The Black Web Browser

[earthpigg]

sometimes i am slightly ashamed to be american.


After more than six months of development, 40A, Inc. has completed the development of the Blackbird internet browser, a software application designed for the African American community by the African American community. The Company has also today announced a grassroots marketing program to promote the Blackbird Browser -- making available banners and buttons for use on websites to promote downloads of the Blackbird Browser. The Blackbird download graphics can be obtained from the Company's website under the tab, "Spread the Word."

link: http://www.blackbirdhome.com/index.html (http://www.blackbirdhome.com/index.html)

(its firefox with a skin, custom news feeds, a custom google search, and a 'donate now' button. "six months in development...".)



anyone else tempted to do to "blackbird" what "ubuntu satanic edition" did to "ubuntu christian edition"? :lolflag:

[dannytatom]

This really does rage me. I sent them an e-mail, asking how they don't view this as segregation. The Reply:



Dear Danny,

Blackbird is for people of any color to use and it helps to bring more
of the diverse content of the web to anyone that decides to use it. I
think in my naivete I thought people would understand that the
analogous browsers would not be Whitebird (meaning "Whites-Only"), but
Italianbird, Germanbird, Christianbird, Sportsbird or any other
diverse thinking interest group. As I have traveled the world my life
has been enriched by recognizing and learning from the differences and
richness of people, not by pretending we were all the same. We are
all human, but we have been blessed to have different colors,
cultures, likes and dislikes.

Racism is when one thinks less of another for the color of their skin.
Blackbird is not "Blacks-only," it is for anyone that wants to have
added content to their web browsing experience. Please understand that
it does not limit the sites that one visits on the web - it adds to the
ones that one would normally find. The search algorithms that determine
much of the web's traffic by necessity limit any content that is
directed to any minority subset of the general population (due to a
reliance on relevancy and links) - it is just math that does this not
racial or social bias. Blackbird allows one to broaden the experience.

I hope that you read this and understand my and my team's intent, and
even try
Blackbird. It will be made better by a diverse group of people using it
and enriching the dialogue.

All the best,
Ed
- Show quoted text -

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 04:18:23 -0600, "Danny Tatom"
<dannytatom@gmail.com> said:
> Isn't creating a browser geared toward a
> certain race promoting segregation? It seems like a step back in what
> our society is trying to achieve.
H. Edward Young, Jr.
973-670-9337
eyoung@blackbirdhome.com
www.blackbirdhome.com


Sorry for the huge quote, I figured some might find it interesting. Even with his reply, it still seems like a silly idea.

[hessiess]

Anything which increases the use of open source softwere can only be a good thing.

[CholericKoala]

Anything which increases the use of open source softwere can only be a good thing.

Even the destruction of business, which is what allows people to have the livelyhood needed to continue open source software?

[jimcooncat]

Though some customizations might be silly or embarrassing, you're going to see more of this kind of "branding" as time goes along. Do you support the free speech of others that don't agree with you? The freedom of the community will be tested by the packager that puts out KKKonqueror.

[Giant Speck]

The freedom of the community will be tested by the packager that puts out KKKonqueror.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

*wipes tear from eye*

[earthpigg]

Though some customizations might be silly or embarrassing, you're going to see more of this kind of "branding" as time goes along. Do you support the free speech of others that don't agree with you? The freedom of the community will be tested by the packager that puts out KKKonqueror.

lol @ kkkonqueror

no doubt though, the whole point of free software is the freedom to do whatever you like with it so long as you pass that freedom onto others. i do not object because of the way they are using free software, but that anyone would even feel inclined to do this (with free or non-free software).

[NewJack]

Deleted

[BGFG]

How exactly does one write african american code ?
just another way for human beings to again separate ourselves.....

[lykwydchykyn]

I don't see a problem with this, this is the whole point of open source software and the four freedoms. If a piece of code doesn't suit your needs exactly, you can modify it. And if your modifications suit the needs of a large number of other people, you have the freedom to distribute it.

Keep in mind someone decided to do this project with their own time and resources. I think some people have this mindset that a new FOSS project means that other FOSS projects loose developers or resources, and as such we should only have projects that are 'necessary'. If someone creates a program, and it gets used and enjoyed by a large number of people, so what? Obviously if it's worth the trouble to the developer, it's worthwhile.

[ibutho]

I don't particularly see the need for a browser geared to one particular race, so I will happily continue to use Firefox.

[BGFG]

I just think it's a sad day when skin colour begins to design software. What would the reaction have been like if the software was called white falcon ?

Firefox, google, yahoo, msn, etc. All these services work fine, Black, White, Asian, South American.....news are just a few keywords and a click away...

[earthpigg]

I don't see a problem with this, this is the whole point of open source software and the four freedoms. If a piece of code doesn't suit your needs exactly, you can modify it. And if your modifications suit the needs of a large number of other people, you have the freedom to distribute it.

well, cant really argue with that ;)

[Yownanymous]

While we're at this, let's just go and give whitebuntu a whole load of support...:???:

[bp1509]

i don't understand this, like i don't understand muslim and christian editions of ubuntu. But to each his own i guess.

Me personally, I'd rather focus on quality of software than forks because of religious, ethnic, or political beliefs. Not everything in this world IMO, needs to be tainted with people's b.s. political opinions.

[dwanders]

I think it is great for anyone to modify the code to suite their needs - nothing wrong with that.

To create a browser for African Americans is segregating and an insult to everyone who has been struggling to eliminate racism.


How exactly does one write african american code ?
just another way for human beings to again separate ourselves.....

And really - how can you change the code to make it more geared toward any race? Wouldn't that just be a skin or cosmetic modification?

[geoken]

I don't see a problem with this, this is the whole point of open source software and the four freedoms. If a piece of code doesn't suit your needs exactly, you can modify it. And if your modifications suit the needs of a large number of other people, you have the freedom to distribute it.

Keep in mind someone decided to do this project with their own time and resources. I think some people have this mindset that a new FOSS project means that other FOSS projects loose developers or resources, and as such we should only have projects that are 'necessary'. If someone creates a program, and it gets used and enjoyed by a large number of people, so what? Obviously if it's worth the trouble to the developer, it's worthwhile.

I don't understand your post? Nobody is complaining about the fact that this forked FireFox. They're complaining because they percieve it to be overtly racist. Are you saying we should ignore racism and not voice our discontent?

[Chilli Bob]

To create a browser for African Americans is segregating and an insult to everyone who has been struggling to eliminate racism.


+1

Furthermore I find the name of this project a bit bizarre. Blackbirders was the term used for slave traders in the bad old days. Not a term I would think they would want to associate with.

[Bölvaður]

And really - how can you change the code to make it more geared toward any race? Wouldn't that just be a skin or cosmetic modification?

From what I have learned, it has nothing to do with colour of one's skin but to the culture we come from. That is the reason for all those silly christian edition, muslim edition, lort of the rings edition of ubuntu and firefox. They do it to maintain their culture and separate them selfs (with out knowing it ofcourse) from other's in that process.

The people that are most in tune with their culture are the ones that will take any criticism very badly and think it is an attack on their culture, not the fact that this is a theme for firefox with few addons but not an original browser.

[kellemes]

Great initiative. Maybe I'll be using it.

[kellemes]

+1

Furthermore I find the name of this project a bit bizarre. Blackbirders was the term used for slave traders in the bad old days. Not a term I would think they would want to associate with.

It's a beautiful black bird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbird) too.

[mkendall]

It's the browser equivalent to BET. No big deal. I mean, I saw Ginger Baker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger_Baker) with Jens Johansson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Johansson) and Jonas Hellborg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Hellborg) - an English redhead and two Swedes - on BET. This is no worse than the Ubuntu version of Firefox having Open Source sites preinstalled in Favorites instead of links to Microsoft and Amazon.

[lykwydchykyn]

I don't understand your post? Nobody is complaining about the fact that this forked FireFox. They're complaining because they percieve it to be overtly racist. Are you saying we should ignore racism and not voice our discontent?

You have your own reasons for complaining, and you can certainly voice whatever discontent you want to. I don't see anywhere in my post where I told you not to voice your discontent.

But people bring in things like Ubuntu Christian/Muslim/whatever Edition and start complaining in general about "culture-based" forks. I say, if there's a culture out there to demand the customizations, so be it.

Whether or not a race (though really this is a culture issue, not race) based fork is a good thing from a social point of view... well seems like a waste of time to me, but as a white american it doesn't really bother me either way. I don't feel excluded by it any more than I feel excluded by Ubuntu Muslim edition, or by non-English distros, or by the fact that there's a synagogue in my city.

[dannytatom]

You say it's a culture thing, and the creator says that is well, but they're marketing it as a race thing. Not every african american has the same interests. They could have called it urbanfox if they were aiming toward a certain culture. They mention "african american" multiple times on their site, making it pretty obvious it's geared toward a race, not a culture.

And I don't think anyone feels "excluded." What bothers me is that people are trying hard to rid our country/world of racism, and things like this aren't helping.

[mkendall]

You say it's a culture thing, and the creator says that is well, but they're marketing it as a race thing.

That's because here in the US the two are used interchangably.

[lykwydchykyn]

You say it's a culture thing, and the creator says that is well, but they're marketing it as a race thing.

Yep. But that's symptomatic of the general confusion in our (American) society between race and culture. Whether or not the folks making this browser acknowledge this, what they're doing here is creating a browser aimed at a culture. Does everyone with dark skin and an African heritage like BET, jazz, hip-hop, and dark software themes? Clearly, no. But there is a subculture in America that does gravitate to these things, and predominantly this culture is (racially) black. And because of that, things geared toward this culture are marketed to a race (hence BET -- "Black entertainment television").

Is that right and good and helpful to society? I tend to think not, but there it is. Like mkendall said, this is the browser equivalent of BET. I guess if I were of African descent and I didn't like these kinds of things -- that is, if I didn't feel that the customizations in this browser represented me--I might be offended. Seeing as I'm not, I'll leave it to those who are to decide if they are offended or not.

[dwanders]

And I don't think anyone feels "excluded." What bothers me is that people are trying hard to rid our country/world of racism, and things like this aren't helping.

Exactly - I wouldn't care if I did not feel that this hurts more than it helps or if it were indifferent. But I don't think it is - I think it adds to the idea of separation rather than union. Right now my kids don't really see color, and I don't want to have to explain to them what Blackbird is all about. We'll just keep using FireFox so they can learn about how a web browser called FireFOX is really a Red Panda and not a Fox!

[dannytatom]

Yep. But that's symptomatic of the general confusion in our (American) society between race and culture. Whether or not the folks making this browser acknowledge this, what they're doing here is creating a browser aimed at a culture. Does everyone with dark skin and an African heritage like BET, jazz, hip-hop, and dark software themes? Clearly, no. But there is a subculture in America that does gravitate to these things, and predominantly this culture is (racially) black. And because of that, things geared toward this culture are marketed to a race (hence BET -- "Black entertainment television").

Is that right and good and helpful to society? I tend to think not, but there it is. Like mkendall said, this is the browser equivalent of BET. I guess if I were of African descent and I didn't like these kinds of things -- that is, if I didn't feel that the customizations in this browser represented me--I might be offended. Seeing as I'm not, I'll leave it to those who are to decide if they are offended or not.

I get what you're saying, and it does make sense. I read a comment on the techcrunch blog that I thought explained the BET analogy good:

BET is content, your TV is way to see the content. Websites such as black planet and BET.com are content, Blackbird is your way to see the content. Making this browser is like Sony making a "BlackTV" with buttons for BET and ESPN on the front.

I'm not saying it's racist, I just think they made a horrible decision in the way they're marketing/labeling this thing. If it is indeed aimed at a culture, and not a race, they should make that more obvious.

[billgoldberg]

Anything which increases the use of open source softwere can only be a good thing.

I don't agree, at all.

[Changturkey]

Wow, next we'll have DragonFox, for Asians. Unity, not division...

[init1]

Apparently the African American community doesn't use Linux, since they've only released a Windows version.

[Grant A.]

Apparently the African American community doesn't use Linux, since they've only released a Windows version.

I find that rather ironic considering the GNU mascot is a... GNU... native to Africa. :lolflag:

[cb951303]

I don't see a problem with this, this is the whole point of open source software and the four freedoms. If a piece of code doesn't suit your needs exactly, you can modify it. And if your modifications suit the needs of a large number of other people, you have the freedom to distribute it.


what I don't understand is exactly what part of firefox doesn't suit african american people's needs? How an african american person's browser needs can be different than a white persons?

It looks unnecessary to me ...

[earthpigg]

what I don't understand is exactly what part of firefox doesn't suit african american people's needs? How an african american person's browser needs can be different than a white persons?

It looks unnecessary to me ...

dude, we already covered this:

-custom google search
-a black firefox theme
-"donate now" button

[blakjesus]

Wow... This is what i really don't like about people in the "black community". (Before someone calls me racist, i want to point out that im black) They keep complaining about inequality when alot of the time it is them that are alienating themselves. I really can't see what gave them the motivation to make a 'web browser for the african american community'.

Alot of the time, stuff like this seems like people going out of their way to keep themselves from being grouped in with the rest of society.

EDIT:
I see this the way i see BET. Why do i as a black person need a separate channel? It also aggravates me when i am seen as not truly black among my black friends because i dont follow along with that stuff.

Also it seems like stuff like this is just an excuse to squeeze money out of people. earthpigg already pointed out the only real difference is the donate button. And who exactly does that go to?

Gah! I have to go cool off.

[dannytatom]

Wow... This is what i really don't like about people in the "black community". (Before someone calls me racist, i want to point out that im black) They keep complaining about inequality when alot of the time it is them that are alienating themselves. I really can't see what gave them the motivation to make a 'web browser for the african american community'.

Alot of the time, stuff like this seems like people going out of their way to keep themselves from being grouped in with the rest of society.

I COMPLETELY agree with this. But as a white man, it's hard to say this without being labeled a racist.

[K.Mandla]

Seems to me, the beauty of open source is that you can do what you want with it.

If you don't like someone else's software, don't use it. Maybe their goals or needs don't mesh with yours, but that doesn't invalidate their project.

[Grant A.]

If you don't like someone else's software, don't use it. Maybe their goals or needs don't mesh with yours, but that doesn't invalidate their project.

Yes, but the "DONATE" button built-in to the browser leads me to believe they are just trying to sell the same Firefox with a theme, and a pointless custom search.

[blakjesus]

Seems to me, the beauty of open source is that you can do what you want with it.

If you don't like someone else's software, don't use it. Maybe their goals or needs don't mesh with yours, but that doesn't invalidate their project.

I am also free to not watch BET, but that doesn't stop other black people from looking down at for not watching it.

Im, sorry. Just because of the nature of it, i dont see this as just another open-source project.

[Sealbhach]

At first, I reacted like a lot of people on the thread have, but then I had a little think about it.

Supposing there was a Celtic browser, for people in North America with a Celtic heritage who want to identify themselves as being part of a group and find it useful to have custom search and Celtic artwork and access to like-minded people who share common interests? I think it would be a similar thing.

It's good for a person's psychological well-being to have a sense of belonging and identity which mere nationality sometimes doesn't provide.

Reading the reply from the guys who designed this browser, there doesn't appear to be anything sinister or separatist in their motivations. I wish them well.


.

[earthpigg]

I am also free to not watch BET, but that doesn't stop other black people from looking down at for not watching it.

Im, sorry. Just because of the nature of it, i dont see this as just another open-source project.

those rare times i am in front of a tv... ill watch it for a few minutes if im channel surfing and a good music video happens to be on.

*shrug*

im a WASP though, so i dont have to worry about my ignorant friends calling me 'whitewashed' for failing to watch BET on a regular basis.

and yeah, your point makes total sense. is self-descrimination a word? maybe it should be...

(be honest with yourself... we all have friends that are stunningly ignorant in one way or another :) )

[lykwydchykyn]

what I don't understand is exactly what part of firefox doesn't suit african american people's needs? How an african american person's browser needs can be different than a white persons?

It looks unnecessary to me ...

Looks like that to me, but then that's natural because I'm not remotely in the target demographic. I guess I come from the philosophy that if someone wants to create a project, they should just go ahead and do it. If it's useful, it'll get users and prosper. If not, the author will eventually decide he's wasting his time and move on.

Now, to be clear, I've been defending the notion of culture-based software forks in general. In the case of blackbird, I don't think the execution or the marketing of this project is being done tastefully.

[magmon]

Well first off, the name is somewhat racist. So is the description. "Browser for black people by black people". As far as Im concerned, this is a major step back. Black people fought for equal rights for years (And dammit, they should have them!), and now we have companys making software special for them?? This is racism....
Why are we so different anyway?

[earthpigg]

Why are we so different anyway?

perception becomes reality.

[I-75]

I don't see what the issue is about. if someone wants to make a special version for themselves...so be it.

About the name "Black Web Browser" , so the Chinese has Red Flag Linux. They have no problem with using Red in the title of the software.

Red was associated with communism (sometimes as a negative perception) for a long time.

[earthpigg]

pssst, i-75: 'red flag' describes the flag of the country of china (its red), and has nothing to do with communism (China communist in name only, obviously).

the correct comparison would be if the chinese edition was called "yellowbird" or something.

china is a country, african-american is not.

[mkendall]

Study up on the Russian Communist revolution. There are red Communists and White Communists. After the Czar was "overthrown," the Reds eliminated the Whites.

[tbroderick]

(its firefox with a skin, custom news feeds, a custom google search, and a 'donate now' button. "six months in development...".)


It's not a "donate now" button, it's a "give back" button which is a link to a page to search for non-profits and volunteer opportunities.

http://dogood.blackbirdhome.com/

There's also an email button to setup a gmail/hotmail/yahoo account, social network button to myspace and facebook, as well as custom bookmarks (everything from BET, Ebony, Essence, Time, USA Today, Flickr, Black Colleges, ESPN, etc.)

[warbread]

what I don't understand is exactly what part of firefox doesn't suit african american people's needs? How an african american person's browser needs can be different than a white persons?


Well, apparently...



Because we know the 20 million African Americans online need tools to build and foster community now more than ever.

Because we know that 85% of African Americans prefer online news and information from the Black perspective.*


Because we know that you are twice as likely to be among the first to discover new trends and use advanced technology compared to the general population.*




I'm puzzled as to what 1 & 3 actually mean, but I don't think 2 is very far fetched at all. Making slight tweaks to an already existing open-source browser is a harmless, if not great, idea. What wouldn't make sense at all is building a new browser from the ground up.

[cb951303]

Well, apparently...
I'm puzzled as to what 1 & 3 actually mean, but I don't think 2 is very far fetched at all. Making slight tweaks to an already existing open-source browser is a harmless, if not great, idea. What wouldn't make sense at all is building a new browser from the ground up.

well making tweaks is harmless but working 6 months on such a project is just plain unnecessary. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it but I'm pretty sure they can do many other things that are much much more helpful to the african-american community with the same effort.

so far nothing convinces me that this project is necessary. what exactly is a black perpective for web? there is no such thing.

edit: I also agree with the post #2. This is just another reason for people to segregate. and the response mail from blackbird does not really say much on the issue.

[warbread]

well making tweaks is harmless but working 6 months on such a project is just plain unnecessary. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it but I'm pretty sure they can do many other things that are much much more helpful to the african-american community with the same effort.

so far nothing convinces me that this project is necessary. what exactly is a black perpective for web? there is no such thing.

"Necessity" isn't necessary. But how do you know that there's no such thing as a black perspective for the web? The project may be silly, but if at least one person likes it enough to use it, then it's a successful one.

[cb951303]

"Necessity" isn't necessary. But how do you know that there's no such thing as a black perspective for the web? The project may be silly, but if at least one person likes it enough to use it, then it's a successful one.

wow that's the silliest statement I have ever seen. necessity is surely necessary. if we don't need an application why use it? and if we don't use it why creating the application in the first place?

I said there is no black perspective for web because in web people don't have ids. Race, ethnicity, gender etc. are all unknown in web hence there is only one perspective and that's 'user'.

EDIT: The question is, are you okay with the idea that this browser being used by only few people for the cost of racial segregation in web community?

[dannytatom]

edit: I also agree with the post #2. This is just another reason for people to segregate. and the response mail from blackbird does not really say much on the issue.

I e-mailed them back on the issue, hopeing to get an e-mail in the morning. The first e-mail I sent (that they didn't reply to) was about the 3rd quote on their page.

"Because we know that you are twice as likely to be among the first to discover new trends and use advanced technology compared to the general population.*"

I downloaded the PDF they listed as a source, and found no mention of the words black or african american. And even if it were there, there's really no reason to point that out so blatantly. :/

[warbread]

wow that's the silliest statement I have ever seen. necessity is surely necessary. if we don't need an application why use it? and if we don't use it why creating the application in the first place?

I said there is no black perspective fro web because in web people don't have ids. Race, ethnicity, gender etc. are all unknown in web hence there is only one perspective and that's 'user'.

How often do gamers need games? Computer use isn't defined by necessity, it's defined by preference, which is defined by what use the user intends to gain out of the program. If a user is consistently interested in news affecting a particular group or sub-culture, then a program that automatically aggregates that information and delivers it to the user is going to be more useful. This happens regardless of where you draw the distinction between user identity and Internet identity.

[warbread]

EDIT: The question is, are you okay with the idea that this browser being used by only few people for the cost of racial segregation in web community?

No, no I am not...

...who said anything about segregation?

[SeanHodges]

anyone else tempted to do to "blackbird" what "ubuntu satanic edition" did to "ubuntu christian edition"? :lolflag:

Almost, but it's just a spoof site:

http://www.whitebirdbrowser.com/

[warbread]

Almost, but it's just a spoof site:

http://www.whitebirdbrowser.com/


Exactly! It even has a link to Preston Woods Country Club. See? This browser can better fit my whiteness.

[derekr44]

In the end, I believe people are causing the very problems they are trying to fix. Ironic, isn't it? Continuing to classify an American citizen is forceful segregation. You are applying a label to something that doesn't need one. Everyone needs to read The Anatomy of Peace.

In the meantime, I stumbled across a bumper sticker the other day that has got to be the funniest I've seen. It sums up everything I've always said about racism/sexism/etc.


White, straight, Republican male. How else can I **** you off today?

[cb951303]

How often do gamers need games? Computer use isn't defined by necessity, it's defined by preference, which is defined by what use the user intends to gain out of the program. If a user is consistently interested in news affecting a particular group or sub-culture, then a program that automatically aggregates that information and delivers it to the user is going to be more useful. This happens regardless of where you draw the distinction between user identity and Internet identity.

Even though games are not the subject here, gamers *need* games for entertaining. Preferences are based on the needs of users. You don't write an application just to present new preferences. You write it because some people prefer a different approach or in other words they *need* that property in their application. Now, what does blackbird do that firefox doesn't?

Free software is brilliant because everyone is free to modify it. We are also free to eat as much as we like, but how often do you see people eating a whole cow just because they can? What I'm trying to say is if there is no reason to modify a software then don't. Having the freedom of modifying a software is not a good enough reason by itself to modify it. In the case of blackbird, I haven't seen a good reason (yet).

[lykwydchykyn]

What I'm trying to say is if there is no reason to modify a software then don't. Having the freedom of modifying a software is not a good enough reason by itself for modifying. In the case of blackbird, I haven't seen a good reason (yet).

Apparently, the folks developing it saw a good reason. So they did. I guess time will tell if there really was a good reason; though I have strong suspicions nobody will use this or care.

[markp1989]

stuff like this anoys me, it needlesly seperates people,in the same way that ubuntu ME, whitebuntu and CE do.

also, if there was a browser specificaly for the white comunity, people would be up in arms, complaining that it is racist.

[CholericKoala]

I could see ME and CE being justified if it had some sort of internal networking for people of that persuasion to talk to each other in a closed environment.

[|{urse]

thats as silly as saying that ubuntu is afrocentric! erm. Or at least as silly as saying ubuntu customized another distribution and called it their own..... oh, well i mean.. :lolflag: At least ubuntu did a lot of work on their distribution before pretending it was ready. and 6 months of ubuntu development > 6 months of blackbird dev, apparently.

[tdrusk]

anyone else tempted to do to "blackbird" what "ubuntu satanic edition" did to "ubuntu christian edition"? :lolflag:
Satanic edition was more of a "Hey look how cool this looks".

I suppose your lol was for that sentence though, so I won't take it too seriously.

[bp1509]

Almost, but it's just a spoof site:

http://www.whitebirdbrowser.com/

rofl

[earthpigg]

lol @ whitebirdbrowser

[jimi_hendrix]

well i like the skin...

[tdrusk]

well i like the skin...
that took me a minute.

I could think of much more racist things to include in a web browser that I choose to not mention due to UF restrictions.

[EdThaSlayer]

If the African-American community wants their own browsers,let them have it. Don't start making fun of them because of the skin and all(which would actually, be racist).

[CholericKoala]

If the African-American community wants their own browsers,let them have it. Don't start making fun of them because of the skin and all(which would actually, be racist).

Out of curiosity, why do you think people think this is silly?

[warbread]

Even though games are not the subject here, gamers *need* games for entertaining. Preferences are based on the needs of users. You don't write an application just to present new preferences. You write it because some people prefer a different approach or in other words they *need* that property in their application. Now, what does blackbird do that firefox doesn't?

No. Games are a sufficient, but not necessary, condition for entertainment. Games may be entertaining, but there are other things that are entertaining as well. Therefore, there is no necessity, just like there is no necessity for Firefox, Ubuntu, computers or rocket ships. Many of the tools we create - most of them, actually - are to make attaining a goal easier, not because they fulfill some necessary condition.



Free software is brilliant because everyone is free to modify it. We are also free to eat as much as we like, but how often do you see people eating a whole cow just because they can? What I'm trying to say is if there is no reason to modify a software then don't. Having the freedom of modifying a software is not a good enough reason by itself to modify it. In the case of blackbird, I haven't seen a good reason (yet).

Ever hear of an eating competition? The goal is just that: eat as much as you can, as fast as you can. People do goofy, pointless things all the time. They're very popular on TV.

What qualifies a reason as "good enough" for a software project? If the developers of Blackbird had instead spent 6 months creating a Firefox plugin that would have all the same features that Blackbird has (however many there are ... 2?), and called it "The plugin for people who are interested in African-American news", would that change things? Would that have created as much of a stir?

[EdThaSlayer]

Out of curiosity, why do you think people think this is silly?

Because they like a monocultural world with monocultural software. :D
Let the software diversity start. Also->saying that these African-Americans making this software segregates them could be used on religion for example. There is an Ubuntu Christian or Muslim edition yet no one says that's "dividing people". Let diversity reign, just accept that we live in a diverse world where people are different and express their differences in a-you guessed it-different way. :KS

[dannytatom]

Religion is a choice, whereas your race is not. And because of that, it's more likely christians will hold similar interests compared to a whole race.

I don't see how some of you are taking this as a culture-based browser. If you read the site, it's made for the "african american community." As far as I know, that is a racial community, not a cultural one.

I'm not saying this is totally racist, yadda yadda, I'm just sayin' its obviously aimed at a race, not a culture. And if that's not the case, they should do a better job describing their ideas.

[dannytatom]

Also, for anyone interested. I sent a reply to his last e-mail (posted on first page), and this was his reply:

From me:


I'm not saying it is racist, and I apologize if it sounded that way.
I understand the point of the browser. You sound like a good hearted,
well intentioned person. I just think the way you're marketing
Blackbird comes off as a way to seperate the black community from the
rest of the online world with their own special browser to show them
content, as if they couldn't find it themselves like every other race.

I am not the only one that feels that this is dividing either, you can read comments from many others on the techcrunch blog:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/08/blackbird-is-a-custom-browser-for-african-americans-built-on-top-of-mozilla/

There is nothing wrong with showing certain people content they are
likely to enjoy. What is wrong is that you assume (at least, it
sounds like you do), that all black people have the same interests.

"I thought people would understand that the analogous browsers would
not be Whitebird (meaning "Whites-Only"), but Italianbird, Germanbird,
Christianbird, Sportsbird or any other diverse thinking interest
group"

The problem with the above quote is that black, white, italian and
german are races of people. christian and sports are not. All sports
fans are interested in sports, but not all italians are interested in the same thing. Christianity is a religion, a choice, but I agree that people in a religion would be inclined to have a lot of the same interests. The difference with all this is that race is not a choice, unlike a hobby or belief system, and not everyone of a certain race is exactly the same.

I just think that this browser is doing nothing but seperating people by race.

Like I said, I understand what you're trying to do, I just think you
could've done a better job marketing it and making it sound less like
it's built to seperate the "black" internet and "everyone else's"
internet.


His reply:


Dear Danny,

Thanks for responding. I do understand your point and I appreciate your
feedback and I believe that I do agree with your thought process
overall. The difference is that whenever people talk about race they
seem to forget that it should be thought of as simply one part of the
whole of an individual - it really is just one part of the identity or
"identifier" of a person. This is why I gave the analogies with such a
wide range, to show that it should be thought of with the same relevance
as choices, likes, dislikes, cultures, etc. I think that we, as a
nation, tend to overemphasize the importance of race and act as if it so
much more than it really is.

We are keenly aware that black people are not some monolithic thought
group, just as if we did a sports interest browser people would like
different sports and different teams, the same holds true for black
people and others that use Blackbird - it is simply a way to sort
interests or identity. Remember, we are fully aware that race is not
the whole identity of the person, just one aspect. That is why the
browser, at face value is just like any other browser - the enhanced, or
more expansive, content is one, two, or three button clicks away. When
we were building the application I had many friends and colleagues test
it to make certain that it was a productive tool for all people, not
just black people and, unfortunately, that aspect seems to be lost in
many of the discussions. And yes, that may be my fault because I
underestimated the focus that people put on something tagged "BLACK" in
name.

I can say that I am grateful for people like you who are willing to
initiate a dialogue and really do desire a more open and harmonious
world. The irony of this whole hoopla is that, by initiating
discussions such as this, we may be getting closer to that society that
you and I would really like to see. This is why I love America so much.
It really is the only place where people care so much to work so hard
to live together and we are all made better through that process. I say
this sincerely; please keep in touch and use Blackbird, join the
Grapevine and get dialogue happening.

All the best,
Ed


Sorry that was such a huge post. And yeah, I know I don't have the best grammar. ;)

[warbread]

I don't see how some of you are taking this as a culture-based browser. If you read the site, it's made for the "african american community." As far as I know, that is a racial community, not a cultural one.

I'm not saying this is totally racist, yadda yadda, I'm just sayin' its obviously aimed at a race, not a culture. And if that's not the case, they should do a better job describing their ideas.




Hank: Where the heck did they put African-America, anyway?
Dean: I don’t know, Hank, but it’s not on any of our charts.


So, would it make you feel better if they re-worded it to be "A browser about general concerns regarding African-Americans"? It would be totally different if the browser was marketed to "You people", had constantly scrolling rap lyrics and links to booty-shake videos on Youtube. But it doesn't. It's news, reordered search results and a donate button. As long as there's a college level course titled "African-American Studies", then there's plenty of news and information out there that will be of interest to people who consider themselves interested in some sort of Afircan-American-ism. This browser may be just for them.

[dannytatom]

I'm not denying that it's a good and useful tool. Since my first post I've changed my views on this a bit, but I still think it was a horrible decision to market it the way they did.

Also, I just looked at their site to pull some quotes of what I thought was bad marketing, and it seems they have removed them.

But if you look a few pages back, I think a few people quoted them.

[|{urse]

okay, okay, open source + "anything" != better.

Just because you pin the label of Open Source on something doesn't make it acceptable. lol how about some open source genocide? Or get your free* open source nuclear weapons? Segregationalism is racist, theres no two ways about it.

Suppose there were WET (white entertainment television) someone would get hurt or sued (probably in that order). Or hey! How about The United Caucasian College Fund? Great idea huh?? Praising software developers (if you can call these guys that) for creating racist revisions of os software for insular xenophobes is a step in the wrong direction.

Wow lol i didnt know i cared about this until i thought about it a couple days.

:lolflag:

[CholericKoala]

Affirmative Action demands that asian people need a browser to themselves also!

[forrestcupp]

If it's politically incorrect to call African Americans "black" then what are "black" people who live in Europe called? I'm seriously interested to know what they are called in places like the U.K.

[warbread]

okay, okay, open source + "anything" != better.

Just because you pin the label of Open Source on something doesn't make it acceptable. lol how about some open source genocide? Or get your free* open source nuclear weapons? Segregationalism is racist, theres no two ways about it.

Suppose there were WET (white entertainment television) someone would get hurt or sued (probably in that order). Or hey! How about The United Caucasian College Fund? Great idea huh?? Praising software developers (if you can call these guys that) for creating racist revisions of os software for insular xenophobes is a step in the wrong direction.

Wow lol i didnt know i cared about this until i thought about it a couple days.

:lolflag:

What does the browser do that segregates one population from another? I think it's quite the overreaction to make claims that Blackbird is a "racist revision" or that its users are "insular xenophobes".

As soon as I'm done with my term paper, I'll try out the browser and post a full report here. It's good that there are people willing to stand up against what they think is racism, but for as big as this issue is, there is very little in the way of factual claims. Blackbird may not be a courageous step forward in racial relations or anything, but neither is frantically calling the race card every time someone makes a news aggregator for a minority group. If someone is willing to beat me to it, be my guest - after the paper, I'd like to get some studying done, and I don't know what good a review from Whitey will do. Still, it should be done.

[CholericKoala]

What does the browser do that segregates one population from another? I think it's quite the overreaction to make claims that Blackbird is a "racist revision" or that its users are "insular xenophobes".

As soon as I'm done with my term paper, I'll try out the browser and post a full report here. It's good that there are people willing to stand up against what they think is racism, but for as big as this issue is, there is very little in the way of factual claims. Blackbird may not be a courageous step forward in racial relations or anything, but neither is frantically calling the race card every time someone makes a news aggregator for a minority group. If someone is willing to beat me to it, be my guest - after the paper, I'd like to get some studying done, and I don't know what good a review from Whitey will do. Still, it should be done.

America has been trying to destroy segregation for the past 40 years. This is an informal type of segregation.

[hanzomon4]

LOL...

Really, why is everyone so upset about this browser? It seems like the word "black", political correctness, and integration are all the rage these days. We really have come a long way in America when a few extra 1s and 0s with a funky name gets compared to Jim Crow segregation. We've either reached a new level of ignorance or we've decided to go tit for tat over who's the real victim of racism in this country.

Why oh why do we think that an integrated society is a color blind one. That would be boring and impossible. The world is cool because of it's differences, just think about how much pizza night would suck if you could only eat Japanese.

This browser(can it really be called that), is no different then Ubuntu Christian/Muslim, Lou Dobbs, Bill Orliey, Oprah, or American Idol. Religion, Political Party, cultist, and idiots... Those products/shows present something to a certain demographic. The only thing exclusive about them and this browser is that they're not targeted at everyone.

I think the real issue with this browser, BET, or anything labeled "Black" is the fact that African Americans can so boldly show flashes of cultural pride because of centuries of oppression; and White Americans can't for the same reason.

Edit: Has anyone noticed how Chinese China town is? I'm mean what's the deal, a towns a town. Do they really need a Chinese version /sarcasm

[CholericKoala]

The point is that if people want to be treated differently and separately than everyone else, so be it, as long as they dont try to say they should be treated the same. Once again, for so long people have striven for being treated the same, but separating people in this way moves the opposite direction.

[|{urse]

Not that it really matters but i am "black". If i need to search for something and need "black" results I'll include "black" in my query.

[hanzomon4]

The point is that if people want to be treated differently and separately than everyone else, so be it, as long as they dont try to say they should be treated the same. Once again, for so long people have striven for being treated the same, but separating people in this way moves the opposite direction.

But this browser does not separate anyone, it just caters to a group of people that want an urban slant. I'm black, as you can tell from my picture, but I have no interest in using this and I don't have to. I know white people that would love this because they feel closer to black culture and they can use this. I'm sorry but this browser is not the FOSS equivalent to jim crow segregation. We are different, racially/culturally we are more likely to be drawn to different things and it's ok if we want to be around like minded folks.

We should be having fun living in a world where we can so easily experience another culture. Maybe it's just me but I don't take offense when people do something that highlights their culture. I've partied at Jewish events, had drinks with confederate flag wearing co-workers, and danced in the blackest of churches. Not once have I been made to feel unwelcome just because some one else's culture had the spotlight.

It's not blackbird that makes you feel "oppressed" it's your own attitude. I think the download link works for everyone without testing for blackness. So just take it as another slice of the cultural pie for the digital age.

[warbread]

America has been trying to destroy segregation for the past 40 years. This is an informal type of segregation.

What I'm asking is, what makes it segregation? This is a far cry from separate bathrooms schools.

[eternalnewbee]

But this browser does not separate anyone, it just caters to a group of people that want an urban slant. I'm black, as you can tell from my picture, but I have no interest in using this and I don't have to. I know white people that would love this because they feel closer to black culture and they can use this. I'm sorry but this browser is not the FOSS equivalent to jim crow segregation. We are different, racially/culturally we are more likely to be drawn to different things and it's ok if we want to be around like minded folks.

We should be having fun living in a world where we can so easily experience another culture. Maybe it's just me but I don't take offense when people do something that highlights their culture. I've partied at Jewish events, had drinks with confederate flag wearing co-workers, and danced in the blackest of churches. Not once have I been made to feel unwelcome just because some one else's culture had the spotlight.

It's not blackbird that makes you feel "oppressed" it's your own attitude. I think the download link works for everyone without testing for blackness. So just take it as another slice of the cultural pie for the digital age.
This sounds good to me.

[|{urse]

What I'm asking is, what makes it segregation? This is a far cry from separate bathrooms schools.


I'll put it like this, a web browser is a one-size fits all tool. It works for everyone the same regardless of race, it doesnt need to be changed to be more suitable for any minority (besides language of course) It's like saying "Here i made a spoon that is only for white people". The firefox browser is just as multipurpose as a bathroom, except both males and females can use it. So theres no other reason for race to enter into it unless the reviser of said software is in fact trying to be racially exclusive a.k.a segregationalist.

[earthpigg]

But this browser does not separate anyone, it just caters to a group of people that want an urban slant. -snip- I know white people that would love this because they feel closer to black culture and they can use this.

im not black. my brother is. he plays video games, likes hard rock, and his clothes fit properly.

had the author of blackbird used the words 'urban' or 'hip hop oriented' in all cases and not 'african american' or 'black', i would have zero objection.

i don't believe there is any such thing as 'black culture'. linking the type of guy and beliefs of Obama(+friends) with Akon(+friends) is aboslutely rediculious... or Dr King and his buddies with the Panthers and their buddies, same thing.

there are indeed multiple subcultures and such who's ranks are generally filled by black folks, but i wouldn't go so far as to lump them all together as 'black culture'.

or will we next lump redneck country music fans and urban teens with mowhawks and crazy piercings together as 'white culture'???

if the author wants to call it 'urban-oriented', then that sounds great to me... but he doesn't.

he'd rather focus on skin color.

[Valtiel]

This really does rage me. I sent them an e-mail, asking how they don't view this as segregation. The Reply:



Sorry for the huge quote, I figured some might find it interesting. Even with his reply, it still seems like a silly idea.

His reply means nothing good for web-browsing but it does add a lot to segregation.

Moreover, his reply deeply fails in letting us know how this Mozilla based browser is really different from the well known FREE FROM racial/political/religious divisions Firefox browser. If anybody wants to find websites that they wouldn't normally find on their own, they can always get StumpleUpon or just visit tech communities like idk, lifehacker, gizmodo or our very own Ubuntu Community forum. I can tell you that Blackbirdhome.com is a webiste I wouldn't have found on my normal web browsing.

All that from good old Firefox :guitar:


But hey, as good old Enemy Number One told me: Fight the power that be. Fight the power~

[hanzomon4]

im not black. my brother is. he plays video games, likes hard rock, and his clothes fit properly.

had the author of blackbird used the words 'urban' or 'hip hop oriented' in all cases and not 'african american' or 'black', i would have zero objection.

i don't believe there is any such thing as 'black culture'. linking the type of guy and beliefs of Obama(+friends) with Akon(+friends) is aboslutely rediculious... or Dr King and his buddies with the Panthers and their buddies, same thing.

there are indeed multiple subcultures and such who's ranks are generally filled by black folks, but i wouldn't go so far as to lump them all together as 'black culture'.

or will we next lump redneck country music fans and urban teens with mowhawks and crazy piercings together as 'white culture'???

if the author wants to call it 'urban-oriented', then that sounds great to me... but he doesn't.

he'd rather focus on skin color.

If that were the case (black culture not being real) then that would also be true of every other culture. To say that Japanese culture does not exist because some Japanese people listen to noise rock and the other listens to country would be like saying a culture can't be real if it's diverse.

Honestly black culture/ urban culture... We're splitting hairs, it means the same thing politically correct or not.

[bruce89]

I remember hearing about a one-a-day tear off calendar which said something like "$(baseball player) played with an African-American number 9 on his back". A bit of over-compensating I think.

I don't see how a Web browser can be segregational.

[EdThaSlayer]

You guys are all so ironic.
Loving the diversity of software while not loving the diversity of the world.

To put it short, if it's a "African-American" that made this, then it's all cool with. As long as it promotes the use of free open-source software then I'm all good with it.It's not like they are stopping all of you other humans from downloading this software. They aren't Windows folks!


Let it be, let it be.
Peace out.

[Polygon]

You guys are all so ironic.
Loving the diversity of software while not loving the diversity of the world.

To put it short, if it's a "African-American" that made this, then it's all cool with. As long as it promotes the use of free open-source software then I'm all good with it.It's not like they are stopping all of you other humans from downloading this software. They aren't Windows folks!


Let it be, let it be.
Peace out.

he is promoting segregation by claiming its a web browser made by ONLY blacks and supposed to give you updates into the black community

if he was promoting diversity of the human culture, they he would jsut make software without singling any group or culture out. Cause that is the way people should think, about thoughts, personality, the type of PERSON you are rather then your skin color. This is why i don't like 'black history month' and all that. In my opinion, as long as stuff like that is going on, we will never achieve true equality. buttttt thats just me [/offtopic]

[rokytnji]

Apparently the African American community doesn't use Linux, since they've only released a Windows version.


I wonder why there isn't a Linux Version to be downloaded?

[CholericKoala]

Perhaps if culture, defined here, wasn't so closely related to skin color, then it would be different.

[hanzomon4]

I wonder why there isn't a Linux Version to be downloaded?

I guess they have something against multi-color birds?

C'mon, against Black history month? When else would you hear it? I don't know about your school but in my old high school history class blacks were just slaves and Martin Luther King. The slave part was always wired cause everyone looked at me like I had cancer and they gave it to me... Awkward, especially when I had a class with a white girl with the same last name and the teacher pointed out what that likely meant. She couldn't stop apologizing ](*,)

[coolbrook]

I like the name and logo.