PDA

View Full Version : A Must Read: "Linux - stop holding our kids back"



wolfen69
December 10th, 2008, 08:11 AM
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html

absolutely unbelievable.

Giant Speck
December 10th, 2008, 08:17 AM
The "teacher" spelled conference incorrectly.

Riffer
December 10th, 2008, 08:20 AM
Sounds like my school district and many of my colleagues.

FuturePilot
December 10th, 2008, 08:25 AM
Wow :shock:
just wow....

darrenn
December 10th, 2008, 08:37 AM
I will not judge this person. This is letter of fear. I have seen this many times. I have spent my entire education being forced to use windows. But today I use linux freely.

the yawner
December 10th, 2008, 09:16 AM
It would have been wise to do the research first before the email.

eternalnewbee
December 10th, 2008, 09:38 AM
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/1...kids-back.html

absolutely unbelievable.
Totally agree with Helios, and at the same time feel really sorry for the teacher (only because I'm not personally involved).

Trail
December 10th, 2008, 09:54 AM
I don't care about the teacher, feeling sorry about the kids.

Pisses me off.

WaeV
December 10th, 2008, 10:15 AM
Agreed. It really bugs me when people act this way out of ignorance.

canoemoose
December 10th, 2008, 10:44 AM
Strewth! (I'd use a stronger word, but don't want to upset anyone.) Had this happened/should this happen to me, I'd be livid! Unbelievable. I'm lost for words really. Luckily,so far I've been lucky in that my secondary school was Linux neutral but had a faw Linux machines, and my sixth form college is neutral to frowning. Anyone tries to stop me though, I'll educate them!!

Maratonda
December 10th, 2008, 11:50 AM
That is why I am not overly focused on the "does Linux work better than Windows?" side but rather consider every day I spend working on Linux a contribution to my freedom, to my knowledge, and against intellectual slavery.

Freedom in computing is at such a young stage that examples like this remind me of the Middle Ages, witches, and the Roman Church that decided which books were to be spread and which weren't, and in this way it kept its power. But it didn't last long...

Trail
December 10th, 2008, 12:14 PM
Strewth! (I'd use a stronger word, but don't want to upset anyone.) Had this happened/should this happen to me, I'd be livid! Unbelievable. I'm lost for words really.

You don't seem particularly lost for words, to be frank.

chucky chuckaluck
December 10th, 2008, 12:26 PM
nevermind (it was stupid).

bomanizer
December 10th, 2008, 01:23 PM
Those argumets in the email have the same chances of surviving like a snowball in Sahara would have. Absolutely amazing, I read that in disbelief. If I didn't know better, I'd say someone made that up.

AlphaMack
December 10th, 2008, 02:02 PM
What disturbs me more is her mentality that she has to teach the kids Windows because it's the norm in her world. It's akin to me having to learn to use a typewriter in the 7th grade because the instructor told me that I would be using a typewriter as soon as I grew up. Upon entering college, Win NT was the norm. Yes, NT. No typewriters then.

No one teaches the fundamentals anymore. You have to learn Windows instead of an operating system. You have to learn Word 2003 instead of a word processor. No wonder why IT staff shudder at the thought of having to train office monkeys whenever there is an upgrade to MS Office...

Sealbhach
December 10th, 2008, 02:02 PM
If teachers start confiscating Linux it will become wildly popular among schoolkids. Woot!:p


.

billgoldberg
December 10th, 2008, 02:02 PM
How a person like that can TEACH to others is beyond me.

I never let stuff be taken from me by teachers (it's not legal).

Well they could take my gsm as long as I got it back the second school was over.

red_Marvin
December 10th, 2008, 02:16 PM
Ignorance is one thing, but her knee jerk reaction that something different -> something wrong makes her, in my opinion at least, unfit as a teacher.

whitefang5412
December 10th, 2008, 02:17 PM
If teachers start confiscating Linux it will become wildly popular among schoolkids. Woot!:p


.
Truely sad that the teacher herself is un-educated. The kid did nothing wrong and linux is totally free and open source. She seems like a teacher stuck in the 80's and early 90's. Linux has changed greatly since then. Linux's options are so vast these days, why not use it?

Chame_Wizard
December 10th, 2008, 02:44 PM
:confused:WTF is this kind of joke?Some people really are crazy love into M$.:lolflag:

Sealbhach
December 10th, 2008, 03:08 PM
:confused:WTF is this kind of joke?Some people really are crazy love into M$.:lolflag:

It's a well known fact that a computer cannot run without Windows installed. Everybody knows that.


.

4th guy
December 10th, 2008, 03:09 PM
This is not love, this is the customer lock-in that Microsoft has strived for in the past.

jman6495
December 10th, 2008, 03:10 PM
She Is Sooooo Closed Minded
WIndows Will Give Out There Software Like That ...
Hmmmmm.....

LISTEN NO THE FOLLOWING VIDEO FIRST THEN USE THE WORDS HERE INSTEAD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvanJYOGlus


Ther'le be Lots Of Happy Users Wait And See
No Costs To Pay For WIndows Wait And See
The Whitehouse Has Been Alerted
All The Streets have Been Deserted
When MS Finaly GIve Us WIndows Free
Yeah The World Will Be A Better Place To Be
Ice Caps Will Stop Melting Instantly
No More Famine Ridden Places
No More Flies On Childrens Faces
When MS Finaly GIve Us WIndows Free
We Will Finaly Get A Cure For Cancer Wait And See!
They'le Get Some Music Shows On MTV
New Orlands Will Get Residents
We'le get a Decent President (SPEAKING OF BUSH)
When MS Finaly GIve Us WIndows Free
North Koria Will Apise Us
Linsey Lohain Will Find Jesus
When MS Finaly GIve Us WIndows Free

DAMN BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH

Al-Kaida Will Lay Down There GUns And Flee
Your Wii-mote Wont Destroy Your new TV
Philladelphia Car With Gas Wont Take A Suitcase Full Of Cash
When MS Finaly GIve Us WIndows Free
You'le Never Have To Shannel Hop To See Rosie..
Fut Folks Will Stop Wearing Baby Tee's
Senators Wont Make Duty Calls
In Dirty Airport bathroom Stalls
When MS Finaly GIve Us WIndows Free
Yeah The World Will Be A Better Place To Be
No Costs To Pay For WIndows Wait And See
Micheal **** Will Stop Abusin'
Barry Bonz Will Stop The Juisin'
No Costs To Pay For WIndows Wait And See
No More Blogging From Wil Wheaton
No Jack Thompson Will Get Beaton
When MS Finaly GIve Us WIndows Free

COPYRIGHT JORDAN MARIS

m_l17
December 10th, 2008, 05:20 PM
WOW and she is a teacher :confused: she needs to go back to school.

MattBD
December 10th, 2008, 05:25 PM
This is almost unbelieveable. If I had kids, I wouldn't want them taught by that teacher.
Anyone else read Cory Doctorow's book Little Brother? There's a scene near the start where the protagonist is called in by his high school principal and accused of various crimes, most of which he hasn't done. This could almost be from that.
Absolute corker of a book, BTW, highly recommended.

ssam
December 10th, 2008, 05:33 PM
almost as good as the 'Centos hacked my website' story :-)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/24/tuttle_centos/

jpmelos
December 10th, 2008, 05:44 PM
That's... horrifying.

Especially because teachers does have influence in a kid's life. I was presented to Linux by a teacher in the 8th grade. And since then I have been using it, jumping from it to Windows and back to it until a few years ago I switched definitely to Linux.

I hope that kind of teacher is minority...

frankleeee
December 10th, 2008, 07:15 PM
All the arguments here against the teacher are seen from the Linux side of the street. I have never used anything but Linux myself so I am on that side to, BUT remember that this is a person who will be burned like a witch if she doesn't protect the kids. The teacher did not know what was on the confiscated discs. I always love one sided views and arguments by the teacher in her email and the majority of the posts in this thread.;)

jpmelos
December 10th, 2008, 08:02 PM
You know, you ARE right to some level.

BUT she should've made some research before public punishing the boy like she did, in front of his friends. Now we don't know, but the boy may be traumatized and may not want to use Linux again. She was stupid to some level, in the urge to "protect her kids".

dannytatom
December 10th, 2008, 08:41 PM
The teacher did not know what was on the confiscated discs.

According to the article, she did know what was on the disc, and had used linux in her college years.

frankleeee
December 10th, 2008, 08:47 PM
You know, you ARE right to some level.

BUT she should've made some research before public punishing the boy like she did, in front of his friends. Now we don't know, but the boy may be traumatized and may not want to use Linux again. She was stupid to some level, in the urge to "protect her kids".

I agree partially with what you say in the context of protecting the young boy. Unfortunately we don't know what actually happened or the age of the children, the teacher states she had a conference with the child we don't know what happened there either. I will conjecture that if this young boy already had a Linux distro installed that it was probably known by his parents and all involved know the legal ramifications. Since the age of the children is a unknown here I think the teacher is probably bound by rules within the education system to confiscate the discs. It is unfortunate that the general public isn't more informed about free OS, most of the people I talk to have a view that is correlation and inaccurate at the least. The teacher posting on the blog without investigating more is I think personally a attempt to protect the children however faulty in the nature of it's perception of Linux distros'

Yownanymous
December 10th, 2008, 08:50 PM
Made me whisper a certain word beginning with f...

"No software is free."

I can see why so many people are being ripped off now...

Carnival show?!? BSODs, viruses and error messages are the real carnival show!!!

Also, I'm going to see the local education authority and my school rector (headmaster) about the advantages of Linux rather than have them ripped off.

frankleeee
December 10th, 2008, 08:53 PM
According to the article, she did know what was on the disc, and had used linux in her college years.

Yes I read that portion, but having used a program in the past doesn't mean she new what was on those discs. Imagine that even if the discs were a non corrupted download a child going home and installing without parental permission and not knowing how to do it and messing up the family computer. This child would have been best in providing the links to information on the web about Linux and ISOs and letting the other children check in with the parental units.

dannytatom
December 10th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Yes I read that portion, but having used a program in the past doesn't mean she new what was on those discs. Imagine that even if the discs were a non corrupted download a child going home and installing without parental permission and not knowing how to do it and messing up the family computer. This child would have been best in providing the links to information on the web about Linux and ISOs and letting the other children check in with the parental units.

Ah, I gotcha. I thought you meant she was completely oblivious to what was on the discs. You bring up a good point, though.

jenkinbr
December 10th, 2008, 09:00 PM
Poor kids being forced to use Microsoft

Poor teachers being sucked in to the MS Brainwashing machine...

I like the college I go to - IT actually ecourages FOSS for users even though they still run windows on most of the machines.

Giant Speck
December 10th, 2008, 09:04 PM
Yes I read that portion, but having used a program in the past doesn't mean she new what was on those discs. Imagine that even if the discs were a non corrupted download a child going home and installing without parental permission and not knowing how to do it and messing up the family computer. This child would have been best in providing the links to information on the web about Linux and ISOs and letting the other children check in with the parental units.

That is a very good and strong point you have there.

If she had let the students go home with the discs and the children installed them on their home computers and somehow damaged their computers, I doubt the parents wouldn't just be angry with the kid who passed out the discs, or the parents of said kid. They'd be angry with the teacher for letting it happen in her classroom.

frankleeee
December 10th, 2008, 09:09 PM
Poor kids being forced to use Microsoft

Poor teachers being sucked in to the MS Brainwashing machine...

I like the college I go to - IT actually encourages FOSS for users even though they still run windows on most of the machines.

The college I attend has several Linux labs and a mirror I have actually run into several dual-booters' randomly. I purchased my 1st computer at the original Free Geek recyclers/thrift-store 30$ a pretty good deal, with Dapper installed.
http://freegeek.org/
I think everybody in this thread has the best intentions of protecting the children, it is how you go about it in general that brings in so many variables perceived differently by everybody that it is difficult to please everybody.

jpmelos
December 10th, 2008, 09:11 PM
Indeed a point there.

I hope that, in the conference, everything got clarified for the parents, the teacher and most importantly the kid.

lukjad
December 10th, 2008, 09:11 PM
10 to one this is a joke, and I haven't even read it yet. :D

Giant Speck
December 10th, 2008, 09:18 PM
10 to one this is a joke, and I haven't even read it yet. :D

That's not possible. You see, the internet is serious business.

will1911a1
December 10th, 2008, 09:26 PM
That's not possible. You see, the internet is serious business.

Extremely serious.

An amusing read nonetheless. :)

aysiu
December 10th, 2008, 09:59 PM
I'm not convinced the email is real. I wouldn't put it past Helios to make it up just to get people riled up in support of his efforts.

His heart is in the right place, but he goes a little overboard sometimes and almost makes a religion out of Linux evangelism. It's scary.

Giant Speck
December 10th, 2008, 10:13 PM
I'm not convinced the email is real. I wouldn't put it past Helios to make it up just to get people riled up in support of his efforts.

His heart is in the right place, but he goes a little overboard sometimes and almost makes a religion out of Linux evangelism. It's scary.

The sad thing is that whether it is real or not, he's still benefiting from it. The only purpose of things like this is to get people angry.

aysiu
December 10th, 2008, 10:23 PM
I also don't know how polite it is to publish (without prior consent) emails someone sends you, especially for the purposes of public ridicule.

ARhere
December 10th, 2008, 10:24 PM
just....wow.

The really sad thing is her opinion is probably the majority view.

The year of the Linux desktop will come..... very painfully!

Where the hell is Aysiu's comments on this one!
EDIT: Darn it, two seconds too late!

-AR

aysiu
December 10th, 2008, 10:26 PM
just....wow.

The really sad thing is her opinion is probably the majority view.

The year of the Linux desktop will come..... very painfully!

Where the hell is Asyu's comments on this one!

-AR
I commented that I'm not sure the email is real.

If it is real, she is well-intentioned but misguided. The appropriate action here would be to educate her on the legality of the matter and in a non-confrontational way introduce her to open source software.

The inappropriate action would be to publish her email for public ridicule to stoke the fires of anti-teacher hate and self-righteous Linux user anger.

WinterMadness
December 10th, 2008, 10:27 PM
Intentional ignorance.

jenkinbr
December 10th, 2008, 10:33 PM
I also don't know how polite it is to publish (without prior consent) emails someone sends you, especially for the purposes of public ridicule.
Or how elthical.

Oh, just look at that - the mod double-posted! j/k :lolflag:
EDIT: Darn, it was fixed. :(

frankleeee
December 10th, 2008, 10:39 PM
Or how ethical.

Oh, just look at that - the mod double-posted! j/k :lolflag:

I had never heard of this Helios, and now as has been suggested, any trust in the intentions would be misguided. ;)

zmjjmz
December 10th, 2008, 10:41 PM
Hm, I'm suspect of Kenny here. If you read penguinpetes like I do I think you'll agree to a point that not everything Kenny says is to be believed.
In addition, his accusation of the Union supporting this is utter bullcrap. I've had a lot of teachers who didn't mind my Linux computer or using Linux in school (one teacher did ask me not to use it, but that was for understandable security reasons [It gives me unlimited access to the HDD]).

Yownanymous
December 10th, 2008, 10:54 PM
one teacher did ask me not to use it, but that was for understandable security reasons [It gives me unlimited access to the HDD]).

Should have replaced all the backgrounds with the text "No homework for the next year and I'll reinstate your wallpapers.":lolflag:

(That's not to be taken seriously)

Prefix100
December 10th, 2008, 11:07 PM
I would have raged so hard if I was that kid.

Twitch6000
December 10th, 2008, 11:10 PM
I find this funny on so many levels...

The teacher thinks nothing in the software world is free yet IE itself is free....(that is about the only software Microsoft has made that is free though)

Then we have Firefox ofcourse.

We also have Office tools such as Open Office,AbiWord, and many others.

For Graphics two come quickly to mind Paint.Net and Gimp.

So yeah I think all this shows is the teacher is scared of something that is not Microsoft.

It reminds me of my mother(sadly...) due to my mom always saying if it isn't free it isn't worth using.

Ofcourse I am using Linux, My brother is using Linux,and I have gotten my grandparents to use alot of FOSS software :).

jenkinbr
December 10th, 2008, 11:16 PM
exept that IE isn't open source, which I have now come to associate with 'free software'. Free as in IE free is now 'freeware' to me.

lukjad
December 10th, 2008, 11:17 PM
That's not possible. You see, the internet is serious business.
Well, I guess in this case, it wasn't. Most posts about Linux being stupid end up to be jokes.

Changturkey
December 10th, 2008, 11:19 PM
Raaggeeeeee.

Giant Speck
December 10th, 2008, 11:21 PM
Well, I guess in this case, it wasn't. Most posts about Linux being stupid end up to be jokes.

Can't jokes be sarcastic? Because I believe that is what I was going for in my last post...

earthpigg
December 10th, 2008, 11:54 PM
I also don't know how polite it is to publish (without prior consent) emails someone sends you, especially for the purposes of public ridicule.

i also don't know how polite it is to steal compact discs from children (without any justification), especially if it is for no purpose at all.

(unless we want to consider "wonton ignorance" a purpose? this teacher must know that free-as-in-beer things like firefox, winamp, friggin hotmail, etc, exist.)

will1911a1
December 11th, 2008, 12:00 AM
I'm not convinced the email is real. I wouldn't put it past Helios to make it up just to get people riled up in support of his efforts.


The more I read it the more I'm convinced that it's not real at all.

We're supposed to believe that this teacher took the time to track Helios down and then make legal threats? Also, she tried Linux in college but doesn't know that it's free?

Sorry, this stinks of troll.

szymon_g
December 11th, 2008, 12:01 AM
I think its fake.
4/10 after all

frankleeee
December 11th, 2008, 12:01 AM
i also don't know how polite it is to steal compact discs from children (without any justification), especially if it is for no purpose at all.

(unless we want to consider "wonton ignorance" a purpose? this teacher must know that free-as-in-beer things like firefox, winamp, friggin hotmail, etc, exist.)

In a school situation I suspect there are rules on a kid just handing out CDs in class to other kids, this was not theft, have you read all the posts here, and considered the possible ramifications.

aysiu
December 11th, 2008, 12:05 AM
The more I read it the more I'm convinced that it's not real at all.

We're supposed to believe that this teacher took the time to track Helios down and then make legal threats? Also, she tried Linux in college but doesn't know that it's free?

Sorry, this stinks of troll.
I can tell you right now, having taught in both public and private schools, that teachers do not have the time or energy to write long emails to random people arguing against free software. Even teachers who are Microsoft shills will propagandize only during class time or lunch breaks with colleagues or students. It looks ultra-fake, all the way down to the misspelling of the word conference, just so people can take more jabs at this supposed teacher.

Talk about straw man (or straw teacher, in this case).

At first, I was a big fan of Helios, but after the Tux500 fiasco, I don't really trust much at all of anything he writes.

Grant A.
December 11th, 2008, 12:07 AM
I can tell you right now, having taught in both public and private schools, that teachers do not have the time or energy to write long emails to random people arguing against free software. Even teachers who are Microsoft shills will propagandize only during class time or lunch breaks with colleagues or students. It looks ultra-fake, all the way down to the misspelling of the word conference, just so people can take more jabs at this supposed teacher.

Talk about straw man (or straw teacher, in this case).

At first, I was a big fan of Helios, but after the Tux500 fiasco, I don't really trust much at all of anything he writes.

Tux500?

will1911a1
December 11th, 2008, 12:09 AM
I can tell you right now, having taught in both public and private schools, that teachers do not have the time or energy to write long emails to random people arguing against free software.

Exactly. I have taught, my parents taught, my wife has taught, and close friends of mine have taught, and the notion that she would devote the time and energy to this is just silly.

I'd like to point out that our buddy Ken mispelled "formerly" as well.



A dedicated School Teacher would recognize that fact and lobby for the change to Free Open Source Software and let the money formally spent on MS bindware be used on our kids.

kevin11951
December 11th, 2008, 12:09 AM
The most disturbing part of this resides in the fact that the AISD purchases millions of dollars of Microsoft Software in a year's time when that money could be better spent on educating our children.

Thats My School District!!!

iKonaK
December 11th, 2008, 12:11 AM
No one teaches the fundamentals anymore. You have to learn Windows instead of an operating system. You have to learn Word 2003 instead of a word processor. No wonder why IT staff shudder at the thought of having to train office monkeys whenever there is an upgrade to MS Office...
+1
I feel the same way, no one teaches fundamentals to end users, if someone want more must personally look for it....:mad:

Therion
December 11th, 2008, 12:11 AM
Tux500?
Yes, Tux500 (http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=tux500_news_history&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1).

slick666
December 11th, 2008, 12:28 AM
This underscores the importance of explaining what "free" software is and what free means. I've changed the the way I explain it to avoid the word free because too many trip over it.

zmjjmz
December 11th, 2008, 12:50 AM
Thats My School District!!!

Really? Could you confirm the story to be true if it is?

jacob01
December 11th, 2008, 12:54 AM
this kinda makes me mad. people need to have a more open mind. maybe he is right maybe the kid shouldn't have been doing that during class but accusing some one of some copy right infringement when you have no idea what the law is thats pretty bad, especially when it is soo easy to research this and find that it is developed under the gnu. To think these are the people who have the power to teach kids, its scary.

"I am sure if you contacted Microsoft, they would be more than happy to supply you with copies of an older verison of Windows"

how does that help the kids anyway, learning an out of date windows operating system? talk about holding kids back.

Giant Speck
December 11th, 2008, 01:05 AM
i also don't know how polite it is to steal compact discs from children (without any justification), especially if it is for no purpose at all.

(unless we want to consider "wonton ignorance" a purpose? this teacher must know that free-as-in-beer things like firefox, winamp, friggin hotmail, etc, exist.)

I wouldn't want to be an administrator of that school district if the kids all went home with these discs and ruined their family computers because they didn't know what they were doing. I wouldn't want to have to get phone call after phone call from enraged parents because a teacher allowed a student to pass around discs in her classroom.

will1911a1
December 11th, 2008, 01:24 AM
this kinda makes me mad.

One of the reasons I strongly suspect this to be fake is that it seems to be worded with the INTENT to make people mad.

Atzu
December 11th, 2008, 01:32 AM
"No software is free and spreading that misconception is harmful."

Didn't know some now days teachers are so .... stupid? Someone need call a "confrence" with that teacher.

earthpigg
December 11th, 2008, 01:39 AM
I wouldn't want to be an administrator of that school district if the kids all went home with these discs and ruined their family computers because they didn't know what they were doing. I wouldn't want to have to get phone call after phone call from enraged parents because a teacher allowed a student to pass around discs in her classroom.

drinking soda ignorantly can take years off of a childs life, but plenty of schools still have soda machines in every hallway.

address the ignorance, not its potential symptoms.

magmon
December 11th, 2008, 01:45 AM
WTF, That is a perfect example of a teacher who should be immediately fired. Personally, I think the guys course of action is perfect. Take her slanderous accusitions to the boss xD.
As for her spelling, I know alot of words, just not how to spell them. But, Im a student... Not a (bad) teacher xD

aysiu
December 11th, 2008, 01:47 AM
drinking soda ignorantly can take years off of a childs life, but plenty of schools still have soda machines in every hallway.

address the ignorance, not its potential symptoms.
But parents won't see the effects of "drinking soda ignorantly" for decades... or possibly never.

If the kids don't know what they're doing with the discs and accidentally erase Windows in many homes in the evening, the parents will notice right away, and not be happy about it.

aysiu
December 11th, 2008, 01:47 AM
drinking soda ignorantly can take years off of a childs life, but plenty of schools still have soda machines in every hallway.

address the ignorance, not its potential symptoms.
But parents won't see the effects of "drinking soda ignorantly" for decades... or possibly never.

If the kids don't know what they're doing with the discs and accidentally erase Windows in many homes in the evening, the parents will notice right away, and not be happy about it.

earthpigg
December 11th, 2008, 02:01 AM
what kids do at home is the pervue of parents, not school administrators.

if your child tried to 'upgrade' your dinner table without asking by attempting to sand it down and restain it and failed miserably... do you blame the shop teacher or the kid?

or do you blame the sandpaper??

im suprised you folks are advocating banning linux cd's from schools...

zmjjmz
December 11th, 2008, 02:06 AM
I honestly think that this fear that kids will destroy their family computers comes from not really knowing what this kid was advocating.
What if he was handing out discs to be used with Wubi?

Giant Speck
December 11th, 2008, 02:19 AM
what kids do at home is the pervue of parents, not school administrators.

You probably think all parents take responsibility for the actions of their children, too, don't you? I can assure you that there are a lot of parents that would rather blame the school system than their own child.


if your child tried to 'upgrade' your dinner table without asking by attempting to sand it down and restain it and failed miserably... do you blame the shop teacher or the kid?

or do you blame the sandpaper??

Before I go any further, this is a horrible analogy. What you described is far less likely to happen then some child crashing their computer because he got a disc from a friend. And your analogy would only be valid if the teacher had handed out the discs herself, which she didn't.



im suprised you folks are advocating banning linux cd's from schools...

Yeah. Because we disagree with your anger toward a stupid e-mail, which is probably fake anyway, it definitely means we want Linux banned from schools.

wolfen69
December 11th, 2008, 03:02 AM
The more I read it the more I'm convinced that it's not real at all.

We're supposed to believe that this teacher took the time to track Helios down and then make legal threats? Also, she tried Linux in college but doesn't know that it's free?

Sorry, this stinks of troll.

i could be wrong, but i think helios is involved with the school somehow. how else would the teacher know him? perhaps one of his kids goes there?

wolfen69
December 11th, 2008, 03:07 AM
If the kids don't know what they're doing with the discs and accidentally erase Windows in many homes in the evening, the parents will notice right away, and not be happy about it.

it comes down to teaching your kid what is right and what is wrong. most kids i know have already "effectively wiped out" their parents computer already, in the form of endless game downloading, viruses, spyware, trojans and such. to the point where it is basically useless.

it is up to the parents to monitor what the kids do on their computers. everyone has a right to pass out linux cd's. regardless of age.

EdThaSlayer
December 11th, 2008, 04:11 AM
I think Windows holds our kids back. Windows has stupidified society to such a level that they don't even know how to take a screenshot. Well, thats my opinion, oh, and it's also not opensource(being a big fan of the open nature of knowledge and code...).

On the other hand, it has simplified many things that many of us don't have the time to delve in. Imagine compiling a computer game. Wouldn't that well-make things worse?

cardinals_fan
December 11th, 2008, 04:14 AM
I think the "teacher" is probably reading this right now and laughing uproariously ;)

wolfen69
December 11th, 2008, 04:20 AM
I think Windows holds our kids back. Windows has stupidified society to such a level that they don't even know how to take a screenshot. Well, thats my opinion, oh, and it's also not opensource(being a big fan of the open nature of knowledge and code...).

exactly. i think people should be taught all operating systems. then they can make an educated decision about what they want to use. but to force feed windows and say linux and open source is wrong, is well, wrong. that teacher should be taught a lesson, whatever that may be.

jenkinbr
December 11th, 2008, 04:22 AM
i could be wrong, but i think helios is involved with the school somehow. how else would the teacher know him? perhaps one of his kids goes there?

That was what I got out of it too. I read the thing and assumed that, if it were real, that the poor child that had his discs stolen was probably the son of Helios himself.

jenkinbr
December 11th, 2008, 04:23 AM
exactly. i think people should be taught all operating systems. then they can make an educated decision about what they want to use. but to force feed windows and say linux and open source is wrong, is well, wrong. that teacher should be taught a lesson, whatever that may be.

That would significantly increase the GNU/Linux market share, I would think..

zmjjmz
December 11th, 2008, 04:35 AM
If you guys read the e-mail it's apparent that the kid (Aaron) was working with Ken and that he told the teacher who told him to give out the discs under interrogation <strike> at a secret CIA prison </strike>.

wolfen69
December 11th, 2008, 04:44 AM
That would significantly increase the GNU/Linux market share, I would think..

exactly! :guitar: if "fresh" minds are given a choice, steve ballmer better start looking for a new job.

magmon
December 11th, 2008, 05:08 AM
Well now.. What choices we make ourselves and what actions are accepted are two different things. I think that makes a huge impact on what some people use. If no one else uses it, or if they will be made fun of or anything else, regardless of whether they like it, he/she will not use it.

cardinals_fan
December 11th, 2008, 05:11 AM
exactly. i think people should be taught all operating systems. then they can make an educated decision about what they want to use. but to force feed windows and say linux and open source is wrong, is well, wrong. that teacher should be taught a lesson, whatever that may be.
I think students should be given a very inexpensive laptop at the start of their school careers (kindergarten) with a designed-for-children OS (chosen based off competitive bids and educational effectiveness in testing). As they mature, they can choose what OS they install on the laptop. All it has to do is edit HTML, for documents.

zmjjmz
December 11th, 2008, 05:33 AM
I think students should be given a very inexpensive laptop at the start of their school careers (kindergarten) with a designed-for-children OS (chosen based off competitive bids and educational effectiveness in testing). As they mature, they can choose what OS they install on the laptop. All it has to do is edit HTML, for documents.

Suggest it to Senator Obama.

kaldor
December 11th, 2008, 05:34 AM
Hahaha, wow.

See this is the complete opposite of a teacher I have for Russian class. Instead of getting angry and such about "illegal" activity, she has me order a class set of Ubuntu 8.10 discs from shipit.

Giant Speck
December 11th, 2008, 05:40 AM
I think students should be given a very inexpensive laptop at the start of their school careers (kindergarten) with a designed-for-children OS (chosen based off competitive bids and educational effectiveness in testing). As they mature, they can choose what OS they install on the laptop. All it has to do is edit HTML, for documents.

Regardless of the individual price of each laptop, that would add up to an enormous amount of money. And in today's economy, giving a laptop to every child in America is just not feasible.

You also have to take into effect that those laptops are going to need replaced or upgraded every few years, which only adds to the cost.

Your idea is well-intentioned, albeit (unfortunately) unrealistic.

wolfen69
December 11th, 2008, 05:45 AM
Hahaha, wow.

See this is the complete opposite of a teacher I have for Russian class. Instead of getting angry and such about "illegal" activity, she has me order a class set of Ubuntu 8.10 discs from shipit.

nice. my kind of teacher.

cardinals_fan
December 11th, 2008, 05:57 AM
Regardless of the individual price of each laptop, that would add up to an enormous amount of money. And in today's economy, giving a laptop to every child in America is just not feasible.

You also have to take into effect that those laptops are going to need replaced or upgraded every few years, which only adds to the cost.

Your idea is well-intentioned, albeit (unfortunately) unrealistic.
I'm not sure how much it would really cost. Most of the costs of worksheets could be defrayed by web-based systems. Some textbooks could also be eliminated. While I do not support this part, it's also true that teachers could be poorer-trained, letting the computer do the word. I don't see why upgrades would be needed.

I'll be the first to admit that my idea, especially in its current poorly-worded form, is a bit unrealistic. However, so is the concept of a teacher with enough training to teach all students about all major operating systems at every school, which would also eat up classtime.

magmon
December 11th, 2008, 06:05 AM
Why not buy them obsolite computers in decent condition for CHEAP (20-100 bucks each, I would imagine), and install puppy or another small disto on them? Text books are 60 bucks each, so we COULD save money in the long run.

Giant Speck
December 11th, 2008, 06:08 AM
Why not buy them obsolite computers in decent condition for CHEAP (20-100 bucks each, I would imagine), and install puppy or another small disto on them? Text books are 60 bucks each, so we COULD save money in the long run.

The reason those obsolete computers cost so low is because they aren't manufactured anymore. There aren't enough of them to go to every child in the country. They'd have to start manufacturing them again, which could drive the price back up.

I'm all for people donating computers to schools though.

I think children should have exposure to computers in schools regardless of the operating system.

wolfen69
December 11th, 2008, 06:11 AM
Why not buy them obsolite computers in decent condition for CHEAP (20-100 bucks each, I would imagine), and install puppy or another small disto on them? Text books are 60 bucks each, so we COULD save money in the long run.

you are wise, grasshopper.

grazed
December 11th, 2008, 06:42 AM
This was found to be fiction, a reworded letter, originally about drugs.

warbread
December 11th, 2008, 12:02 PM
This was found to be fiction, a reworded letter, originally about drugs.

Most interesting. Where'd you read that?

sdowney717
December 11th, 2008, 01:30 PM
from the article


I don't know when you attended college Karen but the Linux of even two years ago pales in feature and ability to what there is available now...and that in turn will pale in a year's time.

so true! MS should be in fear for what linux will someday become.
TO me though, Linux forging ahead forces the entire computer industry to get better.

Dragonbite
December 11th, 2008, 03:57 PM
http://austinist.com/2008/12/10/aisd_teacher_throws_fit_over_studen.php



In an age where Windows and OS X reign supreme, it's no wonder that a local AISD middle school teacher became enraged after discovering one of her students distributing what she believed to be bootlegged copies of an operating system in class.

While teacher "Karen" was clearly operating under the assumption that she'd scored a minor victory for the Microsofts and other downtrodden software giants of the world, the particular operating system that she ended up disciplining her student for was a freely distributable version of Linux.

To wit, the following is part of an email that the teacher sent to the person who originally provided said Linux to the student (bolding added by us for emphasis):


...observed one of my students with a group of other children gathered around his laptop. Upon looking at his computer, I saw he was giving a demonstration of some sort. The student was showing the ability of the laptop and handing out Linux disks. After confiscating the disks I called a confrence [sic] with the student and that is how I came to discover you and your organization.

Mr. Starks, I am sure you strongly believe in what you are doing but I cannot either support your efforts or allow them to happen in my classroom. At this point, I am not sure what you are doing is legal. No software is free and spreading that misconception is harmful.

These children look up to adults for guidance and discipline. I will research this as time allows and I want to assure you, if you are doing anything illegal, I will pursue charges as the law allows. Mr. Starks, I along with many others tried Linux during college and I assure you, the claims you make are grossly over-stated and hinge on falsehoods. I admire your attempts in getting computers in the hands of disadvantaged people but putting linux on these machines is holding our kids back.

This is a world where Windows runs on virtually every computer, and putting on a carnival show for an operating system is not helping these children at all.

What makes the story especially poignant, besides the teacher's disparagingly defeatist attitude, is that the copy of Linux was originally provided to this student courtesy of the Austin-based HeliOS Project, which builds and provides Linux computers to disadvantaged or "exceptionally promising" students. It seems that this kid was merely showing his friends, in an albeit super-nerdy fashion, that there existed an alternative to bloated and overpriced operating systems.

Starks responded on the HeliOS blog, saying:


And please...investigate to your heart's content. You are about to have your eyes opened, that is if you actually investigate anything at all. Linux is a free as-in-cost and free as-in-license operating system. It was designed specifically for those purposes. Linux is used to free people from Microsoft. The fact that you seem to believe that Microsoft is the end all and be-all is actually funny in a sad sort of way. Then again, being a good NEA member, you would spout the Union line. Microsoft has pumped tens of millions of dollars into your union. Of course you are going to "recommend" Microsoft Windows". To do otherwise would probably get you reprimanded at the least and fired at the worst. You are only doing what you've been instructed to do.

You've been trained well.

His full response, plus the ensuing comments storm, makes for prime reading. We're hoping that Miss Karen decides to abandon her quixotic quest to "pursue charges as the law allows," because doing otherwise will only subject this state's already-abysmal education system to further ridicule.

Sad. :cry: To subject the kids to that thinking.

The teacher could have instead use that as an opportunity to teach the kids to not give in to the "shiny" and "neat" marketing rather than taking them away from the kids and teaching them that they mean nothing!

4th guy
December 11th, 2008, 04:02 PM
It's been a hot topic on these boards recently.

technoshaun
December 11th, 2008, 04:03 PM
Quote "At this point, I am not sure what you are doing is legal. No software is free and spreading that misconception is harmful. These children look up to adults for guidance and discipline. I will research this as time allows and I want to assure you, if you are doing anything illegal, I will pursue charges as the law allows."

This one statement alone from the teacher sets the entire precedence of Ken's blog:

I have met Ken Starks and he is a nice guy. Committed and passionate about his cause, all while not being aggressive to others. He simply teaches those whom wish to learn.

Karen on the other hand, without hesitation, threatened Ken with the possibility of having charges filed against him for encouraging Aaron to follow the F/OSS philosophy, which is not, nor ever has been, illegal.

As far as defending her actions or reasons, no way.

She should have first contacted Ken in a much more congenial manner and inquired about Linux, its license and other things that may concern her but she has no right to attack him in the manner which she did without first properly investigating the issue she has.

Secondly whether or not she thought she was keeping kids from destroying their home computers (which I doubt she was even thinking about that) does not change the fact that nothing illegal was happening. Court precedence already exists that makes her even confiscating those CDs illegal. Aaron as a student of that school has every right to show off and distribute Linux to his friends. As long as he is not creating dissent among the other students that would cause a riot (somehow I just can't see giving away Linux System CD's doing that) then she has absolutely no right to stop him from doing so.

I am hoping that when Ken meets with her and the District Superintendent in January that she is forced to give a very public apology to Aaron for humiliating and chastising him without reason.

howefield
December 11th, 2008, 04:04 PM
This surely is a comedic device intended to distract during the holiday season. Can't be true....can it ?

logos34
December 11th, 2008, 04:16 PM
She sounds like some corporate robot--you'd think she was on MS payroll. Why the extreme reaction and legal threats? Maybe bad hair day...


This is a world where Windows runs on virtually every computer, and putting on a carnival show for an operating system is not helping these children at all

she obviously is completely ignorant of servers, and the many public institions in Europe and elsewhere that have switched to linux. Nor has she apparently heard anything about the OLPC project.

wmcbrine
December 11th, 2008, 05:06 PM
According to the article, she did know what was on the disc, and had used linux in her college years.That's the part that made it seem like a hoax to me. The rest was sadly plausible. But that line has the flavor of "I tried drugs in college"... and now grazed comes along and says that's exactly what it was, a reworked "drugs" letter. grazed, I believe you, but can provide a link or something?

grazed
December 11th, 2008, 05:26 PM
That's the part that made it seem like a hoax to me. The rest was sadly plausible. But that line has the flavor of "I tried drugs in college"... and now grazed comes along and says that's exactly what it was, a reworked "drugs" letter. grazed, I believe you, but can provide a link or something?

it may take me a while, this thing has been plastered over most of the forums i visit, i'll report back after i sort through my history. ;)

Dragonbite
December 11th, 2008, 05:59 PM
One piece in her defense.

Isn't it common practice for drug dealers to offer things for FREE just to get kids hooked?


If this is something prevalent in her area (or in her history such as while growing up even if she didn't partake) then seeing something going like this would be an instinctual "get it the hell away" and could explain some of her reaction.


Depending on her experiences I can see it override "logical" thinking.

grazed
December 11th, 2008, 06:17 PM
HOAX.

I, the great grazed, have cracked this. Quite easily I may add.

OK, here's the run down. Ken starks (the owner of that blog) lives in austin texas, you can find his name and address, along with his company (run in his home) in the white pages.

His zipcode: 78745 would render his child going to the following middleschool:

Bedichek Middle School6800 Bill Hughes Rd
Austin, TX 78745

And of course, No one by the name of Karen works there. You can search the site for staff and teachers here: http://www.austinisd.org/

CASE SOLVED.:guitar:

Edit: note that the email he posted had "AISD" next to her name, so it is 100% that it would have to be that school, and not private, catholic, etc.

Edit Edit: I was wrong. It very well might not be his son. =(

solitaire
December 11th, 2008, 06:34 PM
ERmmmm... Grazed?

Where did it say it was HIS son who the teacher was talking about?
it's more likely that the student in question told his teacher about Helios Linux OS.

After confiscating the disks I called a confrence with the student and that is how I came to discover you and your organization. Mr. Starks,

aysiu
December 11th, 2008, 06:35 PM
I also think it's a hoax, but your evidence isn't sufficient to prove it so.

The student in question is not supposed to be Ken Starks' biological child.

At this point, I don't know it's a hoax, and I'm still not even sure if the whole thing is completely made up, or if the incident actually occurred and just the "email" is made up. Or if the teacher did send an email, just not the one Ken Starks published to his blog.

grazed
December 11th, 2008, 06:40 PM
I also think it's a hoax, but your evidence isn't sufficient to prove it so.

The student in question is not supposed to be Ken Starks' biological child.

At this point, I don't know it's a hoax, and I'm still not even sure if the whole thing is completely made up, or if the incident actually occurred and just the "email" is made up. Or if the teacher did send an email, just not the one Ken Starks published to his blog.


ERmmmm... Grazed?

Where did it say it was HIS son who the teacher was talking about?
it's more likely that the student in question told his teacher about Helios Linux OS.

sorry to say, but it is apparently his kid, and it's his local school district. The guy lives smack dab in the middle of it. I guess you guys didn't read the full email, the teacher even addresses him as Mr. Starks a few times.

"I will research this as time allows and I want to assure you, if you are doing anything illegal, I will pursue charges as the law allows. Mr. Starks, I along with many others tried Linux during college and I assure you, the claims you make are grossly over-stated and hinge on falsehoods."

So, yes, my evidence is sufficient.

aysiu
December 11th, 2008, 06:45 PM
No, I read the whole email, including your excerpt, and it's pretty clear that's not his biological kid. "[T]hat boy" would be a pretty clear indication that Aaron is not his son. It doesn't say, "Now. You give my son his disks back." The "our children" bit refers to the general community, not to Ken and his wife.

Even though I disagree with your reasoning, I still I agree with you completely that this is most likely a hoax to get more traffic flowing to the Helios site and a PR move with the Linux community to make Ken Starks look like an open source hero.

grazed
December 11th, 2008, 06:49 PM
No, I read the whole email, including your excerpt, and it's pretty clear that's not his biological kid. "[T]hat boy" would be a pretty clear indication that Aaron is not his son. It doesn't say, "Now. You give my son his disks back." The "our children" bit refers to the general community, not to Ken and his wife.

Even though I disagree with your reasoning, I still I agree with you completely that this is most likely a hoax to get more traffic flowing to the Helios site and a PR move with the Linux community to make Ken Starks look like an open source hero.

Then why would a teacher email him about a student that wasn't his son? I mean, It would be one hell of a coincidence that this happened all of a few miles from his home, of all places in the world. Let alone how he said he would meet her.

I'll have to disagree with you here. =P

wolfen69
December 11th, 2008, 06:50 PM
who cares? does anyone actually think this is beyond the realm of possibility? i think this thread has run its course and should be closed.

wolfen69
December 11th, 2008, 06:51 PM
Then why would a teacher email him about a student that wasn't his son? I mean, It would be one hell of a coincidence that this happened all of a few miles from his home, of all places in the world. Let alone how he said he would meet her.

I'll have to disagree with you here. =P

you are right, and everyone else is wrong. OK? happy? i have asked for this thread to be closed.

aysiu
December 11th, 2008, 06:54 PM
Then why would a teacher email him about a student that wasn't his son? I mean, It would be one hell of a coincidence that this happened all of a few miles from his home, of all places in the world. Let alone how he said he would meet her.

I'll have to disagree with you here. =P
He clearly runs a program that trains kids to use Linux, and Aaron is part of this program. Aaron came to class armed with free Linux CDs Ken Starks gave him, and then proceeded to give those CDs to his classmates. This teacher supposedly (if we believe this email to be authentic) confiscated the CDs, interrogated Aaron about the source of the CDs, found out about Mr. Starks' "program," and then decided to contact him... if she ever did.

grazed
December 11th, 2008, 06:54 PM
He clearly runs a program that trains kids to use Linux, and Aaron is part of this program. Aaron came to class armed with free Linux CDs Ken Starks gave him, and then proceeded to give those CDs to his classmates. This teacher supposedly (if we believe this email to be authentic) confiscated the CDs, interrogated Aaron about the source of the CDs, found out about Mr. Starks' "program," and then decided to contact him... if she ever did.

Oh. Then my mistake. =/

I thought his program was for college students.

aysiu
December 11th, 2008, 06:56 PM
who cares? does anyone actually think this is beyond the realm of possibility? i think this thread has run its course and should be closed.
Fiction should not pass for fact, even if it is realistic fiction.

Is it possible a teacher would confiscate CDs from a student distributing Linux? Yes.

Do I believe that teacher wrote the email to Ken Starks? No.

Is it more likely that Ken Starks made up the email (either based on a real incident or completely out of thin air) to get attention to his blog and HeliOS project and/or to make himself look like a hero to the Linux community? I think so.

grazed
December 11th, 2008, 06:59 PM
you are right, and everyone else is wrong. OK? happy? i have asked for this thread to be closed.

There's no need to act rude. Nothing I said was even directed at you in the first place.

Why exactly do you feel a thread should be closed when you see fit?

KiwiNZ
December 11th, 2008, 07:33 PM
This thread has reached end of live

Closed in accordance with the forum banner

squeabs
December 12th, 2008, 04:59 AM
I recently found an article of interest on the web. Forgive me if it's already been posted and commented on, but I thought the ubuntu community would get a kick out of it.

Apparently, a student was showing off a linux computer in the classroom; teaching his fellow peers about the os, rather. The teacher overreacted and swiftly removed him, confiscating his cds. She threatened to call the police, taking any action necessary to bring down this "illegal" os, stating that there is no such thing as a free os and free software.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/242520/teacher-threatens-to-call-the-cops-over-linux.html

FoxIII
December 12th, 2008, 05:05 AM
oh that's brilliant! Thanks for showing us that! I haven't had quite the trouble in my college, but none of my tutors seem to have even the slightest scooby of what linux is! (these are trained professionals - don't try this at home). If it wasn't for the interest of the other students in my group, I think I would just cry with shame that such a wide-spread operating system is SO unheard of in an area such as computer technology!

And, just to note, as I am currently applying for computer courses (uk) there are NO degrees to be had for linux! Not happy. Not happy at all.

Giant Speck
December 12th, 2008, 05:08 AM
There is already a thread about it.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1007071

And it's been locked.

squeabs
December 12th, 2008, 05:11 AM
There are more people out there than you'd think that don't have a clue what linux is. Conversations with co-workers and computers usually go as:
"What else is there to use?
How can you use a computer and not have windows on it?
What is linux? Is it a game?"
My favorite is the people who don't even know what there computer uses as an os. They just know it works, but for some reason they keep getting pop ups and links to nasty places. That's when I tell them they probably have windows.

Another thread that's been locked. Ok.

WaeV
December 12th, 2008, 05:27 AM
Yeah, I always get annoyed when people say things like:


"What's the point of WINE? You need a copy of windows to use it anyways."

When they refer to internet explorer as "The Internet." Ex: "The Internet closed on me," or "Open another Internet."

Them: "OMG my PC is running so slow, I think I have a virus"
Me: "How long has it been since you reinstalled Windows, and what security programs do you run?"
Them: "What do you mean reinstall? I've had my PC for five years. I run Zonealarm, MacAfee, Spybot Search and Destroy, Registry Cleaner, Avast! Antivirus, Puppy Popup blocker / firewall combo, the free antivirus software that the internet company gave me, google popup blocker and anti-phishing, Yahoo popup-blcoker and anti-phishing, and Auto-Update. Can you fix it?"
Me: /facepalm

TBOL3
December 12th, 2008, 05:32 AM
You know, all of my friends know about linux. But then again, they know it as 'that thing the nerdy person does', which is really sad, because we are all nerds (very big nerds).

WaeV
December 12th, 2008, 05:37 AM
Same, sorta. One of my friends is like 'I already own Windows, and it works', and another is a guildmaster in WoW, so it's absolutely critical that WoW and Vent work flawlessly.

I told the latter about my getting 2x fps in WoW, and he was pretty interested. One particular feature he enjoys is that he can plug his speakers in the audio out jack and hear the game only through them, then plug in his USB headset and hear vent only through those.

Neither sees linux as having anything they want / need that they don't have, with the possible exception of increased fps in one game.

PartisanEntity
December 12th, 2008, 11:41 AM
I'm not convinced the email is real. I wouldn't put it past Helios to make it up just to get people riled up in support of his efforts.

His heart is in the right place, but he goes a little overboard sometimes and almost makes a religion out of Linux evangelism. It's scary.

I too am not convinced that the email is real.

jimbob
December 12th, 2008, 02:28 PM
My daughter, who is a computer teacher herself and has all her classroom computers set up to dual boot XP and Ubuntu, ran across this post on an internet forum.


http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=708638&hl=

kpkeerthi
December 12th, 2008, 02:37 PM
Who is Mr. Starks?

EDIT: Found it. Sorry.

jimbob
December 12th, 2008, 02:39 PM
Not sure. I just received the email this AM and haven't had time yet to probe into that web site.

howefield
December 12th, 2008, 02:40 PM
Don't believe everything you read, :lolflag:

jpmelos
December 12th, 2008, 02:42 PM
It has been discussed for a while now.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1007071

:D

will1911a1
December 12th, 2008, 03:00 PM
Already been discussed and had a topic locked on the matter.

The authenticity of that letter has been disputed and plenty of folks have raged over it anyway.

Sef
December 12th, 2008, 03:44 PM
Closed.

wolfen69
December 13th, 2008, 08:12 AM
http://www.contractoruk.com/news/004117.html



When Austin-based Linux distributor Ken Starks received an email from a local teacher suggesting he was breaking the law for handing out free copies of Linux to local schoolchildren, and threatening legal action, he could have been forgiven for thinking it was a hoax.

The teacher, only identified as “Karen”, wrote that she “observed one of my students with a group of other children gathered around his laptop. Upon looking at his computer, I saw he was giving a demonstration of some sort. The student was showing the ability of the laptop and handing out Linux disks [sic].”

Karen then confiscated the discs and confronted the student, who pointed out that there was nothing illegal about handing out copies of Linux. But Karen didn’t believe this.

“No software is free,” she ranted, “and spreading that misconception is harmful.” She continued: “I will research this as time allows and I want to assure you, if you are doing anything illegal, I will pursue charges as the law allows.”

Later in her lengthy email, Karen appeared to have confused Linux with a type of illegal narcotic: “Mr. Starks, I along with many others tried Linux during college and I assure you, the claims you make are grossly over-stated and hinge on falsehood.”

Whatever it was Karen smoked in college, it seems to have given her a rose-tinted view of the world of commercial software, writing: “I am sure if you contacted Microsoft, they would be more than happy to supply you with copies of an older verison[sic] of Windows and that way, your computers would actually be of service to those receiving them."

Starks, whose HeliOS Project gives free Linux-based computers out to disadvantaged and promising children, wasn’t going to let the issue lie at that. In a blistering email riposte, which he published on his blog, he wrote: “First off, if there was even the slightest chance that I was doing something illegal, it would not have been done. To think that I would involve my kids in my "illegal" activities is an insult far beyond outrage. You should be ashamed of yourself for putting into print such none sense [sic].”

“And please...investigate to your heart's content. You are about to have your eyes opened, that is if you actually investigate anything at all. Linux is a free as-in-cost and free as-in-license operating system. It was designed specifically for those purposes. Linux is used to free people from Microsoft. The fact that you seem to believe that Microsoft is the end all and be-all is actually funny in a sad sort of way.”

The string of derisory comments aimed at Karen by blog readers was predictable, and the attempts by a few self-appointed Linux vigilantes to work out and post the full identity of the teacher online were depressing in equal measure.

However, it seems that Karen may not be an entirely lost cause. Twitter updates on his blog yesterday indicated that Karen had subsequently called him, and after 45 minutes of explaining Linux and free/open source software, “apologies flowed, she is in awe of the Linux/FOSS Community”. A civil lawsuit Karen’s colleagues had talked her into launching against Starks is now on hold, and he is installing Linux on her computer tomorrow.
Can we expect a New Year engagement? Watch this space.

Graham Taylor


Dec 12, 2008


i guess there is hope for some people. :p

handy
December 13th, 2008, 08:45 AM
& they all lived happily ever after... :lolflag:

frankleeee
December 13th, 2008, 09:11 AM
& they all lived happily ever after... :lolflag:

Like all myth there was a hero, although I'm not sure who it is. ;)

Giant Speck
December 13th, 2008, 09:18 AM
Wow. I didn't know the story had a sequel. How... predictable, especially the part where she is in "awe" about Linux and FOSS.


Give me a break. :roll:

K.Mandla
December 13th, 2008, 11:33 AM
How... predictable, especially the part where she is in "awe" about Linux and FOSS.


Give me a break. :roll:
Me too. I still really have doubts about this. Has anyone ever substantiated that e-mail or phone call? Is there any outside confirmation of these exchanges?

The journalist in me thinks this is all very convenient.

hanzomon4
December 13th, 2008, 02:25 PM
No one could be that dumb.... oh wait!

Sealbhach
December 13th, 2008, 02:54 PM
There's more on this in Slashdot (http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/12/1758205), and one thing that caught my eye was one of the comments following the article:


Yes I don't think the blogger was being too harsh (remember the teacher threatened to SUE him - an attack without merit), especially when you read what OTHER teachers have posted. Like this one:

I am a school teacher in the Austin Independent School District and while I don't know any "Karen", I am intimately familiar with the rhetoric and attitude. The author here is uncomfortably close to knowing what he's talking about when he speaks of the NEA. We are "encouraged strongly" to discourage the use of anything other than Microsoft products in the school district and between the Tech folks fearing for their jobs and the ignorance of all the "Karens" I deal with daily, it's a wonder the boy wasn't publicly flogged.

I have been trying to get our school district to use Linux for 3 years and I've been told that I am to desist with this quest if I want to keep my job.

Those who questioned the email's authenticity owe him(?) an apology. Of course as I peruse the comments of the sort, I note with a wry smile that you don't have the courage to sign your name to it.


.

inxygnuu
December 13th, 2008, 03:03 PM
that is kinda sad... Just think of a would without free and open-source software... it makes me shiver...8-[8-[8-[

sdowney717
December 13th, 2008, 03:13 PM
he is installing Linux on her computer tomorrow

I hope it works. If it poops out on the install, then she might shoot him.

zekopeko
December 13th, 2008, 03:24 PM
here is the follow up to the first blog post:
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/character-assasinations-aint-us.html

note that the teacher didn't know about FOSS but here motivations were pure trying to protect the students from something she thought was illegal.

lukjad
December 13th, 2008, 03:28 PM
I don't know if I believe this anymore.

Why is it that almost every post about linux=bad is then called out later as satire or a joke. This just wraps up too nicely. :P

Newuser1111
December 13th, 2008, 03:40 PM
Why is it that almost every post about linux=bad is then called out later as satire or a joke. This just wraps up too nicely. :PBecause they will not post people hating Linux and not liking it later as news.
If they did, there could be a lot more.

lukjad
December 13th, 2008, 03:51 PM
Man, I want to cry now!

This story is a soap opera!

lukjad
December 13th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Double post

aysiu
December 13th, 2008, 04:39 PM
I'm even more convinced this is a hoax, either in part or in whole.

And the fact that Ken Starks won't reveal to reporters the identity of the teacher supports the hoax theory even more. He tries to make it sound all noble (I'm protecting her from harassment...), but he doesn't have to reveal her identity to the whole world. Reporters can have stipulations of not revealing sources, as long as someone besides Ken Starks is able to verify this soap opera actually occurred.

I can't believe people are reporting this as if it's news, when it really looks like a Stephen Glass New Republic story.

Unfortunately, the usually skeptical Linux communities seem to have gotten a soft spot for a feel-good Linux conversion story.

lukjad
December 13th, 2008, 04:52 PM
This is hard to swallow. I refuse to believe it. If it is true, then there is one less person annoying "Karen". If it isn't, then I won't lose any sleep over a lie.

I really have to stop reading flamebait posts. At least I didn't respond to the Blog.

EdThaSlayer
December 13th, 2008, 05:52 PM
A happy ending, for a terrible beginning. :KS
Wonder when we see that teacher in the forums. ):P

damis648
December 13th, 2008, 06:02 PM
I really honestly for the first time in my life, I have no comment. Whether it is true or not, I don't know, but if it is untrue, that is pretty sad.

Sand & Mercury
December 13th, 2008, 06:03 PM
A happy ending, for a terrible beginning. :KS
Wonder when we see that teacher in the forums. ):P
Someone could make a 'Karen' account and start trolling. :lol:

aysiu
December 13th, 2008, 06:25 PM
The closest I can see to a legitimate news source reporting the story is this Statesman piece (http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/digitalsavant/entries/2008/12/11/breaking_local.html?cxntfid=blogs_digital_savant).

You'll notice that the reporter's only source is Ken Starks and Ken Starks' blog. There is absolutely no third-party source or evidence to verify Starks' version of the story or even the story itself.

This is what the author of the piece has to say (emphasis mine):
Skeptical -- that is exactly why a version of this story has not yet run in the pages of the Statesman. I have asked Mr. Starks to pass on my contact information to the teacher in hopes she would be willing to speak with us (even anonymously) to confirm her identity, but Starks himself is adamant that he will not give out her school, last name or e-mail (see his follow-up blog post here: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/character-assasinations-aint-us.html )

I have no reason to believe that Mr. Starks fabricated the story, but I also have no definitive proof (nor does the technology director of AISD, whom I wrote about yesterday on this blog) that the incident occurred. I've tried to be very careful to make that clear in my posts.

Mr. Starks seems like a fine gentleman and his actions seem admirable, but unfortunately that's not enough for us to take the story and run with it in its current state in the newspaper. Not even anonymously? Just for verification? Not for public exposure to incite more harassment from the Linux community. Just for verification.

Nope.

And if you have any questions about why he might make the story up or exaggerate the story, here's another little snippet from that article:
The brouhaha, Starks figures, has at least put a spotlight on Linux, which he says is his mission in life. I'm sure all the comments on his latest blog post declaring him a hero and a good person don't hurt either.

wolfen69
December 13th, 2008, 06:52 PM
You'll notice that the reporter's only source is Ken Starks and Ken Starks' blog. There is absolutely no third-party source or evidence to verify Starks' version of the story or even the story itself.



maybe we should question every story on the net that isn't verified by credible detective agencies and government research. what kind of evidence do you want? and why are you hung up on this? if this happened between 2 people, what other kind of proof could there be, besides someone's word? which obviously isn't good enough for you. geez. i'm sorry i started another thread about this. tin foil hats anyone?

if something happens to me and i come here and post it, do i get questioned constantly about proving my story? maybe we should question everybody that posts in testimonials and experiences. they could be making it up ya know.

aysiu
December 13th, 2008, 07:01 PM
maybe we should question every story on the net that isn't verified by credible detective agencies and government research. what kind of evidence do you want? and why are you hung up on this? if this happened between 2 people, what other kind of proof could there be, besides someone's word? which obviously isn't good enough for you. geez. i'm sorry i started another thread about this. tin foil hats anyone?

if something happens to me and i come here and post it, do i get questioned constantly about proving my story? maybe we should question everybody that posts in testimonials and experiences. they could be making it up ya know. We should, as a matter of fact, question every story on the net that isn't verified by any other source. It doesn't have to be a detective agency or government research. At least one journalist who has said, "I have spoken with Karen and she has said..." would be a good start. How about an interview with Aaron?

Given the amount of attention this post has gotten and all the hate this "teacher" (if she even exists) has received through comments on various blog posts and "news stories" (if you can call them that), I think a little healthy skepticism is in order.

Most Testimonials and Experiences posted here are not that far-fetched, so they don't need that much verification. And when they are far-fetched, I and others here generally call out the trolls or fakes as we see them.

What I see is a blog poster who has a history of making melodrama out of the mundane presenting a full "news story" (and, yes, that's how it's generally being received in the Linux communities) that has only one source - him. And the only beneficiary of the story is him. More traffic to his blog. Many comments on his blog calling him a hero or a good person.

The story doesn't even seem realistic. She was silent on the phone for fifteen seconds? Do you know how long 15 seconds is on the phone? If someone were silent for 5 seconds, you'd hang up on her.

|{urse
December 13th, 2008, 07:07 PM
The OP just made my day =) That rocks, and I think Karen is one heck of a cool person for admitting they were mistaken rather than making excuses.

will1911a1
December 13th, 2008, 07:22 PM
Wow. I didn't know the story had a sequel. How... predictable, especially the part where she is in "awe" about Linux and FOSS.


Give me a break. :roll:

+1

The whole thing is just way too convienient.

lukjad
December 13th, 2008, 07:33 PM
You know what? I don't care if it is real or not. The way he sold it, he was the hero. And, I'm sorry, but when you hurt someone like he says he did, YOU DON'T BRAG about how you fixed it.

Another thing. I'm going to make a global character judgment here, but, when you are mad at someone, and you think they "set the wolves" on you, and that they hate you, are you going to listen to their well measured argument about how you didn't tell them who it was that originally said that? No! You're going to rip them to shreds or never speak to them again.

Also, this boy, Aaron. He knows who took his disks. And so do all his pals. Not ONE of those teenage wannabe "hackers" posts and tells the world her name is Karen Barkley? C'mon!

p_quarles
December 13th, 2008, 07:42 PM
maybe we should question every story on the net that isn't verified by credible detective agencies and government research. what kind of evidence do you want? and why are you hung up on this? if this happened between 2 people, what other kind of proof could there be, besides someone's word? which obviously isn't good enough for you. geez. i'm sorry i started another thread about this. tin foil hats anyone?

if something happens to me and i come here and post it, do i get questioned constantly about proving my story? maybe we should question everybody that posts in testimonials and experiences. they could be making it up ya know.

You seem to be saying that it doesn't matter if this story is true or not. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd?

saulgoode
December 13th, 2008, 07:53 PM
I would think that calling a forum member a liar without presenting any supporting evidence should be a violation of the Code of Conduct.

lukjad
December 13th, 2008, 08:02 PM
I would think that calling a forum member a liar without presenting any supporting evidence should be a violation of the Code of Conduct.
I am Clint Eastwood.

p_quarles
December 13th, 2008, 08:05 PM
I would think that calling a forum member a liar without presenting any supporting evidence should be a violation of the Code of Conduct.
While I'm not aware of anyone calling anyone else a liar in this thread, it strikes me as gravely mistaken to believe that the burden of proof lies with those who doubt.

aysiu
December 13th, 2008, 08:18 PM
I do believe Helios created an account to pimp out the Tux500 here, but I don't know if I would call him a forum member.

In any case, I'm not necessarily saying he is a liar. I suspect he is one.

I mainly am disappointed that people are so readily accepting of his account of the story. Even the follow-up some people have declared to be "another side of the story." No, it's the same side. It's his side.

If proof that this story is true ever surfaces, I hope people realize 1. that it is a good thing to get another account of the same story, so you can get a better feel for what actually happened and 2. it is possible to allow reporters to know the identity of someone involved in the story without the reporters then revealing that identity to the world at large. You can even have them sign a legal document binding them to such.

If proof that this story is a hoax in whole or in part surfaces, I hope people realize that they shouldn't be so quick to jump on and attack fictional people. All it does is reveal their own prejudices and the hoax-puller usually benefits in the meantime (are you really going to tell me Ken Starks has nothing to gain from all this?).

My guess, however, is that proof either way will never surface, Ken Starks will have gained his good PR, and then he will use that to add fuel to the spark of his next gimmick.

cardinals_fan
December 13th, 2008, 08:32 PM
maybe we should question every story on the net that isn't verified by credible detective agencies and government research. what kind of evidence do you want? and why are you hung up on this? if this happened between 2 people, what other kind of proof could there be, besides someone's word? which obviously isn't good enough for you. geez. i'm sorry i started another thread about this. tin foil hats anyone?

if something happens to me and i come here and post it, do i get questioned constantly about proving my story? maybe we should question everybody that posts in testimonials and experiences. they could be making it up ya know.
Yes, we probably should.

I think there are two likely possibilities:

a) "Karen" is really someone else (not Starks), who made some ridiculous comments to attract attention and is now pretending to see the light for more attention. In short, a troll. This strikes me as the most likely possibility.

b) "Karen" is really Ken Starks, trying to attract publicity. I think this scenario is a bit overly paranoid.

aysiu
December 13th, 2008, 08:39 PM
I'm willing to entertain some other possibilities, cardinals_fan:

c) Something very similar to what Ken Starks has presented really did happen, but no email was ever sent, or the email was not in the form Starks presented in. He tweaked it for effect, as he did the phone conversation follow-up.

d) Ken Starks overheard a teacher in AISD making a very ignorant remark about Linux and then decided to create a whole drama of it. If he's called on it, he can make some dramatic declaration about truth and facts and which is more important.

e) The story actually did happen, but since we're hearing only Stark's side of it (notice how even the email is presented as excerpt), what we know of the narrative is extremely skewed. There are important contextual events missing or slightly twisted in the re-telling.

f) The story happened exactly as Starks told it, in which case I still think he was a total jerk to her for publishing without her consent an email for the purposes of public ridicule and for being extremely condescending and resorting to his own conspiracy theories in his reply to her.

Grant A.
December 13th, 2008, 09:50 PM
"Karen" is really Ken Starks


Karen is an anagram for Ken Starks.

cardinals_fan
December 13th, 2008, 09:57 PM
I'm willing to entertain some other possibilities, cardinals_fan:

c) Something very similar to what Ken Starks has presented really did happen, but no email was ever sent, or the email was not in the form Starks presented in. He tweaked it for effect, as he did the phone conversation follow-up.

d) Ken Starks overheard a teacher in AISD making a very ignorant remark about Linux and then decided to create a whole drama of it. If he's called on it, he can make some dramatic declaration about truth and facts and which is more important.

e) The story actually did happen, but since we're hearing only Stark's side of it (notice how even the email is presented as excerpt), what we know of the narrative is extremely skewed. There are important contextual events missing or slightly twisted in the re-telling.

f) The story happened exactly as Starks told it, in which case I still think he was a total jerk to her for publishing without her consent an email for the purposes of public ridicule and for being extremely condescending and resorting to his own conspiracy theories in his reply to her.
All those are certainly possible, but I think my two theories are more likely.

K.Mandla
December 14th, 2008, 12:37 AM
The sad part to me is, if this does turn out to be some sort of stunt or hoax, it could backfire even further. In a distant way, Linux's credibility is at stake.

frankleeee
December 14th, 2008, 12:53 AM
The sad part to me is, if this does turn out to be some sort of stunt or hoax, it could backfire even further. In a distant way, Linux's credibility is at stake.

I don't personally think the world view of Linux or open software will be affected by this trivial instance whether true or not.

We all choose to believe what we want to with correlated data generally, this may be due to the idea of cognitive dissonance, with as a mod mentioned bias, that is part of the cognitive dissonance process.

Giant Speck
December 14th, 2008, 01:02 AM
I have a feeling that even if this story is a hoax, it is doing its job well. It has reached the point where no one really cares about the credibility of the story's author or the accuracy of the story itself. They only care that the story includes Linux on the offense against Windows.

They see three sensationalist aspects of this story:

1. An ignorant Windows user.
2. An all-knowing Linux user.
3. The Linux user triumphing over the Windows user, and either silencing the Windows user or converting them effortlessly to Linux.

These aspects make the story a success, regardless of its accuracy.

Sealbhach
December 14th, 2008, 01:22 AM
It's a bit like that CentOS story. That was funny.

http://www.centos.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=127


.

p_quarles
December 14th, 2008, 01:46 AM
I have a feeling that even if this story is a hoax, it is doing its job well. It has reached the point where no one really cares about the credibility of the story's author or the accuracy of the story itself. They only care that the story includes Linux on the offense against Windows.

They see three sensationalist aspects of this story:

1. An ignorant Windows user.
2. An all-knowing Linux user.
3. The Linux user triumphing over the Windows user, and either silencing the Windows user or converting them effortlessly to Linux.

These aspects make the story a success, regardless of its accuracy.
So misrepresenting reality to make a weak and self-serving point is something that we should laud as "a success"?

Count me out.

Rokurosv
December 14th, 2008, 01:48 AM
I'm 50/50 on this one. Some people I know have made the mistake of thinking that distributing copies of Linux is illegal, but the fact that she is installing Linux, and all the other stuff make it seem too false. Maybe someone in Austin can confirm this.

Giant Speck
December 14th, 2008, 01:58 AM
So misrepresenting reality to make a weak and self-serving point is something that we should laud as "a success"?

Count me out.

I didn't say we should laud it as a success. In fact, we should be actively opposing it.

What I meant was that the story is succeeding in getting people to believe a distortion of truth solely because it involves Linux triumphing over Windows. As long as it involves making Windows users look like sensationalist fanatics and Linux users look like they are the only sane computer users and that they must "save" Windows users, then the hoax is doing its job.

p_quarles
December 14th, 2008, 02:02 AM
I didn't say we should laud it as a success. In fact, we should be actively opposing it.

What I meant was that the story is succeeding in getting people to believe a distortion of truth solely because it involves Linux triumphing over Windows. As long as it involves making Windows users look like sensationalist fanatics and Linux users look like they are the only sane computer users and that they must "save" Windows users, then the hoax is doing its job.
Ah, I see. I feel the same way.

autocrosser
December 14th, 2008, 10:19 PM
I think that teachers need to be "educated":confused:

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/242520/teacher-threatens-to-call-the-cops-over-linux.html

And the best part!!!!!
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html

Riffer
December 14th, 2008, 10:27 PM
Theres been a few threads about this already. There also seems to be some doubt that this story actually took place.

autocrosser
December 14th, 2008, 10:47 PM
Unfortunately, this story has the ring of a true one--Some teachers in the US can be that stupid.............

-grubby
December 14th, 2008, 10:51 PM
Unfortunately, this story has the ring of a true one--Some teachers in the US can be that stupid.............

They can't verify the identity of the teacher, so there is some doubt.

linuxguymarshall
December 14th, 2008, 11:00 PM
I read the blog entry when it was published. It is one of my favorite stories ever.

magmon
December 14th, 2008, 11:07 PM
God, that makes me so mad. "Windows works on virtually every computer". BAH. Thats why my vista partition f*cked itself up and even unpartitioned vista screws itself over after like a month of use. (Goes to remove dual boot from siggy)

autocrosser
December 14th, 2008, 11:14 PM
OK--read the last post on the blog--Starks talked to the teacher in question & there is a "resolve" of sorts--He posted the latest & has made some amends for his comments (I think that was not "really" needed) & makes a good read as to the outcome......Uninformed is not stupid---but one needs to be informed before action........ http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/

I must admit that the community support & outcry is what is needed in this time of Microsloth heavy-handed dealing.

chucky chuckaluck
December 14th, 2008, 11:16 PM
i can't believe this is happening again.

magmon
December 14th, 2008, 11:30 PM
Hmm, Im glad he had the balls to apollogize. Im personally one of the many that cannot be wrong unless proven wrong.. Good for him tho. However, I dont know that I would have forgiven her so quickly xD

Giant Speck
December 14th, 2008, 11:36 PM
How many more times is this going to be posted?!?

](*,)

Sef
December 14th, 2008, 11:39 PM
How many more times is this going to be posted?!?

Locked again.

kestrel1
December 18th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Have a look at the following & see if you find it as funny & at the same time disturbing as I do:
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html
I work in a school (Network Manager - non teaching staff) & I can believe that some teachers would possibly be the same though.
What do you think? :lolflag:

damis648
December 18th, 2008, 01:45 PM
A thread already exists. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1007071&highlight=Starks)

kestrel1
December 18th, 2008, 01:48 PM
Sorry for opening up the same again.