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Iandefor
December 8th, 2005, 06:39 AM
What Winter holiday, if any, do you celebrate? What about your religious preference, now that I think about it? As for me, I celebrate Christmas, but only because of my Catholic grandmother, my Catholic aunt & uncle and my Protestant mother. I'm an agnostic in the sense as defined by Michael Shermer; I'm not so much "Undecided" as I am convinced that it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of any deity empirically or logically. Simply put, I am faithless :-D.

I'd like to keep any possible tensions to a minimum in this thread, if possible. Thank you!

poptones
December 8th, 2005, 06:43 AM
Obligatory Festivus reference...

GreyFox503
December 8th, 2005, 07:31 AM
...I am convinced that it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of any deity empirically or logically.
I celebrate Christmas, and consider myself a Christian. Like you, I also believe that is impossible to prove the existence of God/other diety.


I'd like to keep any possible tensions to a minimum in this thread, if possible. Thank you!
Good luck with that one.

endersshadow
December 8th, 2005, 07:43 AM
I celebrate Christmas, I'm Catholic, and unlike 2 of you, I believe that one can prove the very existance of G-d. See Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. Also, dealing with agnosticism, check out Pensées by Blaise Pascal (you know, the dude who the programming language was named after).

Note: I am not attempting to start a major theological discussion. I just offered up some very easy reading that deals specifically with the proof of existance of G-d. Too often people think that the Bible is the only theological reference that we have and forget about St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, Kirkegaard, and all the other great theologians...

P.P.S.-If you want to read those, great. If not, that's fine, too. I don't care, just giving some reference :-D

wondering_jew
December 8th, 2005, 08:16 AM
Im a messianic jew turned agnostic philosophy major.... seeing as how hanukkah starts on christmas this year I dont have to decide ;). My family celebrates christmas there might be a menorah about there might not who knows. And as far as Kierkegaard goes he would probably support the idea that you can't prove the existence of G-d I mean if you could then it wouldn't be faith anymore and the 'leap of faith' is whats important in religion and what I respect about people who have faith I could give critiques of Augustine and Aquinas too but I'll only say there is nothing empirical about either those 'proofs' are logical in nature and exist in logical space and still rely on assumptions that you just have to accept to make the proof work and the end result is still that you have to ultimately have faith to believe in G-d .

Just pitching in my own two cents not trying to start a major philosophical or religious discussion...I saw some philosopher mentioned and I got excited...its not often something in my area of expertise pops up on a linux forum

Iandefor
December 8th, 2005, 08:46 AM
And as far as Kierkegaard goes he would probably support the idea that you can't prove the existence of G-d I mean if you could then it wouldn't be faith anymore and the 'leap of faith' is whats important in religion and what I respect about people who have faith I could give critiques of Augustine and Aquinas too but I'll only say there is nothing empirical about either those 'proofs' are logical in nature and exist in logical space and still rely on assumptions that you just have to accept to make the proof work and the end result is still that you have to ultimately have faith to believe in G-d .
I applaud you. I've never seen anyone make a run-on sentence as long as that without the use of semicolons :). I agree with you on the 'leap of faith' thing and the Augustine/Aquinas arguments; they're primarily logical and only stand if you accept certain assumptions that may not necessarily be true.

After this response, I'll have to ask people to keep theological arguments out of this thread; this thread is just trying to see what people's religious preferences are, not a debate. If you wish to engage in a theological discussion, this isn't the place.



Good luck with that one.
I hope and expect that people are mature enough to prevent this thread from degenerating into religious bickering. If not, may (a) Mod strike this thread dead! :-D

wondering_jew
December 8th, 2005, 08:58 AM
I applaud you. I've never seen anyone make a run-on sentence as long as that without the use of semicolons


run-on sentences have always been my specialty ;)

benplaut
December 8th, 2005, 09:07 AM
i'm an agnostic jew, but i celebrate Hanukah (for the food as much as anything else!!)

endersshadow
December 8th, 2005, 09:17 AM
Im a messianic jew turned agnostic philosophy major.... seeing as how hanukkah starts on christmas this year I dont have to decide ;). My family celebrates christmas there might be a menorah about there might not who knows. And as far as Kierkegaard goes he would probably support the idea that you can't prove the existence of G-d I mean if you could then it wouldn't be faith anymore and the 'leap of faith' is whats important in religion and what I respect about people who have faith I could give critiques of Augustine and Aquinas too but I'll only say there is nothing empirical about either those 'proofs' are logical in nature and exist in logical space and still rely on assumptions that you just have to accept to make the proof work and the end result is still that you have to ultimately have faith to believe in G-d .

Just pitching in my own two cents not trying to start a major philosophical or religious discussion...I saw some philosopher mentioned and I got excited...its not often something in my area of expertise pops up on a linux forum

Well, this probably isn't the place for it, so I'll say that if you want to continue the discussion, feel free to PM me, though I won't solicit anything from you :)

And I think that nobody would have expected that instead of a flame war stemming from a religious thread, you get a philosophical and theological discussion...ironic, to say the least :-D

ex`
December 8th, 2005, 09:31 AM
I celebrate my birthday (tehee!) and, uh, Christmas. But just for the tasty duck and presents.

I'm such a materialistic pig. :(

TeeAhr1
December 8th, 2005, 05:18 PM
Well, I'm a dirty hippie pagan, so I've got Winter Solstice and Yule coming up right quick here...my family's straight Minnesota Lutheran, so I do the obligatory Christmas thing with them as well, obviously not (for me) in any religious sense, not that I'm opposed to anyone celebrating their particular thing, but for me it's more for the family, and the food.

Re: Christmas. Mithra (http://www.vetssweatshop.net/dogma.htm)called. Wants his birthday back.

(I jest. Totally not trying to start any sort of argument/flame war.)

Naglfari
December 8th, 2005, 05:27 PM
What Winter holiday, if any, do you celebrate? What about your religious preference, now that I think about it? As for me, I celebrate Christmas, but only because of my Catholic grandmother, my Catholic aunt & uncle and my Protestant mother. I'm an agnostic in the sense as defined by Michael Shermer; I'm not so much "Undecided" as I am convinced that it is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of any deity empirically or logically. Simply put, I am faithless :-D.


Ditto and likewise :)

Iandefor
December 8th, 2005, 08:52 PM
Re: Christmas. Mithra (http://www.vetssweatshop.net/dogma.htm)called. Wants his birthday back.

(I jest. Totally not trying to start any sort of argument/flame war.)
How interesting. I wasn't aware that there had been a pre-Jovian Roman pantheon... I think I'll do a little more research on that. What I find more interesting, however, is the parallel between Mithras-ism (Is that right?) and the Minoan obsession with bulls. I'm going to have to do some more research to see if there's a possible connection.

BWF89
December 8th, 2005, 09:11 PM
Christmas

TeeAhr1
December 8th, 2005, 09:11 PM
Mithra or Mithras. Either is correct.

Iandefor
December 9th, 2005, 12:50 AM
Yeah, I got that from the link.

majikstreet
December 9th, 2005, 12:53 AM
We celebrate Christmas and Hannukah.. My grandparents do hannukah and give us stuff... My mom and I get a christmas tree and give presents, but don't do the holiday for the whole birth of christ thing.. We don't participate in a religion. We more kind of believe in the Big Book (alcholics anonomyous)-- my mom was a co-dependant.

etc
December 9th, 2005, 01:10 AM
I'm an atheist, and I celebrate Christmas because it's a tradition, not for the religious values.

augied
December 9th, 2005, 04:30 AM
I'm an atheist, and I celebrate Christmas because it's a tradition, not for the religious values.
Same here. I celebrate Christmas as a commercial holiday. (Also my parents are slightly christian.)

wondering_jew
December 9th, 2005, 04:55 AM
Interesting, I'd actually never heard of Mithras... but immiediatly thought of Zorasterism when I started to read about it and much to my surprise the references to Zorasterism in the article followed that thought....I love it when I'm right like that ;)

Iandefor
December 9th, 2005, 07:16 AM
Oh... I told a lie. I am agnostic + a philosophical buddhist; I accept those parts of Shakyamuni's teachings that deal with the human condition and not the spirit, such as his assertion that desire leads to suffering.

Iandefor
December 10th, 2005, 04:53 AM
Christmas How about religious preference? A lot of people on these forums (and a lot of people I know) celebrate some kind of Winter holiday (Christmas, hannukah, etc) but don't actually have any kind of religion. I'd like to emphasize the fact that there's no pressure to answer; I'm just curious.

Iandefor
December 20th, 2005, 06:09 PM
I celebrate my birthday (tehee!) and, uh, Christmas. But just for the tasty duck and presents.

I'm such a materialistic pig. :( Duck? You eat duck for Christmas?
I've never liked duck that much. Oh, and *bump*!