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Thread: The Composite Manager Guide: How to Get Vista-ish Effects in (K)(X)Ubuntu.

  1. #121
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    Re: The Composite Manager Guide: How to Get Vista-ish Effects in (K)(X)Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by varunus
    For all who are having flash problems:

    I found a trick on the gentoo forums (*gasp*) on how to fix these firefox crashes. (All composite effects still work with firefox and flash if you do this, don't worry.) Try this with any program you think may be having problems.

    First, open up your firefox launcher file with the following:
    Code:
    sudo gedit /usr/bin/firefox
    Find the part that looks like this:
    Code:
    ##
    ## Variables
    ##
    MOZ_DIST_BIN="/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox"
    MOZ_PROGRAM="/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin"
    Add a line, making it look like this:
    Code:
    ##
    ## Variables
    ##
    ##Added for composite extension to work
    export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1
    MOZ_DIST_BIN="/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox"
    MOZ_PROGRAM="/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin"
    Flash will no longer have any issues. This makes firefox ignore the extra alpha channel that xcompmgr gives it for color. Because the application itself doesn't do anything with the alpha channel, all of the effects still work, and flash will no longer complain.

    Cool, added to main guide.

    By the way, I have gotten a GUI for Xcompmgr to work in Ubuntu. I will make a NEW guide for that sometime next week.
    Those folks who try to impose analog rules on digital content will find themselves on the wrong side of the tidal wave.
    - Mark Shuttleworth

  2. #122
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    Re: The Composite Manager Guide: How to Get Vista-ish Effects in (K)(X)Ubuntu.

    1.: thanks for all your great work phg!

    2.: my hardware: athlon 1700+
    geforce 6800

    the cpu has got a lot of work...what exactly is generated by the gpu?
    when i change transparency or a window is fading, the cpu is used.
    the nvidia-driver should be installed correctly, at least glxinfo returns nvidia and games are working .

    so is there something i can do to lower the cpu-usage?

  3. #123
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    Re: The Composite Manager Guide: How to Get Vista-ish Effects in (K)(X)Ubuntu.

    Hello everybody
    Well it seems i have some problems with composite.

    Since some days i noticed i had problemes with glx and composite ... glxinfo or a xscreensaver with opengl made my X server crash and restart so i disabled glx and now it works fine.
    I noticed that it produced that line in /var/log/syslog. gdm_slave_xioerror_handler : erreur X fatale - Redémarrage de :0
    I 'd like to know if i could find a X log to see what is the error of X but until now i didn't find anything interesting.

    I also have an other problem : after a long period of use of Xorg with xcompmgr, the server become really slow and take all the cpu and the memory and is slow as hell.
    The speed come back to normal if i quit and relaunch xcompmgr but the memory use doesn't decrease.
    For example now Xorg uses 427mo of RES memory as shown in top.

    For the glx problem i'll try 7667 nvidia drivers instead of the 7676 maybe it will be better.

  4. #124
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    Re: The Composite Manager Guide: How to Get Vista-ish Effects in (K)(X)Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by seraphim
    the cpu has got a lot of work...what exactly is generated by the gpu?
    when i change transparency or a window is fading, the cpu is used.
    the nvidia-driver should be installed correctly, at least glxinfo returns nvidia and games are working .
    If you want to see how much work the GPU is doing, take away the "renderaccel" line in the xorg.conf and try to use Xcompmgr. Even on the fastest machines I can't get the "fading trick" to be usuable.

    Of course, if it makes no difference then something is wrong with your set up beforehand.

    so is there something i can do to lower the cpu-usage?
    Not really. We are really riding on the edge of the knife with this stuff. When EXA is mature (and when Nvidia switches over to EXA like they now say they will) then hopefully less CPU will be used. Till then (I say....6 months from now if we are lucky?) we have to deal with what we have.

    Personally I'm going to cheat. I'm buying an AMD 3800 x2 dual core processor so that one of the cores can handle the Xcompmgr CPU usage while the other handles my applications. I know this solution is not practical to all (and honestly I have been waiting for the processors to come out for the past couple years for an upgrade, so its not ALL about xcompmgr), but the other alternative is waiting.

    As soon as I can find a way to benchmark the ATI cards I will see if their EXA is better when it comes to CPU usage then the Nvidia solution.
    Those folks who try to impose analog rules on digital content will find themselves on the wrong side of the tidal wave.
    - Mark Shuttleworth

  5. #125
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    Re: The Composite Manager Guide: How to Get Vista-ish Effects in (K)(X)Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by fabs0028
    Hello everybody
    Well it seems i have some problems with composite.
    Thats the state it in now.

    I also have an other problem : after a long period of use of Xorg with xcompmgr, the server become really slow and take all the cpu and the memory and is slow as hell.
    The speed come back to normal if i quit and relaunch xcompmgr but the memory use doesn't decrease.
    For example now Xorg uses 427mo of RES memory as shown in top.
    This has bugged me too. The best answer I have found comes from Rasterman ( maker of E17). He thinks that when the video card runs out of its own RAM is when the slowdown occurs and it starts to eat into system RAM. Apparently the "fading trick" causes RAM leekage, but since I am not a leet Xserver hacker I cannot fix the problem.

    The good thing is that after a year of sitting on the shelf, Xcompmgr is getting love from those who actually can fix the thing. Now that EXA exists all of the awesome people hacking on that framework are using xcompmgr to do their testing. I hope this will drive them to kill the bugs in Xcompmgr as they kill the bugs in EXA/Xorg.

    In the long run xcompmgr is not a solution. Its kinda just a "proof of concept" that people like me who are tired of waiting for Xorg to catch up to the other OSes in this matter are using WAY beyond what it was ever intended to do. I hate waiting. Based on my research, here is a timeline for when stuff will happen that is more than toys. Of course this is just my opinion/ prediction and I am not part of any xserver or distro development team so I could be way off. But here is my best shot:

    December 2005 -Xorg 7 comes. With it comes nice EXA and almost stable composite for the ATI 92xx or less ATI cards. Also stimulates development of Xserver drivers.

    Spring 2006 - (hopefully) EXA will be hammered on to the point where it is stable for ATI cards (up to 92xx) and Intel Graphics cards (after ATI). It seems thats what all of the EXA developers are using. I also hope (kinda for my own sake) that this is when the Nvidia Driver Team (who is AWESOME when it comes to drivers - they made something like EXA before EXA even had a name and we are all using it for xcompmgr) will release new Xorg drivers with EXA support or more stable whatever they call that copy of EXA they have made.

    Summer/Fall 2006- KDE 4 will (hopefully) bring with it a STABLE Composite Manager built in when it is released. Hopefully the chips that are labled work in progress have some sort of EXA accerateion:

    http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/ExaStatus

    And by then the ATI 92xx's have what we can call "the first stable composite set up on the Linux desktop." Maybe also by this time ATI will release drivers for newer ATI cards with EXA, but I would not hold my breath. Also maybe XFCE will have a stable compsitor.....who knows about that one.

    This is when the Cairo themes will come flooding in I hope.

    Spring 2007 - Xegl gets to a medium usuable state where people like me are using it despite some crashing (aka the situation with Xcompmgr now). Xorg drivers for many cards have developed to the point where some distros (maybe even a major one.....maybe) turns on composite by default. I hope by this point the Linux desktop can at least SEEM LIKE its at the state of the OSX desktop today.

    If we are lucky this will be when Gnome adds its Luminocity compositor to Metacity, but I would not hold my breath.

    Summer/ Fall 2007 - If not in spring then this is when Gnome will add Luminocitiness I hope (or just give up the ghost to KDE because it will have compositer for years by then). ATI releases the specs for all the 9800 and below cards so that new stable drivers with EXA can be made for them (kinda a dream but possible). By this point the possibilites for composite will be mature (as in more than fading tricks and such- I want a stable Expose copy!)

    Spring 2008 and beyond - Xegl is stable enough many can use it full time (this might be only a dream but please let me have it or I won't be able to hold off on buying a Mac till then). The Looking Glass Project emerges in a mature state and blows the OS using public away. The xserver reaches a point where its comparible to what MS offers by that point and begins to pull out in front.

    Dancing in the streets.
    Last edited by poofyhairguy; November 21st, 2005 at 01:50 AM.
    Those folks who try to impose analog rules on digital content will find themselves on the wrong side of the tidal wave.
    - Mark Shuttleworth

  6. #126
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    Re: The Composite Manager Guide: How to Get Vista-ish Effects in (K)(X)Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by poofyhairguy

    Spring 2008 and beyond - Xegl is stable enough many can use it full time (this might be only a dream but please let me have it or I won't be able to hold off on buying a Mac till then). The Looking Glass Project emerges in a mature state and blows the OS using public away. The xserver reaches a point where its comparible to what MS offers by that point and begins to pull out in front.

    Dancing in the streets.
    Thats what i'm talking about! Looks like there's a great future ahead, just got to keep waiting i guess! I can't see M$ releasing another version of windows before Xegl is stable, the time linux can step ahead (if not before(or already?- being free an' all)).

    btw: respect ++ for all the research and hard work u have put in poofyhairguy!

  7. #127
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    Re: The Composite Manager Guide: How to Get Vista-ish Effects in (K)(X)Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulus
    Thats what i'm talking about! Looks like there's a great future ahead, just got to keep waiting i guess!
    I once read that "the Linux desktop is a side effect of the Linux server." The state of the xserver when the Xorg fork happened pretty much proves this point. At that time it could draw things on most screens- thats all a server needs to do (if that much). So it will take a while to move from that to a modern desktop. Drivers have to catch up. Window managers have to catch up. The concept that no modern (as in post 92xx) cards have open drivers that can do the job has to be dealt with (that will be a hard bridge to cross for many OSS fans). Opengl has to be evaluated for its effectiveness. Computer need to get more powerful to move up the baseline (Linux HAS to be able to run on older machines unlike MS where their "advances" force you to throw your old machine in the trash).

    Yet despite the challenges its a bright future.

    btw: respect ++ for all the research and hard work u have put in poofyhairguy!
    Thanks. I try my best.
    Those folks who try to impose analog rules on digital content will find themselves on the wrong side of the tidal wave.
    - Mark Shuttleworth

  8. #128
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    Re: The Composite Manager Guide: How to Get Vista-ish Effects in (K)(X)Ubuntu.

    great little prediction timeline poofyhairguy One thing I think should be at least mentioned is the Open Graphics card project though. They have been making some great progress lately (In fact they even mentioned that getting a card for sale out by the end of the year is a possiblity) and I'm real excited to see where it takes us!!

    Read all about it here:
    http://kerneltrap.org/node/5743

  9. #129
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    Re: The Composite Manager Guide: How to Get Vista-ish Effects in (K)(X)Ubuntu.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyJ
    great little prediction timeline poofyhairguy One thing I think should be at least mentioned is the Open Graphics card project though. They have been making some great progress lately (In fact they even mentioned that getting a card for sale out by the end of the year is a possiblity) and I'm real excited to see where it takes us!!
    I have kept up with it and I wish them luck, but until they can beat an ATI 92xx (the current high water mark for OSS graphics) I am a little skeptical.
    Those folks who try to impose analog rules on digital content will find themselves on the wrong side of the tidal wave.
    - Mark Shuttleworth

  10. #130
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    My mini-ATI rant.. slightly OT.

    Quote Originally Posted by poofyhairguy
    I have kept up with it and I wish them luck, but until they can beat an ATI 92xx (the current high water mark for OSS graphics) I am a little skeptical.
    This frustrates me.

    Desktop Linux is a small market, no doubt, but here's what I see happening. For a long time now, Nvidia has released closed source drivers for Linux users. Maybe they are intended for graphics professionals, but whatever, Nvidia makes them available to all of us. I personally chose an Nvidia-based video card for the sole reason that Nvidia provided good Linux drivers. Many of us reward Nvidia with our business for their support of the platform we prefer to work on.

    Now, because ATI has chosen not to provide an equal level of support for their customers, a growing demand for Linux drivers for ATI cards is left unfilled. Open source developers are currently working hard to fill that void. Nothing personal against an ATI video card owners (I'm one too, with my iBook G4), but I wish the OSS devs wouldn't do it.

    If OSS devs succeed in making drivers that work with X.org in a way that is superior to what Nvidia is able to do, then I think demand among Linux users will shift away from Nvidia hardware, and towards ATI hardware. I'm not a zealot for Nvidia, but I don't feel that ATI should be rewarded with more hardware sales (and likewise Nvidia punished), when they declined to support Linux users from the beginning.

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