Girl sues school over being suspended for facebook group

[Grant A.]

Katherine_evans A former Florida high school student who was disciplined for "cyberbullying" a teacher on Facebook is suing the school principal on allegations of violating her free speech rights.

The case highlights the legal challenges facing courts and school administrators as they grapple with campus civil order and free expression in an online world.

"We're in the very first generation of this and there's nothing ripe for the U.S. Supreme Court to hear," said Frank LoMonte, executive director of the Virginia-based Student Press Law Center.

The lawsuit, filed Monday in a Florida federal court, concerns Katherine Evans, now 19, who was suspended as a senior last year after creating a Facebook group devoted to her English teacher. The group was called "Ms. Sarah Phelps is the worst teacher I've ever met!," and featured a photograph of the teacher, and an invitation for other students to "express your feelings of hatred."

After people's comments derided Evans for the online stunt, and expressed support for the teacher, she deleted the group. But Pembroke Pines Charter High School, which did not respond for comment, suspended Evans for three days for "disruptive behavior" and for "Bullying / Cyber Bullying Harassment towards a staff member," according to the lawsuit, which is backed by the American Civil Liberties Union.

Evans was removed her from advanced placement classes "and forced her into the lesser-weighted honors classes." The lawsuit alleges the black mark on Evans' permanent record is "unjustifiably straining her academic reputation and good standing."

The lawsuit (.pdf) is one of about a dozen across the United States that are part of the fallout as schools confront cyberbullying and the explosion of social networking sites. A Texas high school volleyball coach in September went so far as to declare a ban on student Facebook and MySpace profiles, a decision the Northside Independent School District reversed (.pdf). Last month, Tennessee State University blocked the online gossip site JuicyCampus at the school firewall. In June, Missouri enacted a law against "cyberbullying" in the wake of the Megan Meier suicide tragedy, which was triggered by a hoax MySpace account.

Before the internet, student speech cases usually concerned student newspapers and dress codes.

There's no bright-line rule on what constitutes free, student speech in the online world. And as schools start to regulate off-campus student speech on the internet, lawsuits are following.

The U.S. Supreme Court has never addressed the parameters of online student speech, but might soon. So far, lower courts are following a 1969 high court ruling saying student speech is protected unless it is "substantially disruptive," though the road map provided by that decision is leading different judges to varying destinations. In that landmark case, the Supreme Court said students had a First Amendment right to wear black armbands to protest the Vietnam War.

Generally, the courts have allowed the suppression of student speech, online or off, when it threatens bodily harm and advocates illegal activity, "none of which we have in Ms. Evans' case," said one of the teen's attorneys, Matthew D. Bavaro, of Plantation, Florida.

"She has the absolute First Amendment right to do this," Bavaro said. "The question is how far does the school's authority go to punish off-campus speech they don't like? If Katie had praised the teacher, would she have been punished? The school is judging what is appropriate speech."

But with the explosion of the internet and social networking sites, "The courts are figuring out where the boundaries end and start when it comes to off-campus speech," LoMonte said.

On Wednesday, the U.S. 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals, one court level below the Supreme Court, will hear oral arguments in a lawsuit similar to the Florida case filed Monday.

The appeal concerns Justin Layshock, who, as a senior and honors student at a Pennsylvania high school, was suspended for 10 days after creating a mock MySpace profile of his principal.

The profile said the principal took drugs and kept beer at his desk. A federal judge overturned the suspension, ruling last year that the fake profile was not created at school and did not create a "substantial disruption."

"Public schools are vital institutions, but their reach is not unlimited," U.S. District Judge Terrence McVerry of Pennsylvania ruled last year.

Hickory High School appealed.

According to Monday's lawsuit, Evans used no profanities and stated no threats against the teacher. The suspension notice from the public school alleged only that Evans "had posted an inappropriate site regarding her teacher on Facebook." Evans is demanding that the suspension be removed from her record.


Source: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/12/us-student-inte.html

Quite an interesting story. Comments?

IMHO, the Internet is out of the school's jurisdiction.

[zmjjmz]

IMHO, the Internet is out of the school's jurisdiction.
This is true. The school should not be able to take disciplinary actions on students when they do something off campus.

[damis648]

This is true. The school should not be able to take disciplinary actions on students when they do something off campus.

+1, and yet we are told at my school that they check our Facebooks. *sigh*.

[init1]

Seems like the school overreacted on what appears to have been no big deal. If the student had sent an angry email, there might be grounds for suspension, but this was far more passive.

[linuxguymarshall]

I encourage my school to look at my Facebook. It's on the net, it's public. I encourage them to suspend me for something I do on the internet. Just so I can turn around with a big, fat, lawsuit :)

[Bölvaður]

......I can turn around with a big, fat, lawsuit :)

tru3 american *drums* *laughter sign blinks* thank you thank you.... oh I really should learn not to post gibberish.

[mentallaxative]

I wonder how they would treat a website like ratemyteachers.com.

[Polygon]

+1, and yet we are told at my school that they check our Facebooks. *sigh*.

facebook has permissions, unless they are a friend of yours, you can set it so unknown people only see a small picture and your name, not your actual profile.

[WaeV]

Unless they use some sorta administrative spying program to watch people's screen while they "work" during study hall.

If she wrote the message at home, though, there shouldn't be any discrepancies.

[Tatty]

This case seems to be nothing more than a school child writing silly comments about a teacher online.

However, something that worries me by reading this is how little power is given to the victims of such hate speech online.

That teacher is being defamed publicly for what may or may not be a good reason, surely she should have some rights to protect her reputation. Something like that could easily have much worse consequences for her in the long term than a small suspension on a child's permanent record.

I am certainly not one to ban the freedom of speech online, I have always known the internet to be a place of relative freedom and thats what i want it to continue being, but i dont believe that entitles everyone the freedom to publicly hurt others from behind the protection of their keyboards.

[kevdog]

I say burn the student for public defamation of the teacher. We all know what the intent of the facebook demonstration was -- and that is the most important part of this whole thing. If she was truly an "Honors Student" she may have thought things through before performing such a stunt. Not really "Honors" behaivor if you ask me. Even if she wins and gets the mark erased from her record -- she aint coming out ahead on this one. She will need recommendations from teachers and staff, and I'm sure these will be glowing.

For all of you out there that state -- "Come get me and I'll throw a lawsuit on you!!" -- its obvious you have never been involved in any type of lawsuit. It not only takes a lot of money, but the process is really slow, and takes years. Usually by the end of the process, you regret even having filed the suit -- a day late and a dollar short.

The girl was stupid and got what she deserved -- not excessive punishment. Now she wants to cry in her milk and turn to "the law" to help you justify her stupid actions. She isn't so brainy if you ask me. And she is making her situation worse by even filing the lawsuit.

Good riddance to her and her dang lawsuit. Idiot!!

[Daishiman]

I don't understand why that's stupid of her. Why should one hide the fact that you consider certain teachers to be incompetent? Does the fact that they are your teachers in the classroom suddenly forbids you from criticizing them?

No, the school is making a big deal of this because most learning institutions can't deal with students openly commenting on what goes inside.

Let's be honest, most of us have had several teachers during the time we were at school who were not fit in any way to teach, and they did so only because of their seniority and the difficulty of firing people in government jobs.

If anything, standing up for what you think is much more laudable than those who quietly ignore such issues pretending they do not exist. Those people contribute to the declining quality of teachers.

Institutions sometimes need a kick in the *** to think introspectively about what they're doing wrong. American middle and high schools are notorious for their absence of critical analysis with of their own policies.

If a professor is unable to handle criticism from his or her class then perhaps he should change his methods. There's no point in having an educator that's unwilling to listen or who takes offense at this, no matter how juvenile or ridiculous the critique is.

At any rate, this only dilutes the seriousness of the term "cyberbullying". There have been many reported cases of real cyberbullying where people ended up getting hurt. This is not such a thing.

[earthpigg]

However, something that worries me by reading this is how little power is given to the victims of such hate speech online.

"power"? on the internet, the teacher is the students peer. if she doesn't like that, gtfo the internet.

"victim"?

"hate speech"?

lol, i expect teachers to have skin thicker than this.

if the teacher complained then clearly she is far to weak and should be immediately removed from the classroom.

the student did nothing wrong - making fun of people is part of being a teenager. 16 year old girls call each other whores, sluts, etc in public places (such as facebook) all the time... as long as its off campus, its not the schools business.

the pseudo-stalking done by school administrators, followed by wonton violation of the students fundamental freedoms is the issue.

(better not mock my post, or its 'hate speech' and as a 'victim' i will ensure you feel consequences.)

[kevdog]

Since there seems to be a lot of anti-authoritarian opinions displayed here, I wonder if the teacher made a Facebook profile berating the particular student -- calling her names, complaining about her intelligence etc -- if she would receive the same level of support as the student in question. Likely she would have been fired by the school.

[earthpigg]

Since there seems to be a lot of anti-authoritarian opinions displayed here, I wonder if the teacher made a Facebook profile berating the particular student -- calling her names, complaining about her intelligence etc -- if she would receive the same level of support as the student in question. Likely she would have been fired by the school.

assuming the student was 18 years of age, the teacher is welcome to make all the mean facebook groups s/he wants as far as i am concerned.

being called names and being disliked and being mocked is part of being an adult.

do you think maybe if we stopped coddling our teenagers into their mid 20s, they would stop acting like pre-teens well into their mid 20s?

[zmjjmz]

Since there seems to be a lot of anti-authoritarian opinions displayed here, I wonder if the teacher made a Facebook profile berating the particular student -- calling her names, complaining about her intelligence etc -- if she would receive the same level of support as the student in question. Likely she would have been fired by the school.

Probably because the school has a certain amount of control over an employee that they shouldn't have over a student.

[kevdog]

Following your logic, buying a billboard, and placing your complaints about an individual, would also be fair game. I wonder why this doesn't happen however??

[psusi]

I say burn the student for public defamation of the teacher. We all know what the intent of the facebook demonstration was -- and that is the most important part of this whole thing. If she was truly an "Honors Student" she may have thought things through before performing such a stunt. Not really "Honors" behaivor if you ask me. Even if she wins and gets the mark erased from her record -- she aint coming out ahead on this one. She will need recommendations from teachers and staff, and I'm sure these will be glowing.

For all of you out there that state -- "Come get me and I'll throw a lawsuit on you!!" -- its obvious you have never been involved in any type of lawsuit. It not only takes a lot of money, but the process is really slow, and takes years. Usually by the end of the process, you regret even having filed the suit -- a day late and a dollar short.

The girl was stupid and got what she deserved -- not excessive punishment. Now she wants to cry in her milk and turn to "the law" to help you justify her stupid actions. She isn't so brainy if you ask me. And she is making her situation worse by even filing the lawsuit.

Good riddance to her and her dang lawsuit. Idiot!!

You really should learn the meaning of defamation before throwing it around like that. Expressing an opinion I disagree with a defamation does not make. It is one thing if she was making up lies about the teacher to make them look bad; it is quite another to express her opinion.

By your logic she could now sue YOU for calling her an idiot. Fortunately that is not how things work. Freedom to express your opinion, be it online, in print, carved in stone, or sent via smoke signal is a fundamental right that must not be impinged.

Even suggesting that students are being monitored for "inappropriate speech" ( meaning anything the administration disagrees with, true or not ) creates a chilling effect on the open exchange of ideas that can not, and must not be tolerated in an open and free society.

[zxscooby]

I still talk bad about the crappy teachers I had in school.
What is the difference? I can see there being a problem if the student was making outlandish accusations , photoshopping
the teachers face into a hardcore orgy or making threats of violence. I could even see a problem if it was being viewed in class and distracting other students, but if it was genuinely just an outlet for voicing dissatisfaction and calling for others to give opinions then it should certainly be allowed.
Even students have the right to an opinion and to express it publicly.

[EdThaSlayer]

If students can do drugs off-campus, technically they should be allowed to post something even less harmful as a hate group!

[warbread]

Since there seems to be a lot of anti-authoritarian opinions displayed here, I wonder if the teacher made a Facebook profile berating the particular student -- calling her names, complaining about her intelligence etc -- if she would receive the same level of support as the student in question. Likely she would have been fired by the school.

If it were the teacher that was taking action against the student, I might - MIGHT - be inclined to agree with you. However, the school took the authority upon themselves to punish the student for something they did off of school property, something that wasn't even illegal. That was a step out of bounds.

You'd be right to say that I'm anti-authoritarian, but there's a difference between anti-authoritarianism and keeping government institutions from policing thought.

[Trail]

Too much freedom is not a good thing.

[mips]

If students can do drugs off-campus, technically they should be allowed to post something even less harmful as a hate group!

Doing drugs is fine if it only affects the individual doing the drugs. In this case another person was affected.

[Trail]

Doing drugs is fine if it only affects the individual doing the drugs. In this case another person was affected.

Doing drugs affects the individual, the individual's family, the people that know that said individual does drugs, gives more resources to the drugs dealer so he can supply drugs to more individuals, etc.

You can't easily say that any incident is isolated from the rest of the society.

[mips]

Doing drugs affects the individual, the individual's family, the people that know that said individual does drugs, gives more resources to the drugs dealer so he can supply drugs to more individuals, etc.


I was more referring to the average weed smoker, pretty harmless. Hard drugs are a problem though.

[notwen]

I personally don't believe someone should be punished for mere opinions on the internet. Everything you read on the internet isn't true and this includes garbage on the social networking sites. It's one thing if the teacher confronts the student personally, but bringing in a educational institution to help w/ this is not necessary. The very same teacher would have had no idea about this facebook group if she didn't visit facebook/connect to the internet and would have probably never even knew about this. No harm no foul in my opinion. Schools need to concentrate on their education and less about internet gossip, regardless of whether said gossip includes talk of the school or it's employees. =]

---edit---
I will say however that the powers that be over the internet and our governments need to identify a line of where one's authority is applicable and where the powers that be once again work w/ the govt agencies(ie. the myspace suicide teen). The amount of laws and countries affected by these types of things will make the process of drawing this much needed line even more difficult.

Oh well, eventually we'll have internet police and stuff like this won't happen.

[damis648]

facebook has permissions, unless they are a friend of yours, you can set it so unknown people only see a small picture and your name, not your actual profile.

Yes, but the are owners of the network for our school and can look at anything belonging to anybody in the network.

[sydbat]

I think everyone here has missed the point...we have no idea of what was actually written on that facebook group. We are only speculating that it was mostly harmless (thank you Douglas Adams). What was written could have been very bad...perhaps things like how to kill the teacher. WE DO NOT KNOW. The group was deleted when the girl realized that it could be used against her (most likely after she was suspended).

I also think that freedom of speech is necessary on the internet. But the term "cyberbullying" was used by the school. To me (also without knowing exactly what was written on the facebook group) this is a clue that the criticisms of the teacher went too far. A bully is someone who uses intimidation to control and frighten others. This basic definition carries over to online posting. It is something no one should allow. That said, it may be the school did over-react...but again, we do not know what was posted on that facebook group.

And some who have mentioned the litigation by the girl are right...this will come back and bite her in the a**. Facebook has an archive they can release under court order (and there are other sites like Way Back Machine that take snapshots of pages) and the contents of the group will come to light. Then we will know the extent of the situation and be able to make educated comments.

[phaed]

Doing drugs is fine if it only affects the individual doing the drugs. In this case another person was affected.

But it never just affects the person doing the drugs. People don't live in a vacuum. Drug addicts hurt their family and friends.

These teenyboppers need to realize that the Internet does not exist in a vacuum either. I think that's the problem. It feels disconnected from the real world. But people can commit real crimes and really get arrested for things they do online. And if you would punish a student for bullying, berating, or publicly mocking a teacher in real life, I don't see why you wouldn't punish that student for doing the same thing online.

[aysiu]

I think everyone here has missed the point...we have no idea of what was actually written on that facebook group. We are only speculating that it was mostly harmless (thank you Douglas Adams). I agree.

The reactions here are more about the prejudices of the people giving them than they are about the actual content of the story and facts of the case.

I also am reserving judgment. It's possible that the things written were harassment and thus may warrant some kind of suspension or other disciplinary action. It's also possible that all she wrote is that that teacher is the worst teacher, in which case the school overreacted.

There are some interesting issues here in terms of whether what's said and done off-campus is or should be punishable by the school if it pertains to other students or to the staff or faculty of the school. If what was written constitutes libel or harassment and breaks actual laws, it may be best to leave it up to the courts to discipline her instead of giving her an in-school punishment.

[warbread]

I think everyone here has missed the point...we have no idea of what was actually written on that facebook group. We are only speculating that it was mostly harmless (thank you Douglas Adams). What was written could have been very bad...perhaps things like how to kill the teacher. WE DO NOT KNOW. The group was deleted when the girl realized that it could be used against her (most likely after she was suspended).



If the group was threatening, then the school still didn't take the proper course of action as they should have gone to the authorities. You don't just suspend someone who makes death threats against a teacher, you call the police.

You yourself are making the assumption that the only reason she deleted the group was because she could get into trouble. What if she honestly felt bad? What if she realized that she was wrong to have made that group? But then, so what if she took it off because she was in trouble? Isn't that the point of getting in trouble, to correct our behavior? The real point here is that the action the school took was inappropriate for anything done off of campus. Schools do not have the authority to punish people outside of school property.

[earthpigg]

Schools do not have the authority to punish people outside of school property.

actually, they apparently do... and that's the problem.

am i sending my daughter to school, or to a convent??

[zmjjmz]

Schools do not have the authority to punish people outside of school property.

You should see my homework load.

[earthpigg]

You should see my homework load.

do they punish you (detention, etc) for not doing your homework, or simply give you a failing grade?

[mkendall]

I also am reserving judgment.... It's also possible that all she wrote is that that teacher is the worst teacher, in which case the school overreacted.

Not necessarily. For something like this to result in a suspension, without overt threats, means that the facebook group was not an isolated incident but the latest of a long series of confrontations, meetings with the parents, and trips to the office. This girl thought she was smarter than her teacher and principal but she wasn't smart enough to understand the full ramifications of "Actions and Consequences."

Action: Try to outsmart everyone by going outside the school system to continue her private vendetta against a hated teacher.

Consequence: Suspension (validated by US Supreme Court; read up on "Bong Hits for Jesus"); kicked out of said teacher's AP class to lower ranking Honors class, resulting in a possibly lower GPA and no college credit; black mark on permanent record for all Colleges and Universities to see.

[earthpigg]

For something like this to result in a suspension, without overt threats, means that the facebook group was not an isolated incident but the latest of a long series of confrontations, meetings with the parents, and trips to the office.

got anything to back that up?

where i come from, we believe in the presumption of innocence.

none of what you accuse this young lady of was mentioned in the article, therefore we have no reason to believe it happened.

[aysiu]

Not necessarily. I know not necessarily. That was my whole point. We don't know all the details.

[mkendall]

got anything to back that up?

Experience as a teacher with a problem student.

[psusi]

Experience as a teacher with a problem student.

In other words, nothing at all. You are judging someone you don't know a thing about based on some experience you had with someone totally unrelated. Don't you think if that were the case it would have been mentioned? Since it wasn't mentioned, we must assume this was not the case. To assume otherwise is prejudice.

[mkendall]

I know a lot of things about this case with only the limited information given. For instance, there were no physical threats against the teacher. How do I know this? Because she was only suspended. Had such threats been made, the student would have been expelled. I also know that the teacher found out about the facebook group not because she frequents facebook but because a student told someone. (It's entirely possible the suspended student told the teacher herself: "I made a facebook group about what a horrible teacher you are and you can't do anything about it." But that is pure speculation. More likely it was another student telling the teacher.)

I base my statements on my experience with over 120 students a year as a teacher, talking with more experienced teachers who have over 120 students a year, conversations with principals and administration of a school with over 1000 students every year, training for licensure, etc. When a student is a problem, you talk to the student hoping he will self correct. If that doesn't work, you talk to the parents, hoping they will correct the problem. If the problem behavior continues, then you get administration involved. Sometimes the talk with the parents is skipped in cases where the behavior disrupts the class. But if a meeting with the principal doesn't correct the problem, then suspensions ensue. NB: criminal behavior, such as fighting, vandalism, theft, etc. trumps all steps. Teachers and principals get into education because we want to help students, not so we can punish children. This is not a job for someone with thin skin. Putting something like this into a students record is not something any teacher wants, and is something we try to avoid, if possible.

Don't let your anti-authoritarian attitude color your judgement. When I first read about this girls suspension, I thought that it was an overly harsh punishment. Then I thought about what could have led to this suspension: 1) the teacher and principal were major *ssholes on a power trip; 2) there had been a previous incident of this sort with another student, the student body had been warned that if something like that happened again the punishment would be a three day suspension, and this girl got caught in the backlash; or 3) this was one more incident in a series of incidents. If the first were the case, why didn't the parents sue at the time of suspension, instead of the daughter bringing suit a year or more later? They either have the means to bring suit or have a strong enough case that a lawyer is willing to work on spec or pro bono. If the second were the case, why was the student booted from the class over a single incident? No, the more likely reason for the suspension is #3, and the principal was still trying to help the student by allowing her to go to an Honors course instead of putting her in a standard course.

Full disclosure: I was a problem student, the problem being people wouldn't leave me alone -- I didn't act but reacted -- and I'm still anti-authoritarian. But just because I don't like authority doesn't mean I don't want to help people and that I can see the help that authorities are trying to give. But to allow one student to hinder the education of the rest is unconscionable, and allowing a student that would make such a facebook group to undermine the, yes, authority of the teacher to stay in the class is a hindrance to the educational goals of the other students.

Lastly, I'm not making judgements on the student, I'm merely stating the more likely scenario. Looking back on my first post I realize that I should have posted "Maybe [t]his girl thought she was smarter than her teacher and principal..." but reasons 1 and 2 are unlikely. Possible, but unlikely given the facts presented and, like it or not, my experience in the educational system.

Analogy: I come home and find a broken lamp. I could call the cops and tell them that a master thief picked the deadbolt, knocked over the lamp, got spooked, and locked the deadbolt behind him as he left without taking anything, or I could look at my cats who had knocked it over while chasing each other around the house. I don't have proof for or against either scenario, but the second is more likely.

[warbread]

I know a lot of things about this case with only the limited information given. For instance, there were no physical threats against the teacher. How do I know this? Because she was only suspended. Had such threats been made, the student would have been expelled. I also know that the teacher found out about the facebook group not because she frequents facebook but because a student told someone. (It's entirely possible the suspended student told the teacher herself: "I made a facebook group about what a horrible teacher you are and you can't do anything about it." But that is pure speculation. More likely it was another student telling the teacher.)

I base my statements on my experience with over 120 students a year as a teacher, talking with more experienced teachers who have over 120 students a year, conversations with principals and administration of a school with over 1000 students every year, training for licensure, etc. When a student is a problem, you talk to the student hoping he will self correct. If that doesn't work, you talk to the parents, hoping they will correct the problem. If the problem behavior continues, then you get administration involved. Sometimes the talk with the parents is skipped in cases where the behavior disrupts the class. But if a meeting with the principal doesn't correct the problem, then suspensions ensue. NB: criminal behavior, such as fighting, vandalism, theft, etc. trumps all steps. Teachers and principals get into education because we want to help students, not so we can punish children. This is not a job for someone with thin skin. Putting something like this into a students record is not something any teacher wants, and is something we try to avoid, if possible.



I'm glad you follow such steps, but unless you can point to some law that states this is the way things must be done, then you still don't know anything not in the article. While your experience dictates one thing, my own tells me that there are teachers and faculty who will suspend a student without such diplomacy. Neither my experience nor your own tells us any new information about the case.

Even still, assuming she were the worst problem-student ever, there is no justification for school suspension or class dismissal on the basis of things done off of school grounds and out of class. The Facebook group was the reason given for the suspension, not continued behavioral problems. You're attacking a straw man.

[earthpigg]

what warbread said.

[mkendall]

...there is no justification for school suspension or class dismissal on the basis of things done off of school grounds and out of class.

Again, read up on "Bong Hits for Jesus." (One of many recent Supreme Court decisions with which I disagree.)

[billgoldberg]

This is true. The school should not be able to take disciplinary actions on students when they do something off campus.

I don't agree.

If you are in school and you publicly humiliate you teacher on the internet, you know you are going to be in trouble.

[mips]

I don't agree.

If you are in school and you publicly humiliate you teacher on the internet, you know you are going to be in trouble.


In america they tend to think you can do and say as you please. Free speech is one thing, being mature & sensible another.

[warbread]

Again, read up on "Bong Hits for Jesus." (One of many recent Supreme Court decisions with which I disagree.)

I followed the case when it was news. It's not much of a counter argument.

From CNN.com:




...

"I find that a very, very disturbing argument," [Justice Samuel Alito] said, "because schools have and they can define their educational mission so broadly that they can suppress all sorts of political speech and speech expressing fundamental values of the students, under the banner of getting rid of speech that's inconsistent with educational missions."

...



Furthermore, one could argue, as it was tried, that the "disruption" occurred during a school event, not at the student's home or on the Internet. If the student held his banner up on the other end of town from school, would that also deserve a suspension? There is very little parallel in the details of both cases, though they do ask the same question.

[warbread]

In america they tend to think you can do and say as you please. Free speech is one thing, being mature & sensible another.

Responsibility is learned. Freedom is a right.

[mips]

Freedom is a right.

Not when it includes hate speech, my opinion only.

[warbread]

Not when it includes hate speech, my opinion only.

The topic of hate speech and freedom of speech is an important one, but not entirely relevant to the current issue... my little one liner could easily devolve into a tangent and hijack the thread. Even still, if we assume that the Facebook group spouted the most horrible, hateful and vile things, what gives the school the right to suspend the student? When did we decide that our state and federally underfunded education centers were to police extra-curricular student behavior? What the case really depends on is not how bratty the U.S. is, or whether what the student was immoral or typical, as we seem to be arguing, but whether the school has the right to enforce its rules on students outside of school. I don't think it does, and I do think allowing them to is dangerous.

[mikjp]

being called names and being disliked and being mocked is part of being an adult.

No, it is not. It is part of being in puberty.

[mikjp]

Even still, if we assume that the Facebook group spouted the most horrible, hateful and vile things, what gives the school the right to suspend the student?

What would happen, if a teacher organized a Facebook group claiming one of her students is the most stupid student she has ever had? I suppose the teacher would be fired and/or the student would sue the teacher...

[Nano Geek]

I still talk bad about the crappy teachers I had in school.
What is the difference?The difference was that she wasn't doing it in private like you would do. She basically insulted her teacher in pubic.

I don't know what she said about the teacher, but I would guess that the girl was in the wrong.

[bp1509]

d

[Riffer]

Its one thing to blog or email how much you "hate" someone (in this case a teacher), its quite another to start a website dedicated to hatred and asking others to "express" their hatred. That was the line that was crossed.

If this site was dedicated toward hatred of another student I wonder how people would feel.

[warbread]

What would happen, if a teacher organized a Facebook group claiming one of her students is the most stupid student she has ever had? I suppose the teacher would be fired and/or the student would sue the teacher...

Most definitely, but there are already laws regarding that. First and foremost are the privacy laws. A teacher cannot disclose any information regarding his/her student's academic efforts. I believe, but do not know, that the law even states that saying a student was in your class is grounds for a suit. That's an issue with college professors, though perhaps not public school teachers. Second, the school as the teacher's employer can certainly take disciplinary action for what the teacher does outside of school. Even when I'm not clocked in or on site for my work, I could be fired if I started abusing customers or divulging sensitive information. The customers are free to write up a blog or start a site about how much I suck at my job. Also note that if the student sues the teacher, the student isn't acting on the grounds of temporary authority. A suit against the teacher would be the appropriate course of action through the appropriate channels for a breach of private information.

In both cases, the offender is acting immaturely, but only in one case is there grounds for legal recourse.

[Grant A.]

IMO, i'm kinda tired of two things.

1. Defamation not being protected by the free speech laws.
2. Schools, public and private, thinking they have a right to everything people do on their free time.

This is getting ridiculous. Schools are built for learning, not for punishment that may harm the student's future. Putting a black mark on a student record is more harsh than many people think. It can automatically stop them from being accepted to some colleges. Cyberbullying? How was the teacher not violating cyberstalking laws? The internet is a free place, all people who believe in the freedom of speech and limited government should support the schools not being allowed to punish people for speaking their minds! Schools are government institutions and must abide by the Bill of Rights! This is just plain ridiculous! For all you people who said she should be punished, you should be ashamed. Punished for speaking your mind? Punished for expressing feeling? The teacher has absolutely no right as a government employee to punish for freedom of speech out of their jurisdiction!

The more lenience Governments get, the more freedoms and power they take.

[MikeTheC]

What special status does Facebook enjoy here, exactly?

Let's say a hypothetical student posted a note on a public message board (old-school type made from cork) which was physically located on a piece of property not a part of the school system she attended. Would there be any net difference?

[earthpigg]

If it was "hate speech" or "cyber bullying", it is the purview of trained law enforcement officials... not the school.

the only conclusion is that the school had no grounds for such claims that would have held up in front of a judge, thus they just used their authority to irl bully the student and derail her life.

[zipperback]

Unless they use some sorta administrative spying program to watch people's screen while they "work" during study hall.

If she wrote the message at home, though, there shouldn't be any discrepancies.


If it were ME then I certainly would avoid using any of the school computer systems and the school supplied Internet connection except for school specific things like classroom work and such.

If you want to access a social networking site such as facebook, myspace, or any thing else that isn't relevant to your schoolwork, then do it on your own computer and your own Internet connection.

If you are using the school computers and the school Internet connection for personal uses, then it might be a legitimate arguement that the individual in question may have violated the AUP (Acceptable Use Policy) which may be a valid reason to possibly suspend a student, or to reduce their technology access while on campus.

I'm not a lawyer, so I am not giving any legal advice. This message is nothing more than just my opinion on the subject, and should be considered only that. Just my personal opinion.

If there are issues of concern, then I would strongly urge anyone to contact a lawyer who specializes in matters related to academic technology issues, and matters of personal freedoms.

The ACLU would probably be a good organization to contact about matters such as these.

- zipperback
:popcorn:

[Johnsie]

Troll gets punished for trolling.

I say let her be an example that trolling on the internet can have severe consequences. Hopefully this will discourage other people from doing the same thing. Teachers need to stop letting the children dictate to them. It's too easy for children to just walk all over teachers. The Internet should never be used as a place to spread hate about people. If a student wants to critcise people then there are proper channels for doing do.

[nbayiha]

This is true. The school should not be able to take disciplinary actions on students when they do something off campus.

Unless what the do off campus , has a repercussion in the Campus .
*** for me , what she did was wrong and she should be reprimanded for that.
When did we forget , that teacher are here to help us in Our life. When did we forget the word respect of the teacher.

Nowadays student don't respect at all teacher, and treat them as the are opponent in a fight.

[lundish]

I also am reserving judgment. It's possible that the things written were harassment and thus may warrant some kind of suspension or other disciplinary action. It's also possible that all she wrote is that that teacher is the worst teacher, in which case the school overreacted.
.

Well said, since we can't tell who the teacher was and what the student wrote it is anybody's guess who did wrong.

innocent until proven guilty.