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Thread: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

  1. #11
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    Re: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

    Intelligent service management is more about speed -- it's about getting the ordering right too.

    There's a few servers that I manage that do a LOT of stuff and their bootup usually takes 5 to 10 minutes (even something like a home NAT gateway can take 2 or 3 minutes to boot up). Being able to shave that down to 1 or 2 minutes (which is entirely possible with the help of Upstart parallelizing services) can be a big deal if you unexpectedly have to boot it up, like after a power outage.

    In addition, Upstart makes writing jobs a lot easier than SysV init. Rather than guessing a bootup order number, you get to simply specify what services your service depends on, and Upstart will automatically find the optimal order to start everything up.

  2. #12
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    Re: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

    Quote Originally Posted by macogw
    laptops
    Only thing that matters with my laptop is hibernate/restore time, I only reboot for real at most once a month.

  3. #13
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    Re: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

    I added some Graphviz generated dependency diagrams comparing SysV to Upstart boot. It should be immediately obvious why Upstart is preferrable.

  4. #14
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    Re: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

    This news brings a smile to my face. I shut my desktop down at least once a day, and my laptop several times a day.
    AMD Opteron 165 | 3GB | ATI Radeon X1800

  5. #15
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    Re: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

    Would there be any interest (both "victims" (testers/users) and developers/hackers) to form a Launchpad group or project to put out an Upstart modified version of Hardy?

    I'd be more than happy to contribute towards hacking something like that, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one interested in concurrent bootup technology. It will likely be orthogonal to the Intrepid upstart effort, as Upstart 0.5 for Intrepid has a different syntax rulefile than Hardy, but I think for Hardy we can make a community Upstart modification as a just-for-fun thing.

  6. #16
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    Re: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

    The improvement time is pretty impressive. Be sure to keep us up-to-date if you do start a project. I'd gladly try this on one of my tinker boxes. =]
    Quote Originally Posted by *snip*
    I love it when people stop trying to help me and I just uninstall ubuntu because of it . . .

  7. #17
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    Re: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

    Quote Originally Posted by jdong View Post
    Would there be any interest (both "victims" (testers/users) and developers/hackers) to form a Launchpad group or project to put out an Upstart modified version of Hardy?

    I'd be more than happy to contribute towards hacking something like that, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one interested in concurrent bootup technology. It will likely be orthogonal to the Intrepid upstart effort, as Upstart 0.5 for Intrepid has a different syntax rulefile than Hardy, but I think for Hardy we can make a community Upstart modification as a just-for-fun thing.
    I'm in. How can I help?

  8. #18
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    Re: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

    Quote Originally Posted by smbm View Post
    I'm in. How can I help?
    Well here's a quick rough braindump:


    Big Picture:
    Get a LiveCD of an Upstart-based Hardy rolled so testers can hop in more easily than unpacking event.d tarballs.

    I think Hardy has "solidified" enough that changes from now to its release will likely not affect us at the bootup level, so work can begin relatively soon.

    First-Level TODOs:

    (1) Finish implementing all bootup jobs. So far I've only done about 90% of the rcS/rc2 scripts, basically only the ones that are absolutely crucial to a proper bootup. Finishing these should be trivial.

    (2) Remove ugly hacks. On my local event.d's recently I've been trying some very greedy hacks to pump up boottime, including modifying write cache behavior. This hasn't helped too much (1-2s improvement at most) towards a faster bootup but really are quite ugly/unprofessional. Let's remove this.

    (3) Find some maintainable way of remastering a LiveCD with this event.d. So far I'm considering just a script that empties out and replaces event.d on the livefs. A package would be more elegant, but I'm not sure what benefits that'll actually provide if any.

    (4) Bzr branches of everything. I'm already in the process of making bzr branches of my bootup scripts; I just want to make sure there's no blatantly obvious errors or sensitive info before pushing it onto Launchpad.

    Second-Level TODOs:

    (1) Set up some Wiki pages
    (2) Document basic init->upstart conversion process (should be trivial)
    (3) After rough images work, probably a bit of PR such as ubuntu-devel-discuss
    (4) Address how new init scripts are handled. Currently, we are ignorant of their presence. We should either detect+notify users of unhandled init scripts or automatically convert them to Upstart jobs.
    (5) Address undoing these hacks
    (6) Address migrating an existing system to Upstart
    (7) Address debugging and logging of failures. Currently, logging leaves a lot to be desired.
    Last edited by jdong; March 19th, 2008 at 05:25 PM.

  9. #19
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    Re: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

    Oh yeah, first matter of business: A NAME! In IRC earlier I joked about naming the project "UpHard" and all our scripts and products along that "theme" but for obvious reasons I'd probably get in a lot of trouble for doing that


    I was thinking we'd call our distro UpHack and our team the UpHackers, but other names are welcome. I'd like the name to bluntly tell potential users how insanely risky all this is (that is, rewriting the bootup mechanism) and that it's entirely unsupported and for fun.

  10. #20
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    Re: Let's boot with Upstart (GDM ready in 15s)

    Quote Originally Posted by jdong View Post
    Well here's a quick rough braindump:


    Big Picture:
    Get a LiveCD of an Upstart-based Hardy rolled so testers can hop in more easily than unpacking event.d tarballs.

    I think Hardy has "solidified" enough that changes from now to its release will likely not affect us at the bootup level, so work can begin relatively soon.

    First-Level TODOs:

    (1) Finish implementing all bootup jobs. So far I've only done about 90% of the rcS/rc2 scripts, basically only the ones that are absolutely crucial to a proper bootup. Finishing these should be trivial.

    (2) Remove ugly hacks. On my local event.d's recently I've been trying some very greedy hacks to pump up boottime, including modifying write cache behavior. This hasn't helped too much (1-2s improvement at most) towards a faster bootup but really are quite ugly/unprofessional. Let's remove this.

    (3) Find some maintainable way of remastering a LiveCD with this event.d. So far I'm considering just a script that empties out and replaces event.d on the livefs. A package would be more elegant, but I'm not sure what benefits that'll actually provide if any.

    (4) Bzr branches of everything. I'm already in the process of making bzr branches of my bootup scripts; I just want to make sure there's no blatantly obvious errors or sensitive info before pushing it onto Launchpad.

    Second-Level TODOs:

    (1) Set up some Wiki pages
    (2) Document basic init->upstart conversion process (should be trivial)
    (3) After rough images work, probably a bit of PR such as ubuntu-devel-discuss
    (4) Address how new init scripts are handled. Currently, we are ignorant of their presence. We should either detect+notify users of unhandled init scripts or automatically convert them to Upstart jobs.
    (5) Address undoing these hacks
    (6) Address migrating an existing system to Upstart
    (7) Address debugging and logging of failures. Currently, logging leaves a lot to be desired.
    Golly.

    A fair bit of that sounded like sorcery/black magic to me!

    Is you're setup pretty standard? Could I just import all your scripts and give it a blast. Is that advisable.

    I may need some help implementing some of this stuff. As I've no idea at all about it. I'm keen to learn though.

    As soon as you've sorted the name (I'll put my thinking hat on) and we can meet in IRC (for help) I'll get cracking.

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