Outyliner and MIndMapper

[Eric Weir]

I've decided that I need both a quick idea generator like FreeMind and a way to track my notes and such. I tried Tomboy for a few days, but installed Zim yesterday for a couple of good reasons.

1) Zim stores all notes as plain text files which means you can read them with your editor. Zim has a menu option to edit source that calls up your editor instantly with the note loaded. I tested this yesterday by highlighting a bulleted list in gedit, then sorting, saving and returning to Zim. Worked like a charm.

2) Tracker can find your notes because they are plain text.

3) The notes are stored in your home directory. Easy to find and back up.

I installed Zim under my previous installation -- Kubuntu 7.04 -- and played around with it a little bit, but I didn't take to it and stopped experimenting. I do remember that it took me a while to catch on to MaxThink.

Zim is being installed as I write. I'll give it another try. Keep me/us updated on your experience with it.

Meantime, couple interesting things I came across. The first is Leo, an outliner that's written in Python and requires Python to be installed. It was developed by a programmer for programmers, but it appears to be both powerful and versatile. I gather it's used by nonprogrammers as well as programmers, e.g., as an outliner, PIM, etc. It appears to have a big following among programmers, who are contributing to it's continuing development. E.g., it's capabilities can be extended by plug-ins. It is very thoroughly documented -- the equivalent of a multi-chapter book on line -- and the documentation is very well written, if somewhat-to-very technical in places.

Check it out starting here http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/front.html The documentation is linked at that site, but here's the URL for it http://webpages.charter.net/edreamleo/frontMatter.html Linux users get only the source code. Installation under Linux appears not to be explained very clearly.

The second is a website that has collected information on a ton of mind-mappers, outliners, etc., etc. Many of them I've heard of. Some of the latter are not that interesting. There still doesn't seem to be anything for Linux that comes close to MaxThink [or Brainstorm]. You can find it here http://www.mind-mapping.org/

Regards,

[Eric Weir]

Installation under Linux appears not to be explained very clearly.

I take that back. See http://webpages.charter.net/edreamle...m-requirements Couldn't be clearer.

Regards,

[JohnMcD]

Hi Eric,

I tried Zim a few weeks ago and didn't take to it either. This time, I read through all the docs on the Zim site before I installed. Still a bit quirky. One thing that threw me is that when you create a new page it doesn't "stick" until you enter some data. I'll keep you posted as to my adventures with Zim. I copied and pasted the dozen or so Tomboy notes with no problem. I'm taking it one step at a time.

Funny you should mention Leo. I found and installed Leo on my Windows box last year, but it seemed slow and I didn't really need it with BrainStorm installed. I looked at the repository and on the Leo site. I don't want to play with compiling code at least not until I get past the newbie phase.

I just downloaded the latest hardy updates (135 files I think). It included an update to Wine. Much as I don't want to use wine, I may try installing BrainStorm again. I couldn't get it to install under Gutsy. It did install under hardy, but the fonts misbehaved so I uninstalled. I hate the windows, etc that you get with wine. BrainStorm ran, but was a bit slow.

I think I've seen the big mindmapper/outliner site. I'm always on the hunt.

I'll keep you guys posted on my progress.

McD

[HenryTSTabruck]

I've tried Zim, which is really a wiki editor. It has some promise, reminding me of ConnectedText in Windows (automatically created network diagrams). After wrestling with installations of FreeMind and Semantik, unsuccessfully, I fell back on OpenOffice, wherein I could create outlines in Writer and simple flowcharts/mindmaps in Draw. Not an elegant solution, but temporary tools.

[Eric Weir]

I've tried Zim, which is really a wiki editor. It has some promise, reminding me of ConnectedText in Windows (automatically created network diagrams).

After John's post expressing optimism about Zim, I reinstalled it and in the process came across my exchanges with the developer in which I was trying to understand how the linking of documents works. My frustrations with it came back to life, and I abandoned by pledge to give it another try.

Not exactly open-minded. Not consistent with the way I came to understand some of the quirky applications that I've relied on in the past and rely on today.

Something I've been circling like a coyote around a baited trap, that clearly has amazing potential for a great variety of applications is TiddlyWiki, described as "a reusable non-linear personal web notebook." It has an amazing community of developers, who, though technically proficient in the extreme, are amazingly creative, and amazingly helpful. [The superlatives are not overdone.] Following are just some relevant links:

What is a TiddliWiki http://www.tiddlywiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
Getting a TiddliWiki http://www.tiddlywiki.com/
Getting started with TiddliWiki http://tiddlywiki.com/#GettingStarted
Examples of things people have done with TiddliWikis http://giffmex.tiddlyspot.com/
The TiddliWiki community [I get it by email.] http://groups.google.com/group/TiddlyWiki?hl=en

VERY interesting.

Regards,

[JohnMcD]

Wow, tiddlers and such. Who'da thought? I like your Coyote simile Eric. I played with the TittlyWiki site. Didn't download the file but I'll keep it on my radar. I'm starting to get the feel of Zim and want to concentrate on one app at a time. The developer is talking about tags and categories for future plugins.

Finding new apps is fun though. I finally got BrainStorm working under Wine, but it loses much of it's functionality. I don't like wine.

I wrote an article today using a workflow that started with a fountain pen (yeah, I still use them) and a yellow pad for a hand done mind map. Then I fired up FreeMind and refined my map, developing the skeleton for my article. Printed up the map and fired up Abiword for my first draft. Worked out nicely. I started using abiword for my drafts because it's fast, but mostly because I like the plugins. You can right click a word and look it up in either the dictionary or a thesaurus. Figured I needed to settle down and get some work done.

Henry, there is a new mind mapper in the repository called Labyrinth. It's a 0.4.0 release. Might be easier than using Draw. I played with it for awhile. Looks promising.

McD

[HenryTSTabruck]

John, I too do much note-taking and diagramming (mind maps, concept maps, & genograms) using a fountain pen (Namiki, retractable fountain pen, extra fine point, dense black ink on light green paper.

Were you able to get Freemind (which installation package?) installed under Hearty Heron without changing the Java version? I've tried intalling the Debian version several times--it installs, but won't fully open.

I've tried Labyrinth, TiddlyWiki, and Zim, and plan to give AbiWord a spin. Discovering all these applications through you and Eric has been delightful.

[JohnMcD]

Hi Henry,

I wrote a long reply and lost it somehow. I'll get back to you later. I should get back into the habit of doing my replies in gedit first.

McD

[JohnMcD]

Hi Henry,

Here goes again. This time I'm typing in gedit first. I have two Namikis, a retractable like yours and a fine nibbed Falcon. The Falcon is great for drawing. I have three other pens inked; a Mont Blanc (monster 149) my wife gave me years ago, a Pelikan with custom italic nib and a wonderful parker vacumatic. Been using Noodler's black in most of my pens for a few months.

I suppose I've been luck with FreeMind. I just installed 0.7.1 from the repository and it worked. I have an AMD64 system that I purchased about 6 weeks ago. I came with Gutsy preinstalled. The guy who sold me the machine sent me an iso image (4 GiB) of hardy for my machine once he had it running so I was able to do a clean install.

I'm a linux noob, still learning.

It seems other people have had problems with FreeMind and java in hardy. You need the sun version I believe.

I checked my open office and it's using Sun JRE 1.6. I also typed in the following commands in the terminal to get the java and freemind versions.

java -version

java version "1.6.0"
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0-b09)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 1.6.0-b09, mixed mode)

freemind -version

Looking for user properties:
/home/jmcd/.freemind/user.properties

User properties found.
Default (System) Look & Feel: com.sun.java.swing.plaf.gtk.GTKLookAndFeel

Hope this helps you.

Zim is working great for me. I like the way it handles URLs, etc., a feature I use a lot. Still learning.

This thread has turned into a nice dialog. Meeting new friends and helping each other is one of my favorite internet features.

McD

[HenryTSTabruck]

John, just when I thought I had enough pens, I find out about another irresistible instrument--I just ordered the Namiki Falcon, soft fine point--can't wait to try it out. My current active-use collection is now down to 4 older Namiki retractables: fine, medium, broad, and one broad point that was grinded to an oblique by Pendamonium.com.

Thank you for the FreeMind guidance. I'm a new user of Linux/Ubuntu and have a lot to learn, but enjoy exploring and experimenting. I still rely mostly on my Windows applications, including favorite programs like PersonalBrain, C-Map, MindManager, Ecco Pro, and Edge Diagrammer. Fortunately, some developers are recognizing the cross-platform advantages.