölvaður]

I give tech support to my aunt which is baffled by every single problem there occurs. Her problem is that she cannot read english.. which can be a problem as the GNOME translation is not yet complete.
So not understanding what the text says is a big problem, either if it is because the person is unwilling to read it or because of she doesnt understand it.

If the person is just unwilling to read it, then it is a mindset that is the setback. That mindset is often active in people that we might find "thick", but they are not dumber or smarter than we, they are just in that mindset. Mindsets are very powerful as people get locked into them.

Also have in mind that
fluid intelligence declines across the life span
So learning new things are natural for the human specie.

there was a study of dogs I was trying to find but could... it shows that animals can give up trying.
and another study where people get locked into certain mindset and cannot solve mindblowingly easy puzzles by locking their mindset into solving similar puzzles in different way.

[glotz]

I have had to help him out with such silly things. I have had to open folders for him, open Internet Explorer for him, open Microsoft word...Whoa, you installed Micro$oft stuff for him? I would complain too! :rolleyes:

[Dragonbite]

I had to deal with ~100 Sales Reps for the company on the website. I hated it when they would start out with
I'm not as computer savvy as you... and then go into a whole description of what they did and now they did things before they got the error (whether or not it can remotely be related to any problem other than not having enough fiber in their diet).

[happyhamster]

Best be careful. Your PC might explode when you reply to this topic!
Nah, that could never happ

[.arean]

It's not people saying they can't use a computer isn't annoying, it's when they're too lazy to even attempt to figure things out for themselves. My mom has been using modern computers (she had a Kaypro II in the 80's) for 10 years, the same length of time I have, yet she's learned almost nothing. Every time she can't get a program to do what she wants it to do or something very minor breaks, she calls me to help her. I don't mind helping her but it's just so frustrating when she could easily figure this stuff out on her own if she just spent a few minutes familiarising herself with a piece of software, checking the help documentation or doing a quick google search to find the solution.

It's not just computers but any modern electronic device. My brother got her a cell phone last year and she immediately went off about how she'll never be able to figure it out. It's a low end phone without many features and came with an instruction manual that shows you how to do everything on it. I came a bit late to the mobile phone game and didn't get my first phone until 3 years ago when I was 21. I had never used a cell phone until then yet I managed to do just fine. Why? Because I took 30 minutes out of my day to flip through the manual and explore my phone to learn how to use all the common features.

I know technology is scary, intimidating and sometimes complicated but you'll be much better off if you start learning how to use it instead of immediately panicing and getting someone do everything for you. By all means, seek help when you need it but at least attempt to solve your problems first. That's how all us "computer smart" people got to where we are.

[Yownanymous]

I usually take to technology quite quickly. For instance, I could use a PS2 controller or a Game Boy Advance flawlessly without looking at the controls within about a week of using it.

[Eisenwinter]

My father once wanted me to type a document for him, because he "didn't know how to type it in word".

Oh well...

[aysiu]

It annoys me only when it comes from people who have to use a computer regularly to make a living.

If you're at an office job where 75-90% of your work is done on a computer, you don't have an excuse for computer illiteracy.

[MikeTheC]

I find, as I get older, that my patience and tolerance for others' bad behavior (where "bad" ≠ "evil") has dropped to being practically nil. That's one of the reasons I left the tech industry on a professional basis. I'm sorry, but I have no use for people who have no use for themselves.

[speedwell68]

My mother is a reasonably clever woman, right up until you mention computers. As people have said it is her mindset. She will ask something like 'what do I need to type into amazon to find a cetain dvd?'. She gets most uppity when I suggest how about the title of the dvd you want. Another one is which socket do I plug the camera lead into, my answer would be the one it fits in.

[lykwydchykyn]

It annoys me only when it comes from people who have to use a computer regularly to make a living.

If you're at an office job where 75-90% of your work is done on a computer, you don't have an excuse for computer illiteracy.

I have some such users under my care, who sit in front of a computer 8 hours a day and insist they "know nothing about computers". Good lord, take a class on it then. Your boss will probably pay your tuition.

But what REALLY annoys me are people who trumpet their computer illiteracy when I help them with simple work-related things, but have no problem installing screensavers, games, instant messengers, and every breed of spyware on the web. Why would you install software on a machine you don't own if you consider yourself "computer illiterate".

[kaldor]

Another one I should add on is my girlfriend's mother. She is not an extremely smart person when it comes to figuring things out. She has been using computers for 10 years, but still has panic attacks when she opens a program and it maximizes. She says it deleted the other stuff on her desktop to make room for it. _EVERY_ time I am around her when she is on the computer, she will always start the same conversation.

Her: How do I close out of this?
Me/My girlfriend: The red X in the top right corner.
Her: Err, no. That way is unsafe, it will screw up the computer.
Me/My girlfriend: Then what do you do?
Her: *File, Exit* That is safe way.
*a few hours later*
Her: How do I close this pop up? File isn't there!
Me/Girlfriend: X button.
Her: How the hell do you expect me to remember this?!
*another occasion*
Her: I haven't got time for this, come here and close this for me!
Us: Just press the X
Her: EXCUSE ME! I DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT
Us: Then leave it there.
Her: *reboot computer* LOOK YOU MADE ME LOSE EVERYTHING!
Us: *leave*


She asks blind questions. Asks, then answers herself or starts to shout at us.

[Sukarn]

Remember how intimidating driving a car seemed when you first tried? It's exactly the same thing. After you've been driving for a few years it's hard to relate to someone being afraid of doing something so commonplace.

Actually, no, I kind of found it fun when I first drove a car, but that may be because I used to drive a geared motorbike for 2 years before I went on to driving a car, and I rode a bicycle since I was a small kid before I went on to driving a motorbike. Each transition was quite easy and fun for me, but I guess that's an exception rather than the rule.

[aysiu]

I was intimidated when I first drove a car. Then I got over it. It took me... maybe a month or two to get comfortable driving a car.

Most people I know have been using computers for years, if not decades, and they use them many, many hours a day, at work and at home. If there was an initial feeling of being intimidated, they should have long gotten over it... at least most of them.

[KiwiNZ]

This thread annoys me

People have different levels of understanding and different abilities to learn. If you can't take that into account when helping folks with difficulties with computers then it is you that has the problem.

[pp.]

People have different levels of understanding and different abilities to learn. If you can't take that into account when helping folks with difficulties with computers then it is you that has the problem.

Sometimes you get into a situation where you didn't elect to help someone using a computer. You are simply pressured into it. In those cases, I think it quite annyoing when people expect me to to spend more time fixing their problem than they are willing to spend preventing them.

Also, I am at times utterly amazed at the things people find difficult. One person utterly dear to me has managed not to learn so far that the power switch on practically every electrical appliance in existence is marked with the same symbol. Even after telling her five days on five consecutive days she's bound to ask "where do you turn it on", and this for devices she has used several times already.

[lykwydchykyn]

This thread annoys me

People have different levels of understanding and different abilities to learn. If you can't take that into account when helping folks with difficulties with computers then it is you that has the problem.


You have misunderstood this thread. This thread isn't about people who have learning disabilities or people who just haven't had time or opportunity to learn something.

This thread is about people who willfully and proudly resist learning about technology which, for reasons we cannot fathom, they have personally elected to own and use regularly.

I love helping people learn about computers, and particularly about Linux and open source. I don't like repeatedly spoon-feeding people who refuse to learn and are proud of the fact that they refuse to learn.

[MikeTheC]

This thread annoys me

People have different levels of understanding and different abilities to learn. If you can't take that into account when helping folks with difficulties with computers then it is you that has the problem.

While I can appreciate what you're trying to say, KiwiNZ, the fact of the matter is it's not about intelligence so much as it is about responsibility. If people took proper personal responsibility for things (both in and out of the computer world) we wouldn't be having these kinds of discussions here.

People who are mentally deficient, and people who are mentally deranged, or in any event people who are legitimately classifiable as having some kind of mental disability (or, in politically-correct speak, are "mentally challenged") have all the sympathy in the world from me, but honestly, it's still not my fault, and perhaps the wise thing for them would have been not to have owned a computer in the first place.

In any event, the whole notion of being "my brother's keeper" is all fine and well, but it still doesn't obviate, invalidate nor negate personal responsibility. Period.

[Sinkingships7]

Best be careful. Your PC might explode when you reply to this topic!Nah, that could never happ

I see what you did there.

[burneverything]

This thread annoys me

People have different levels of understanding and different abilities to learn. If you can't take that into account when helping folks with difficulties with computers then it is you that has the problem.

I have no problems with people who have different understanding &/or learning abilities, on the other hand I have a serious problem with people who refuse to learn when you teach them despite being able to; I found the solution for those though, the 3rd time around it goes:
yes I'll fix it:
for cash.
Suddenly they seem to understand and learn very fast

strange no?

[|{urse]

What really annoys me is when people click on an opinion poll and tell the original poster what they think about opinion polls rather than their opinons on the subject.

That said, yes it's upsetting when someone, anyone, is psychologically intimidated by computers. I tell them "You gotta sit down in front of that monitor and stare that screen in the face and say "We humans MADE you and we can destroy you too!"" people usually laugh at that but it helps to put computers into perspective for even the most sheepish of people. Computers are extensions of our collective minds, and no-one is too stupid for their own brain. Well... :lolflag: almost no-one.

[sydbat]

I wonder if the OP's uncle is lonely. The OP mentions that the uncle always asks for someone to come over to help with the computer. Just a thought...

[MikeTheC]

To learn how to read "the context" is far from being trivial and it is the trick in how to use a computer.

+1 for CONTEXT. Context is everything, without regard to field of endeavor.

(And basically "ditto" on most everything else you said.)

[KiwiNZ]

Ever thought there maybe reasons they dont want to state

Difficulties with such things can be embarrassing and upsetting

Also folks with learning disabilities dont wear labels. They get enough prejudice already

[|{urse]

Honestly, what learning disability would cause someone to not be able to understand computers with graphical guis?

ADD = they'll do it faster
Dyslexia = It's pictures for chrissakes
OCD = everything will be perfectly organized
etc
etc
etc

[KiwiNZ]

Honestly, what learning disability would cause someone to not be able to understand computers with graphical guis?

ADD = they'll do it faster
Dyslexia = It's pictures for chrissakes
OCD = everything will be perfectly organized
etc
etc
etc


That is exactly what I mean :mad:

[Dragonbite]

that is exactly what i mean :mad:

+1

Learning disabilities are not something to joke about. I'm seeing more and more people with learning disabilities and am thankful that there are as many resources out there as there are!

[aysiu]

Learning disabilities do not prevent you from learning. They usually hinder certain methods of learning or force you to learn at a slightly slower pace. People who have learning disabilities are not stupid. And, as a matter of fact, they tend to be more reliant on computers than others (for example, many students with dysgraphia have to use computers in school for assignments other students handwrite).

A learning disability is not an excuse for a refusal to learn. It doesn't mean you are permanently stupid or unable to learn. It means you have certain obstacles to learning that others don't, and certain learning methods that work for other people won't necessarily work for you.

If you must use a computer for your job or for schooling, and you must spend hours a day on it, it behooves you to learn how to use it properly and not be proud of your computer ignorance.

[KiwiNZ]

Learning disabilities do not prevent you from learning. T.

No but the attitudes towards learning disabilities do

Just ask my sons :(

[|{urse]

+1

Learning disabilities are not something to joke about. I'm seeing more and more people with learning disabilities and am thankful that there are as many resources out there as there are!


Um apparently you guys have me pegged as one who would laugh at the learning disabled.

I myself am diagnosed with 2 (i wont say which of the "disabilities" i listed") and, yes, It's very infuriating when people discount your aptitude and intelligence quotient (mines 146, what's yours?) just because you have that black mark on your records. Sheesh, can you take what im saying at face value and not try to pigeonhole me??

[aysiu]

No but the attitudes towards learning disabilities do

Just ask my sons :(
Certainly. If the attitude is "You have to learn it this way, or you're stupid" or "You don't have a learning disability," then I agree.

But if the attitude is "You have to learn this, and we'll work on the best way for you to do that," and the student in question (learning disability or not) has a counter-attitude of "I don't want to learn this, and I'm proud of my ignorance," then I think people have every right to be annoyed by such an attitude, especially if the this in question is something they'll be spending many hours on in their job and at home.

[gn2]

I don't like repeatedly spoon-feeding people who refuse to learn and are proud of the fact that they refuse to learn.

So just put your spoon away.

[kaldor]

I wonder if the OP's uncle is lonely. The OP mentions that the uncle always asks for someone to come over to help with the computer. Just a thought...

Far from it. He is married and has a wonderful family :)

[73ckn797]

I get annoyed by people who think everyone else should know what they know and do things the way they think they should be done. It applies to any field of technology or general knowledge.

I make my living because others cannot do what I do. I do business with companies because they can do what I cannot do. They are not stupid people because they lack the training or knowledge of what I do. I hear this attitude too often in the field I work in and get the impression that many with the same attitude are members of these and other forums. It exists in all people to some extent.

Now my Great Uncle was really outstanding in his field. He was a farmer!):P

[aysiu]

I get annoyed by people who think everyone else should know what they know and do things the way they think they should be done. It applies to any field of technology or general knowledge.

I make my living because others cannot do what I do. I do business with companies because they can do what I cannot do. They are not stupid people because they lack the training or knowledge of what I do. I hear this attitude too often in the field I work in and get the impression that many with the same attitude are members of these and other forums. It exists in all people to some extent.

Now my Great Uncle was really outstanding in his field. He was a farmer!):P
Yes, of course. If you are an accountant, you go to a car mechanic to fix your car. If you're a car mechanic, you go to the accountant to get your taxes done. That all makes sense.

But if you're an administrative assistant and you can't figure out how to copy and paste or format text in a Word document... that's not acceptable.

As I said before, if your job entails you spending hours (especially 8 or 9 hours) every day, five days a week (or more) using the computer, you should learn how to use the computer and not be proud of being computer illiterate or computer ignorant.

[handy]

But if the attitude is "You have to learn this, and we'll work on the best way for you to do that," and the student in question (learning disability or not) has a counter-attitude of "I don't want to learn this, and I'm proud of my ignorance," then I think people have every right to be annoyed by such an attitude, especially if the this in question is something they'll be spending many hours on in their job and at home.

I think many young people with learning disabilities come up with strategies to cope with them. One of these can be a rebellion towards learning, which covers the fact that it is difficult for them. They may prefer to seem tough, rather than display a weakness.

[Grant A.]

I wouldn't totally see computer illiteracy as a problem, it rather is quite good. It is much easier to teach a person how to use Ubuntu, than how to use Windows and then Ubuntu. It's kind of like a second language sort of thing. The first is always easiest to learn unless you are young enough to just pick it up via immersion.

***Grant A. has learned a good amount of BASH through immersion and will never EVER touch man BASH.

[Giant Speck]

It does not annoy me when people say they cannot use a computer.

Why should it? Most of the time, people that say they cannot use a computer only say that because deep down, they don't want to use a computer.

My father served in the Signal Corps when he was in the Army during the Vietnam War. He used room-sized computers with switches and dials -- computers that would probably be daunting for anyone of today's generation of computers to try to use.

My father avoids using computers today because they are so different than the computers he used decades ago. That, and he just doesn't need to use a computer. He's a truck driver. The only piece of personal technology he uses on a daily basis is a cell phone, and it's usually my mother at home calling him, not the other way around.

[handy]

Our brains have different modes, most people specialise in one mode, if you are primarily kinesthetic, (a person who operates primarily from feelings, who is not a detailer) then your attraction to & effectiveness with computers will be lesser than for someone who is a left brained logician who craves details to enhance their understanding & has a natural desire to understand how things work.

[73ckn797]

Yes, of course. If you are an accountant, you go to a car mechanic to fix your car. If you're a car mechanic, you go to the accountant to get your taxes done. That all makes sense.

But if you're an administrative assistant and you can't figure out how to copy and paste or format text in a Word document... that's not acceptable.

As I said before, if your job entails you spending hours (especially 8 or 9 hours) every day, five days a week (or more) using the computer, you should learn how to use the computer and not be proud of being computer illiterate or computer ignorant.


My comments are more in a general sense and I understand what you are saying. If what a person does requires the use of certain technology or other equipment then they should learn to use it. They could not keep a job if they did not. But then there are exceptions to every rule. Remember the "Peter Principle"?