OK seriously guys we need to start getting ourselves out of the culture trap that Microsoft has lead us to. A quote:
The following are my own thoughts and opinions only.Your just not thinking 4th dimensionally!
On Mark and Canonical:
1) Canonical is wholly owned by Mark Shuttleworth
2) Mark has said he doesn't want to floating or selling shares in Canonical.
3) Mark Shuttleworth doesn't need any more money or want to have more (no pure greed).
Conclusion: Canonical doesn't need to be profitable, it just needs to earn enough revenue and to have revenue growth that supports the growth in support and direct contributions that will fix bug #1. It's all about bug #1, remember that no matter how much Canonical makes, Mark will just reinvest that money into growth.
On making money:
1) The software licenses give liberty to anyone given them.
2) You are allowed to sell the software, if you are the owner you can sell the first copy under GPL for a high price and the next person can release it for free. (see hostage-ware)
3) Once the software exists, it doesn't cost much to redistribute and is on the internet almost free.
Conclusion: You can not really make money from selling existing linux or ubuntu like it was a propritory software license. We don't artifically limmit supply like Microsoft or Adobe. So we don't have much to DO in order to give people copies and liberties.
Business is all about the verb. What are you DOING that adds value or that gives access to products or services. Once software is written, you are adding almost no value to redistribute it, but then this balances out with how much it costs you to redistribute. You also don't want to be diverting too much money from one activity into another one. If you get the maths wrong you can end up starving resources from sections of the business that bring in the money.
So what are the valuable activities in the Free Software industry that can make money?
1) Support, this is an extra add-on which gives users extra help which benefits their ability to utilise the software. Weather installing it for them personally or writing a book.
2) Distribution, this is actually a valid activity that can make money. If you have the fastest servers and the best sys-admins. Why shouldn't you earn money from it? There are various ways to organise collection and prioritisation is one way.
3) Ancillary development, anything from OEM integration, packaging, translating, documenting(see support).
4) Make Merchandise, building a good brand with a good feel good user base can enable you to produce various physical branded products with which to sell.
5) Physical Bundle, Adding the software to a blank cd or blank computer can add value. It's still possible to sell these products even when you give the software it's self away.
6) Software Development, this to my mind IS THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect which is currently being overlooked. If you want to see movement, change, bug fixes, improvements, new features... you pay for them. Since all the above are used as cash cows to support main line development it's about time we started laying the ground work for getting money from doing the actual work it's self.
OK so what's the reason we aren't currently each paying $20 each 6 months to push development of the next version? Well it has a lot to do with market share. If we want to push the market and break the hegemony, we need to invest a lot of energy into it which the market will not do by it's self.
Once the market is corrected and there is no longer a vice like grip on the market: the only scalable business in Free Software development is Free Software development it's self. Customers have the liberty to make their own software improvements, but customers also have the liberty to make their own dinners and we still have restaurants.
Some of this development money will come from OEMs. They will hire a certain amount of people, but I'm also betting they'll invest in Canonical to keep a central figure that can integrate everything. All the rest of the money needs to come from users just likes the ones that use this forum.
Thoughts and feelings?
Best Regards, Martin Owens
42 is not an anwser, it's an error code. the universe is saying 'Error 42: meaning to universe not found'
Programmer, Teacher and Artist
Sorry I didn't make It clear I was trying to say they could charge $5-$10, not that they currently do (which I believe they don't), and most people would take no notice/ wouldn't care as long as it came preinstalled, which is the way most people are.
And the people who do not want to pay that, can then put it on themselves like they do now.
Vadi I wasn't trying to incite any problems I just think it is more than possible, in the near future, to make money off of open source software.
If I were in Mark's place I would like to think I would make the same decision as him, though in bank rolling it my self.
But if Mark dies or some other thing happens if Canonical is not prepared then there could be some major problems. I was just trying to point out that it is possible to make money in the near future, for desktop pc's.
Fortunately Ubuntu is not desktop only, and there is the server side of things which is were Mark has indicated he wants to take Canonical for profitability, for the company, not himself.
I thank you Vadi for seeing my flaws and allowing me to explain my self. I appreciate, your difference of opinion and welcome it thank you for standing up and saying some thing, that others hadn't said.
すべてと、そして、すべてへのリナックスは自由を鳴らせました。
Linux to all, and to all, let freedom ring.
I agree wholly
What I am talking about, is for all the people who do not want to have to do it themselves, and/or don't know any one who would do it for them, and just want it to run when they get it. This would be a fee that work in with OEM's to be added on to the computer.On making money:
1) The software licenses give liberty to anyone given them.
2) You are allowed to sell the software, if you are the owner you can sell the first copy under GPL for a high price and the next person can release it for free. (see hostage-ware)
3) Once the software exists, it doesn't cost much to redistribute and is on the internet almost free.
Conclusion: You can not really make money from selling existing linux or ubuntu like it was a propritory software license. We don't artifically limmit supply like Microsoft or Adobe. So we don't have much to DO in order to give people copies and liberties.
Business is all about the verb. What are you DOING that adds value or that gives access to products or services. Once software is written, you are adding almost no value to redistribute it, but then this balances out with how much it costs you to redistribute. You also don't want to be diverting too much money from one activity into another one. If you get the maths wrong you can end up starving resources from sections of the business that bring in the money.
And as I said be fore for all those who do not want to pay for it can download and install it themselves.
[qoute]
So what are the valuable activities in the Free Software industry that can make money?
1) Support, this is an extra add-on which gives users extra help which benefits their ability to utilise the software. Weather installing it for them personally or writing a book.
2) Distribution, this is actually a valid activity that can make money. If you have the fastest servers and the best sys-admins. Why shouldn't you earn money from it? There are various ways to organise collection and prioritisation is one way.
3) Ancillary development, anything from OEM integration, packaging, translating, documenting(see support).
4) Make Merchandise, building a good brand with a good feel good user base can enable you to produce various physical branded products with which to sell.
5) Physical Bundle, Adding the software to a blank cd or blank computer can add value. It's still possible to sell these products even when you give the software it's self away.
6) Software Development, this to my mind IS THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect which is currently being overlooked. If you want to see movement, change, bug fixes, improvements, new features... you pay for them. Since all the above are used as cash cows to support main line development it's about time we started laying the ground work for getting money from doing the actual work it's self.
[/quote]
I agree these are more good way's to make money on Canonicals part.
I wouldn't make it per version of Ubuntu, just for when it is purchased from the OEM, with every thing the way it is now. So no pay $20 every 6 months that would be stupid, but $5 every 3-5 years is more than acceptable to me.OK so what's the reason we aren't currently each paying $20 each 6 months to push development of the next version? Well it has a lot to do with market share. If we want to push the market and break the hegemony, we need to invest a lot of energy into it which the market will not do by it's self.
This is crucial but to be able to reach that stage OSS has to be come main stream, and then back down the flawed concept's of today's market place.Once the market is corrected and there is no longer a vice like grip on the market: the only scalable business in Free Software development is Free Software development it's self. Customers have the liberty to make their own software improvements, but customers also have the liberty to make their own dinners and we still have restaurants.
This is what I am talking about, the OEMs pass the money along to Cannonical that they charge the customer at the time of purchase, the $5-$10 that I was talking about.Some of this development money will come from OEMs.
すべてと、そして、すべてへのリナックスは自由を鳴らせました。
Linux to all, and to all, let freedom ring.
you know..
I dont think it's an understatement to say that linux is a beautiful thing.
I'm more and more fed up (and I don't think I'm alone) with the monetary system,- the whole thing is a sham and completely un-necessary.
Whether humans are enlightened enough to be nice and live together without it is another thing...
The point being, maybe Mark doesn't want money to be the driving issue here,- it's about making something great, for the good of everyone.
I certainly appreciate it,- and I certainly appreciate that linux and the open source movement is a small glimpse at what our future on this planet could be like.
Kind regards
Dave Rich
http://www.daverichband.com - My music
I think he's absolutely right. There's no way you'll ever make any money selling a desktop Linux distro. There are too many free ones around, and they're all good. You're never going to make many sales, even if your distro was significantly better than the others.
Canonical's business plan is to sell services, not bits.
$5 every 3-5 years? that isn't enough. Do you know how expensive programmers are? Even if you got 10,000 people to do that, you'd only be able to hire 1 developer for that time. Very bad.I wouldn't make it per version of Ubuntu, just for when it is purchased from the OEM, with every thing the way it is now. So no pay $20 every 6 months that would be stupid, but $5 every 3-5 years is more than acceptable to me.
Users need to take direct responsibility for investing in the software that they want to see improvements in. It's no good expecting Canonical or an OEM like Dell to constantly provide users with freebies. For a start it's not sustainable and secondly it isn't scalable. We do want lots more development, lots more bug fixing, better ideas?
We can share our advancement and work together towards better software. But if you don't help us fund it, it will not go as fast.
42 is not an anwser, it's an error code. the universe is saying 'Error 42: meaning to universe not found'
Programmer, Teacher and Artist
# 1 This was the first time anywhere I ever heard anyone suggest that Dell was paying Canonical purely for Ubuntu ( and nothing else), and the only rational explanation for that particular angle (if there was one) was that Dell could be possibly paying for some kind of support. Much like people walking into Best Buy could buy Ubuntu with support.
# 2 Beyond that I am fully aware that Canonical doesn't MAKE the codecs. They (Canonical) could sell Ubuntu to a OEM (Dell) with the codecs built in for a cost to cover the cost of the codecs (which are then paid toward the licensees).
However the cost would NOT be $ 5 , but $39.96.
http://shop.canonical.com/product_in...roducts_id=244
Good news! We can make it profitable.
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