System Restore

[LaRoza]

I have a couple thoughts about this program. First, I think that it's a great idea. Back when I used Windows, System Restore was a lifesaver. (Personally, I find Windows easier to hose accidentally than Linux, but maybe that's just me.)

I would like the ability to manually specify files to be included in the restore. Some use cases:

1. On my server, I have Apache's configuration heavily customized, so losing that customization would be more painful than losing fstab. Of course, this is approaching the goals of a backup program.
2. Suppose I want to experiment with some major reconfiguration of my machine that is too extensive to rely on my ability to remember everything I changed. The ability to simply add that stuff to my restore data set would give me the freedom to explore without worrying about losing important configuration if I mess up.

Another thing: Have you considered making a text-based version, as well? I imagine that one common use case would be someone who hosed X. They'd likely end up booting into single-user mode, and wouldn't be able to access a GUI program. But they'd benefit from curses. Presumably, if you try to create a Tkinter window when you're not running X, you'll get an exception. You could then catch that exception and launch the curses interface. (I guess you're dead set on Tkinter. I'm pretty much dead set against it because it's terribly ugly and its menus are broken. I'd much prefer GTK. But, it's your program, not mine.)

Finally, will this program automatically create restore points every so often like the Windows program does?

Windows uses a central registry which is a big binary file that is easy to mess with. Any body interested in creating a piece of malware should exploit the registry.

It would be easy to add a custom file or directory, I will add that soon.

I am ahead of you I wrote it entirely as CLI at first to get the logic down, then, in my way, I had to do a slight redesign for the GUI. I made the GUI (warning: I am not a UI expert and dislike GUI coding), and last night added the ability to use it in CLI for that very reason (no X) and the fact I still like the CLI better. It makes no sense to me to have a GUI for this, but you know how some people are.

I prefer wxWidgets, however, Tkinter comes with standard Python and I am not going to have any requirements beyond what is standard.

The way to use it in the CLI is to have a command line option. Didn't code that part yet...

You could set it to do that, however, I see no reason to. If anyone want regular backups, they can automate it themselves. Linux isn't Windows and doesn't need to have backups of its registry every minute.

Right now, my home directory is filled with restore points (funny named files) because half the time I test it, I create a new one. I don't want to flood another users home directory.

The restore points are going to be stored in a directory (probably hidden) soon. I haven't coded that part yet.

[LaRoza]

IMO Tkinter will work on everyones machine, once you use anything different, then it might no longer work out of the box. Of course I may be completely wrong as I am new to python and programming in general.
I do however think it's a good idea for it to default to a text based version if tkinter can't start due to problems with x.
As far as looks are concerned I don't think that will concern anyone using it as most likely they will be thinking about a hosed system and wanting it back.

That is why I chose it.

It has a CLI version, that can be started on the command line.

It looks "ok", and is using the EasyGUI module. It isn't good looking, but I am, and that is what is important.

[psychok7]

any ideia when ur super program will be ready?? i think its one of the most important features ubuntu should have, even by default. please let us know when youll get it done, the name, and the site were we can get it. oh one question. will this be the first attempt anyone has ever made for system restore on ubuntu?

[pmasiar]

Besides, intentionally borking the system with carefully designed code can do it in a way which is recoverable, while manually doing so might leave your system in an unpredictable state.

I am not sure why you are afraid of manual borking. You know which files were backed up, right? You can even see where they are copied, right? And I hope that directory structure and filenames are same as in original system, just root directory has funny name, right?

So start up your trusted mc, find the files, and bork some file. Reboot to see system borked. Then try restore backup: if system is not unborked, unbork the file you borked manually using mc again.

Why you need to automate the "creative" part: which file to bork, and how?

[pmasiar]

It looks "ok", and is using the EasyGUI module. It isn't good looking, but I am, and that is what is important.

Most important thing in development is to have your priorities right, and you obviously do.

[popch]

I am not sure why you are afraid of manual borking. You know which files were backed up, right? You can even see where they are copied, right? And I hope that directory structure and filenames are same as in original system, just root directory has funny name, right?

So start up your trusted mc, find the files, and bork some file. Reboot to see system borked. Then try restore backup: if system is not unborked, unbork the file you borked manually using mc again.

Why you need to automate the "creative" part: which file to bork, and how?

I suggested this because LaRoza was (still is?) looking for people who can test his program.

Under that condition, I feel that it would be safer for the would-be testers if the program included a sort of testing suite which included the 'borking' as well. I also feel that not all would-be testers would be savvy enough to take sensible measures before testing. I can kind of imagine the dialog between LaRoza and someone who thought that the restorer could work miracles and then found out that it could not.

[sayakb]

LaRoza

Sorry, couldn't read all the posts in this thread.. Just posting what I screw up mostly..
1. I often install some or the other "wrong package" which gifts me a "broken cache" situation.. All installed packages will be restored with your program.
2. Graphics.. as you already mentioned.. I screw the X server or my desktop composite mgr..
3. GRUB.. as you said.
4. And all system settings but not files.

It would be a charm if accidentally, some system files are lost and they could be revived by your program.

If my points are redundant and they were already discussed before, please ignore.

[pmasiar]

My main focus is on new users:
* I just tried to install <weird package> and now everything looks funny
* I tried editing my fstab (what is it anyway?) and now I can't see my Windows partition
* I tried a new video card, and I don't like it, and when I removed it, everything looks big

Because I know you are smart hacker without formal education, let me point out for you that you just reinvented http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case - a way to gather specification and describe parameters of solution. Msserver mentioned other interesting usecases, like borked X and no GUI, noTkinter.

What you want to do is to get a wiki and flesh out usecases with enough details (and use human names for them) so you can better imagine expectation and skill level of each user, so you will develop not a script, but application. Formal CompSci education sometimes does make solving problem simpler

So even if you have to reinvent the wheel, it might be hexagon or octagon, and not the usual square

[LaRoza]

I suggested this because LaRoza was (still is?) looking for people who can test his program.

I understand. I am sort of hoping for testers that know what they are doing (and therefore don't need the program) so they can tell if it is technically useful.

Sorry, couldn't read all the posts in this thread.. Just posting what I screw up mostly..
1. I often install some or the other "wrong package" which gifts me a "broken cache" situation.. All installed packages will be restored with your program.

I believe the package manager can fix that, so I am not going to reinvent the wheel, unless it is a file that can be backed up, I am not going to put it in the program (yet anyway)

[LaRoza]

Because I know you are smart hacker without formal education, let me point out for you that you just reinvented http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case - a way to gather specification and describe parameters of solution. Msserver mentioned other interesting usecases, like borked X and no GUI, noTkinter.

What you want to do is to get a wiki and flesh out usecases with enough details (and use human names for them) so you can better imagine expectation and skill level of each user, so you will develop not a script, but application. Formal CompSci education sometimes does make solving problem simpler

So even if you have to reinvent the wheel, it might be hexagon or octagon, and not the usual square

I have no formal education in Computer Science or Programming, I do have a degree (recently graduated) in Criminal Justice.

That said, yes, your advice is very good. If I weren't some person sitting in my room, and looking for a job and ordering weird things from amazon, this is the latest, and was a real programmer, I might make this a real project. If I can finish it to my satisfaction, I will probably make it available with a site/wiki of its own.

I am not going to get anyone's help on it, until I have a working application.