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Thread: suse is microsoft?

  1. #51
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    Re: suse is microsoft?

    Quote Originally Posted by glotz View Post
    Please stop pretending that you don't understand that the extra bucks Novell will earn out of this deal will come from the pockets of the other GNU/Linux vendors.

    Businesses care about money, that's for sure. And that's why I believe that community based distros like e.g. Debian are much more likely to make decisions that are good for the user instead of good for themselves.

    I just don't like the fact that the world does revolve around Micro$oft and their unsound policies. And yes, I very much respect the work the people do at the FSF.
    Like I said, please stop using $ instead of s in Microsoft. It doesn't help your argument any.

    And as for the money that Novell makes coming out of other Linux vendors, that isn't entirely true. Novell also gains money from people who use Microsoft Server because their products can now work with Linux (whereas they couldn't or the meathods to do it were buggy before). Microsoft gains from the deal in that they get some help from someone who knows how the Linux platform works, and in that way they can gain experience for their security and such.

    And as for community based distros such as Debian creating better products than commercial distros, that isn't entirely true. When basing development off of a community model, you will usually have a lot of strong opinions on how to do something, and when a developer chooses one way over another, a fork can occur. This means that there are less developers over any one product. Businesses, on the other hand, have their employees do what they want them to do, while having the employees keep their opinions to themselves. This can be both good and bad, I understand that. But the product made by the business can become more stable since its not forking as much.
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  2. #52
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    Re: suse is microsoft?

    Quote Originally Posted by glotz View Post
    Please stop pretending that you don't understand that the extra bucks Novell will earn out of this deal will come from the pockets of the other GNU/Linux vendors.
    ...because Red Hat and Mandriva are charities

    Novell's partnership with Microsoft was a business decision. I don't think it was particularly sound, but then I don't have to make those decisions. If you're opposed to it, feel free to avoid purchasing Novell products (SLED/SLES). However, stating that Novell (much less a community distro sponsored by Novell!) is evil is just silly. I recommend that you start using NetBSD with dwm (a good system!) if you think that way, because Novell is arguably the largest contributor to Linux and FOSS today.

  3. #53
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    Re: suse is microsoft?

    There's nothing wrong with selling Free Software but you don't do deals with the devil. Yeah, I mean Micro$oft. Note the dollar sign.

    Doing testing always helps, shouldn't come as a too much of a surprise. That's the role of opensuse. No more a community distro than Ubuntu or Red Hat.

    And since this deal is all about patents, all the contributions from Novell could be laced with poison. Of course, this only matters in coutries daft enough to recognize software patents. (e.g. US of A)
    Last edited by glotz; December 8th, 2008 at 06:06 AM.

  4. #54
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    Re: suse is microsoft?

    [QUOTE=tjwoosta;6325732]

    " novell will not be my first choice of a distro, because that would be almost like choosing choosing a company that supports proprietary software over a company that supports open software "

    The Majority of Software that Novell Produce is Open Source. They pay programmers to write Free Open source software.
    How does this mean that they favour Propietry?

  5. #55
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    Re: suse is microsoft?

    Quote Originally Posted by glotz View Post
    There's nothing wrong with selling Free Software but you don't do deals with the devil. Yeah, I mean Micro$oft. Note the dollar sign.

    Doing testing always helps, shouldn't come as a too much of a surprise. That's the role of opensuse. No more a community distro than Ubuntu or Red Hat.

    And since this deal is all about patents, all the contributions from Novell could be laced with poison. Of course, this only matters in coutries daft enough to recognize software patents. (e.g. US of A)
    "All contributions from Novell" to what? As already explained, Novell contributes to almost every major piece of Linux FOSS. You may need to move to BSD...

    While this is way off-topic for this thread, I have to ask: why do you hate Microsoft so much? Have they used unethical business practices in the past to muscle out competition? Yes. However, when hundreds of thousands of people have been killed in senseless genocide in Darfur (just as an example), surely there are more worthy targets for your emotion. Microsoft is a corporation, nothing more and nothing less. Some of its employees are highly moral people and some aren't. If you consider them "the devil", maybe you need to realign your priorities.

  6. #56
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    Re: suse is microsoft?

    Quote Originally Posted by glotz View Post
    There's nothing wrong with selling Free Software but you don't do deals with the devil. Yeah, I mean Micro$oft. Note the dollar sign.

    Doing testing always helps, shouldn't come as a too much of a surprise. That's the role of opensuse. No more a community distro than Ubuntu or Red Hat.

    And since this deal is all about patents, all the contributions from Novell could be laced with poison. Of course, this only matters in coutries daft enough to recognize software patents. (e.g. US of A)
    Your Opinon to me is Garbage... absoloute garbage.. (you probly think mine is too, but i don't care)
    and I guess your saying all this nonsense because your one of those
    Richard Stallman Zealots who believe that if it isn't "FOSS" it has no Place in Linux...
    I disagree... Proprietry and OpenSource "FOSS" have a place in Linux... Im sick of all the stupid political debating when it comes to linux... Not EVERYTHING has to be Free as in speech and Free as in beer.... I use mainly Open source programs.. but hell, there are some programs and games that I would Buy in a Second if it gets ported over to Linux! Especially Games... I want to see more of This on Linux, and whether you like it or not, its coming... and alot of it is here now... As Long as we have the Freedom to choose Propietry or OpenSource... Everybody wins.

  7. #57
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    Re: suse is microsoft?

    Quote Originally Posted by symon1980 View Post
    Your Opinon to me is Garbage... absoloute garbage.. (you probly think mine is too, but i don't care)
    and I guess your saying all this nonsense because your one of those
    Richard Stallman Zealots who believe that if it isn't "FOSS" it has no Place in Linux...
    I disagree... Proprietry and OpenSource "FOSS" have a place in Linux... Im sick of all the stupid political debating when it comes to linux... Not EVERYTHING has to be Free as in speech and Free as in beer.... I use mainly Open source programs.. but hell, there are some programs and games that I would Buy in a Second if it gets ported over to Linux! Especially Games... I want to see more of This on Linux, and whether you like it or not, its coming... and alot of it is here now... As Long as we have the Freedom to choose Propietry or OpenSource... Everybody wins.
    Let's try to keep this thread civil and open.

  8. #58
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    Re: suse is microsoft?

    Quote Originally Posted by cardinals_fan
    why do you hate Microsoft so much? Have they used unethical business practices in the past to muscle out competition? Yes. However, when hundreds of thousands of people have been killed in senseless genocide in Darfur (just as an example), surely there are more worthy targets for your emotion. Microsoft is a corporation, nothing more and nothing less. Some of its employees are highly moral people and some aren't. If you consider them "the devil", maybe you need to realign your priorities.
    I really fail to see the significance of anything going on in Darfur to this discussion.

    Micro$oft has a long history of abuses, it's a convicted monopolist and hasn't changed its ways a bit. No thanks to the US supreme court and the Bush administration.

    Computers are very significant machines. And very different from most the other machines we have. We have for example a sewing machine, a washing machine and a telly, all of those are single purpose, limited machines. A computer is a free machine, you can use it to do pretty much anything you can dream. Many people agree that the printing press was one the defining inventions of the past that really made it possible to spread knowledge and helped tremendously improve peoples lives. Those presses were mighty big things, still slow and expensive to operate and didn't produce verbatim copies, unlike what todays computers can instantly and at no cost at all.

    Micro$oft is making it a terrible experience for everybody to use computers. By limiting your use of the hardware and of their software and by making sure its operating system is preinstalled on pretty much all computer units sold. All they care about is making a buck.

    I could talk about Chicago and IE 6 and criminal negligence but I won't. You can find information about these elsewhere if you're interested. Ditto spam and botnets.

    I don't know if you're familiar with the ooxml episode? The 'standard' that says for example you must do things like word 95 does it! Micro$oft corrupted the ISO by bribery.

    Another example of Micro$oft bribes is the olpc project, a project born to deliver open hardware and software for children in the developing countries to learn about the world and about computing. Now they face more expensive machines because XP wouldn't run on the original machines and EULAs that say among other things they of course cannot take a look at the windoze source code, all this thanks to a little check written to Mr. Negroponte.

    Micro$oft was a member of the W3C when the internet standards were drafted. Yet Micro$oft chose not to implement the standards in IE 1 in a nasty move that has lead to the broken internet of today. Think what the internet would be like if it actually worked.

    Perhaps you've heard about "trusted computing" and drm? Micro$oft is a champion of those things. And then of course, software patents.

    I really haven't spent too much time studying the evil ways of Micro$oft and have no behind the scenes insider information. Yet, the things stated above quite easily convince me that it's not just another company. More like it, just another evil to the core company.
    Last edited by glotz; December 8th, 2008 at 07:41 AM.

  9. #59
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    Re: suse is microsoft?

    I agree with everything you have said about Microsoft. And I don't like them either.. because of these reasons and a few others...
    But... Whether we Like it or not, Microsoft Dominate... and I can See why Novell have joined with Microsoft to improve interoperability between Windows and Linux...

    Novell Want to Compete with windows, that won't change... But Businesses are not going to buy Suse Products if it doesn't work with Microsoft Products... and Businesses are not going to just flat out Dump Microsoft in Favour of 100% Linux just yet... But they sure are getting a Much bigger taste of Linux since this deal, now that they work together nicely... It will only lead to more Adoption of Linux in the Future...

    Microsoft is "Evil"
    Novell signed a deal with them, but are still doing their own thing, and still contributing to Free Open source and Linux... they did before, and they still are. Thats not going to change...So This does not make Novell a Bad Company, in my eyes, they made the right decision... As long as they don't go back on their word, and as long as they keep supporting/improving Linux and creating OpenSource Software, then Novell are doing the right thing for Linux.

    also...for Microsoft to "Want" to join forces with Novell, just goes to show that Linux is winning
    they are taking the "can't beat em, join em" approach...
    Last edited by symon1980; December 8th, 2008 at 08:08 AM.

  10. #60
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    Re: suse is microsoft?

    Quote Originally Posted by symon1980 View Post
    also...for Microsoft to "Want" to join forces with Novell, just goes to show that Linux is winning
    also...for Novell to "Want" to join forces with Microsoft, just goes to show that Windows is winning

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